The Sorcery Conspiracy

reply to post by dAlen


Ok I do believe I see your perspective.

I still beg to differ on your '___' argument. It does not excuse THC in any amount because it is not supposed to be there. It's a weak excuse period.

Using that logic... There's a natural amount of sulfuric acid in my stomach already, so I can drink battery acid.

My comments about drugs being sorcery is not an opinion like you keep inferring. It is definition of the Greek word pharamkia. I understand where you're coming from, but that is your opinion. Please understand I get what you mean about sorcery is intentional manipulation, but the scriptures clearly call recreational drug use sorcery. Your opinion is not supported by the scriptures which use pharmakia for what gets translated into English as sorcery. So your argument is with the author of the verses not me. Take it up with the Apostle Paul.

Let's use you perspective on what sorcery is and apply it to drug use. I think you are pointing to the intent behind the act, correct? I see what you mean. Using that standard. If your intention is to get high or catch a buzz. You are not following the Biblical standard of sobriety.





[edit on 3/3/2008 by Bigwhammy]

So let me get this straight. What we're talking about here is the idea that drugs both legal and illegal are Sorcerers? lol or are you saying it's used in Sorcery? I've only glanced over the previous posts in an attempt to catch up, so I may have the conversation totally wrong, but what it looks like to me is that some of you are saying Jesus cautioned ppl about using drugs that led to sorcery?

My understanding of sorcery is that it's right up there with illusionists. That guy on TV, what's his name? Chris Angel Mind Freek, I think that's it. Well he would be concidered a sorcerer. He's tricking your mind into believing you see something you don't, or that you don't see something you do, etc... Well obviously you don't need to do drugs to watch his show on TV, but when he's in action it's very believable. My point is there are many ways to use drugs, both legally and illegally, and they're is many ways to use sorcery, both good and bad.

This is where the Bible fails to communicate to so many ppl. Sorry guys, no disrespect intended, but it's hard to take someone seriously when he's saying in one paragragh, "Don't do drugs that lead to sorcery" and in the next paragragh he's saying "Drink this wine, it's the blood of my father" From a strictly human standpoint, I have to say if I had been there in the room with Jesus when he made those comments, my eyes would be rolling in the back of my head in confusion!

reply to post by enchantress62


In the thread we have established that the Bible does approve of medicines. Plants oils etc.

It's when you use to get HIGH or intoxicated that it comes into what was called sorcery.

See you are laughing over the word sorcery. That's the whole point of the thread.

Enchantress don't take this personally I am going to headline text so everyone will see it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorcery is a bad translation of the original text which read Pharmakia

look at the definition of pharmakia I provided.

It should not say sorcrery it should say drug use. That is my point.



[edit on 3/3/2008 by Bigwhammy]

I wonder if people are missing the point of the thread?

The conspiracy is the bad translation that steals the meaning of the verse in the Bible.

I contend that Rev. 9:21

Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Should read

Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their drug use, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

because the text was written in Greek not English. Where you see the word sorcery was the Greek word pharmakia. (where pharmacy comes from). So sorcery is a poor choice of words.

Please see this page

That has been the main point this thread was about.

People aren't getting it.

I am frustrated.



edit added strongs greek link

[edit on 3/3/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
I wonder if people are missing the point of the thread?

The conspiracy is the bad translation that steals the meaning of the verse in the Bible.

I contend that Rev. 9:21

Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Should read

Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their drug use, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

because the text was written in Greek not English. Where you see the word sorcery was the Greek word pharmakia. (where pharmacy comes from). So sorcery is a poor choice of words.

Please see this page

That has been the main point this thread was about.

People aren't getting it.

I am frustrated.



edit added strongs greek link

[edit on 3/3/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Good morning OP,

Actually, we the people, are getting it. Thanks for your concern. You are frustrated because we have shown throughout this thread that your point is just silly.

Maybe you should stop the use of tap water and detox your brain. There are many drugs in there. Hint: fluoride, etc.

I say it again: you are exhibiting symptoms of a religious fanatic with delusions of grandeur. You claim to know the "correct" translation of the bible

Love

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Ok, take a deep breath and relax, it's a beautiful thing that we are discussing here. I think though, that in order to get your point across it would be important to seperate the two subjects and then show the ways that each is used in conjunction with each other. I'll have to go back to that old dusty bible to read those quotes from Jesus again, but I think he was trying to say something like this, "Hey guys, you don't need drugs to get close to God. Your brains are fully capable of experiencing him/her/it/them all on it's own, and if you use drugs for this purpose it's only going to interfer with obtaining that objective."

Funny thing is bigwhammy, the ppl in here who keep giving you a hard time really like you, if they didn't they wouldn't give you the time of day. Believe it or not they would miss you if you went away.

reply to post by crestone


Why don't you look at the Greek and tell me what the correct translation is and provide evidence instead of personal attacks.

[Mod edit]

[edit on 3/3/2008 by Bigwhammy]


Mod Edit -Please Review: Courtesy Is Mandatory


[edit on 3/3/2008 by Sauron]

Originally posted by enchantress62
reply to post by Bigwhammy

 

, "Hey guys, you don't need drugs to get close to God. Your brains are fully capable of experiencing him/her/it/them all on it's own, and if you use drugs for this purpose it's only going to interfer with obtaining that objective."

You get it!!! Thank you!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not specifically to enchantress:

Now this part is purely my opinion. I find it very telling that a "witch" gets my point and agrees. And I am getting flack from Christians who use drugs.
That illustrates that they are not arguing the point of the thread (the translation problem I am pointing out). But they desperately don't want to face that the Bible is speaking out against what they think is fun...

Again sorry if I ruined your buzz!
I am denying your ignorance.

Flame on

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by crestone

 

Why don't you look at the Greek and tell me what the correct translation is and provide evidence instead of personal attacks.

Maybe your too stoned?

Dear OP,

I am a baptized Christian who has never used any drugs. I do consume wine and coffee, but not to get high.

My best friend in the world died at 21 due to an overdose of coc aine. He was the most talented musician I have ever played with. I personally absolutely hate the Western recreational use of drugs. Remember I referred to it as "perverted" in my first post, but unfortunately it was beneath you to even respond to it.

This is my last post, because I don't see how I could make you aware of some legit, sacred use of drugs. It is my failure.

Love

PS: Maybe you want to google: Stanislav Grof, M.D., Ph.D.

You know I'm a nurse and right now I work in a nursing home. I have 35 patients on my shift. around 30 or so take a multitude of medications, mostly vitamins and minerals their bodies need, however almost everyone of them is on some form of antidepresant or antiphsycotic medication. Unfortunately it's common in old age to have different forms of dementia which causes a multitude of phsycotic behaviors. Trust me, without these meds those ppls lives are a nightmare.

Anyway, there is a small percentage of these patients that drive you crazy with their constant demands for more drugs. They know how often they can have them and will either call you repeatedly knowing it's not time, or the second the clock reaches the magic hour they are screaming that you are late. lol Mostly the drugs they want are the narcotics, understandably so. It doesn't matter how often you explain the side effects to them, or what it's meant for, they want it, and by God you better give it to them. Funny thing is that most times it's not an addiction to the drugs that get's them going, it's the need to feel that you care. I use a type of sorcery when dealing with these patients.

I take a placebo (sugar pill) in the room with me. Sometimes it's as simple as a tic tac, but while I'm in their room, I sing to them, I ask them questions about their lives, I engage them in jokes or brief discussions. I spend on average about 10 to 15 minutes with these patients, but it does the trick. When I leave they feel validated, and they think I have given them a magic pill. Most times it's more effective then the pill they originally wanted.

There are nurses though that will give the meds early just to shut the person up. These nurses get mad at the interference in the routine. The problem is that the patient is then left with the same feeling that got them screaming in the first place, and so soon enough they are screaming again.

reply to post by crestone


I apologize. But I have discussed verses with"good drugs" for medicine.

So why am I delusional for saying the Bible does not condone getting high.

I asked you to refute my translation because you made fun of it and called it silly. It is not silly.

I said maybe you're too stoned because you attacked me. You didn't make an argument against my point. I assumed you had an agenda to justify getting high.

So why did you say I am delusional for my interpretation? Attack the interpretation not me.



[edit on 3/3/2008 by Bigwhammy]

My whole problem with this thread is it is assumed that the OP can translate better then those who translated the Bible. If what you say is true take it to the Churches, let them know that they are "wrong". Sorcery really means pharmacies, or the like.

How can you claim to know more about the translation of something, than those who specialize in translation? This is looking very much like a thread that bashes drug users. Who is anyone to say what another does is wrong, or right? To do that would imply that one has a better understanding of the world than the other. I will say this again, no one is better, or worse, than anyone else.

If something is "right" or "wrong" that is a personal opinion. Even Jesus saw that. I think the verse went something like this

"If someone considers it a sin, then around them it is a sin."

While I do not agree fully with that, I will say this much. It is a sin to them, nothing more nothing less. What I do with my free time, is no ones business but my own. And that goes for everyone else on the planet.

Sorry for the rant, but the whole "agenda" post kinda upset me. Isn't this an Anti-Drug agenda?

reply to post by adigregorio


It is an anti drug agenda - but only for people who want to follow the Bible. I have made that clear over and over. You can do a PCP enema while smoking crack if you want to, just don't tell me it's condoned by scripture.

Again I contend the translation is wrong and I demonstrated why. I provided sources and evidence.

If you disagree provide your evidence.

[edit on 3/3/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Originally posted by enchantress62
There are nurses though that will give the meds early just to shut the person up. These nurses get mad at the interference in the routine. The problem is that the patient is then left with the same feeling that got them screaming in the first place, and so soon enough they are screaming again.

This indeed is a case of humanity...the ego.
It never is satisfied. It doesnt have to be drugs, it can be sex, food (look at the obesity), television, etc.

Ego is the key, the rest is the tool the ego uses to try to fulfill that which cant be fulfilled, as nothing needs to be fulfilled.

Peace

dAlen

reply to post by enchantress62



That's a really cool story. I used to volunteer in Nursing Homes. I put a jazz group together and we would go play jazz standards and big band stuff for them.

It was amazing that some people would seem catatonic, but when you talked to them they would light up and talk to you. No one ever visits some of them.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by adigregorio

 

You can do a PCP enema while smoking crack if you want to, just don't tell me it's condoned by scripture.

Nature's pocket is exit only for me. As for being condoned by scripture, I will agree I don't remember JC talking about smoking crack, and or enemas, let alone ones filled with PCP.

And I thought the purpose of this thread was

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
My contention is there has been a conspiracy to with hold the true meaning of the Bibles teaching on Sorcery.

Now it is about drugs being condoned by scripture? Methinks the path has been strayed from. What about the begining of my post you were responding to?

Originally posted by adigregorio
...it is assumed that the OP can translate better then those who translated the Bible...

How am I supposed to believe that you are better at translation than the many people that have translated and put together the current Bible? If this is really the "true" meaning of the word sorcery (in the Bible) then why is it not public knowledge? Why is it not preached as such in the many churches I have attended? Why have you not gone to the upper levels in the churches to let them know that what they are teaching is "wrong"? If this is indeed "wrong", how much else in the Bible is "wrong"? (last question is rhetorical, feel free to answer if you want to, it is off topic though)

Originally posted by adigregorio

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by adigregorio

 

And I thought the purpose of this thread was

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
My contention is there has been a conspiracy to with hold the true meaning of the Bibles teaching on Sorcery.

Now it is about drugs being condoned by scripture? Methinks the path has been strayed from. What about the begining of my post you were responding to?

we are getting mixed because of words. It is not about real "sorcery" .
That is my point. It should not say sorcery people do not relate to that any more. In ancient times people would get high with plants. that was called sorcery. Today people get high with plants we call it drug use.

Originally posted by adigregorio
...it is assumed that the OP can translate better then those who translated the Bible...

How am I supposed to believe that you are better at translation than the many people that have translated and put together the current Bible? If this is really the "true" meaning of the word sorcery (in the Bible) then why is it not public knowledge? Why is it not preached as such in the many churches I have attended? Why have you not gone to the upper levels in the churches to let them know that what they are teaching is "wrong"? If this is indeed "wrong", how much else in the Bible is "wrong"? (last question is rhetorical, feel free to answer if you want to, it is off topic though)

This is a board about conspiracies and hidden knowledge etc. I am saying it is a gross misinterpretation. I provide STRONG evidence. Have you even looked at it????

Don't assume I know - look for yourself.

The word they translated to sorcery is pharmakia

Nowlook here cf.blueletterbible.org...

That is Strongs it is the hiughest standard for Bible interpretation it is used by most Biblical Scholars.

I'm saying our translations are outdated - so people are missing the teaching.



edit fix nested quotes


[edit on 3/3/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
This is a board about conspiracies and hidden knowledge etc. I am saying it is a gross misinterpretation. I provide STRONG evidence. Have you even looked at it????

I have looked, and again I ask why not take this to the higher ups in the Church(es)? Surely they would like to begin teaching the "right" meanings.

I'm saying our translations are outdated - so people are missing the teaching.

Again, why not tell that to the higher ups? You might even be able to get a position as the new translator! Since they have it all wrong, and apparently have had it wrong for a long time.

reply to post by adigregorio


Its not so much it has always been wrong. Words change meaning over time.


If I said adigregorio was a real cool dude 100 years ago. They would think you were cold.

It's a case of translation not keeping up with the times. It is a huge text so corrections take a while to catch up.

I bet it has been brought up. I don't know. But this is a message baord about controversies and conspiracies in religion so isn't this an appropriate forum for the discussion?

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by crestone

 

Why don't you look at the Greek and tell me what the correct translation is and provide evidence instead of personal attacks.

Maybe you're too stoned?

[edit on 3/3/2008 by Bigwhammy]

"Maybe you're TOO STONED".

I, for one appreciate the levity!

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One Line or less Responses or "me too" atta-boy comments contribute nothing to the discussion. These include rows of smilies, "you're wrong", or other similar short responses.
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[edit on 3/3/2008 by Sauron]