US soldiers kill 10-year-old Iraqi girl

reply to post by Mr. Ree


Considering we are talking about frame of mind here, thanks for the compliment.

You're crazy and want to shoot up a mall. I go to the mall because it's safe and I can get stuff I need.

Sounds about right. Get counsiling.

reply to post by jaamaan


If you're going to make assertions, you need to use the correct terminology, or they become meaningless. Carpet bombing means one very specific thing. There is no other meanings. One or two bombs dropped on a target is not carpet bombing.

You are incorrect about the numbers of civilians that were in the city, and that article you posted didn't mention anything with regards to that claim. On the otherhand I'll include more of the article that you conveniently left out.

"Following the assault, according to local politicians and military commanders, Fallujah had gradually become one of the safest and most stable cities in Anbar province.....

The city's police force, disbanded before the offensive last year, has returned to duty and numbers about 1,200, local officials said. A pair of Iraqi army battalions now patrol much of the northern half of the city, together with a single battalion of U.S. Marines. And while turnout in Anbar for Iraq's October constitutional referendum was only about 40 percent, it topped 90 percent in Fallujah, a city of about 250,000.

"One year ago, major combat operations in Fallujah. And in the referendum, 200,000 folks voted in Fallujah," the main U.S. military spokesman in Iraq, Maj. Gen. Rick Lynch said at a news conference this week. "Great improvement."

On a visit to the city this week, the provincial governor, Mamoun Sami Rashid, spent the first half of a 10-minute speech praising the city's progress. "The first thing that came to my mind when I entered Fallujah is the stability," said Rashid, who rarely leaves the violence-plagued provincial capital, Ramadi, and has survived at least seven assassination attempts since taking office on June 1.

"We knew al Qaeda wouldn't leave the city, and it happened. They came back," said Khalid Muhsin, a preacher in a local mosque. "Now they attack in different ways. They kidnap and assassinate people. People in the city are tired of the fighting and want to rest."


I fail to see any mention of these large numbers of civilians in the city during the assault, or large numbers of civilian casualties.

reply to post by jaamaan


You're the one making them out to be honorable freedom fighters defending their homeland. What term should I have used other than hero?
These folks kill men, women, and children indescriminately, in their attempts to intimidate the populace into giving into to their will. You ignore the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis that are joining the police and military to fight them, or the millions of Iraqis that have voted in elections. That's all an inconvenient truth for you, because it has nothing to do with your agenda.

reply to post by jaamaan


45 fatalities is en masse? I'm not being trite here, but if you look at the casualty figures from Tokyo or Dresden, that would be killing en masse.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Hey and I say don't whine about civilians being killed because hey its war! Want to fight Americans, join the military, thats what its for. Dress like civilians, might as well say all the civilians are fair game since they pretty much look the same.

I wonder if the Fallujans have ever been given a chance to re-inter the remains of the people who were buried in the schoolyards and the soccer field..

[edit on 3/13/08 by LLoyd45]

[edit on 3/13/08 by LLoyd45]

Originally posted by BlueRaja
reply to post by reubendarious

 

So by that measure, insurgents would be considered innocent people that aren't valid targets either then wouldn't it?

So you go to a bar and pick a fight and you spect to leave the place without getting hit?? We are talking about the biggest military power in the world vs. children and women. What are the rules of engagement here? Exactly there's no rules apparently. At least not in our side.

Might I humbly suggest that we all need to approach media reports with an open mind as to the accuracy of the reporting. Sources involved in the lion's share of the journalism in Iraq are hardly free of editorial control. I would believe a blog from Iraq more than an Al-Jazira (spelling?) report or a FOX news editorial.

I'm not saying that either debater is wrong, just possibly over-zealous about their news sources.

I can state from personal experience however that while no one in the US armed forces has ever set out to kill innocent civilians en masse, that doesn't mean they weren't given a mission (unbeknownst to them) to do so.

We weren't bombing Cambodia remember? We were 'rescuing' students from Granada, remember?

War weary soldiers can be very callous, but it not due to their nature - it's due to the fact that their commanders give orders with complete disregard for the human condition, and the needs of people to behave humanely. Most of these troops are very young, and are subject to propaganda of a different order.

Originally posted by Harlequin
reply to post by BlueRaja

 

i call you out as a blatant baiter and a liar - the international red cross went onto fullajah directly after the US used WP and NAPALM in blanket bombing attacks and witnessed more than 10,000 people there.

you are a liar.

i caught you out before about fullajah and will do every single time.

You can call me whatever you want, but that doesn't change the fact that you'll still be wrong on this. You folks are like a broken record, with your talking point mantras. White Phosphorus was not used indescriminately, or targeted on civilians. It was used for screening missions, and to drive insurgents out of their fighting positions where they could be targeted with high explosive munitions. They did not use napalm in Fallujah at any time.

Originally posted by reubendarious

So you go to a bar and pick a fight and you spect to leave the place without getting hit?? We are talking about the biggest military power in the world vs. children and women. What are the rules of engagement here? Exactly there's no rules apparently. At least not in our side.

Firstly, that's a terrible analogy to the situation in Iraq, as the insurgents are not fighting a war of self defense for Iraq, so they wouldn't be bar patrons minding their own business.

As for rules of engagement, I'll post this link again.

www.polisci.umn.edu...


When insurgents use women and children in hostile ways, it is unfortunate, but they are no longer innocent bystanders in these situations.

I am struck by the photo of a dead child, again; and saddened to no end.

I must pause for a while on this horrific tragedy (crime)...and say my own
prayers for her dear little soul.

My family buried the charred remains of our beautiful, young cousin,
Bridget; abducted and murdered, and burned beyond recognition last
year. It is no little thing, when a child dies from violence.

Just glad to see some rather heated debate going on, as this topic should
generate outrage amongst us. If it didn't, we would be worthless.

I'm glad to be alive; but still ashamed of my own gov., not so much our
brave troops. Hope to God it was an aweful accident.

Originally posted by Maxmars

War weary soldiers can be very callous, but it not due to their nature - it's due to the fact that their commanders give orders with complete disregard for the human condition, and the needs of people to behave humanely. Most of these troops are very young, and are subject to propaganda of a different order.

Please refrain from condescion of soldiers being brainwashed, and not knowing the realities that they face. I suggest you read the link I've posted for other's benefit, showing the care taken by US forces.

www.polisci.umn.edu...

reply to post by BlueRaja


you can keep spouting the same crap but the VIDEO evidence proved you wrong , time and again - deny it all you want , but shake and bake missions with random and widespread bombing of WP in breach of protocol III of the CCWC happened.

so keep believeing what you want but the TRUTH is out there and everyone knows it. the USA used a WMD in fullajah.

reply to post by Harlequin


what WMD's were those exactly?

reply to post by Harlequin


If you're gonna throw Conventions around, you might want to read them first.

www.globalsecurity.org...

"It is further prohibited to make any military objective located within a concentration of civilians the object of attack by means of incendiary weapons other than air-delivered incendiary weapons, except when such military objective is clearly separated from the concentration of civilians and all feasible precautions are taken with a view to limiting the incendiary effects to the military objective and to avoiding, and in any event to minimizing, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects. "



news.bbc.co.uk...
It's [WP] not forbidden if it is used within the context of a military application which does not require or does not intend to use the toxic properties

Peter Kaiser

en.wikipedia.org...
"White phosphorus weapons are controversial today because of their potential use against civilians. While the Chemical Weapons Convention does not designate WP as a chemical weapon, various unofficial groups consider it to be one."

Originally posted by LLoyd45
reply to post by Jaytan

 

I'm sorry Jaytan, I don't mean to be argumentative, but I don't consider the rape, torture, and murder of innocent civilians a small thing. It doesn't matter whether they're adults, children, women, or men. A civilian is a not a legitimate target. Just because the truth is ugly, doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed.

So far we have to our credit, Abhu Ghraib, rape gangs, cluster bombings, and the targetting of civilians by our Blackwater mercenaries. Oh, and practically the whole World hates us. So much for winning their hearts and minds.. Maybe the little girl was throwing flowers at her liberators feet rather than signalling an ambush. It makes about as much sense.


[edit on 3/13/08 by LLoyd45]

Compare the few and relatively mild "atrocities" perpetrated by Americans with those done every day by fundamental Muslims and our side looks almost saintly. Of course, if anyone has the right to use such extreme measures it's arguable that it is the weaker side - especially since they're defending their home turf - but I don't see the point in trying to paint the American forces as barbaric when for the most part they go out of their way to accomodate the customs and comforts of an enemy that hardly deserves it.

Originally posted by apcThey were not shooting at the little girl. They were firing a warning shot at a woman. The woman was who they were concerned about signaling. The little girl getting shot was an accident.

Just wanted to thank you for this. First thing I do when I get a report is check its source. Then find other versions of the report. You can see why so many people think the way they do when they trust anything they read.


[edit on 13-3-2008 by Wolf321]

All wars have casualties.
One of the unforseen (maybe) casualties of this war is America itself.
As with Vietnam once again we are devided as a country.
But i think there is no solution this time.
There are people that i have met that are so blood thirsty.
I'll never think of them as humans again.
Of course these same people do not have to fight this war.
I'm sure 99% of our soldiers are sick of this.
When the suicide rate is up, in ww2 that was a sure sign we were beating the japs.
We can not sustain this war much longer.
Call me a defeatist, i think i'm a realist.
And America will never be the same.
Ever.

Some of you guys act like little bitches..
Your crying over a report about a child that got killed..
Whether the war is based on false pretenses or not it's still WAR. People die.
Your in the wrong place at the wrong time YOU DIE.
If your neighbor shoots at me an you run out of your house screaming YOU DIE.

Whether or not the girl was just waving or signaling she probably shouldn't have been outside that close anyway.
You liberals make a big deal out of every death of every "innocent" person.
yea a couple thousand deaths is still nothing compared to the over 500k lost in the Civil war.

Learn to deal with the fact that innocent people die when there whole neighborhood is at WAR. Otherwise when your country is invaded all your gonna do is hide under a table because you can't deal with what happens in life.

reply to post by DalairTheGreat


Funny, I thought we were over there because a "few" Americans in the wrong place died on 9/11. I guess we should tell their families to quit crying about it and bring our troops home.

Unreal. I can see you saying that and then the next day going to an abortion protest with a sign that says, "Every life counts!"

Hypocrite.