The Early Signs of Public Unrest and Social Chaos?

reply to post by ThatsJustWeird


Yes it is a good thing. But the powers are making it more and more difficult. Permits to assemble are much more difficult to obtain these days.

I know I come of pretty militant, I'm not, I feel the heat because I am right in it, and there are serious signs of unrest. If Bush just sits back and allows the citizens of this country to cause change we will be alright and can then move forward. But his legislative moves, executive orders , signing statements, and other activities lead me to believe otherwise.

As a mother I can not tell you how angry I am that my Government was not there to help educate my sons with reasonable tuition and grant money, but chase after them to become nothing more than military frontline meat.

This isnt a joke. You are even starting to see signs of protest in music. Machine Head's 2007 release "The Blackening" was nominated in 2007 and already in 2008 for a grammy, they were beat out in 2007 however. The cd is filled from start to finish with lyrics that blatently protest the war in Iraq, the Bush administration and organized religion. It is a must listen for anyone who is into metal or anyone with a general feeling of hatred toward the NWO/elite.

reply to post by Witness2008

As a mother I can not tell you how angry I am that my Government was not there to help educate my sons with reasonable tuition and grant money, but chase after them to become nothing more than military frontline meat.

They need uneducated people with nothing to lose. People who know better and have a bright future know they have too much to lose from getting fragged on some distant battlefield and can see past the BS reasons for waging said war in the first place. If you are broke, no education, can't get a job, hey the good ole marine corps will give your family a little cash and take care of you and put clothes on your back.

Its the same thing organized religion does. They campaign more in the poorest neighborhoods. This is because no unlike military enlistment, poor people are more easily sucked into believing something they don't understand, but with a promise of a better life. Do you think university graduates go to recruitment offices in droves after grad night? Hell no!

reply to post by metaldemon2000


I have heard Machine Heads latest. Have you listened to NIN Year Zero, the last few tracks are of a promising future of enlightenment.

reply to post by metaldemon2000


Your right on that. Maybe thats why the administration yanked federal funding from the schools in turn forcing the public universities to raise tuition. I know many young men that are in service because they thought it would boost their future. So far one dead, the others wanting nothing more than to come home. I would love to see a thread started by someone who has served and could give us the real low down.

Originally posted by Witness2008
Yes it is a good thing. But the powers are making it more and more difficult. Permits to assemble are much more difficult to obtain these days.

Not really.
Do you have anything to back up your statement?

As I've stated before, some of the largest protests this country has seen have all occurred within the last few years.



And STATES control public school funding, not the federal government. The complaint about the Bush admin is that they haven't increased the grant amount (which is what the Fed. gov. provides - Financial aid and grants) for higher education assistance. With States having to raise tuition, the amount received in the current grants aren't enough.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Marg, you missed the first part of my quote....about actual protests.
And you are right about people being in the COMFORT of their home. And now you can go outside that home without people trying to hurt or kill you because you're a minority or because you support a war.

[edit on 4-3-2008 by ThatsJustWeird]

Really you should come here to the southern GA and have a taste of what we got in small town America, crime is at a time high in my neck of the woods lately.

I wonder about you my friend you must be living in a version of America that I never seen.

I must admit the idea of a new wave of detainment camps being built in the US is disturbing.

This whole thing has echoes of the Rex84 program designed by the Regan administration - in a nutshell, this program

" was established on the reasoning that if a mass exodus of illegal aliens crossed the Mexican/US border, they would be quickly rounded up and detained in detention centers by FEMA."

but now it seems that these camps could and (judging by this thread) if things keep going the way they are it will be used to house the dissenters, if GWB tries to seize power for another term.

More can be found regarding this program can be found in our archives here. Also of note is the 'Breaking News' link at the top of this page, as it is a recent account from a member of one of these camps during the aftermath of hurricane Katrina.

The thread is very interesting. I have enjoyed reading and following it.

I agree, to a degree with, “that’s just weird” that we have made inroads in civil rights since the 60’s.

I also agree with “weird’s” statement about radical Islam being a danger that could be compared to communism.

I find that one of the thread's assumptions is misplaced. Namely, comparing the social dynamic of the 1960’s to the social dynamic we have in place now.

If we look at the 60’s we see the counter cultures developing from a few areas. The 60”s came out of the social construct of post WW2 and a nesting syndrome of the 1950’s. Namely the idea of the “perfect family” (Leave it to Beaver) , the beginning of the suburbs, jobs were plenty, we had won the war, wages were good, Unions were strong etc.

Everything seemed fine in America besides the “red scare” as Kennedy took over from Eisenhower.

Eisenhower, a brilliant General, WW2 vet, upon giving over the keys of power to Kennedy warned us of a military industrial complex. If you read some of his speeches he seems to lament over the money spent upon the military as opposed to money spent upon American infrastructure. In my opinion it reflects the friction between those who wanted to place money into military buildup as opposed to those who wanted to build roads, bridges, dams, hospitals etc. In fact, Eisenhower built highways with the consensus “protecting America.” It seems to me he wanted to do much more on the civil side then he was able too.

I think we can see the friction building in reading some of Eisenhower speeches in contrast to General Lemays comments and writing. I agree that this is simplified but I want to bring up a contrast that occurred in the 1950’s. Namely those who were post partum WW2 (The Lemays, Macarthur’s) in contrast to those who wanted to build the “perfect American family/dream”. (The Eisenhower’s, academia etc)

The 1950’s brought an explosion of new tech and new idea’s to America as well. Ham radio (SSB), television, the great American automobile, advances in medicine, Christian revival, (Billy Graham, Oral Roberts revivals), Golden era of the Motion Picture Industry.

Sexual ideas began to change in the 1950’s as well…with the beginning of Playboy, Kinsey report, the “non-virgin clubs”, etc. Of course we also have the Beat Generation which influenced the counter culture heavily. We have On the Road, Howl, Lord of the Rings, Lord of the Flies, coming from the writers of the day. (Lord of the Rings. British)

Music changed in the 1950’s from conservative “square” music to cutting edge country (Cash, Willie Nelson), rock and roll (Jerry Lee, Elvis, Buddy Holly, Valens), Jazz ( Dizzy, Coltrane, Miles).

We can see the beginning of a culture clash in the 1950’s with Christian revival, “perfect” family in opposition to Kinsey, The Beats and new music.

Is this a Maslow thing? Were we comfortable and able to push the boundaries because we were comfortable? What was the tipping point?

The sixties came in very tame. We had the Civil Rights Movement being monitored by an ever more secretive and powerful FBI. We had the CIA securing Mexico, Central America, and South America with the leftovers of Operation Paperclip. We were in the middle of MKUltra….etc

In my opinion one of the tipping points was the assignation of JFK. This coupled with Kesey and the Merry Pranksters beginning there exploits in the USA. There is a reason Timothy Leary was labeled the most dangerous man in America in the late sixties by Nixon.

'___' had an incredible effect on the counter culture. It seemed to launch brave new ideas. Drop out of Society. Berkley Free Speech Movement, etc.

The sixties roared into peak attitude during 67/68 and then seemed to die off suddenly. The FBI had infiltrated Abby Hoffman’s thing, the Underground Movement was infiltrated and scattered and the hippies were starting to have babies of there own.

'___' was now illegal and the standard culture of the day began to absorb some of the counterculture ideas. A good example would be the adoption of wearing blue jeans. Once a hippie thing…now it is chique.

The seventies mainstream embraced more of the counterculture thereby watering down much of the radical ideology and viewing it in a romantic way. Being a radical is very hard, and unless there is substantial support it is hard to sustain.

Again this is simplified…yet if compared to 2008 we see a lot of differences. I would conclude that they would be hard to compare.

The things we have in common with the sixties would be the peace movement and the radical power plays by the ruling elite. This also occured in the 1980's to a degree.

We do have reason to believe that something may occur. I say this because there seems to be evidence that the Elite are looking for another power grab with very little government resistance. This is the scary thing…..the Elite are now governing…not the people. We no longer have government for the people, by the people. This is very sobering.





























[edit on 4-3-2008 by whiteraven]

[edit on 4-3-2008 by whiteraven]

reply to post by ThatsJustWeird


Yes I do. Check out the link below. Would you care to hear about my personal experiencess in organizing protests? I can walk you through the process if you like.

www.justiceonline.org...

Universities use to recieve plenty of Federal funding for research, expansion, and then for what would be available for the student. The internet is loaded with help for universities that are looking for special funding. I have a son that is working on his masters in political science. He organized an effort to get the military recruiters off campus, but alas they were threatened with pulling any future funding.

I think, mostly, people love the idea of some radical social movement or disruption to the current order. Mostly because such things are romanticized, and represent a departure from the norm - people get excited and love it when bad things happen generally, because its "different." We live in a world where we are so used to our routine that the idea of some sort of radical change is exciting. We've been so overstimulated that now we're to the point of wishing disaster on ourselves - and many here seem to relish the idea.

People love to be anti-institutionalism because it makes them feel special. Just as the 1960s spawned a generation of people who thought and wanted to believe so badly they were against "the man," so too we have the same thing happening. In a few years, it will all change again. And in a few more, it will start up again.

There is nothing unusual out of the current order of events...except that people want something special to happen. Society moves in upswings and downswings.

reply to post by pacificwind


I long for the routine of the past couple of decades. I have children and I want them to have happy lives making a good living, having their own families, being able to afford good health.

I can not wait for the return of Habeas and the secure feeling that what I do online or over my phone is private. I would love to be able to afford travel again and in ease, maybe even own a home again.

Saturday March 1, 12:43 pm ET

In Fight Against Foreclosures, Ornery Activists Tackle Countrywide, Nation's Biggest Lender

Their quarry, Mike Garmone -- a regional vice president at Countrywide Financial Corp., the nation's largest mortgage lender -- didn't answer his door. So they deployed, ringing bells at the big homes with three-car garages, handing out accusatory fliers and lambasting Garmone and his company's loans. Before departing, they left their calling card -- thousands of 2 1/2-inch plastic sharks -- flung across Garmone's frozen flower beds, up into the gutters, littering the doorstep.

The commotion was the work of an in-your-face activist group called the East Side Organizing Project, with a paid staff then of just two, mobilized to battle Cleveland's mortgage "loan sharks." Years before the rest of the country was rocked by the fallout from aggressive lending, their neighborhoods were already home to the nation's highest concentration of foreclosures -- and they were fed up.

With the U.S. government controls, and oversight being gutted or rendered ineffective by deregulation and budget declines. (Perpetrated by corporate attorneys, and corporate lobbyists.)

The failure of our legal / justice system to address these type of issues, and the overcrowding of our jails.

The country club mentality of these heinous white collar criminal sociopaths.

The only real alternative after protesting, will be lynching and public execution.

My URL: myspace.com/lunarlizardz

reply to post by nnelsosj


Intense! Thanks for the find. The article is great, just a sampling of what is yet to come. I provided a link for the whole article.

www.startribune.com...

Originally posted by Witness2008
Yes I do. Check out the link below. Would you care to hear about my personal experiencess in organizing protests? I can walk you through the process if you like.

www.justiceonline.org...

I'm not sure how that link is showing it's harder to protest, it shows the complete opposite in fact. Great victory for them!
And I know all about the process. And working near downtown DC I see protests all the time. I have not noticed any decreased and have not heard of any complaints about it being more difficult to obtain a permit. Now this is DC, if they're not having difficulties here of all places then........

He organized an effort to get the military recruiters off campus, but alas they were threatened with pulling any future funding.

Could you explain further?

Military recruiters are not required to be on any campus and have to ask permission from the University in order to be on campus. The government has nothing to do with the whole process...

What makes you think that the Seatle arsons were the work of the "Earth Liberation Front"?
A simple note with the signature "E L F"?
If I were an unethical developer stuck with three very $pendy hou$e$ built with borrowed money, houses that I can not sell, it would be a great temptation to sell them to my fire insurance company and leave a note blaming "E L F".

If you are worried about food shortages start thinking about a garden, even a small garden. Do you have a chain link fence on your property? Think of it as a trellis. Plant climbing peas, pole beans, cucumbers, mini pumpkins, and tomatoes along the base of the fence and add a soaker hose for watering.

When the $600 or $1200 comes in May use it to buy cheap pasta and canned pasta sauce or splurge and buy a freeze dried years supply toput under the bed.

Much Homelessness is the result of laws that mandate the minimum size (and cost) of housing. Making housing too expensive to buy pushes the poor into the rental market where they piss away their money.
Being a Minnesotian, I am familiar with ice fishing trailers- ~20Ft (6M) long, 10Ft (3M) wide, fitted with a bunk/couch, gas cook stove, microwave, TV, furnace, refrigerator, carpet and paneling- price about $6 000. If it had a full sink, shower and flush toilet it would be a mobile effiency appartment for one-except for the laws.
Another Idea is to design a house that you could build in five or so 16 x 16 foot modules to make a 32 x 48 foot house with a low maintance corrigated galvanized steel roof. Build the Kitchen-Bath module first and live in it as you work and build your next module after work and on weekends. But the laws will not let you do this.

Every law has more effects than most people realize. Some of the effects are ones that are publicly intended, like prohibiting alcoholic liquor, others are recognized as side effects, like moonshining and bootlegging, while some are totally unexpected (or are they the real reason the the law was past) -the financial windfall that PROHABITION was to the MAFIA and organized crime.

What we need to do is examine ALL of our laws and their effects. Do the child support and welfare laws actually encourage women to have children "Out of Wedlock"? Then we need laws that can tell the difference between a widdow's orphan and a whore's bastard, and treat each accordingly.

What we need is a new political party. A political party that makes no promises but says: We will make no promises, but we will try. In two or four or six years count our achievements and decide if you want to reelect us.

Foreign policy: No food exports, but we will give fertilizer to individual third world farmers. (It has QUADRUPLED crop yelds in Africa.)
Energy policy: We will develop offshore oil and gas deposits. We will push for greater energy effiency. We will develop oil from garbage and other oil sources. We would like to end energy (oil) imports.
Globalization policy: We need to keep our industries at home. The ability to make steel and electronics are the ability to defend our nation.
Economic policy: We are facing not a recession but a FULL BLOWN DEPRESSION!!! If we do next to nothing it will be over in 18-24 months, If we intervene it will hang on for a decade or more. It will be rough but we will try to keep anyone from starving to death.
Military policy: Mess with America and we will stomp you into the ground HELL'S ANGLES style so fast you won't realze we hit you.

Call us "The Jeffersonian Anarchist Beer Party"

Not to take away from this interesting thread, but I would lay heavy odds that the Street of Dreams house fires were the efforts of a builder with financial issues, not an environmental protest.

Just to show you that Bush and Cheney are not completely unwanted men.

I believe this relates to this thread, under the the keyword rebellion.

abcnews.go.com...

reply to post by ThatsJustWeird


The point of the link would be that citizens had to resort to the courts to assemble in a public place. Keep up.

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by pacificwind

 

I long for the routine of the past couple of decades. I have children and I want them to have happy lives making a good living, having their own families, being able to afford good health.

I can not wait for the return of Habeas and the secure feeling that what I do online or over my phone is private. I would love to be able to afford travel again and in ease, maybe even own a home again.

Really? Because...that routine is still around. You didn't have socialist healthcare a few decades ago. The country didn't have Habeas during the civil war either - and by the way, have you been detained by the police without the ability to seek relief? I know I haven't.

I agree that no one should have to think about their phone being tapped, and yet, it doesn't impact my ability to live a full life. As far as being able to "travel again" - whats stopping you? Owning a home? Completely possible. In fact, now you can own one for a deal as real estate prices deflate back to normal.

There is a difference between espoused values versus values in practice. Everyone espouses anti-institutionalism because it is "cool" to be "against the man." But in practice, we all buy into it. But is far more fun to blame all of the problems on the world on whoever is in power/isn't of our ideology.

[edit on 4-3-2008 by pacificwind]