The Early Signs of Public Unrest and Social Chaos?

Has anyone considered that revolution would be playing into the hands of the forces some people believe are in control? Afterall revolution would mean that bush has the perfect excuse to roll out his police state.

On the one hand i think the USA and the UK need revolutions, on the other hand i worry that the pieces have been placed so perfectly it would end up in mass detention of the revolters and complete rule of the citizens left.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


the only reason you cant see it coming grady, is probably because your life is comfy and your bills are paid on time...

if im wrong, just say it.

once your on the street, pennyless, you may see things differently however.

i dont think there will be a "revolution" anytime soon personally, but i also think most ppl are getting really ticked off at the same time

americans are too complacent and apathetic however to do anything about it. lol

Originally posted by Gools
Whatever the underlying cause, I think we are seeing the early signs of severe social unrest leading to a "civil war" between the "haves" and "have nots" with the eventual imposition of a police state.

If we can see them, then so can THEY. Social uprisings are unlikely to be widespread, because they will be dealt with harshly - the majority will therefore tow the line. The mass media will be utilised to 'downplay' or to divert attention. There is unlikely to be any effect that is 'universal' or widespread. If it is widespread, it will be because it is more advantageous to allow the situation to play out.

There is no such thing as a natural economic crash, it is all engineered, wilfully or otherwise. More money can always be printed, an extra zero or two added to computerised records. Money is not real. Nor, when like the oil industry, supply and demand are controlled, are any price increases or decreases reflective of the entire economic picture.

The real issue, in my opinion, that could cause wide spread acrimony is the impending shortage of wheat. This is set to cause a world wide famine simply because of western dependence on industrialised farming. Those of us who can afford to meet the rise in the price of bread and have other food sources will be fine, though this will lead to general price exploitation in the food production ( the so-called knock-on effect), those effected most will be the poorer nations who rely on wheat as a primary food source. Afterall we live in a world where the prize goes to the highest bidder, unless strict import/export guidelines are set, all the wheat will be headed in a westerly direction.

In the west it is probable that those at the bottom of the economy will find the majority of their income will go on food, which will lead to a greater disparity of possessions, which will lead to an increase in property related crime. While the rich will pay lip service to fund projects to alleviate starvation in the third world, they will not do the same for those suffering in their own backyards and will in fact back measures to deal harshly with those that turn to crime to support their lives in the material world they live in. Radical proposals aimed at 'containing' the problem will receive the backing that is required to get them implemented. There is no need for a Police state, the term in itself is archaic and naive, the Police are servants of the law and beyond that they have no control what-so-ever. All that is required is a raising of class consciousness, economic division and the instillation of a sense of being superior to those below you on the food chain.

The very nature of an economic crash is that it allows those at the top to remove obstacles in their path. It means that they can buy out companies at bargain basement prices further improving their monopoly while circumventing monopolies and acquisition laws. They can invest in countries that would otherwise infringe anti-trust laws, because well, people are starving and they have to help - shouldn't they be allowed to do so?

People who are most affected by economic crash do not rise up, they are too busy trying to survive. People only rise up when they have nothing else to lose, very few in the west will ever reach that point and as history has taught us, we are very unlikely to rise up to help those worse off than us if it means we might just have to join them. Self-preservation is a fundamental part of our nature. Either way, it does not work in a tightly framed society like the US, Canada and the UK etc - historically or otherwise, very little has ever changed.

Not to be too bleak. Civil disobedience in my opinion works much better, especially when the laws are used and turned against the oppressors. A greater degree of 'voting by pocket' works too, but it is a pipe dream in the material driven west.

If a civil uprising does occur and has any semblance of organisation, then you can be assured that those that it is directed against are not our enemies but are the enemies of the haves themselves. We have been promoting and fighting the wars of the haves for centuries, very little other than the names have changed, why would anyone expect this time to be any different? We may not have learned but they certainly have, for every action an equal or greater reaction can be engineered. They have the power to do this, we on the other hand are divided if not yet conquered.

Interesting thread I too have a 'hobby' interest in economics but I'm more historical than current...

reply to post by Justin Oldham


I agree Justin, but remember how the government is preparing for this already with their own home grown Terrorism act, you can tell that they are covering every aspect of the American citizens for what is coming next.

Now how far will they go with all this bills, spies, manipulations and laws?

I had a bitter discussion with my husband because he told me that is not a darn thing we can do against the government.

I told him that if my neighbors raise and walk the street to protest I will get up my butt and I will take the streets with them.





[edit on 4-3-2008 by marg6043]

As far as economics go; Credit Card rates will be sky rocketing through the end of this year and many folks already have seen their rates jump.

Car repossessions are through the roof for the same reason home loans are. Greedy buyers combined with greedy loan officers have created a situation when homes and cars have become increasingy unaffordable to the common Prol.

The money supply is restricted , the people can't get cars to go to jobs, can't get jobs to go to, can't maintain even the minimum payment on outstanding credit card debt due to increased rates and increased use (no income gotta use credit! Home loan readjusted, gotta use the card!). These are all ingredients for disaster. Thje automotive bubble is bursting, the credit card bubble will be close behind.

Most people on this site have a basic understanding of what is happening. The common plebe does not even realize that the recession is here. They are too busy watching TMZ or the local sports affiliation. When these people find themselves with no money, housing, or prospects that is when we will see the general uprising in whatever form it may take.

The "Hope" of Obama will keep the pressure off until 2009 I think but once his spending policies go into effect the SWHTF. We have grown to confident and spoiled as a nation to go quietly into another depression. People want their material goods and as soon as a bunch of out of work Wal-Mart employees, Bank Tellers, and Mortgage brokers see some Politician or Stock Broker or CEO cruise by in his Mercedes while they can't even get their cheap knock off flat screen or a house to put it in or a car to bring it home in or a credit card to buy it with anymore it will be on.


I think we will all do well to remember one thing.

"Here is your brick back. I think you will recognize it."



[edit on 4-3-2008 by Tinhatman]

[edit on 4-3-2008 by Tinhatman]

I said it before in my earlier post and I will say it again. The only real means we have of changing anything, the only means we have of making our politicians understand that WE place ourselves and our countries into their "trust" and that they are in place because WE put them there to serve us, is if we have an organised, peaceful non-co-operation.

In the U.K there is a radio presenter who is advising people to vote-in only politicians/candidates who are not already in our parliament/councils. To show them who is boss, he advocates getting rid of the lot and replacing them with the new. They can't do much worse than those already there. I don't know how this might apply in America and other nations but surely we can effect some sort of awakening in our politicians. We can force them to realise that they must serve US or else we will replace them.

Once upon a time not so long ago I lived in a wonderful home in a gated community under the warm, glorious sun in Austin. We had done everything right but see the signs of corporate greed. Just after the fall of Enron (I am sure some of those folks wanted to throw bricks) all hell broke lose in the IT sector and a lot of folks lost jobs due to their export.

I will save everyone the details of the past six years but I have seen tuition cost reach the sky, insurance cost have forced me to withdraw from protecting mine and the health of my children (we use prevention),
food cost is based on fuel prices right now which by the way is speculated and the small business I have right now suffers from the influx of illegal workers that most in my industry are taking advantage of. Slave mentality.

I am prepared for what is to come, I have disconnected and relocating where I can practice self sufficiency, but on my way out I think I will throw a few bricks at a few banks. I refuse the slave mentality.

[edit on 4-3-2008 by Witness2008]

Yet another fear mongering thread, how surprising....
Funny how the same people who complain about the government doing that, do it themselves very liberally.



Man, I would have loved to seen this board in the '60s when things were 1000X worse - and yet, no civil war *gasp*
Probably has something to do with the fact that civil wars are rare even in 3rd world countries. Yet one will just happen in the most powerful nation on earth so easily? Riiiiiiight.....

Here we have "homegrown" terrorism brewing up during an election year. Coincidence? Maybe good old Georgie is trying to stir things up so he can push to declare martial law. Wouldn't be the first time since 2001 that federal agencies have tried to instigate false terrorism (FBI, anyone?).

Look at all of the angles before coming to conclusions. Maybe if we start looking now, WE can avoid or avert another 9/11. Lord knows our government won't.

reply to post by ThatsJustWeird


I was very young in the 60's but my parents can make the comparison between now and then, and they are amazed at the change. A thousand times worse in the sixties is backed up with what?

reply to post by elderban


I'm with you. The degredation of our constitutional rights by the Bush administration screams martial law.


www.bbsradio.com...


[edit on 4-3-2008 by Witness2008]

[edit on 4-3-2008 by Witness2008]

reply to post by ThatsJustWeird


Sorry to burst your bubble but I grew up in the seventies is nothing you can tell me that I don't know, but I can tell you that this America of today is shame compare to 40 or 50 years ago.

This current crisis is only now trickling into the Puget Sound region. The news of the bricks being thrown into the banks and the huge houses being burned are only the beginning. For some reason the Puget Sound has resisted the economic downturn that the rest of the US and world are facing. I have a sneaking suspicion that the reason the Air Force tanker contract was awarded to the Airbus group rather than Boeing was that the powers that be would like to see the Puget Sound fall like everywhere else and they know how important Boeing is to the region. With the news that Boeing didn't get the contract the 767 line in Everett will certainly come to a stop, forcing all of the workers to find other jobs.

I have a feeling that these actions are just the tip of the iceberg and we're getting ready to have the Fed possibly drop the interest rate another .75%. That'll drive our currency even lower, force oil even higher (along with all the precious metals) and therefore all commodities will go up sharply due to dramatically increased diesel costs.

My Grandparents lived through the first depression. It looks like we're all getting ready to live through the second one.

Marg I said 60s

Originally posted by Witness2008
I was very young in the 60's but my parents can make the comparison between now and then, and they are amazed at the change. A thousand times worse in the sixties is backed up with what?

Oh I don't know maybe has something to do with Riots in every major city, police brutality unlike anything we're seeing now, assassinations, etc.

Not to mention that the country was JUST then getting BASIC civil rights for everyone. Voter fraud now? Oh Please. How about not having the right to vote at all.

People have short term memories.

reply to post by ThatsJustWeird


I was born in 1960 my friend, yes I was a child but hell I remember very well the late 60s.

Then what's with your comment Marg?

but I can tell you that this America of today is shame compare to 40 or 50 years ago.

Do you have ANYTHING to back that up?

Back then we were violently denying people their basic rights based on the color of their Skin. That is barbaric and absolutely ridiculous.

How many of the anti war protests now turn violent? Very little. Back then, people were being killed.

How can you possibly justify your statement?

reply to post by ThatsJustWeird


I think you are overlooking a few relevant differences between the situation at present and that 40 years ago. Things have the potential to get worse this time. The fact that things are bad enough to even justify mention of the 60s, combined with the different dynamics this time out which allow for further escalation, is something to be wary of, although I am not advocating for panic.

We no longer have a super-power enemy to keep the majority united.

Price spikes are not the result of embargoes now, but the result of demand exceeding supply, which raises the ceiling on how bad things can get and ensures the problem will last longer.

Our criminals and our failed humans are not just a bunch of home-grown losers smoking home grown depressants this time- instead we've got foreign criminal organizations dealing in meth and crack- these are not the kind of people who hold a concert to show that they are angry, and if they show up in Sacramento with guns, the police will not have to ask whether or not the guns are loaded


I can agree that there is AMPLE room for all of this to blow over. If we can get even just 10 years of consistently good government, we'll be OK. With a few good sized infrastructure projects, some adjustments to tax policy, and emergency spending cuts in certain areas, they can get us out of this mess- they can keep people working, they can keep people purchasing, and they can develop America's competitiveness in the global economy. And if one thing is manifestly true about Americans, it's that they don't generally stir trouble when their bottom line is good.

But let's face it, America does face challenges, and it is gut-check time. We've been thrown a fast ball, and it's either going out of the park or right by us. If we wanna sit around pretending things are hunky-dory like we'd never heard the story of Casey at the bat, you can bet your bippie it's going by us.

reply to post by ThatsJustWeird


My comment is in the order in which we became unified as citizens and made the government work for the people no against the people and it was purpose and change did come.

Right now people are too afraid to do anything to bring change anymore in this nation.

People were no afraid to speak their mind, now it comes with a tag and a price.

If you can not understand this then sorry but only went you live through a period of time as important as the one in the 60s and early 70s you can not understand and historical accounts are never enough.

reply to post by ThatsJustWeird


The difference between the sixties and now is that we were moving forward and making positive change, the rioting was for the best and exposed the brutality of the authorities. It brought an end to the occupation of another country. During the three decades after we made real change in this country, voting rights, greater rights for all. I'm not so sure voting rights are greater now than then.. FLORIDA...the discrimination simply lacks color these days.

Since 2000 and the birth of the NWO and the hailing of George Bush, those rights we once had in the sixties.. to speak openly, assemble openly,use our second amendment rights, borrow money without being gouged, the right to employment, the right to pursue happiness, all are being taken away.

Police brutality my friend is much more severe these days, then to top it off our right of habeas has been taken away, were not just being brutalized we can now be held without charges indefinantly.

When considering a civil war in these days as compared to our early history in this country, one must consider the disparity in weapons that we have now between the government and its people.

Under the original civil war, both sides were basically equally armed with equal munitions capabilities. This no longer holds true. Fully automatic weapons are illegal and legal abiding citizens do not own them. The general populace also does not have missile capability in their backyard, we don't have access to the same satellite technology or other various technologies that our government holds that could conceivably be used against its own population if push comes to shove. How many people in the general populace own bullet-proof vests, gas-masks, armor-piercing bullets, etc? There is too much disparity between the arms capability of the government and it's people in order for a civil war to carry the same power that it would have a couple of hundred years ago.

We're heading towards a new type of civil war..where people drop out. Acknowledging that they are out-manned and out-gunned and simply go off to find a place where they can try to stay off of the radar and live the rest of their days in what true freedom they can etch out for themselves and thier loved ones.

In the words of the poet James Kavanaugh:

UNAFRAID TO BE FREE

"Finally unafraid to be free,
Ready to surrender all the illusions of
recognition and external securities,
Living off the sky and earth like soaring
eagles and braying burros,
Trusting in a Power even beyond Dow Jones
and hoarded retirement.
Finally ready to live like the noble animal that I am-
Without masters or servants, with dignity dependent on no one,
Content to know that I am God's child, and
only good has been prepared for me.
When I am not afraid to release all that my life
and culture taught me to prize.
To abandon fears once and for all, to discard the
anxieties of a lifetime like a suit that no longer fits,
To be afraid of no one, beholden to no one,
dependent on no one
Save the few who know and love me as I am,
and the God Who alone gives meaning and joy
to the madness of my life."

James Kavanaugh