The Chemtrail Myth

What on earth has bird 'flu got to do with it?

Next you'll be claiming Spanish 'flu - which possibly originated in birds - was spread by chemtrails!

Like 9/11 Truth debunkers, the accurate alternative information has not been cited. Why not encourage people to look at the information about chemtrails and THINK FOR THEMSELVES? Here's a good start:

educate-yourself.org...

Try the files and links section of: groups.yahoo.com...

It appears a lot of folks need to get up to speed about chemtrails. Thanks for stimulating a discussion.

reply to post by aayers


I would humbly suggest that educating yourself might possibly involve reading some of the many research papers I've posted links to - not the internet ramblings of those who have no knowledge of atmospheric science

But maybe I'm wrong. And next time my car develops a fault instead of an experienced mechanic I'd be better getting someone who has never seen a carburettor before and has no idea what a crank shaft is to fix it?

Edit:mind you, that said, if you want a weather forecast you could do worse than ask your local antique dealer (well, if you live in my town, anyway)

[edit on 20-4-2008 by Essan]

For comparison sake:

I don’t know if I should laugh out loud about cheese-loving aliens from the moon or be worried about aluminum in the air above. I mean, really, there is already aluminum packaging present below as part of our food and drinks, such as our soda cans.

And y’all know that carbon monoxide poisoning from the tailpipe of our automobiles is possible and almost certainly lead to death. Why then should I believe that anything coming out of these aircrafts and left behind as chemtrails or contrails are any safer?

[edit on 2008-4-20 by pikypiky]

reply to post by pikypiky


No-one is saying they are necessarily safe - and as some of the papers I've linked to shows, there are very real concerns that they could be having a detrimental effect on our climate.

On top of which, the car exhaust analogy is appropriate - jet exhausts are pumping poisons into our atmosphere just as cars are, though the height at which they are emitted does reduce their ground level effect in comparison.

The chemtrail myth, however, diverts attention away for these very real concerns. Sometimes I wonder if there might not be a reason for that?

I think my signiture still has positive proof of chemtrails admitted and found to originate from biological testing...

it may not happen often, but it DID happen... and since it did, then why wouldn't they do it again?

Fact: they will!... we have even less oversight now, and more government sponsored corporate connections to believe it will.

CHECK MY SIG FOR THE FACTS

reply to post by LazarusTheLong


It's not evidence that high level contrails, spreading out into cirrus clouds, or, indeed, anything else visible in the skies, are chemtrails though - and the remains the point.

Great article in Wired concerning weather modification. I think it ties in nicely with some different themes running throughout "chemtrail" vs. "contrail" threads like this.

Again, we are looking at polarizations, when the overall story is likely more complex than just an issue of black and white...so many shades of grey.

What we do know is:

1) Governments have and do create atrocities on societies with no after thought.
So the idea that chemicals are being sprayed would not be surprising, and I sure hope that people can see for themselves that it is a spray when it goes from one horizon to the other...real fluffy, some not, etc. But again, you can say its just contrails....

funny thing about contrails...used to the sceptics would say, "oh, its just contrails...they disappear after the plane flies by." - i.e., not remain from one horizon to the other.

I invite all skeptics of sprayers (for whatever purpose and whatever it is they are spraying) to say why they have backtracked on this. Again, only recently have the nay sayers started sayin..."well these contrails can last a long time at different lattitudes."

I find it quite ironic and hilarious, after so long trying to convince people that spraying stays, but contrails disappear...and what is in the sky "disappears".

Is it disinfo agents? It may be with the back and forth talk.
Does it really matter?
Again I see what I see - if someone wants to call me an "ignorant ape" over this, fine...I will not be persuaded by opinion.

2) as mentioned the governments atrocities, lets not forget that planes can and have the ability to spray. Remember Agent Orange in Vietnam?
Remember the fact that there are crop dusters?

The tech exist - so how do all the skeptics know what we see or dont see without being there? Ah, forgot, they must indeed be God.
Again, a disinfo agent would seem to ignore all the facts and possibilities.
But are they disinfo? No, probably not seeking as they are satisfied with the knowledge they have...which is fine.

I tell you what skeptics...I should photo a crop duster trail and a "contrail", well what you call contrails...you know the long lasting puffs of clouds going on for miles...and send them side by side and see if you can tell me which is which. I bet you couldnt.

3) Weather modification - its a bit more advanced then what some of you are willing to admit or believe...but then again, we have differing view points.

Im not here to convince anyone of anything...all i say is watch the skies...isnt it fascinating that every cloud in my area is created by an airplane...you watch all day and see this happening. I will say this to the skeptics...if you are right, then how amazing indeed it is that these planes can create so many clouds with contrails (those things that not long ago was said to evaporate quickly) - and of course with the clouds comes the rain...

anyway...lots of stuff posted quickly and kind of randomly in here.
For those with a curious mind you will get what you need out of it.

For those who need their mind made up for them, well there are either "chemtrails" or "contrails" take your pick and dont mind the facts beyond that...again the amazing feat that clouds are created from the backs of airplanes. Again, an amazing feat in and of itself I think.

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 20-4-2008 by dAlen]

reply to post by Essan


Although your links were interesting they still prove nothing
you can go on and on about there are more planes flying today
than there were years ago and that is a fact, there are also more
cars, trucks and motorcycles on the roads as well and even on the
best day the exhaust condensation still dissipates rather quickly
the only time you will see a vehicle leave a trail almost as far as
ones eye can see is if it's 1. an oil burner or 2. it has a blown head
gasket or broken water jacket, in either case it is something else being
put into the air oil smoke with the oil burner or water vapor mixed
with oil and antifreeze in the blown head gasket.

When the conditions are just right we have fog but yet the exhaust from
said vehicles still dissipates rather quickly and as the sun warms the
air the fog disappears. But that's not the case with certain streams from
planes that just linger and grow until the nice sunny day becomes clouded
over, this is not something that happened in the 50's 60's 70's or 80's back then
when you saw jets flying the stream would dissipate not continue for miles and
miles and I'm talking about watching one plane, of course there is more air traffic
today but only now can one watch one single plane perform this very interesting task.

Once again you still seem to move over questions asked of you and I'll ask it
again " Can you prove beyond all reasonable doubt that there is no spraying
going on around the world with the exception of crop dusting and weather cloud seeding?


It's not evidence that high level chemtrails, spreading out into cirrus clouds, or, indeed, anything
else visible in the skies, are contrails though - and the the point remains, You still have proven nothing.

Edited for not examining source properly

Oops

[edit on 20/4/2008 by OzWeatherman]

Originally posted by observe50
Hi OZ,

I have much respect for your knowledge with the weather but IMO you are totally WRONG when it comes to chemtrails.

edit to add:

How is it a myth, if you observe it is right before you.

[edit on 19-4-2008 by observe50]

Its not a myth, its just that people dont understand what they are seeing before them. The chemtrail myth is all based on assumption, not scientific data. All sources seem to be from biased web pages. A good exapmle is the black line thingy, I have already posted a link of why it occurs and a photo, yet chemtrailers ignore it rather than trying to disprove it

Here it is again

www.atoptics.co.uk...

Another example is irisation or iridescence which the chemtrailers claim is proof of chemicals. Yet again they have not disporven it

www.atoptics.co.uk...

Originally posted by DOHC
reply to post by Essan

 

Although your links were interesting they still prove nothing
you can go on and on about there are more planes flying today
than there were years ago and that is a fact, there are also more
cars, trucks and motorcycles on the roads as well and even on the
best day the exhaust condensation still dissipates rather quickly
the only time you will see a vehicle leave a trail almost as far as
ones eye can see is if it's 1. an oil burner or 2. it has a blown head
gasket or broken water jacket, in either case it is something else being
put into the air oil smoke with the oil burner or water vapor mixed
with oil and antifreeze in the blown head gasket.

When the conditions are just right we have fog but yet the exhaust from
said vehicles still dissipates rather quickly and as the sun warms the
air the fog disappears. But that's not the case with certain streams from
planes that just linger and grow until the nice sunny day becomes clouded
over, this is not something that happened in the 50's 60's 70's or 80's back then
when you saw jets flying the stream would dissipate not continue for miles and
miles and I'm talking about watching one plane, of course there is more air traffic
today but only now can one watch one single plane perform this very interesting task.

Once again you still seem to move over questions asked of you and I'll ask it
again " Can you prove beyond all reasonable doubt that there is no spraying
going on around the world with the exception of crop dusting and weather cloud seeding?


It's not evidence that high level chemtrails, spreading out into cirrus clouds, or, indeed, anything
else visible in the skies, are contrails though - and the the point remains, You still have proven nothing.

You have got to be kidding

Comparing car exhaust to airplane exhaust and why they should be the same. Do you have any idea what the differences in pressure, air temperature and humidty are from there to upper air.

It is evidence that cirrus spreads into a layer. You still haven't proven to me that cirrostratus does not exist or that you even know anything about high level clouds.

Here's a challenge for the chemtrailers too

A debate against me

Any takers?

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Hate to burst your bubble but

you said
"If they were using aluminium though it would be invisible like the chaff fighter jets use to scramble radar beams. In fact chaff is aluminium pretty much but not in quantity that is harmful to humans. It wouldnt be showing up as a trail either

I replyed with a screen shot from Weather Wonderground their words not mine.

screen save from Weather Wonderground you will see that it states "The long streamers of high reflectivity apparent on Doppler radar across the Bay area are being caused by chaff...small particles released during a military exercise. Please disregard these radar returns. Isolated rain showers will continue across the area through this evening...though not as heavy as what the radar would currently indicate."

You state invisible they state visible you can't have it both ways unless you want to spin it and say it's only visible with radar in which case it would still be visible.

And you still have not proven anything so this thread is moot
had you titled the thread (Contrails what they are and how they are formed ) it would have been respected more.

Originally posted by DOHC
And you still have not proven anything so this thread is moot
had you titled the thread (Contrails what they are and how they are formed ) it would have been respected more.

I dont think a title like that would have generated any replies. The previous thread I posted was about how we forecast for contrails and formation of them.....got 3 flags but 6 replies

Apolgies for the previous post about the radar....I will edit that

reply to post by OzWeatherman


No - You have got to be kidding

Air temperature and humidty don't count as we have the same here on the ground depending on your location
the only thing different would be pressure.

Originally posted by DOHC
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

No - You have got to be kidding

Air temperature and humidty don't count as we have the same here on the ground depending on your location
the only thing different would be pressure.

What I am trying to say is that temperature and humidity combined with pressure at those heights do not behave as they do on the ground. Plus surface observations do not refelct upper air observations as some chemtrailers have implied.

reply to post by OzWeatherman


i was on a navy ship in the combat room. they were spraying above us out on the open sea . these were identified as kc10 tankers, 3 of them.
they were there all day the trails stopped and they left in formation. i guess it was just the right conditions directly above us. by the way , they were out of oceana nas. just another debunked coincidence,right?


[edit on 20-4-2008 by Spectre0o0]

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
All sources seem to be from biased web pages.

And your linked website is made by a guy named Les Crowley.

Who is he to us?

Another thing is I don't like being referred to as a "chemtrailer" I am not a chemtrailer I am a human being who uses the term chemtrail for lack of a better word. Contrail just doesn't work for me with what I see in the sky.

Also the pic of the contrail with the black line you provided appears to be a short non lingering normal contrail. Not the "trails" we are talking about.

Debate you? Many people are doing just that on these many threads often created by you. You bring out your information on weather while many of us describe anomilies we observe in our skies. Hardly a debate, more of a circus is what you and your comrades display here.

Also I noticed more than once you calling people (including myself) delusional and more than once you threaten to turn people into the mods.

This atmosphere you and those that attempt to destroy discussion of this topic should be noticed by the mods for what you are doing to this site.

reply to post by interestedalways


Well report me then....go for it. If I have done anything wrong then the mods will remove this thread. As of yet the only mod reply I got for it was an applause

And yeah I want to debate because not everyone here (including yourself has contributed to the debate). DOHC has proven some good points and responded with some good evidence. But apart from him most chemtrailers have just said "you're wrong the government is spraying chemicals". Thats not evidence

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Here's a challenge for the chemtrailers too

A debate against me

Any takers?

Ohh I like that idea. In fact I already sounded out Vagabond about it a few weeks back, because I want to do the same thing. A definitive Chemtrail debate, maybe even a team thing. We could call witnesses for each side and do this properly in a stuctured manner. I am more than willing to lead "Team No Chemtrails" against "Team Chemtrail" in a great ATS debate, where we go mano-o-mano instead of piecemeal in numerous threads.