The Sorcery Conspiracy

reply to post by rizla


My opinion based on scripture from the Bible. My evidence is scripture that's my point of view. Sorry if it ruins your buzz.

Marijuana, along with most other drugs of its kind, has also been proven to have harmful physical and psychological effects on the user. If we believe I Cor. 3:16, we will not do ANYTHING to intentionally harm our bodies, which are the temples of God.

We are also, as Christians, in a constant spiritual battle against Satan (Eph. 6:12). No person goes into battle unprepared, especially Christians. Marijuana's psychological effects include but are not limited to: paranoia, anxiety, fatigue, loss of ambition, lowered inhibitions, loss of concentration, and delusions and hallucinations; not exactly the traits of a godly warrior.

When we realize that Satan is roaming around, seeking to "devour" us (I Pet. 5:8) and that we must be "self-controlled and alert", we must also realize that anything which weakens our resolve or chips away at the armor that God has given us is evil.

I Thess. 5:22 tells us to abstain from the very APPEARANCE of evil. Phil. 4:8 tells us what to think on as Christians and since we usually end up DOING what we think about, this is an excellent scripture for this topic. Finally, Col. 3:5 tells us to put to death whatever belongs to our earthly nature. If we have died to self and live in Christ, we will not allow anything other than God to gain control of our lives. Marijuana WILL take over your life if you let it. I hope I've helped you to deny ignorance.




[edit on 3/1/2008 by Bigwhammy]

reply to post by Bigwhammy

Now the prophets had visions but they didn't use drugs to have them.

I fully understand and I agree.

The visions with Sorcery were not form God... when you do psychedelic drugs you have no idea what you're dealing with...

I do not do drugs, this part must be for another poster. My previous posts was to clarify the term "drug" which is often misused. Some of the thoughts on this thread are hard to follow and were going way off topic.

The drugs in this case are not the same as the poster claimed, they are for healing and or anointing.

APOTHECARY - A compounder of drugs

(Exodus 30:25,35;37:29; 2 Chronicles 16:14; Nehemiah 3:8)
Exodus 30:25

And thou shalt make it an oil of holy ointment, an ointment compound after the art of the apothecary: it shall be an holy anointing oil.





[edit on 1-3-2008 by Siren]

reply to post by Siren


sorry about that I didn't mean to imply you did... I was drawing a contrast between the two...

what were you getting at with the mutterers

and the bug thing?

I'm getting tired so I'm a lttle slower on the uptake


[edit on 3/1/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
It's funny how Christians get accused of pushing their beliefs on others. The thing is even if we do, it's because we genuinely don't want people to go to hell, it is done out of caring about folks.

So you make their lives hell on earth instead. What a trade!
Besides, any "god" evil enough to damn someone for smoking pot or reading Harry Potter does not deserve my worship.

You might find these handy. Be sure not to miss the point. You did not understand what was said. It was very on topic.

The Greek word hamartia (ἁμαρτία) is usually translated as sin in the New Testament. In Classical Greek, it means "to miss the mark" or "to miss the target" which was also used in Old English archery.

Eph 5:18 deals with biased sinning.
We are not to show partiality
We are not to get into fist fights
We are not to condemn those who take a glass of wine
We should not get drunk

Although the Bible does not address marijuana directly, it does discuss other mind-altering drugs. Specifically, the Bible addresses the use of drugs in the book of Galatians:
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21)
So, where are the drugs mentioned in this verse?
Actually, the word translated "sorcery" is the Greek word pharmakeia,4 from which we get the English word "pharmacy." The primary meaning is "the use or the administering of drugs" (usually associated with sorcery or idolatry). Since this verse comes from a list of things that if practiced would preclude one from heaven, this should be a reasonably strong suggestion that the Christian should not practice drug use. In addition, the book of Revelation lists drug use as one of the things for which the unrepentant will suffer the wrath of God.5

Also,

Lk. 6.3738, 4142 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mk. 4.24

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

6 ¶ Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

So as a Cristian YOU should not use these things. And AS a Christian passing judgment is NOT following the way of Christ.

So what are you doing here and what is the point you are attempting to make? The way you speak to others questioning you seems more hurtful than loving.

I think your ignoring is ignorance. Love is the heart of the Christ.

You are not turning your cheek!

ZG

Please to not curse me with your comments. I am going on.

Originally posted by Siren

Some of the thoughts on this thread are hard to follow and were going way off topic.

I agree, there are many postings here that are way off topic, which was my point before. It's very hard to follow sometimes.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by rizla

 

Marijuana, along with most other drugs of its kind, has also been proven to have harmful physical and psychological effects on the user. If we believe I Cor. 3:16, we will not do ANYTHING to intentionally harm our bodies, which are the temples of God.

Now while I do not condone participating in illegal activities this struck me as odd.

In these passages it is okay to partake of plants...

Genesis 3:18
It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field.

Genesis 9:3
Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.

Now, smoking would indeed damage the so-called temple. However, eating the plants, which according to these scriptures is allowed, would not. I imagine that is why it is used in medical treatments.

And if we really want to get on a track about damaging temples, lets work on the massive obesity statistics. Your body is a temple, and god doesn't like a fat chapel. (A saying of my mothers, and not directed at any specific person)

Now for the rest of the sorcery. I say this about alot of different things/ideas. "If it worked, everyone would be doing it" For example, if "potions" could cure different things, or have "magical" attributes. Everyone would be using/making them. Keep in mind I am using a generalization, I know very well that "everyone" would not.

As for me, I could care less. The Bible is obviously an collection of allegorical works. With a multitude of different authors. I do not let other "men" tell me how to live my life. If a god wants to come visit me and tell me that certain actions are incorrect, then I might listen. But for a man/woman who is no better, or worse, than I to tell me how to live is laughable. I am referencing the many authors of the Bible, and no one here.

As far as I am concerned, sorcery is just as mythical as Jesus. Well the Jesus depicted in the Bible anyways. If it is not, count me in for learning the ability. It would make life a wee bit more interesting.

Well, I can't agree with everything you say, but I gotta say this:

Your body is a temple, and god doesn't like a fat chapel. (A saying of my mothers, and not directed at any specific person)

I'm going to use that one often

Originally posted by Siren
reply to post by Bigwhammy

 

Now the prophets had visions but they didn't use drugs to have them.

I fully understand and I agree.

The visions with Sorcery were not form God... when you do psychedelic drugs you have no idea what you're dealing with...

Actually no one knows these things for sure... and it is highly possible that some if not all could have been temporal lobe seizures or other brain disorders or even drug use.

All drugs are doing is creating a chemical reaction and allowing more or less of something that is already produced in your body to be sucked up or pumped out.
You could call them little chemical instructions ..
ingesting these are choosing a path instead of allowing 'the spirit' to guide you.. or allowing what happens happen.. in other words instead of allowing 'religion' to take its course you are forcing a symbolic/religious experience and by doing so without taking the proper ritualistic preparations is not only a waste but just drug use and nothing more.
Generally speaking only novices or incredible 'set' people require the use of drugs when it comes to sorcery.

[edit on 3/2/2008 by PuRe EnErGy]

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy

Actually no one knows these things for sure... and it is highly possible that some if not all could have been temporal lobe seizures or other brain disorders or even drug use.

I think it's safe to say you are way off base. The visions of the prophets in the Bible accurately foretold the future. If you couldn't do that you were not a prophet. Needless to say, if a prophet had a brain disorder or was tripping on drugs his prophecy wouldn't be accurate. False prophets were stoned to death in short order. So I disagree with you.

For example, in Isaiah 52:13-53:12, the prophet foreshadowed the life and mission of Jesus, who was born about 700 years later. In Isaiah 53:3, the prophet said that a servant of God would be rejected and despised. Jesus was indeed rejected by many people living in the land of Israel, and He was later crucified by the Romans.

All drugs are doing is creating a chemical reaction and allowing more or less of something that is already produced in your body to be sucked up or pumped out.
You could call them little chemical instructions ..

But it is hardly natural. Sure your body pumps out more dopamine and serotonin - which are natural - but at super physiological levels that are not natural or healthy.

ingesting these are choosing a path instead of allowing 'the spirit' to guide you.. or allowing what happens happen.. in other words instead of allowing 'religion' to take its course you are forcing a symbolic/religious experience

It's choosing a path taught by fallen angles which is called sorcery. That much is clear. It is expressly forbidden the Bible.

It appears that is the path you have chosen, correct? Your signature is about Black Magic, is that your path?


I do not agree with your choices but thanks for sharing your views. I hope the forgiveness of the cross goes further than some say.

reply to post by adigregorio



Hi adigregorio!

How are you doing? I still pray for you everyday. It was a blessing to me the day you changed your mind about Jesus. I addressed the Genesis quotes earlier in the thread. God was talking about using the plants for food, not to get stoned. People want to use those verses as an excuse to use pot but it is clearly not what was meant.

Originally posted by ZeroGhost

Hi ZeroG wasn't it you that said...

I cant make sense of this thread. Is it religion (the opiate of the people) or Drugs (the substances that release the mind alterants already in us), or the responsibility to be good and loving people no matter what you do, say, use, wear, practice, create, or believe?

Sorry if "I missed the mark" but it seemed like you were saying the Christian faith is the "opiate of the people". Isn't that what you said? I took offense to my religious faith being classified as a drug induced haze.

I did respond to you. Did you read it? It's back in the thread.
Here it is again to make it easy for you...

I have to disagree with you on the "opiate of the people" thing. And Drugs don't just release what's already there. There's no THC or ethanol already in your blood and the drugs that do work that way like '___' put a super physiological amount in you that is not natural. That said, it's really not what we are discussing. Thanks for the post.

Anyway I was very tired by yesterday evening and quite a few people seemed intent on ridiculing the Christian faith and calling the Bible fairy tales etc. So if I was somehow too aggressive in my defense, I apologize. I am human and I do make mistakes.

It's Sunday so I will be going to church soon. I enjoy playing guitar at church and that's where I learned the Bible. So I might not be around to "attempt" to keep this thread on the topic. This is my attempt to do so before I leave. The topic as I see it is the conspiracy to suppress the Biblical teaching on sorcery. Mainly that sorcery is drug use.

I really think our biggest Sorcerers are the doctors who over prescribe drugs for emotional problems. People used to seek spiritual guidance for emotional problems. In this thread CS gave a testimony that when she got off the Drs drugs and became a Christian her issue were healed.

The Religion of Bio-Psychiatry

By Dan Edmunds

If we examine the term 'psychotherapy' we will see that it literally means the 'healing of the soul'. Much of emotional distress is actually a spiritual problem, where an individual has lost meaning and hope. In today's society, we have lost sight of spiritual values and many have in turn decided to turn to the religion of bio-psychiatry.

Bio-psychiatry has a creed, the creed is that all problems of life are the result of so-called chemical imbalances. Any professional or individual challenging such conception is branded a heretic and subject to sanction.

The psychiatrist is the priest, and in some cases is also looked upon as a messianic figure. As the priest, the psychiatrist defines the Social Law and the infractions thereof. The religion of bio-psychiatry has its 'sacraments.' The sacrament of initiation occurs at intake, and confirmation occurs when the individual is indoctrinated into the credo of bio-psychiatry and led to believe that their problems lie in 'wiring' problems in their brains.

source

reply to post by Bigwhammy

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
What denomination was it?

Anglican. Very High Church. I attended a posh Anglican boys' school; some of our masters were very big on theology, and our chaplain at the time is now bishop of the principal diocese of my country (and thus, automatically, Chairman of the Board of Governors of that very same school).

Since this thread is about a conspiracy to hide the Bible teaching on drug use for pleasureand/or enlightenment let me ask you was it ever discussed in any of those organizations or functions that you were involved with?

No, of course not. The Youth for Christers told some stretchers -- the usual hysterical tall tales about drugs, some of which I took quite seriously until personal experience taught me better. You might say drugs helped cure me of religion.

reply to post by Bigwhammy

I really think our biggest Sorcerers are the doctors who over prescribe drugs for emotional problems.

I think this is true, but, also, sorcerers by craft inflict harm on other people who do not know what is happening. Walking in the footsteps of Christ will reveal this, which is why in Revelation it says to do “the first works”. Remember, there are some who do not know the depths of Satan. There are other verses that reflect this: “led like a lamb to the slaughter”, “cleanse me from my unseen faults”.

This country is run by sorcerers (rulers of darkness), and some may believe they are serving God.

People used to seek spiritual guidance for emotional problems.

Living in the “end times” means people have to have it inside. It must be a personal walk of faith with the individual and God. I know that some find it latter in life, but it is an advantage if the foundation of belief in God is laid in youth. Some may stray from the path, others may waver, but, if the foundation has been laid there is no disconnect no matter how far one goes off course. I believe God understands what one does and what was inflicted upon one, I believe that is why as Christians, we should “judge not”. I also think that today people are raising “Harry Potter” babies and it is a shame. The mind becomes confused (the con is fused) and must be renewed. In my opinion, emotional conflict ensues because there is a war within. The forces of darkness are battling with the truth within, and the world is pressuring for conformity. The individual mind can not resolve this issue, only God. Which is why we must worship in spirit and take no thought.

In this thread CS gave a testimony that when she got off the Drs drugs and became a Christian her issue were healed.

I am happy that she found the saving grace, but, know for sure, the war does not end until we die.



[edit on 2-3-2008 by Siren]

Nice to have you back BigWhammy.

Indeed it was late and you had been at it all day; a very hard thing to do. I know I had to break it off because I was weary and couldn't even think about the subject matter anymore...the thread had been taken so far off base in a number of ways. It can happen so easily.

But it's an interesting topic and well-meaning.

I brought this over from the wiccan thread by enchantress. She was kind enough to respond to my question on how she views drug use. She doesn't use chemicals at all!

description of her magic:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by enchantress62

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
I started a thread on sorcery (sometimes called witchcraft). As the Bible defines it , it involves using plants and roots to alter your consciousness.

I also have learned that he Bible does mention good uses for drugs- plants and oils as medicines. So the healing arts are not condemned.

I am curious about the wiccan take on substances and opening oneself up to the influence of dangerous spirits.

lol I don't use drugs of any kind. Hell Tylenol puts me to sleep for 3 days! I don't drink more then the occasional glass of wine if the occasion calls for it. I think in the last year that's probably been in the rhelm of like 3 or 4 glasses. I will tell you this, if you put yourself into the right state of mind, you don't need drugs or any substance to accomplish maraculous things. The human mind is capable of things we can't imagine, and we use so little of it. There's information on that and I'll see if I can find it and post it up later.

reply to post by Siren


From that article I posted,

Bio-psychiatry has a creed, the creed is that all problems of life are the result of so-called chemical imbalances. Any professional or individual challenging such conception is branded a heretic and subject to sanction.

People without a faith really are left to the mercy of these guys. They may not consider a problem might to be of a spiritual nature. Evolution and science has become a religion basically. In their faith humans are no longer image bearers of God but are mere animals, so they are treated like animals. Life isn't sacred.


reply to post by idle_rocker


Hey ! Glad to be back and back on topic as well!

reply to post by Bigwhammy

Originally posted by adigregorio
Now, smoking would indeed damage the so-called temple. However, eating the plants, which according to these scriptures is allowed, would not. I imagine that is why it is used in medical treatments.

I didn't misinterpret, just wanted to clear that up.

What about the aspect relating to chemicals and synthetics that are hidden in our food and drinks we purchase and consume. Do these not change our bodies genetic structure, as well the shots they encourage and sometimes force us to take.

Though that is somewhat misleading because for many using roots and planets and flowers work wonders for healing their aliments. i.e. tea for example or protecting cuts from infections, ect.

If you believe in that passage would you be against visiting a doctor for conventional treatment, essentially that is the same thing, though done in a more technical fashion.