New Abu Ghraib Images (WARNING: very disturbing)

reply to post by Silenceisall


How's this for some benchmarks- Iraqi Provincial elections in the Fall, greater self-sufficiency for Iraqi security forces to operate autonomously, etc.. Ultimately, there'll have to be a political solution, but we have to make sure that can come about, without any meddling from outside sources that are opposed to a succesful democracy in Iraq.

I suppose the counter to this is to attempt to show American military corpses, all mangled from IEDs and the like...Whatcha wanna bet that some of those images start surfacing too, in an attempt to justify this inhumanity? Now, who was it saying that America bears no resemblance to Nazi Germany?

Originally posted by stikkinikki
The international community will be demanding war crimes prosecution. Mark my words. We will be hearing about this after the current administration is out of office as they then become much easier to prosecute.

Right...easy to prosecute? Guess you must have missed the fact that Bush and family already have bought their new spread down in Paraguay. Paraguay has no extradition laws mind you, this is where many Nazis fled following the war. Mark my words...Bush is going to get away scott free unless the PUBLIC overthrow him!

[edit on 28-2-2008 by percievedreality]

I'm amazed by the tenacity of the pro-torture camp on ATS, and frankly this exchange is making me feel a little sick. I'm out.

reply to post by Silenceisall


It's not about being pro-torture. It's the amazement at the one-sided fixation that some have, just trying to stir crap up. You'd be amazed at how much better you felt if you spent half as much time and energy looking at things with a positive outlook. You can choose to be a glass half empty or glass half full type of individual. I choose the latter.

Originally posted by BlueRaja
Focusing on our shortcomings, and negative press serves nothing but to give aid and comfort to those that oppose us. It's counterproductive, and keeps emotions high.

Yes because those things that were done are in-humane, and they are being done the by the invading soldiers. Democracy was supposed to be imposed on Iraq on behalf of the invaders. Let's see do these things often happen in US jails? Guards are supposed to stop violence with minimum amount of force. These guys are doing these atrocities for fun! They are smiling beside a dead body!
If I was in that jail I would have no choice but attempt to kill as many soldiers as I can. Even if it meant my life.

Originally posted by ironman433
feel yourself's lucky to have these monsters protecting you. sign waiving idiot's are not the one's that i want killing the enemy ( hehehe ). your either not an american or not very smart fella... THANK GOD you are not in charge of my safety because if you were than those pictures would have me on the end of the dog leash... GOOD DAY SIR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jessep: You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.

"blah, blah, blah..." Those people are sick f's. Their superior officers are sick f's. The Bush admin are a bunch of sick f's. People who support/condone/defend this are a bunch of sick f's.

You do NOT represent America and America would do much better without you and your kind!

[edit on 28-2-2008 by mecheng]

[img]

Plus ca change........

[edit on 28-2-2008 by Bashibozkedi]

[edit on 28-2-2008 by Bashibozkedi]

Double post- Entschuldigung Bitte!

[edit on 28-2-2008 by Bashibozkedi]

Originally posted by percievedrealityRight...easy to prosecute? Guess you must have missed the fact that Bush and family already have bought their new spread down in Paraguay. Paraguay has no extradition laws mind you, this is where many Nazis fled following the war. Mark my words...Bush is going to get away scott free unless the PUBLIC overthrow him!

www.boston.com...

''The executive branch shall construe [the law] in a manner consistent with the constitutional authority of the President . . . as Commander in Chief," Bush wrote, adding that this approach ''will assist in achieving the shared objective of the Congress and the President . . . of protecting the American people from further terrorist attacks."

Some legal specialists said yesterday that the president's signing statement, which was posted on the White House website but had gone unnoticed over the New Year's weekend, raises serious questions about whether he intends to follow the law.

He already got off. He (and the rest) got away with murder. How he is still in office is beyond me.

[edit on 28-2-2008 by mecheng]

Originally posted by ironman433
feel yourself's lucky to have these monsters protecting you. sign waiving idiot's are not the one's that i want killing the enemy ( hehehe ). your either not an american or not very smart fella.
have you ever had to stare down the barrell of your enemy's loaded weapon??? obviously not!! this is what becomes of the people who do that day in and day out . if you think that you can stare death in the face and not become an animal yourself than your not in touch with reality sir... and if you think that your enemy would treat you with any more respect than a dog your wrong there also!!!!!
kind compassionate respectful treatment in the eyes of these radical muslim's is only a sign of weakness and by treating them like the scum that they are won't make them hate us any more than they already do sir..your link with the wonderful sound effects that don't go with the pictures may depict cruelty but it also has to be called propiganda.. THANK GOD you are not in charge of my safety because if you were than those pictures would have me on the end of the dog leash...
GOOD DAY SIR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You may be thinking those soldiers act on behalf of your safety, but they are not. That is just the commercial you rerun in your head put there by policymakers. The war in Iraq has nothing to do with our safety. The people who set it up couldn't care less if you live or die. What they care about is their power and money. Wars are orchestrated since the beginning of time by powersick people, not caring people.

Of course you will find the same monsters on the other side of the fence. The point is that they are no real threat to us, but more to their own subjects.
Look at the powerbalance in the world and you see who is running the show and making the weapons and earning the big bucks.

The truth is that, we cant entirely blame this situation on the soldiers. I mean look at the news, everyday we hear about slaughters and suicide bombings happening in iraq. And then we hear about our soldiers dying. This was happning for the past 5 or more years!, then theres books , movies that show the same thing. In conclusion everything is directed to iraq generally, not just their terrorists. I mean , if you go out side and ask someone to describe iraq in one word , it would ... ( terrorists), they say that only because they hear about it in the news, and movies. And now when we deploy soldiers to iraq, the first thing an average person would say is "lets go kill these ***** " ,
In conclusion what im trying to say is that yeah, this these pictures are disturbing (especially how they smile around a corpse), but hey, its not THAT unexpected!!!
This is a war, people will die ! thats just common sense. From this its pretty obvious on how this situation caused .
Government-> Mass Media --> Movies= Abu Ghraib
So we cant blame the soldiers for their actions,

reply to post by ironman433


Ironman, I think your opinion is pathetic and the opinion of others like you is also as pathetic, you come across in your words as violent and dangerous, and excessively aggressive, you seem from your words, IMHO very similar to those doing the hurting here.
You are stupid enough to suggest that Iraqis are primitive and savage, this is very untrue and the average Iraqi has a higher level of education than most americans, despite the years of sanctions and war, they are more culturally advanced than most americans, most speak several languages, how many can you speak, apart from the language of violence.
You are the savage, you are the beast here. sorry but this is truly my opinion.

The poorest Iraqi is a millions times more enlightened than you are.
What's it like to be you ?

reply to post by ironman433


Sir, it is you that is blind. Have you ever considered that were were that disease, not the cure?

I say we because I am American and proud of it. However, I am not proud of what has become of the USA. I think Eisenhower warned us with his speech in 1961 of the sour turning point of America.

However, we can regain dignity and control.




AAC

Originally posted by Silenceisall
I'm amazed by the tenacity of the pro-torture camp on ATS, and frankly this exchange is making me feel a little sick. I'm out.

Don't worry there are those of us that are agains't that, I'm one.

Blueraja keeps talking about negativity and how you should "ignore" it.

Well we are not choosing to talk about negative things because we simply enjoy it. We are just talking about it because it's the "truth" and this truth is very negative.

We choose to NOT ignore it like you Blueraja, because this is something that should NOT be ignored.

Originally posted by ironman433
your link with the wonderful sound effects that don't go with the pictures may depict cruelty but it also has to be called propiganda.. THANK GOD you are not in charge of my safety because if you were than those pictures would have me on the end of the dog leash...
GOOD DAY SIR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are preaching to the choir in my case. People fail to realize that this needs to be put into a relevant perspective. Sure, it is not nice, it might not even be easy to look at for some, but how bad is this "torture"? The "torture" that we, the United States and allies use is mental, not physical. We do not cut fingers off, castrate, behead, skin, boil, cook, burn, pluck eyeballs out, etc. I am serious, many other nations still do these sick and twisted forms of punishment and interrogation, yet the United States and allies do nothing more than extreme humiliation, sleep deprivation, mental fatigure and fear exercises, as well as various other pyschological manipulation techniques.

When you work around war, and you witness attrocities, it really numbs you to what your average individual could never handle. Posing in front of that corpse smiling might seem twisted to many, but to someone who has seen it day in and day out it is not that big of a deal. I remember when a family member of mine was in the hospital for a very extended period of time once. They were a kid at the time, and they went through what many would find a harrowing experience. Yet, they took it with stride, played around a lot, and managed to joke. The jokes you would hear amongst these hospital bound people would make the average person think "What is wrong with these people, they must be off in their head?" They would joke about illnesses, death, anything and everything that they had experienced and/or been around, and to them it was hillarious and a way to get by. To the outsider, it would appear like they were nuts, and joking about the most taboo of things, however unless you have been through the same situation you could never understand it.

I cannot claim what went through the minds of every single guard in these photos, but I can tell you that it is very, VERY easy to judge them from an outside perspective when you have not been through similar experiences. Labeling these people as Evil is a true disservice, as the true evil lies in these terrorists who can rape, mutilate, brutalize, and behead innocents time and time again, and even laugh while they are doing it. That is Evil, that is twisted, and that is why we cannot simply throw daisies and rainbows at these individuals to solve the problem.

reply to post by ThichHeaded


The North Vietnamese did it as well. You can ask McCain about it. They sure didn't have any problems torturing. It was the liberal media here. For the North Vietnamese, it was about winning.

reply to post by TheAgentNineteen


The problem is much much more widespread. the problem is within all of us, as the doctor has already said in this article. The problem is that you and I are equally capable of worse acts given the right circumstances. The problem is that we are the virus on this planet wiping out ourselves.

Seeing images like these, and then seeing people defend it makes me realize one thing. There is no right, Osama is just another Bush hiding behind a different religion to commit similar crimes. The christians would and have done the same things. Religion is just an excuse to let out the evil that lurks within.

No wonder an advanced civilization outside this planet (if one exists) does not want open contact with psychotic freaks like us.

Originally posted by deltaboy
reply to post by ThichHeaded

 

The North Vietnamese did it as well. You can ask McCain about it.

That's like a rapist saying, other people do it, so I do it.

Originally posted by 2believeor0
reply to post by TheAgentNineteen

 

The problem is much much more widespread. the problem is within all of us, as the doctor has already said in this article. The problem is that you and I are equally capable of worse acts given the right circumstances. The problem is that we are the virus on this planet wiping out ourselves.

Seeing images like these, and then seeing people defend it makes me realize one thing. There is no right, Osama is just another Bush hiding behind a different religion to commit similar crimes. The christians would and have done the same things. Religion is just an excuse to let out the evil that lurks within.

No wonder an advanced civilization outside this planet (if one exists) does not want open contact with psychotic freaks like us.

Just take a moment, and don't be so negative, there are many good people in this world.

Don't take a few bad people and make it all of us.