The truth about "Thief in the night" and the Great Harlot of Revelation

reply to post by Locoman8



I think you forgot to mention 2 Peter 3:10

"But the day of the LORD will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with ferverent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

The actual day of the LORD will be a surprise but the era of its coming will be identifiable. Jesus said that the blossoms of the spring give a sign that summer is coming. There will be signs that the LORD's day is near.

By the way most churches, if not all, don't understand the meaning of Peter's words here. This passage is locked up and secret until God's due season.

This event is to occur immediately after the tribulation.

Look at every translation of 2 Peter 3:10 and see what words change in the various texts.

Heaven= God's throne
Heaven= Outerspace
Heaven= Earth's Troposphere


[edit on 3-4-2008 by lostinspace]

reply to post by lostinspace


If you read what Jesus said, himself, you would see that he said that he would come like a thief in the night for those who are asleep, drunk, and blinded by corruption. Those of us who are awake and sober will know the time, just not the hour of his return. I believe most sober christians will be able to know the day but not what time of day he comes. I may be wrong but even knowing the vicinity of the time he returns is enough for me. There is no rapture before the tribulation and evangelics need to realize that part. We will all have to suffer the tribulation. Those of us who repent will likely survive the trib unless persecuted by the anti-christ. Those persecuted in the name of the Lord are those who are raptured....AFTER the tribulation.

I would say :
Yes, we will know the vicinity of Jesus Christ's return.

I think there will come a point in time, near the very end, we will be able to narrow it down to the month...the bible says the hour is unknown, but it does not say the month can not be known, Christ did say (to paraphrase) you will know it is very near, and at the door. But to pinpoint the day and hour is another matter.

We know the last trumpet is blown sometime after the 2 witnesses are killed.

11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15And the seventh angel sounded
; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


(The third woe = the blowing of the seventh trumpet)

The two witnesses are killed, and 3 days later are resurrected, the "third woe" comes very soon after this event, the "third woe" is when the seventh and last trumpet is blown, this announces the return of Christ.
I use the phrase "announce" because I believe it's like being in a building, and somebody is on 5th floor, and is "watching" and looking out the window, and sees a car pull up, and announces that that person is "coming", but he is not yet in the same room as them yet. So I think this may be true for Christ....We'll see Him coming...but this is not the same as His actual arrival.

The reason I think it will be this way, is if you examine the greek text, that deals with Christ's Second Coming, it is exactly that...the greek text talks about His Coming...NOT his Arrival.

I'll discuss that more later...when I have time.

[edit on 7-4-2008 by SirPaulMuaddib_2]

[edit on 7-4-2008 by SirPaulMuaddib_2]

AH! So there it is, to be "awake" is to be "awake to righteousness" and righteousness is related to the 10 commandments,

"If WE OBSERVE to do all these commandments" THEN we are righteouss!

So being awake means : WE ARE COMMANDMENT KEEPERS (including 7th day Sabbath)!!!!!

So being awake means keeping "the commandments." You are aware, I would hope, that "all these commandments" mentioned in the old testament is the entire Mosaic Law, including but by no means limited to, the ten commandments. There are exactly 613 commandments given, all of which are equally important under the old covenant, meaning that if you're guilty of breaking any, then you're guilty of breaking them all.

Now, anyone who has studied the texts in the original languages (and not just read what someone else has said about them) will understand that in the old testament, "These commandments" is referring to the Mosaic Law. The new testament, however uses two different words to differentiate between the Mosaic Law, and the things which Christ specifically commanded from his own mouth (Greek word "entole"). Unfortunately both words are translated into "commandments," whereas Christ's meaning in phrases such as "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." is better understood as "If you love me, you will do those things which I have taught you to do." Paul even differentiates between the Mosaic Law and "The Law of Christ," and flatly declares he's not under the Mosaic Law. See 1 Corinthians 9:19-23

The sabbath commandment was not ever any more important than any of the other 613 commandments. To assume that someone is more worthy, or righteous because they "keep the sabbath," is an exercise in self-righteousness, which is condemned.

reply to post by BlaznRob


You should know that the 10 commandments are the most important. The other laws of Moses were not considered commandments. They were ordinances or guidelines. Jesus used the mosaic commandments in his teachings. He just taught the apostles that there is more meaning to it as He himself would be sacrificed in order to fulfill the passover.

I just needed to add a little to my argument. I have recently learned that the 27 nations making up the EU are not all bound by the EU. There are exactly 10 permanent European states making up the EU's political and economic blueprint. The other 17 are just observer states like Great Britain who still uses the Pound as currency. These 10 permanent EU states may very well be the 10 kings that have no kingdom but share an hour as King. The nations making up the EU share leadership in 6 month grids. THey are shareing power as rulers of the EU until a president is elected. Presidential elections take place around the time of our own general elections. That is a scary thought. THere's proof for the 10 kingdoms that share power with the beast. On a side note, the birth of the EU started with the signing of the "Treaties of Rome" which further fuels my case as the Roman Empire being the Political Beast of Revelation and the Roman Catholic Church being the Harlot Woman riding the beast.

This is the very first thread I started and It's one of my most starred and flagged. I'm proud to have made a thread many were interested in. I would like to see if anyone else has anything to add to it. I also invite you all to visit my newest thread called "The 7 Revivals of the Roman Empire... The Middle Ages, Nazisim, and the EU." It is in bts "faith and spirituality" message boards. It's a long read but explains what each of the 7 revivals of the Roman Empire were and ends with the European Union and many things pointing it to the harlot woman and beast of Revelation 17. I urge you all to visit it and also bring some life back into this thread too. Visit the new thread here....

www.belowtopsecret.com...

reply to post by 12.21.12


Just been reading the thread.
The WEU may have 27 member states but only TEN of these are permanent member states and these 10 are also the only ones with full voting rights. From WIKI :

Participating states
The Western European Union has 10 member countries, 6 associate member countries, 5 observer countries and 7 associate partner countries. On 14 June 2001, Solana stated that there was no foreseeable reason to change the status of the non member countries in the organisation.

Member countries: (modified Brussels Treaty - 1954)
All of them being members of both NATO and the European Union. These are the only nations that have full voting rights.

United Kingdom
France
Germany
Italy
Belgium
Netherlands
Luxembourg
Portugal (27 March 1990)
Spain (27 March 1990)
Greece (1995)
Observer countries: (Rome - 1992)

Observer countries are members of the European Union, but not of NATO. 1

Denmark 1
Ireland
Austria (1995)
Sweden (1995)
Finland (1995)
1 Denmark is an exception, being member of both. It has an opt-out from the Treaty of Maastricht (1992), so that it does not participate in the ESDP of the European Union. Thus in respect to the WEU it would have been more appropriate for it to be regarded as non-EU NATO member state (WEU associate status).

________________________________________
The WEU flag has TEN stars emblazone on it and according to this site the building is modelled after the tower of Babel.......? From their site...: "The EU today is made up of over 25 countries, however the ten nations of the Western European Alliance have a separate status as full members, while those nations who joined subsequent to the original 10 have only associate membership, or observer status. This 10 nation military wing of the EU may very well fulfill the prophecy of the beast with 10 horns from Daniel 7:7-8 and Revelations 13:1"
_________________________________________

QUOTE from another site "The EU member countries are planning to enforce the Treaty of Lisbon or the EU constitution in the year 2009. It will no longer be approved by the people of the member-states of EU as we have stated before. The members of the Parliament of each of the member-states will give the approval for the Reform Constitution as it was planned so there is no way for anyone to stop the Constitution of the European Union from being enforced."

From this Lisbon Treaty would there not be a bigger power again, essentially dominating all 10 member states and other states, a kind of EU "Big Brother"....this would then correlate with the little horn who comes out of the other horns and the guy they put in charge of all this would be the one to watch ? Solano is apparantly planning to retire but there is anticipation of him going for this new , bigger position....he would then be the one who "is, was not, and is (again)" ????

I'm not Christian by the way people...just tossing theories around .....

Whoever the beast is, it is a worldwide power as revelations speaks of it having authority over the entire world....the USA is a superpower, yes, but countries around the world do not answer to America in the same way they do to the WEU so America doesn't really fit the bill....?

PS)
In 1999, Javier Solana became the High Representative for the EU’s foreign and security policy, and through recommendation 666, he was given emergency powers over the military wing of the EU in 2000.

666........

PPS) There is also some pretty sound basis for thinking the Beast with 10 horns is actually the UN rather than the EU....out of the two, I'd think the UN fits the criteria better and is THE most powerful organization on Earth.

check out this article

And from this site : Revelation 13:17 AND THAT NO MAN MIGHT BUY OR SELL, SAVE HE THAT HAD THE MARK, OR THE NAME OF THE BEAST, OR THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME…AND HIS NUMBER IS SIX HUNDRED THREESCORE AND SIX (666).
The UN Resolution Number 670 was the screw that made the UN Resolution Number 661 (TOTAL EMBARGO AGAINST IRAQ AND KUWAIT) of August 6, 1990 airtight. (Did anyone ever wonder that August 6 is the same date that USA dropped the ATOMIC BOMB at Hiroshima?) The United Nations however feared that because of the total embargo, the aliens still trapped in Iraq and Kuwait may starve to death. This was how the UNITED NATIONS RESOLUTION NUMBER 666 came into being. The resolution was an exemption to the embargo. It allowed only UN representatives wearing the UN insignias to buy and sell food and medicines that bears the UN seals exactly as foretold in the Bible.

What a puzzle it all is !

[edit on 2/8/09 by cosmicpixie]

[edit on 2/8/09 by cosmicpixie]

reply to post by cosmicpixie


Interesting stuff you present. My friend, Bluejay believes the beast to be the UN. I see the EU as the beast due to the fact it is the 7th revival of the Roman Empire. Good posts though and thanks for contributing.

reply to post by Locoman8

Interesting threat I think I need a hebrew bible and a deeper understanding of etymology. I just had something quick to add,

That is a pretty long conversation about 2012, England planning to make itself the new jersualem, and Prince Harry being the potential anti-christ. In reading the verses mentioned above, do you think its possible that since the new ruler of the EU will not be someone in the spotlight that prince harry may potentially be the king spoken of?

[edit on 2-8-2009 by acmpnsfal]

reply to post by Locoman8


Rev 17: 12-13:

And the 10 horns are 10 kings.......they are to receive authority as kings TOGETHER WITH THE BEAST...these are of one mind and give over their power and authority to the beast

In Revelation 13 the beast is described as an entity COMPRISING of 7 heads plus 10 horns with 10 diadems on those horns. The Beast itself is not the 10 horns and 7 heads, the 10 horns and 7 heads are part OF the beast. So the beast is a bigger power again than the horns and heads alone...

Rev 13:7:

" And authority was given it (the beast) over every tribe and people and tongue and nation, and all who dwell on the earth will worship it...."

Clearly the EU/WEU does not have this kind of global authority as they related only to Europe so the EU is not the beast itself but part OF the Beast. The only entity on earth with global authority is the UN. The EU and it being the revived Roman empire would still fit into the equation but the EU is not a global authority and scripture clearly states the beast is a globally dominating entity.

The bit I don't get is that Revelations describes the 4th beast more fully than Daniel....John mentions 10 horns with 10 diadems and 7 heads where Daniel mentions 10 horns with 10 kings and a little horn who emerges from the 10 kings and subdues 3 of the 10. Where is "the little horn" in Revelations....? If Daniel described 10 horns plus the little one then we take away THREE there should be EIGHT . Or is this still yet to happen ? I can't quite see the EU acquiring an 11th member state that then somehow bumps 3 others out of the club....unless the Lisbon Treaty becomes the 11th and gets rid of 3 current members but is that really likely?!

There appear to be differences which I can't quite work out, yet at the same time both Daniel and John point to this being the 4th and final kingdom on Earth and both of them connect the 4th beast to the 42 months/second half of the 7 year tribulation...

Aah, my poor poor brain

reply to post by cosmicpixie


Nice work cosmicpixie. There are also some other related things to 666. Have you looked at the Social Security Act section 666? Also there is a bioweapon 666. Just a few thoughts to ponder over.

www.biopharma.com...

Now couple the financial crisis with swine flu and we have this healthcare bill slipping through congress and the FDA regulation already went through the senate. We are in for some interesting times. Plus I believe that they are now rebuilding Solomons Temple, so the 'Bible Prophecies' are now coming to fruition. Also Revelations states somewhere states that the ten hated the beast and later turned against the beast.

Originally posted by stumason
Just a few points to make for you bible thumpers to ponder over:

1. There are 27 Nations in the EU, not 10
   
2. The EU does not have a Capital. Brussels is merely one of the two administrative centres, the other being Strasbourg, in France.
   
3. The City of Byzantium (Constantinople/Istanbul) is founded on Seven hills, just like Rome
   
4. Byzantium was the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire and lasted for 1000 years after the fall of Rome, until taken over by the Islamic Caliphate of the Ottomans
   

Keep going, I'm sure you can tie it all up somehow.....

Welllll.........I'm not sure if this ties it all together, but in 1974, the Club of Rome wrote a report, called "Mankind at the Turning Point" in which the mention and suggestion that the world be divided into 10 regions, as noted below, and see map showing the regions ............

“Such an approach must start from and preserve the world's regional diversity. Paths of development, region-specific rather than based on narrow national interests, must be designed to lead to a sustainable balance between the interdependent world-regions and to global harmony - that is, to mankind's growth as an "organic entity" from its present barely embryonic state."

"An analysis of problems and crises as reported indicate that (1) a "horizontal" restructuring of the world system is needed, i.e., a change in relationships among nations and regions and (2) as far as the "vertical" structure of the world system is concerned, drastic changes in the norm stratum - that is, in the value system and the goals of man - are necessary in order to solve energy, food, and other crises, i.e., social changes and changes in individual attitudes are needed if the transition to organic growth is to take place."

"Cooperation by definition connotes interdependence. Increasing interdependence between nations and regions must then translate as a decrease in independence. Nations cannot be interdependent without each of them giving up some of, or at least acknowledging limits to, its own independence."

"Now is the time to draw up a master plan for organic sustainable growth and world development based on global allocation of all finite resources and a new global economic system. Ten or twenty years from today it will probably be too late..."


So, the Club of Rome states that a ‘master plan’ must be developed to guide mankind through the plethora of ‘crises’ embodied in the World Problematique. It suggests that the world system must be restructured drastically into a ‘horizontal system’ which would involve interdependent ‘world regions’. An extract from their report describing these regions in detail can be found here. In fact the report even includes a map illustrating how the world can be divided into 10 regions:

Article and Map here

reply to post by cosmicpixie

The way I read the Bible, and also confirmed by some studies I have read on the subject, the "Little Horn" is also "The Beast"...

Edited to add........The Beast will probably be a world leader that is the "top dog" such as the EU President, who will be voted upon in around the same time frame as the next presidential election.

From some articles I have read, Prince Charles wanted to be tapped for that position, don't know how far he has gotten with that, BUT, the meaning of the name Charles, is *free man*, he is a *prince*, his coat of arms is full of symbols that mirror the *beasts* described in the Bible as attached to The Beast. Look up "Antichrist and A Cup of Tea", a book written by an author by the name of Tim Cohen, for an interesting theory naming Prince Charles as a very possible candidate for "The Beast".

Also, go herefor a very interesting article about Prince Charles, "Savior of the World" and a picture of a statue dedicated to him in Brazil. The page also has a link to the Tim Cohen article.

Very eye-opening.


edited to fix link





[edit on 2-8-2009 by sezsue]


[edit on 2-8-2009 by sezsue]

[edit on 3-8-2009 by sezsue]

reply to post by cosmicpixie


In Daniel the little horn that subdues 3 of the 10 is actually the false messiah... aka: The Pope. This has already happened. When Pagan Rome fell there were 3 attempts to revive it by barbarian foreign forces but all three were unsuccessful. When Justinian became the new king of the Roman Empire (crowned by the pope), this reestablished Roman Empire would be known as the Holy Roman Empire and thus the head wound that healed according to prophecy. Throughout history there have been 6 successive revivals of the Holy Roman Empire and the 7th is the European Union. The 7 heads are 7 revivals. The 10 horns are 10 kings that share power as king (Revelation 17). Interesting how the 10 permanent nation-states of the EU share power in 6 month incriments. Also, the Euro has coins of Europa riding a bull (the harlot riding a beast in Rev. 17?).

reply to post by sezsue


That information IMO is pretty right on. Except there are some misunderstandings that can easily be made. Both Charles and the boys make excellent candidates, but remember that this is the Morevingian Line.

Merovingian Bloodline -- Researchers into the New World Order Plan have recognized that the global plan to produce Antichrist runs through a bloodline in Europe [Germany and France] under a Merovingian descendent, specifically through a Fifth-Century King, by the name of Merovee. He worshipped the bear in the form of the Roman Diana, who is also known as the Greek Artemis, the "virgin-mother goddess" of the wooded hunt and the moon, usually associated with the Unicorn. Merovee's son, Childeric I, practiced witchcraft, while his grandson, Clovis I, converted to Roman Catholicism, thus tying in both sides in this grand Illuminist plan -- the Illuminati and Roman Catholicism.

It is not a coincidence that both this lineage and the teachings of freemasonry date back to David, King Solomon and Hiram Abiff.

Often in the Bible satan is referred to as the morning star, which is also called venus. Although in Revelations Jesus is referred to as the morning star?





[edit on 3-8-2009 by 12.21.12]

reply to post by Locoman8


Well okay, but given propechy seems to repeat itself, who is the little horn coming out of the 10 in our day and age...?

I was thinking could it be the same as the "other beast" who comes out of the main beast in Revelations...
Rev 13: 11 onwards...


"Then I saw another beast which rose out of the Earth;it had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast...." etc


Many think this "other beast" in Revelations is America. As it is a beast, it is some sort of empire rather than a single person . It's horns that are lamb like suggest two things : (1) It is a relatively young empire and (2) It is a Christian nation. We all know America is the world's foremost superpower . As for there being TWO horns it could represent the 2 political ideologies, Democracy versus Republicism or even suggest that the leader of this superpower runs for two terms .

This could well tally with the "little horn who emerged from the 10 horns" in Daniel and who "put down three kings"....America "subdued" England, France and Spain in the course of some war. I can't find the link right now but will try to soon.

reply to post by cosmicpixie
The little horn is the Pope. The Pope is the counterfeit Christ, thus the description of the 'two horns like a lamb'. This is the two pointed headware worn by the Pope (cant remember the proper name ).
The Pope will verify the Antichrist as the true God, and require all people to worship him as such.

It is interesting to note that it has been reported that an item on the last Bildeberger meeting agenda a few weeks ago dealt with the long standing desire to divide the globe up into ten trading blocks.

Rev. 17:18
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Jeremiah 51:25

Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

Psalm 2:1-4

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? [2] The kings of theearth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, andagainst his anointed, saying, [3] Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away theircords from us. [4] He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have themin derision.

Rev. 18:17-19

For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all thecompany in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, [18] Andcried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this greatcity! [19] And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying,Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reasonof her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

I don't agree that its Rome or the Catholic church.

I would say America is Babylon and the UN is the woman. Correct me if I'm wrong but even Vatican City sends a representative to the UN. The UN sets in New York. Babylon is a great seaport city. So is New York City. Yet Rome is inland and not a seaport city.

The woman sets on the great city. You use the 7 hills to relate it to Rome and the Catholic church. Yet many cities set on 7 hills, Moscow, London and New York city sets on seven rises or hills. Just as Rome Ga. does also.

However, the term “mountains” can be quite misleading in and of itself. Mountains are used also to represent kingdoms or in this case, could well represent contintents, as this is a global empire, that sets upon all 7 contintents of the world. The Book of Revelation clearly depicts a power that is global, and rules over the entire planet.

The Catholic church does not have this power. If it had that kind of power then why did China okay bibles in the country during the run of the olympics but they had to be taken out after that? Apparently the Catholic church isn't that powerful in China.

The verse from Jeremiah to me considers mountain as a contintent. New York city is called the great city by many. The Un sets in New York. The Global power even the Pope himself called the UN the World Ruling Body.

Now consider this one of the main reasons stated for the English that came to America was to have freedom of religion. Our founding fathers believed in God, trusted in God. America is turning its back on God. We even want to take "In God we trust" off of everything. Our children aren't allowed to even acknowledge the word God in school. Even though Christmas is not the real birthdate of Jesus our government doesn't want to acknowledge him in the holiday because some one might be offended.

The whore sets in Babylon. America is Babylon. The UN is the whore. We are lead to believe that John speaks of the Roman Empire. Yet John was seeing the future. Perhaps its the major wars this country has been in instead of the Roman Empire. John is told the waters you see are people of different cultures and tongues. America the great melting pot of the world would fit. Everyone use to come into America in New York.

Perhaps we are so focused on Rome and the Catholics that we fail to look at ourselves. Trust me we have crucified Christ all over again in the country. Here is a very important verse I believe.

Isaiah 66:4

I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.