The Chemtrail Myth

reply to post by dAlen


The temperature at 30,000 ft is approximately -45 degrees, as can be seen on this chart. This is regardless of ground temperature

A jet engine works by compressing and superheating the air to produce thrust at very high temperatures. The exhaust of the jet is - literally - boiling the air behind it as it passes, pushing the surrounding air past saturation point and causing condensate to form which freezes into ice crystals. Planes generally need to be above 25,000ft to do this BUT weather conditions vary and this height can vary.

The plane you picture looks like an Airbus A320, but it could be a 757 or 767

Your second picture just looks to me like a regular flightpath, with contrails dispersed by wind. Why do you think its anything other than that? In areas of high flight activity its possible that a few jet passes can saturate enough air to cause clouds to form.

So, why do you think its something different?

reply to post by neformore


neformore....we have a simple way to put it, it's the SSBB principle...

as regards a jet engine....'Suck, Squeeze, Burn, Blow'.....

Of course, it's the same principle for any internal combustion engine....

Thanks for linking that graphic, said in a picture what I've been trying to explain!

Maybe, it is, that those used to automobile engines just don't understand the simplicity of a 'rotary' engine....but, internal combustion is internal combustion, n'est pas?

WW

reply to post by Amaterasu


If you want to ignore the changes in fuel make-up, engine design, plane design, aerodynamics, etc. that have occured since you were a nipper, then yeah - why not go the whole hog and attribute these "chemtrails" to aliens or maybe Elvis :-P

Seriously, there's sooo much speculation, seemingly based on (innocent) ignorance, that this thread is getting out of control. As long as people can throw in their own opinions as a basis for discussion, we can't get anywhere. We won't learn anything. Our collective ignorance will still persist.

Until anyone can get decent evidence that a majority of clouds are actually formed by aircraft (and by decent I don't mean "I guess" or "I think", but actual evidence for something, then we can take this discussion further. As it is, we haven't even got past that first step yet.

Oh well!

reply to post by dave420


dave420, I nominate you for an 'applauase'!! by the Mods!

Cogent, clear and concise....the three "C's"!!!

Sorry, have to go, have a flood on the third floor....washing machine disaster....OK, carry on!

WW

Originally posted by weedwhacker

dAlen, not trying to start up a fight....but....I just went to look something up, suggest you may wih to as well.
... most of the Sun's light, and cloud cover is minimal....

WW

no offense taken.
Obviously your not understanding where Im coming from - or the point of the message.
I never said the whole earth was one big cloud. But seeing that you havent even bothered to look at what I post I can see where the misunderstandings happen.

The fact is, as Eckhart Tolle Points out, "truth needs not defense" - just ego.
(or identifying with a story.)

I dont forsee the clouds clearing for communication between you or I any time soon...at the rate things are going...but thats fine... things are as they are - there is no 'problem.'

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by dave420
Until anyone can get decent evidence that a majority of clouds are actually formed by aircraft

Oh well!

go back to the former page - you will find that I linked (twice) to an image I took of the skies of a typical day here in Hungary. (up in the skies.)

But here you go so you dont have to go back a page.


Note:
1) Airplane lines/trails everywhere. (at this point who cares what they are made of...the fact is they are there.)
2) All the clouds you see with the trails were trails themselves.
And the trails you see in the pic ended up merging to look like the clouds in the pic.

(point, everything in the pic was from planes.)
I specifically watched as they laid down (whether contrail or not) the first lines and saw the formation and took the photo in mid progress.

Some may say this is "not clouds". Again, the point is - my sky coverage is full of these lines that indeed look like clouds. Look at the clouds with the trails again in the pic and realize they were trails also.

Again, at the end of the day, what is a cloud? Maybe some are made up of different components...who cares at this point of discussion. The main issue is that they do indeed (once they 'form) look like normal clouds. - which even the meteorologist here say happens. (airplane clouds turning into cirrus clouds, whatnot.)

So not sure what your post is about - this is relatively old news...

Peace

dAlen

reply to post by dAlen


dAlen...I appreciate, greatly, that this site, ATS, is multi-national.

I know, it is in the English language today, and maybe in the distant future Engilish will not be the dominant language.

BUT, HOWEVER, you must understand that at this place and point in time, we are communicating using English... modern English...but we also understand that there can be mis-communications that may cause mis-understandings.

I think, my opinion....this might be a great foundation for much of the controversy that erupts, not only on ATS, but in Society in General.

Just a thought...

WW

Originally posted by weedwhacker

dAlen...I appreciate, greatly, that this site, ATS, is multi-national.

BUT, HOWEVER, you must understand that at this place and point in time, we are communicating using English... modern English...but we also understand that there can be mis-communications that may cause mis-understandings.

I think, my opinion....this might be a great foundation for much of the controversy that erupts, not only on ATS, but in Society in General.

Just a thought...

WW

Not sure Im following.
Im American, so yes English is my native language - despite how I butcher it.

Language plays only a small role in communication glitches, per say - what I have found is that its more the experience/perspectives/ideologies a given culture brings into a new language being learned that causes miscommunication between 2 languages.

The same goes even amongst people of the same nationality.
How were you raised? What was your collective milieu/way of thought, etc?

We have deeply colored perspectives/biases/prejudices until we realize that we all pretty much saying the same thing...but from different angles. Kind of funny once the realization comes about that you were actually saying the same thing but seemed to be opposed.

And other times, indeed there is just plain out a different way of thinking...period.
Again, this comes with the above...social conditioning and ones way of thought.

Im not that smooth with words per-say - but it may be because the real root of the issue in miscommunication is not the words we choose to use, but how we use view them.

We tend to take words and take them for face value having a certain weight of meaning. (of course this changes from family to family, until in a different culture the word take on a whole new meaning and changes.)

I like how E.T. (Eckhart Tolle) says that words are pointers.
When I write its more a general pointing to a 100 different things that, although they seem to loosely connect - connect, non-the-less.

In my view its all holistic. Somehow Im connected to you and everyone else in the universe. Something is common to everything in creation, and this can help drop prejudices when viewed this way.

Sure I can be misunderstood - and in truth I have found that the written word, even in the hands of a poet, can take on a whole different meaning than if you heard the content spoken from the original author. (Tone, inflection, intent, etc.)

Case in point - E.T. (Eckhart Tolle), I read a passage in his book a while back and thought he was being quite rude/sarcastic...heard his audio book and realized I totally misunderstood him. And in my opinion he is a literary genius to be able to so eloquently express the concepts he does. (though I know its not original...different pointers work for different people.)

So words point beyond themselves. Like "the finger pointing to the moon...is not the moon."

Regardless, I accept that there will be times that communication just does not 'happen' for one reason or another between me and someone else. I am quite stubborn myself, so that doesnt always help.

Either way, thanks for your post.

Peace

dAlen

p.s.
I wanted to add that most of the issues is ego being offended that its story is not believed...in regards to how 'heated arguments' on message boards or in life get started. - I have a lot of ego which gets offended.
Ego in and of itself is not bad, its a tool. Its when we take it serious (the game, or roles we play, so to speak) that it gets 'silly'.

[edit on 21-4-2008 by dAlen]

Here is video on spraying in California:


It appears they are spraying for moths...in a city.
(surprised the car pollution hasnt already killed them off.)
Well, the pollution part isnt really that funny.

Seriously though a couple of notes:

1) From what I did see these airplanes sprayed and did not stay (the spray/trails)...wouldnt expect it to - crop duster stuff doesnt stay either. So this is a bit different than what I have been referring to and showing pics of.

2) I dont really see moths as that big of a problem.
Again, I would need to watch the rest of the video to hear the argument...but I am biased, I dont like pesticides, chemicals of any sort. I dont see that there can be a true benefit of anykind (nature wise) with any of this kind of thing.

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 21-4-2008 by dAlen]

Well, debunk this! Finally someone has caught a strange thing spreading chem-trails in our skys.
Click the link and strap yourself in for the amazing photos this person took.
www.carnicom.com...

GOD HELP US!

reply to post by jondular


jondular, I'd be happy to 'debunk' that....

it is a contrail.

Did no one bother to see my link to 'flight aware' [dot] com?

Really, it's not that difficult, go look at this website....you can see the airplanes fly over you, all of the Commercial flights....you just need to go study it for yourselves....stop being so silly!!!

WW

Originally posted by jondular
Well, debunk this! Finally someone has caught a strange thing spreading chem-trails in our skys.
Click the link and strap yourself in for the amazing photos this person took.
www.carnicom.com...

GOD HELP US!

Good find! Pretty recent too I see.

What in the world is that circular object? I one of the pics it seems to make a straight line through the middle of the "whatever" streaming from it.

The accompanying text was also interesting to me. The written accounts seemed sincere and without preconcieved ideas.

Originally posted by dAlen

I would say 99% of my cloud coverage on a daily basis comes form planes - period.

Maybe you could prove this by take photos of the sky from the same location at the same time every day for a month?

I will be very surpised if 9% of your cloud cover is high level cirrus caused by aircraft contrails. Most is likely to be cumulus and stratoculumus. But please prove me wrong.

Have you taken the time to read some of the links I've posted? They may help you understand basic meteorology which in turn may help you understand what you are seeing. If you have problems with this info, I'd appreciate your comments.

I don't see a plane leaving that round skinny hoop. Several shots and no plane in any of them. Here is the main sight with movies and photos.
www.carnicom.com...

reply to post by dAlen


I suppose if there are enough people with a common sense approach on simple observations of their immediate surroundings (i.e. taking pictures of cloud formations and videos of aircrafts spraying, journalizing of weather and climate conditions or daily blogging of general impressions and interpretations, etc.), then we could compile our results, compare notes with each other and come up with some sort of rational explanation of these aerial phenomenon. We could learn from each other this way, really.

For example, I could start out by saying there are currently none of these visible cloud trails sticking in the skies, which is crispy blue in color with no brown mucky haze hovering over the horizon in the distance hillsides. Earlier this morning, I did observe some fluffy clouds in a south direction from our home and one double cloud trail left behind by a very high altitude aircraft the size of a pinhead. The weather overall feels like a cold but comfortable 57 degrees with a slight chilly breeze blowing in from a general north western direction.

Sounds like a good idea, ‘dAlen’.

DOES EVERYONE HEAR AT ATS WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT!!!!!!!!!!!
I feel sorry for you all, but we are ALL under attack.

chemtrails in Bakersfield California

I would personally suggest everyone gets a basic book about clouds and reads it first .... but I accept that it may be too complicated for some and anyway, every book is part of the global conspiracy against you so it's all lies anyway ....

If you believe in chemtrails, can you also tell the difference between cirrostratus, cirrocumulus and altostratus?

If not, you are deluding yourselves and wasting our time

Meanwhile, persistent contrails will spread and spread and you lot don't give a damn - 'cos it's always easier to blame some imaginary organisation than accept responsibility for your own actions.

Well, if you lay in bed at night sweating about chemtrails then you deserve it.

Your mess - not mine.

reply to post by LORDMETAL


Actually, there are some of us who are not agents of the government. I did see that your YouTube video does show lots of cloud trails in your neighborhood. Here is a photo showing some cloud trails directly over my home. I cannot explain why these flyboys would 'target' my surroundings with these aerial phenom.

Originally posted by LORDMETAL
DOES EVERYONE HEAR AT ATS WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT!!!!!!!!!!!

Some of us are trying to save the planet .... well, make it a better place for humans to live, anyway.

Question is: why are some people so determined to encourage air flight and increase contrails? Why do they want to con you into thinking your own mess is caused by someone else? What is their motive? How evil are they?

Those who spread the chemtrail hoax make the illuminati and reptilians look quite benevolent ......

reply to post by pikypiky


Looks like they've got you "triangulated" I would pack up and move

I know no one wants to hear this again, but it's really nothing to worry about. I don't think Essan's theory that they are harming climate is necessarily true (though certainly they are polluting), but it seems a much more valid fear than chemtrails. Just my two cents...