Girl died as parents prayed instead of seeking help

reply to post by 27jd

Very well, if your intolerance is admitted, there is no need for me to point it out, agreed.

You should understand, however, that once you have admitted the fact that you 'detest' any sort of religious viewpoint to the level of admitted intolerance, you are no longer debating; you are then arguing. The difference is fine, but vital.

I came here to debate. You came to argue. Very well, I see no law or regulation being broken. You have the right to your opinion. May you find whatever it is that is missing in your life, and may it quell the fires of hatred within before they burn you beyond repair.

TheRedneck

reply to post by 27jd



Then where should our rules and laws come from? You said not from man. So from where?

Originally posted by Christian Voice
The Bible has instructions. If someone doesn't follow it correctly it's not Christianity's fault nor is it God's.

The bible was written by MEN not "god", just like tylenol bottles. You are following ancient men's instructions, and if "god" were a concious being, I'm sure he would be quite put out that ALOT of people ignore their conscience, the way "god" really tries to speak to us, and listen to a book. Those parent's conscience should have told them they need to save their daughters life, which would have been EASY to do. Instead they let her suffer and die. That's the reason I detest the bible, it's a book of lies, IMO.

reply to post by Christian Voice


Our conscience. Rules should be created, not based on ancient books with NO relevance to today's society, but based on whether your actions are going to harm an individual OTHER than yourself. The parents of this poor girl broke that rule, and allowed their child to die.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
May you find whatever it is that is missing in your life, and may it quell the fires of hatred within before they burn you beyond repair.

Nothing is missing in my life, I have a wonderful family, two beautiful children that I will protect with my own life until I die. If ever I became deranged enough to allow one of them to die because I'm delusional, I hope in advance they are taken from me before I fail them and they lose their precious little lives. Hate is a natural emotion, just as natural as love. Without hate, love would have little value, since our existence is based on balance. I hate passionately, and I love passionately. My hatred fire burns for those who will cause the downfall of our existence because they need to force their beliefs on others, which has caused countless wars and death throughout our history. I have hatred for those who bring harm to children. Yes, I hate. And I love. Balance....

We do have laws that protect children. It is illegal for me to kill my son for disobeying me. It is illegal for me to lock my daughter in a closet for 6 months and feed her stale bread and water.

It is also illegal to cause the death of another human being through negligence.

These parents were negligent.

Their actions caused the death of their child just as sure as if they given heroin to a 2 year old.

If the child had died from any other reason of neglect other than something involving prayer and therefore invoking some sort of blanket of "Oh well, that's okay then, it was their beliefs!", then you would all be screaming for their heads.

Negligent.

Funny how we even have a crime, "Negligent Homicide".

So you either believe that this child had her own rights, and that her guardians, by attending to their own beliefs, which killed her, are guilty of negligence, or you believe that parents are allowed to harm their children if it suits their beliefs.

You can't have one or the other.

Originally posted by Jadette
You can't have one or the other.

Apparently, there are many who think they can. Some have defended the actions (inactions rather) of the parents saying they had good intentions in their minds. Reminds me of a story of a father many years back here in AZ, who was up for who knows how long on crystal meth, and thought his kids were possessed by demons, so he cut their heads off and burned the remains in his vehicle. He was just trying to save them though, so he had "good" intentions. Delusional on drugs, or delusional on religion, same thing in my book.

I remember in my comic book days as a child who read all I could about superheroes and villians. I thought it was all real and that the cape on supermans suit is what made him fly. So I made me a cape and tried it out. I climbed on the roof top of our house and jumped off just knowing I was gonna take off like superman did. I found out the hard way that it wasn't reality and I broke my leg and wrist. I also hit my nose hard on the ground and blood was everywhere. My mother told me if I ever try something like that again that I wouldn't have to worry about the ground hitting my face. Religion is phychosis and people need to start living in reality. I read the comic books just like a read the bible. Both are fictional books.

Religion is phychosis and people need to start living in reality. I read the comic books just like a read the bible. Both are fictional books.

In your opinion religion is psychosis. Opinion only. Saying that the Bible is fictional is an uneducated ignorant statement. You have no proof that the Bible is fictional just a misguided opinion.

Originally posted by Christian Voice
You have no proof that the Bible is fictional just a misguided opinion.

Just curious, do you have proof that it isn't?

reply to post by Christian Voice


Ok, fair enough. I take that back. There is some fact in the bible, but all that magic was just magic. And there are miracles happening today that could of happened in the biblical days. I heard about that guy who was pronounced dead and just before they were gonna take his organs out he came back. He really wasn't dead at all and heard everything that was happening. Could that be what happen to Lazarus? And don't say God has plans for him, but not for that 11 year old child. You know, God could have told those parents to take her to the hospital for treatment. How hard would that have been for God?

Originally posted by Solarskye
I heard about that guy who was pronounced dead and just before they were gonna take his organs out he came back. He really wasn't dead at all and heard everything that was happening.

Why is that a miracle? Do a little research on tetrodotoxin poisoning, perhaps he ate some pufferfish or came into contact with a similar toxin.

reply to post by 27jd


Boy you guys pick away at what everybody says don't you. I said I heard about it and meant that back in biblical days that would have been a miracle. Still this little girl could have lived if her parents would of had faith in the abilities we humans have medically.


[edit on 3/28/2008 by Solarskye]

[edit on 3/28/2008 by Solarskye]

reply to post by Solarskye




Yeah, that's what we do best here, lol. Anyway, sorry if I confused what you were saying, I thought you were saying it was magic, or a miracle that the man was thought to be dead but came back. Some toxins cause the body to slow down so much, it appears dead...that's what the movie Serpent and the Rainbow was based on. And yes, if the parents had just used the brains "god" gave them, the girl would almost certainly be alive and well today. Very sad.

[edit on 28-3-2008 by 27jd]

When this kind of thing happens, it always reminds me of this story.
There was a flood. A man was stranded on his roof top. He prayed for
the Lord to save him from the ragging waters. A row boat came by
and offered him a ride. He said; no thanks, I'm waiting for the Lord to save
me. A helicopter then came. He said the same thing. Finally his house gave way to the waters, and he drowned. In heaven, he asked the Lord,
"why didn't you save me"? The Lord said. I sent a row boat and a helicopter!
Never expect the Lord to do, what you or others can do. That comes
under the admonition. "Do not tempt the Lord your God".

This is not about the bible or organized religion, it's about 2 crazy people letting a sick girl die in her bed rather than take her to the emergency room.


Nothing more, Nothing less.

Originally posted by Solarskye
reply to post by Christian Voice

 

Ok, fair enough. I take that back. There is some fact in the bible, but all that magic was just magic. And there are miracles happening today that could of happened in the biblical days. I heard about that guy who was pronounced dead and just before they were gonna take his organs out he came back. He really wasn't dead at all and heard everything that was happening. Could that be what happen to Lazarus? And don't say God has plans for him, but not for that 11 year old child. You know, God could have told those parents to take her to the hospital for treatment. How hard would that have been for God?

Is it God's plan to save every life in this world, now. Isn't that just saying that this present life is what it is all about? Or that this present life
is the main event?
I think this world now, is nothing more then a side show. People come and go. Appear for a second or a hundred years. It is all the same. " What is your life? Isn't it a vapor, that passeth away." Nothing we do in this world will follow us into eternity. Unless you are a missionary and preach the gospel! It is all vanity. Just like King Solomon said; "all is vanity and vexation of spirit."
Every body wants to save lives. When they should be concerned with saving souls. Only souls are eternal. Every thing else will be forgotten.

Of course the fundamentalist nuts will only report incidents where prayer seemed to have worked, but never incidents such as these...which I assume are far more plentiful simply due to the fact that there's nothing responding to that prayer. Anyway, I agree that the parents are guilty of negligent homicide and should have their other children taken away.

And it is another example of why State and Church should be separate. Superstition and brainwashing and a lack of education over the generations. It's a shame.

Originally posted by laiguana
Of course the fundamentalist nuts will only report incidents where prayer seemed to have worked, but never incidents such as these...which I assume are far more plentiful simply due to the fact that there's nothing responding to that prayer. Anyway, I agree that the parents are guilty of negligent homicide and should have their other children taken away.

There have been several scientific studies on prayer. It has been found that it does have an effect. Exactly why some people are saved to have extended lives, here and now; while others die. Is somewhat of a mystery.
We must take it by faith and trust. That it all serves a grander scheme,
then we are capable of comprehending!
Even fundamentalist nuts get cancer and every other disease. They
all don't get healed. They are all dying. So your statement is just not true!