The Sorcery Conspiracy

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by rizla

 

guess what smart guy? There's such a thing as common courtsey too.
This is ATS you didn't even read the thread before you mouthed off on the Bible.

Oh yeah This is ATS theres a button called IGNORE I don't have to talk to you or respond to harassment about my faith. C'ya your ignored!!!

Originally posted by rizla
How do you know God didn't give us plants to alter our mind? That's a pretty big assumption on your part.

This is how I entered this thread. How is that 'mouthing off'? In any case, I wish you no ill. Peace.


[edit on 1-3-2008 by rizla]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

I am just choosing not to discuss that issue. I am discussing the teaching of the Bible on drugs. I've worn myself out here at ATS discussing God with atheists etc. You can believe whatever you want.

Nothing personal I am just tired of it...

Meee tooo...I just don't see the point of it any longer. Athiests don't believe the Bible anyway so there's no reason to quote it to them. It's their loss not ours. I am just not interested in the A vs C bashing any longer. While I'll do anything to help anyone, I just am not interested in the personal attacks that become of it, and I'm just so sorry some people have no interest in any point but their own. I try to keep an open mind about everything, but when I'm attacked personally for what I believe, it's time for me to leave.

Sorry your post got hijacked, Biggy. But you know how it is...anything that has anything to do with the Bible brings out the hate mongers.

Man, this thread has gotten way too offtopic and developed into a flame war.
I'm a leavin' this one.

Peace,

-Jimmy

reply to post by idle_rocker


The devil doesn't like when we get together and build one another up. I have been doing the work of an evangelist here for a few weeks. When I made this thread I put that note at the top. I invite all faiths but the topic is not our faith. Its a topic about the Bible and it's translation of the word Sorcery.

If you read the thread I dicussed the issue with a pagan and requested she post the teachings of her esoteric works that warned against opening ones self to spirits... I thought it was of interest that even witch craft warns of intoxication!!! she didn't oblige but I did invite her too- because sorcery is the topic!!! so I'm not intolerant I am weary....

I am sick to death Of the bible is a fairy tale blalalalalala zeitgeist blah blah

If you are doing good work and hurting the cause of evil. Expect opposition. It is a sign you're on the right track! !

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by idle_rocker

 

The devil doesn't like when we get together and build one another up. I have been doing the work of an evangelist here for a few weeks. When I made this thread I put that note at the top. I invite all faiths but the topic is not our faith. Its a topic about the Bible and it's translation of the word Sorcery.

Yes, I read the entire thread before posting, as I always at least try to do.

If you read the thread I dicussed the issue with a pagan and requested she post the teachings of her esoteric works that warned against opening ones self to spirits... I thought it was of interest that even witch craft warns of intoxication!!! she didn't oblige but I did invite her too- because sorcery is the topic!!! so I'm not intolerant I am weary....

I am sick to death Of the bible is a fairy tale blalalalalala zeitgeist blah blah

If you are doing good work and hurting the cause of evil. Expect opposition. It is a sign you're on the right track! !

Thank you for the encouragement. I am a bit weary too and probably spending too much time on ATS...lol

I simply must try to do better.

reply to post by jimmyjackblack

I have some friends that have graduated from Bible college with masters degrees, they can take the original manuscripts and translate them, they know the history of the bible better than you or I and they are still convinced that it is the Word of God.

If I can read the Elven language from 'Lord of the Rings' does that make me an Elf? How about Klingon? Does that mean I am from Star Trek?

If you claim something as fact, be prepared to provide empirical evidence to support it. The ability to translate bible stories is not convincing evidence. Many stories were written throughout human history. Some of which had some historical events sprinkled on.

There is not a shred of reliable evidence that supports a flat earth, giants, unicorns, or talking animals depicted in the original bible. If your god exists, why doesn’t he just show himself? All arguments about his existence would cease immediately.

Why hide from us? Oh, I forgot, he supposedly sent 1 man more than 2000 years ago to tell us about him. If that story isn’t illogical then what is?

On the subject of sorcery; man has always been an explorer and knowledge is neither good or evil. It depends on the practitioner and how they use their abilities. Science itself would be considered sorcery by the religious fundamentalists if they had their way. But I guess they enjoy their TVs, computers and cars too much.

Jesus himself (if he existed) provided mystical teachings in the bible and claimed anyone can do miracles in his name! If this was true, James Randi would have lost his 1 million dollar reward a long time ago.

reply to post by idle_rocker


Thanks I really shouldn't have responded at all to them that are intent on just disrupting a topic.

Oh well... sorry if I acted up.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Just keep the topic of the thread going and ignore the rest. It's the only way, I think.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by crestone

 

I could spend time refuting your remarks. But I won't.

I anticipated this sort of response didn't you see the first thing I wrote?

Note: I am a Christian. The topic of this thread is not my faith or anyone else's. This is a conspiracy theory involving the suppression of a Biblical teaching. If that bothers you please have some courtesy just read another thread. I welcome people of all faiths to share insight into why this teaching might be suppressed.


There are plenty of threads trying to discredit Christianity and the Bible already up. Perhaps you should go and post in one of them.

Thanks for the post, sorry if I ruined your buzz.
[edit on 3/1/2008 by Bigwhammy]

OP,

You just validated my suspicions about your "God complex". (Please see my post on page 4.) Fortunately you don't make the rules here on ATS. Any member has the right to question your assumptions and wild claims about scripture.

I did not stray off topic. I believe that I actually went straight to the core. Your unwillingness to deal with it speaks volumes. You, my friend, are exhibiting text book symptoms of a religious fanatic.

Anyway, ignorance is bliss. I wish you a happy life.

Love

reply to post by idle_rocker


The typical response when questioning religious followers.

reply to post by nikolat23


Well I'm sorry you feel that way, but your observation of me is absolutely incorrect. Since you don't know me, the only thing you can do is classify me into your preconceived notion of religiosity.

Because I don't wish to argue does not mean I am closed-minded. To the contrary, I am a very open-minded individual if you care to read any of my other postings. Not taking your bait.

Right now, I am just tiried. So if you don't mind, I'll ignore your preconceived notion and follow the thread of this topic as it was originally intended, which was not to argue any religion vs any non religion, as the OP stated in his opening remarks.

Magic, sometimes known as sorcery, is a conceptual system that asserts human ability to control the natural world (including events, objects, people, and physical phenomena) through mystical, paranormal or supernatural means. The term can also refer to the practices employed by a person asserting this influence, and to beliefs that explain various events and phenomena in such terms. In many cultures, magic is under pressure from, and in competition with, scientific[1] and religious[2] conceptual systems.

en.wikipedia.org...

In Dan. 2:2 it is the rendering of the Hebrew mekhashphim, i.e., mutterers, men who professed to have power with evil spirits. The practice of sorcery exposed to severest punishment (Mal. 3:5; Rev. 21:8; 22:15).

www.biblicalproportions.com...

The image of the beast, it is an image, looks real but, is not (hallucinogen). As stated again, “the beast that was and is not”.

The question then, would be: what would cause this: “it is the number of a man”. It is of human origin and a man made artifact.

The method man uses: sorcery, magic, witchcraft through the use of evil spirits.

Sickness:
Ancient description: infirmity, disease and lunatic = bugs
Modern description: disease and virus, superbug, lyme disease, etc.

The bugs are infected and deposited on people by evil spirits sent by MAN. The reference tag remains even though they call it by another name.

Science: under the microscope what do they see: BUGS

So what do we say about those pests (bugs): “Stop bugging me”.

reply to post by idle_rocker


It's funny how Christians get accused of pushing their beliefs on others. The thing is even if we do, it's because we genuinely don't want people to go to hell, it is done out of caring about folks.

Now if we have a discussion like tonight - then we get assaulted and called ignorant and intolerant etc etc. are they doing that out of love?

Why do atheists feel the need to evangelize --- pure mean spiritedness

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Well, like I said, let's just keep to your topic. Some honestly don't know there is a pleasant way to disagree. It's my understanding that this is the intention of ATS...to provide a place for people to investigate conspiracies, differences, and things of the unknown. It's human nature to attack when one feels backed into a corner, so we all just need to learn to be more sensitive in our responses to others. Not trying to preach here...it's just what I think this site is about.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by idle_rocker

 

The devil doesn't like when we get together and build one another up. I have been doing the work of an evangelist here for a few weeks. When I made this thread I put that note at the top. I invite all faiths but the topic is not our faith. Its a topic about the Bible and it's translation of the word Sorcery.

Yawn. And then you followed by saying that the only way to defeat it was by prayer.

Come on. Denial is not just a big river in Egypt.

Originally posted by nikolat23
If I can read the Elven language from 'Lord of the Rings' does that make me an Elf? How about Klingon? Does that mean I am from Star Trek?

What does Hebrew/ Chaldee and Greek have to do with star trek and elves???

If you claim something as fact, be prepared to provide empirical evidence to support it. The ability to translate bible stories is not convincing evidence. Many stories were written throughout human history. Some of which had some historical events sprinkled on.

Manuscript evidence

The original manuscripts of all 39 OT books have long since been lost. This presents a crucial concern: With no original documents, not even fragments, can we reconstruct them from the oldest manuscripts available? Can we be confident that, over time and numerous copies, the original texts have not been altered, or even lost? Extensive research and close analysis of many ancient manuscript discoveries have yielded much information about the reliability of the copying of the old manuscripts.
Papyrus, Parchment and Scrolls

Failure to preserve the original texts and the very limited number of ancient OT manuscripts (a manuscript is literally “a hand-written copy”) is the result of the perishable writing materials. Most common was papyrus, a type of paper made from the papyrus reed. In a dry climate papyrus is stable, but in more humid conditions the material is easily destroyed and lost within a few centuries.

The scribes were meticulous in copying the manuscripts;

How Accurate Was the Copying Process?

To preserve the integrity of the OT its text had to be copied onto new scrolls again and again through the centuries. The undertaking was assigned to devout Jews known as scribes. A scribe was considered a professional person in antiquity. In the absence of printing as known today, people were trained to copy documents. Scribes reverently believed these scrolls were the very Word of God; thus they were extremely careful in copying. They were not hasty or rapid in their work. In fact, they trained for long years, working up from an apprenticeship. Their penmanship was meticulously checked and rechecked for error. Even slight errors would cause their work to be rejected.

From generation to generation a succession of scholars and scribes were charged with preserving a standard Biblical text. During the early Middle Ages, scribes that copied the Hebrew Bible were called Masoretes. The Masoretes were charged with preserving the sacred OT texts during the period from 500 to 950 AD. These Jews were meticulous in their copying. The earliest complete copy of the Hebrew Old Testament dates from this period and is called the Masoretic Text.

There is not a shred of reliable evidence that supports a flat earth, giants, unicorns, or talking animals depicted in the original bible. If your god exists, why doesn’t he just show himself? All arguments about his existence would cease immediately.

Honestly! WHO believes in a flat earth?! There is evidence for giants;
They might be giants!l
Unicorn is just a mistranslation

answersingenesis
The word used in the Hebrew is ראם (re’em). This has been translated in various languages as monoceros, unicornis, unicorn, einhorn and eenhorn, all of which mean ‘one horn’. However, the word re’em is not known to have such a meaning. Many Jewish translations simply left it untranslated, because they were not sure which creature was being referred to.

Archaeology has in fact provided a powerful clue to the likely meaning of re’em. Mesopotamian reliefs have been excavated which show King Assurnasirpal hunting oxen with one horn. The associated texts show that this animal was called rimu. It is thus highly likely that this was the re’em of the Bible, a wild ox.

It appears that the reason it was shown in Assyrian (but not Egyptian) art as one-horned was as an artistic way of expressing the beauty of the fact that these horns on the rimu/re’em were very symmetrical, such that only one could be seen if the animal was viewed from one side. The first to translate the Hebrew Old Testament into Greek probably knew that the rimu/re’em was depicted as one-horned, so they translated it as monoceros (one horn).

The real re’em or wild ox was also known as the aurochs (Bos primigenius). This was the original wild bull depicted in, for example, the famous Lascaux (Cro-magnon) cave paintings. This powerful, formidable beast is now extinct, though its genetically impoverished descendants lived on as domestic cattle. For more information, see the feature article on the aurochs, ‘Recreating the extinct Aurochs?’ in this issue of Creation magazine, pages 25–28).

Science itself would be considered sorcery by the religious fundamentalists if they had their way. But I guess they enjoy their TVs, computers and cars too much.

Great strides in science were accomplished because of Christians!
Samuel Morse, the American who invented the telegraph and Morse code, astronomer Johannes Kepler, French chemist, Louis Pasteur, Isaac Newton,
and don't forget The Wright brothers!

Jesus himself (if he existed) provided mystical teachings in the bible and claimed anyone can do miracles in his name! If this was true, James Randi would have lost his 1 million dollar reward a long time ago.

We weren't given the gifts of the spirit to be paid for it!

reply to post by idle_rocker


Well I for one did learn soething tonight because elisha4u ws able to come up withose verses in the bible that refer to medicine.

I just found another

Isaiah 1:6

6 From the sole of your foot to the top of your head
there is no soundness—
only wounds and welts
and open sores,
not cleansed or bandaged
or soothed with oil.

so the oil would be a medicine I would think...


Isaiah 38:21

21 Isaiah had said, "Prepare a poultice of figs and apply it to the boil, and he will recover."

So here is some positive use of plants as medicines in the Bible!!

Yes, that's great information. And I noticed you didn't take the bait, wink wink nudge nudge

reply to post by Siren


Siren thanks for that info.

Now the prophets had visions but they didn't use drugs to have them. They were "visions" like dreams and they were from the Holy Spirit.
Like Revelations came form Yeshua to John.

The visions with Sorcery were not form God... when you do psychedelic drugs you have no idea what you're dealing with... it could be good or evil I suppose.