British ratification of EU treaty- a loss of freedom

An most lamentable event is about to take place on British soil that will remove our right to choose how to live. It shall take away our voice in foreign affairs, it shall not let us choose our own domestic laws, and it shall impose directive upon directive upon us.

The UK is poised to ratify the EU treaty in parliament within the next 24 hours.

As Gordon Brown and his Labour party walk into the House of Commons tomorrow to sign this unifying legislation, Britons on the street are utterly dumbfounded. There is opposition to this act in the commons from the Conservative party, though that is unlikely to make any difference due to Liberal Democrat support for the Labour party.

In short, we Britons are standing at the brink. We are standing at a crossroad that once crossed, may not be doubled back on. At the stroke of midnight tomorrow, our fate may be sealed by our dear unelected Prime Minister and his lackeys.

What does the EU treaty do? It erodes the national governance of our country by throwing our 60 million voices to the wind. It allows Brussels and Europe to control our domestic agenda, and more worryingly to TAKE our UN security council seat whenever they deem necesary.

In my opinion, this is an unacceptable proposition. The freedom of this nation shall be lost tomorrow, but how many shall weep for it? How many shall fight for it? My guess is none. The war we fought nigh on 60 years ago is almost forgotten.

If you ask me, this is the biggest threat faced by British sovereignty since 1938 and that pesky chap named Adolf. And again our politicians are set upon appeasement.


Link to news article : uk.reuters.com...

Do any other Brits have a view about this?

Is this another step to a one world government?

Is our democracy a sham?

It's a step in the right direction. This ages-old "scared of the people in the cave next door" mindset people still cling on to is nothing but a vestige of our lives as primitive, society-less apes. People need to work together to progress, and that's what this Treaty of Lisbon, and indeed the EU, are doing for Europe. It's no co-incidence that Europe's prosperity went through the roof after the creation of the EU.

I know we live on a little Island (or used to in my case), but we're as European as the French, we just don't know it

We are not scared, we would just rather control our own destiny rather than have it dictated to us by other countries. Is that too much to ask?

Also it is a known fact that Britain was at the time of creation of the EU, the worlds third richest and worlds second most powerful country. Merging with entities weaker than ourselves is not a way to enchance economic prosperity, nor augment any other facet of public life.

Give me one single thing Britain gains out of being in the EU, then look at Switzerland (who arent in the EU) and tell me whether or not membership of the EU is what brings the prosperity.

You keep using the words "we", "us", "them", etc. That's my whole point. Hundreds of years ago, you'd use those words to describe people in your village ("us") and those outside it ("them"). After that we used it to describe people from our counties or areas. Now, some folks use it to describe folks from the same country. Some folks don't even have a concept of "them", and only see "us". The move into Europe is just the same as all the areas of the UK getting rid of their own Kings and instead being ruled as a larger and larger group. It's human societal evolution, and it won't stop just because the Daily Mail says it should

2nd most powerful country? In 1993? That's hardly a metric any political analyst will use to measure the success of a political and economic community. The fact that more happened to the UK in the last 15 years than just joining the EU means comparing then and now to figure out what we can blame/praise the EU for is absolutely, unquestionably pointless.

What we can look at, though, are the benefits of the EU. More free travel, and more free trade. Those are two massive, massive benefits of the EU. Switzerland has voluntarily adopted some of the measures the EU members have voted on, and is essentially a de-facto member of the EU. So much so that you can spend Euros there in many of the touristy towns. Switzerland has, however, had a different history in the last 15 years than the UK, so comparing the two now and saying "AHA! It's the EU's fault!" makes as much sense as blaming the difference between the performance of the UK and Switzerland on the fact that 'Allo 'Allo being cancelled.

Britain will still control its "destiny". The EU is democratic, and the UK is a major player in it. Being scared of Europe doesn't make much sense - it's our future.

The EU, as it is now being called, is an illegal organisation, without the consent of most of it's 'member' nations, it is not wanted by most British People.
It's simply a Gravy Train for politicians, and maybe a tool for the new world order, simply another organisation that exists to the detriment of the vast majority.
Every nation in Europe should have a referendum as to whether or not they are a part of it. I suspect that only the poorest countries would vote for it judging by the nationalities that are now flooding into England.
As far as I can see, it's all about control, I bet Hitler wished he had thought of it, but then, perhaps he did.

It's obviously much cheaper just to buy a few politicians, than to wage war in order to take over the World.

I really do not want foreigners foisting their laws and regulations on my country, ENGLAND.

Horsegiver.

Originally posted by dave420
You keep using the words "we", "us", "them", etc. That's my whole point. Hundreds of years ago, you'd use those words to describe people in your village ("us") and those outside it ("them"). After that we used it to describe people from our counties or areas. Now, some folks use it to describe folks from the same country. Some folks don't even have a concept of "them", and only see "us". The move into Europe is just the same as all the areas of the UK getting rid of their own Kings and instead being ruled as a larger and larger group. It's human societal evolution, and it won't stop just because the Daily Mail says it should

And you refuse to understand that merging with other population demes is of little benefit to us, seeing as we were more affluent and powerful than them. What next? A merge with Africa so that we can "gain" and "evolve socially"? The evidence of evolution which you suggest, such as regions of the UK merging, were brought about by conquest and the sword. It was the result of a superior power assimilating all others around it, and certainly did not benefit the smaller kingdoms.

2nd most powerful country? In 1993? That's hardly a metric any political analyst will use to measure the success of a political and economic community.

3rd highest GDP (nominal); certainly the 2nd biggest geo-political player in military power projection terms. If youre suggesting that Britain has more influence as part of an EU bloc than it did by itself pre-Maastricht then sir, i must disagree.

The fact that more happened to the UK in the last 15 years than just joining the EU means comparing then and now to figure out what we can blame/praise the EU for is absolutely, unquestionably pointless.

Agreed there, I am not a low browed moron blaming the EU for all our woes. Undoubtedly allowing Human Rights laws to be hived out to Brussels has done our criminal justice system no good though.

What we can look at, though, are the benefits of the EU. More free travel, and more free trade. Those are two massive, massive benefits of the EU. Switzerland has voluntarily adopted some of the measures the EU members have voted on, and is essentially a de-facto member of the EU. So much so that you can spend Euros there in many of the touristy towns. Switzerland has, however, had a different history in the last 15 years than the UK, so comparing the two now and saying "AHA! It's the EU's fault!" makes as much sense as blaming the difference between the performance of the UK and Switzerland on the fact that 'Allo 'Allo being cancelled.

Indeed free trade is a commonly sited benefit, but I urge you to check on your historical facts. Britain had a free trading relationship with the rest of Europe before Maastrict, as part of the EEC.
What have we gained tangibly since joining the EU other than having the "pleasure" of subsidising french farmers via the CAP?

Britain will still control its "destiny". The EU is democratic, and the UK is a major player in it. Being scared of Europe doesn't make much sense - it's our future.

Here we must part ways again! The EU is democratic insofar as it allows a german to decide how a british criminal must be dealt with. It is democratic in that it allows a polishman to decide whether our roads are marked in miles or kilometres. The UK is too small to have a say in the EU... and we shall rue the day our laws are decided by a group of people unconnected to us who are not even living in this country.

In summary sir, i posit that we have much much more to lose than we stand to gain from this ghastly imposition of the mainland upon our shores.

Fair thee well,old friend we will miss you.
we may be right behind you in some kinda amero union.
i hope not and i hope you can somehow extract yourselfs from this
NWO,power grab.

Our local MP was full of praise for the EU. In the local press he mentioned that the UK had been "given" £110 Million towards the cost of repairing the flood damage that occured last year. He forgot to mention that we contribute over £4 Billion at present, this is due to increase to about £8 Billion in the next couple of years.

The silly sod reckons that's a good deal !!

I think it was about 8 years ago when the U.K. had a bad time with the flu epidemic.We had asked France to help out our ailing N.H.S. and take some of our patients into French hospitals.
Their reply?
Non.
I wonder if situations like that will arise again?And if so will the other E.U. states have no choice but to relieve our n.h.s. with bed space??

This is where your hard earned money goes after it has been stolen from you by grossly high taxation rates:

news.bbc.co.uk...

44, We dont control our destiny and never will whilst we have bought off politicians. If you think they have our best interests to heart your sadly msitaken. That as it is I think its time that we Europeans started to live together becasue lets face it how many wars in the past have we fought and for what. We are freer now to move around Europe like never before and who cares anyway. We still have this backward looking aproach here in the UK which I'm sure its due to our Island mentality but I dont understand the irrational fear of those who say we are losing our freedom.

I dont give a dam who owns what as long as we get a fair deal, there is much that other EU countries can offer and we lose out on many things because of our Goverments attitudes to the whole issue. We should have fully intergrated years ago but again ignorance and fear prevented that.

To me it's not about whether it's right or wrong for the lisbon treaty to be ratified.

It is about the great number of Labour MP's ignoring their party pledge and their constituents about having a referendum on anything that gives power away to brussels. This is an in your face "**** you" to democracy.

Nuke the current EU from Orbit minus the UK....

It looks like Hitlers dream will finally come true... a united Europe....only this time there isn't a holocaust (yet)

I't a pity that we seemed to have lost the fight in this country! A long time a go we'd have taken up arms and over thrown this shambles of a government.

If i had the ability i would personally over throw This government and seize control....

The first thing i'd do is pull us out of Europe...

We would still be able to trade with them as we are able to trade with the US, china.

I am NOT A EUROPEAN.

I wonder if i could seek asylum in the US of A or canada or Australia due to political oppression?

It's times like this we need a true leader....

The only thing i can think of saving the UK is if the queen abducated and charles did and William did then King Harry could dissolve parliment. He could then govern the country

The UK...A country with no Identity....A Country on the verge of Economic collapse....A Country Out of control....
A Country i can't call home

reply to post by 44soulslayer


While I do sympathies with what you are saying, looking down the road further I feel compelled to say that the unity of countries is a 'must' if we are to secure 'true' peace on this planet. Yes I am fully aware of the current events taking place in the world today and the feelings of lost independence that such changes will impose on us. However,

Let us suppose that we had been born say, 200 years from now, in a world where their were no 'man-made' countries, just ONE country, ONE planet. Where as students, we are taught that 200 years previously, that the world was in turmoil and that people of that time still believed in their artificial man-made boundaries that made them separate entities from their neighbours. Might our way of thinking be different then?

Is not the transitions we face today worth a better future for our children's, children? The deceit and lies by our respective 'governments' will not go away over night, they will no doubt continue to plague and hinder the growth of mankind, but one day they will get it right, that I am sure of.

Could you please stop talking about "national freedom" and "sovereignty" as if it correlates with personal freedom. Sovereignty in Britain is still ultimately held by the Queen and her government. A great deal of our laws still serve the Crown, so before you talk about our 'unelected' PM, why don't you look at our unelected monarchy.

Have you forgotten things like the European Convention on Human Rights? When the EU imposes treaties on member nations it's generally to protect or improve the freedom and welfare of it's people, and when nations reject treaties or parts of treaties it's generally to protect the state at the cost of the citizens of that country. I have yet to see a European convention that restricts personal freedom, and personal freedom is the most important freedom of all.

Nationalism is archaic and racist, nothing good has ever come from nationalism and it quite often leads to corruption (see Nazi Germany, U.S.S.R, China, North Korea). Groups like the BNP are the epitome of what nationalism produces.
Humanity will never utilise it's full potential while we still divide people with borders and nationalistic prejudices. Have a look at this picture and tell me how borders or any one nation is important?

People are weak and rely too much on national pride instead of developing individual merit, and just like religion and faith, people's national pride is abused to force a minority's agenda on the majority.

It's ironic that you talk about erosion of freedom and yet reject the very things that serve to enhance our freedoms.

reply to post by robert204


An united Europe would be equivalent to the US, not pan-America, or have you forgotten your own history?

reply to post by ian990003100


Unless that your entire post was satire (in which case it's hilariously funny), you are the reason I hold the world 'British' with disdain.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
We are not scared, we would just rather control our own destiny rather than have it dictated to us by other countries. Is that too much to ask?

Also it is a known fact that Britain was at the time of creation of the EU, the worlds third richest and worlds second most powerful country. Merging with entities weaker than ourselves is not a way to enchance economic prosperity, nor augment any other facet of public life.

'National' pride to one's own country is entirely a man made idea and was created by man ONLY to serve the premise of 'THEM' against 'US'. It gave 'reason' to sustaining a false sense of security within our artificial borders. Perhaps the 'weaker' countries would not have remained so weak had we not closed our borders to them, but instead, helped them achieve their potential along with 'ours'!

Originally posted by ian990003100
Nuke the current EU from Orbit minus the UK....

It looks like Hitlers dream will finally come true... a united Europe....only this time there isn't a holocaust (yet)

I fail to see the connections your hinting at here. Our democratically elected governments are attempting to unify like minded European countries by peaceful means rather than by use of military force. Of course their will be problems with these transitions, but that is still not a reason to stop this process.

If i had the ability i would personally over throw This government and seize control....

You are joking right? You would have 'us' isolated from the rest of the world, ruled by a self made, unelected government that dictates a path of strategies to regaining its former power using whatever means at its disposal? Sounds like I've heard these rantings before.