Heaven is a PLANET!

Originally posted by rexpop

Originally posted by Rosen
the best of mankind lives eternally through constant use of cloning

I dispute this - I haven't read much about Rael, I admit, I've just heard loads of anti-Rael propaganda, but I assume that the cloning is a new body, and then a person's memories and junk transferred to a computer, and then to the cloned body. If I'm wrong, the rest of my thoughts are irrelevant, but I'll continue.

I believe that the soul is a separate, unknowable 'entity' that is completely distinct from one's personality, body, mind, memory, etc. Just having an identical mind and identical body does not mean that it is the same 'person' - the soul would be different. Therefore, one 'person' is not living through multiple lives, but many different 'people' are merely living identical lives. I believe this would be a complete limitation on those souls to become individualised and free and 'true' 'persons'. Sorry about all the quotation marks, but language is limited, and I've just drunk quite a bit of wine, and articulation escapes me. I hope I make some kind of sense.

It's basically the same theory I hold for Star Trek style transportation technology. Each time someone is transported they literally die and a simulacrum is fashioned in a new place who is identical to but essentially unique to to original.

Damn, does that make any sense?

It's all my own speculation, and I don't expect anyone to change their minds because of it, just expressing my own opinion to the Rael comment. Again, I admit, I probably should have research Raelianism before making this post. Brick it, I just wanna share with you awesome guys.

Freedom for all!

EDITED becuase I can't type to save my life and made laods of typos. Sorry :-(

[edit on 1/3/2008 by rexpop]

If you go to www.rael.org, you can download Rael's book. I would read that first as a starting point to understanding the Raelian philosophy. One thing you will read is that we don't believe in a soul, but rather that the soul is in the blood of man - it's your DNA.

Proverbs 3:5 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding."

I seen that someone posted this. This is just one of the many indicators that organised religion is just another method of control. If one were to become spiritually free, wouldnt the first step be to learn and understand things on your own? Rather than having it spoonfed to you?

Also to the OP i dont think the planets actual name is Heavan, or that it is an actual planet. I do believe the entire bible is misinterpreted and has been changed way too many times to make any kind of sense when compared to the origional stories.

We must not forget that bible stories are stories that were passed on verbally for thousands of years and were rewritten many times to fit what was considered to be modern in those days. Stone tablets have been found that are thousands of years older than Christianity that contain stories similer to bible stories and who knows when the origional story on the tablet was actually written.

I personally believe that our race is what is left from a previous society that was destroyed somehow. Whether we came from Mars or perhaps a great disaster of some sort but either way i think alot of these great stories such as the flood stories; that every society on the planet has its own version of; is some kind of memory that has been passed on about who we once were. For example we may have called our planet Heaven.

reply to post by Thurisaz


Lol, your kidding me right? I do not intend to sound mean, but seriously, I'm no bible school graduate, but me and Enoch both agree on where heaven is and what it is. Firstly, you are putting God in a human box, we only see Him in a way our human minds can comprehend, however He is much more than what we know. Second, I will now explain something to you since I am an avid student of the Bible. There are three heavens, a) The air/atmoshpere. b) Space (not planets, your concordance or notes are wrong). And lastly c) God's domain. The latter is both physical and spiritual as well as something which we can't comprehend. as to it's location, it incompasses the universe like the shell of an egg, with the egg whites and yoke being space and planets. That my friend is the best way I can explain it to you from a physical sense.
As to how I know that I am right about the definitions of "Heaven", well I grew up "in" the Word and I study the original hebrew, chaldean, greek and arimaic words. I also have friends with masters degrees in theology that I turn to when I'm stuck and when all else fells, I listen to the Holy Spirit.

Peace,

-Jimmy

Originally posted by mrwupy
Heaven is a state of mind. You can have it here if you like, if you only open yourself up to the possibility.

Free the chains from your mind and the chains on your soul will melt away.

This is more true than we realize.

As I said, Heaven being a higher dimension which affects the lower (as all dimensions affect one another) : the way we think and act in this world DOES affect the other realms to some degree.

If we clean up our state of mind we are by effect clearing our perception to the higher realms, and we can literally 'feel' divine presence or heaven with us. In the extreme case, this is enlightenment, and it blows our material minds away.

In the Bible, God states something along the lines of ‘I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end’, which has been construed as God exists across time. Time holds no constraints for God. In our understanding, God is a time traveller perhaps.

The Bible therefore could easily be changing in its content all the time. We would not be aware if it was, as each of our lives change to match any earlier amendment. I imagine that for various reasons, our past changes frequently, as does our record and memories of it.

I would not be surprised at all if new discoveries are often found in the Bible, from texts that we always thought were there.

Best wishes

Myrdyn

Listen to half of what you hear and believe half of what you listen to.

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
reply to post by Thurisaz

 

Lol, your kidding me right? I do not intend to sound mean, but seriously, I'm no bible school graduate, but me and Enoch both agree on where heaven is and what it is. Firstly, you are putting God in a human box, we only see Him in a way our human minds can comprehend, however He is much more than what we know. Second, I will now explain something to you since I am an avid student of the Bible. There are three heavens, a) The air/atmoshpere. b) Space (not planets, your concordance or notes are wrong). And lastly c) God's domain. The latter is both physical and spiritual as well as something which we can't comprehend. as to it's location, it incompasses the universe like the shell of an egg, with the egg whites and yoke being space and planets. That my friend is the best way I can explain it to you from a physical sense.
As to how I know that I am right about the definitions of "Heaven", well I grew up "in" the Word and I study the original hebrew, chaldean, greek and arimaic words. I also have friends with masters degrees in theology that I turn to when I'm stuck and when all else fells, I listen to the Holy Spirit.

Peace,

-Jimmy

Great explanation. God is so much more then we can guess.

Haha, I love the whole egg thing... its such a good way to explain it all.

-fm

reply to post by Thurisaz


Heh, I was wondering when people were going to realize this. People need to stop looking at the Bible as a collection of fairy tales and look at it as a history/science book. Great post. My mother told me about this when I was a young kid. She was, and still is the most righteous person I know. Nothing has changed as a result of this knowledge. I always wondered why no one else brought it up, but then I wondered why I didn't...It's just a crazy unconventional idea...And no one would have taken me seriously...I'm glad people are more aware now.

reply to post by projectvxn


You should read what I previously posted, sorry, but Heaven is not a planet. Research the bible, the original words and they're definition. I put away all I was taught conserning the Bible one day and started to find things out for myself. I now know more than I've ever known before. Heaven is God's domain and it is not in any way a planet.

Question, how could God exist if He created a planet on which to live and then created the universe?

Quite simply, Heaven existed before the universe. Another way for me to explain it is imagine you are God, your house is heaven (even though it's probably a mess like mine) and you create a basketball. well the outide layer of the basketball is a physical barrier between Heaven and the universe, inside the basketball is the universe. So before there was the basketball there was the house.

I looked for this one: The Planet Heaven (2 Cor. 12) in my KJV and was UTL.

Do we even know what they meant by "planet" back then?

plan·et /ˈplænɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[plan-it] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. Astronomy.
a. Also called major planet. any of the nine large heavenly bodies revolving about the sun and shining by reflected light: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto in the order of their proximity to the sun.
b. a similar body revolving about a star other than the sun.
c. (formerly) a celestial body moving in the sky, as distinguished from a fixed star, applied also to the sun and moon.
2. Astrology. the sun, moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto: considered sources of energy or consciousness in the interpretation of horoscopes.
[Origin: 1250–1300; ME planete (< OF planète) < LL planéta, planétés (found only in pl. planétae) < Gk (astéres) plantai lit., wandering (stars)]

source

Could it be that the real meaning has been lost in translation, like many other concepts are known to have done?

Children on the other hand have sponges for brains and can learn and accept what they are told and will be able to exist in such a place.

So I think if and when the end time comes it will be the childers that ascend and the adults will suffer an end.

Hence, " suffer little children to come unto me".

This may also explain that only 70% of the people of earth will ascend, maybe its the kids.

PARTS OF THE MESSAGE BELOW MAY BE CONSIDERED OFF-TOPIC
(if so, I apologise)

You are very lucky to have met only angelic children- or maybe not so lucky considering the blanket statement that adults are full of "anger and hate"? ;-)

I am an adult, and I am definitely not full of anger, let alone hate.
Nor is my mother or most of my relatives - or anyone that I associate with (or I wouldn't associate with them).

On the other hand, I have met very many children who exhibited (simply because they hadn't been socialised yet) very nasty tendencies and ugliness.

Does it surprise me?
No, not one bit.

Indeed, we have to become - or stay - like "little children" to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

To me, that means keeping the attitude of blissful awareness of UN-knowing (which, if you ask me, is the definition of "humility" and the reason why the latter is so praised - but I digress).

In other words, keeping the Heart and Mind permanently open to everything - including the possibility of all those things that "adults" call impossible, outrageously illogical, absurd - why simply preposterous!

Open to the belief that there is nothing and nobody, no force in the Universe, that WANTS us to be unhappy and miserable and deprived; open to the belief that God not only allows us to be happy, but WANTS us to be happy - here and in the hereafter.






[edit on 1-3-2008 by Vanitas]

The source I used is the Dake Bible. I am presently reading some Egyptian and Summerian info that correlates with this.

This is NOT (I repeat) MY interpretations.

Originally posted by photobug
You are saying that "planet heaven" was created before the earth and list several bible verses to prove that fact. No where in those verses does it state that heaven is a planet. I think you are purely speculating just as those that speculate about the verses of revalation.

Originally posted by pierreletrek
This makes me think that none of us, as adults, are destined to go to planet heaven. As a human race we have too much anger and hate.
Great post and more reading for me

What is so disappointing is that a person with 55+ years experience reading the KJV and has Ministers in the family has added me as a FOE from this thread

That mentalilty is very sad and I personally felt upset by such an act, when I considered I had done nothing at all to this person. My Crime? Posting information found in a Bible.

If people with faith are so quick to react like that, what hope in society do we have? So much for love thy neighbor or the Golden Rule.

Originally posted by pierreletrek
The above text to me makes me think this person has a narrow mind! There are many 'BIBLES' out there why is yours the correct one?

I think the OP has made a good thread but if you can substantiate that the King James version of the bible is the only religious education to us on this planet then fair play.

Well, the funny thing is the Dake Bible is also KJV. I bought it from a Christian Book Store and when I asked which one was a good one to have, the old lady recommended it.

Thank you for contributing

Originally posted by AotearoaSon
That is exactly what I am saying, because there is no god, only human construct.

I don't care if you believe in God or not. The whole point in posting this info was to discuss information found in my Bible that states Heaven is a Planet. Even if, it is as you state, God is a human construct, then perhaps humans have misinterpreted their own construction, if we rely on oral traditions and clues left on tablets, ancient documents.

Proverbs 3:5 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding."

I am not sure who posted this but AGAIN for the record, I repeat:

My introductory post is not my understanding. It is in my Bible and I have stated the Bible I own. So, please, can everyone stop suggesting I have interpreted this Thank you!

Originally posted by metaldemon2000
We must not forget that bible stories are stories that were passed on verbally for thousands of years and were rewritten many times to fit what was considered to be modern in those days. Stone tablets have been found that are thousands of years older than Christianity that contain stories similer to bible stories and who knows when the origional story on the tablet was actually written.

Yes thank you. I am well aware of this and I am presently reading up on Sumerian and Egyptian information now.

Considering what you posted; wouldn't it be wise then, to have an open mind?

Originally posted by ThreeNF
This is exactly what Rael says in his book. The Elohim are a scientifically advanced (by 25,000 years) extraterrestrial race, led by Yahweh. There is no Heaven as most think of it, but rather a planet of eternals who can live indefinitely through cloning and memory transfer.

Wow, I did not know about this. I had heard of Rael but knew nothing about this movement. Funny, how the leader's name is Yahweh.

Originally posted by Badge01
If the Bible was 'created' to give instruction, comfort and satisfy other emotional and spiritual needs, then I don't see anything wrong with postulating about this.

Thankyou, exellent point you make!

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
reply to post by Thurisaz

 

Lol, your kidding me right? I do not intend to sound mean, but seriously, I'm no bible school graduate, but me and Enoch both agree on where heaven is and what it is.
-Jimmy

Wow Jimmy, considering Enoch isn't even in the Biblical Cannon and what I offer up is... ? LOL

Not suggesting Enoch is Heretic or anything, I read Enoch with great interest as I do with all of the Lost Books

Your stance seems contradictive

But, I most certainly will not reject or ridicule you for believing something different to me

cheers


[edit on 1-3-2008 by Thurisaz]

reply to post by C.H.U.D.


Great post.

I am reading just now Egyptian info and seems that planets could have been referred to as stars.

It is certainly leaves the interpretation open!

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Thurisaz

 

Heh, I was wondering when people were going to realize this. People need to stop looking at the Bible as a collection of fairy tales and look at it as a history/science book. Great post. My mother told me about this when I was a young kid. She was, and still is the most righteous person I know. Nothing has changed as a result of this knowledge.

Thank you for sharing. I am intrigued that your Mother told you about this? = oral tradition?











[edit on 1-3-2008 by Thurisaz]

One needs to consider what version of the bible is being used for this reading, and that most versions are missing chapters or are edited, and usually not to be taken literally. Clearly the bible (king James version) does lead us to think that heaven is above us, is the sky or is in the sky, and the description of heaven (pearly gates, ect) describe a real place. Interesting to think about, we take for granted from what we learn about heaven that it is 'up there' somewhere, without thinking what that might mean.

[edit on 1-3-2008 by space cadet]

Heaven could very well possibly be another planet. I am thinking Hell is planet earth.

Good topic :-)

Wow Jimmy, considering Enoch isn't even in the Biblical Cannon and what I offer up is... ? LOL

Not suggesting Enoch is Heretic or anything, I read Enoch with great interest as I do with all of the Lost Books

Your stance seems contradictive

But, I most certainly will not reject or ridicule you for believing something different to me

cheers


[edit on 1-3-2008 by Thurisaz]

And agian I say, your kidding me right? Enoch is in the Bible, he's a PERSON, he's the father of Lamech, who in turn is the father of the infamous Noah. I didn't not say anything about the book of Enoch (which if you read you would see that he talks about Christians BEFORE THE FLOOD). He also was so close to God that he didn't die but was taken up to heaven whilst he was still alive, hence a little bit of the reasoning behind why I know that heaven is as I have described as far as it's location and make-up. Also other folks in the cannonized Bible quote Enoch, plus I have asked my friends with master degrees in theology if they think it's a good book to read, if it has any relevance to anything else in the bible and they agree that it is and does, these are pastors btw.
Research for yourself, don't just go off of some side note in your bible, seriously, your kidding me right?

[edit on 2-3-2008 by jimmyjackblack]

reply to post by Thurisaz


Also, please do not confuse what I'm saying as ridicule or anger or anything like that. I'm worried that your going to get into a confusion, it's very frustrating for me to see people being mislead. It's kinda like seeing a blind person trying to drive a car down a curvy road. There are some things that must be and understanding of things before you delv into things like this. Trust what I have written, get a strong's concordance and look up the exact hebrew word used for heavens in each of those passages and you will see that me and Enoch agree as I have said earlier.

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
And agian I say, your kidding me right? Enoch is in the Bible,

Oh LMAO... I thought you were talking about the book of Enoch!

OH and another thing, I appreciate your effort and contribution here.

You are sure or convinced by your own studies that Heaven is not a Planet, I on the other hand am not convinced.

So, do we write Dake's Annotated Referenced Bible off as heretic?

In fact, I intend to go into the Christian Shop where I bought it from and speak to someone about this.

I mean to say, how dare a Christian Book Shop sell me a Bible that is intended to mislead me?


[edit on 2-3-2008 by Thurisaz]

How fascinating. Im searching for my bible so I can see for my self.

I always wondered who god was talking to in genesis 1/26 "And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness.

Mabye know we know.

reply to post by Thurisaz and gimme_some_truth


Firstly, I am not calling anyone a heritic. What you have done Thurisaz is taken one man's minor notation (who was not even directly refering to a planet but in the place in which they reside) and developed an unsupported theory that holds water as well as my bladder (which for some reason I'm always having to pee). Heavenly bodies on the other hand refers directly to planets, heavens refers to the place in which they reside and indirectly to to heavenly bodies on a broad spectrum. Please, do better research before drawing such a conclusion. Here's an somthing just for kicks though, after the new heaven (new universe, because the old one will implode as the bible states) and new earth are created try to imagine what it will be like without stars and without a sea, man, that's some crazy stuff eh?

And gimme_some_truth, God was talking to Jesus (Yeshua) and The Holy Spirit. This is backed up in the New Testament (can't remember the exact passage off hand).