How many you believe that 9/11 was an inside job?of

reply to post by Attari

Okay, I want you to PROVE without a shadow of a doubt that Osama is responsible....there is no more evidence to prove that it is not an inside job.

No one can prove anything to anyone in this 'debate'. You obviously have strong beliefs as do I. I will not waste my time trying to herd cats.

Why is it that our government did not directly cause the attack? Simply, they did not have to. It was not necessary. There were other people (terrorists) with the motivation and funds to pull it off without our governments help.

reply to post by DINSTAAR


It is true, but do you think the Government wanted it to happen anyways???

reply to post by freight tomsen


Nice post freight .I believe that 911truth is picking up spreed. It will one day reach a tipping point that MSM and our corrupt government can't stop.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by Blaine91555

 

I would also add that the US government and administration then manipulated the events of 9/11 and the emotional fall out to justify their foreign policy.

I think that much is obvious. I'd agree with that.

But I do accept that there is enough contradictory evidence to warrant further investigations.

The only problem would be that some people will never accept the conclusions no matter what. I could take them into my garage, cut a piece of steel in front of them or heat it until it bends, let them see the slag for themselves and they would still claim what they just saw is not possible. How many investigations before we say enough of this nonsense.

We have far more pressing issues that our leaders should be working on rather than proving false allegations to the tiny group of people who believe them. Nobody was ready for 9/11. It had the exact effect al-Quaeda wanted all along I think. Look how its divided part of our country. Thats the exact effect the Terrorists thrive on. Score one for the bad guys every time someone tries to prove Bush did it. May as well send them money to buy bombs I'm afraid.

Moxee knows what's going on. The Revolution isn't being televised. Take up arms in the infowar folks. We're rapidly reaching the tipping point in this global awakening to the New World Order, but there truly is only a small window of time inform the world's population of the NWO/Royal/Secret Society world rule. If you're just now waking up to 9/11, go to my site: www.myspace.com/sheeplerevolt and read "The Secret Society Network" to see who really steers the world and how. Watch Endgame and Terrorstorm, listen to some Alan Watt, then use your intuitive creativity and get in the infowar yourself. Show films to your friends and family, burn dvds, post on message boards, etc. get active! It's encouraging how many people are waking up now... don't be deceived by those who would make you feel marginalized. Can one person make a difference? It's the only thing that ever has.

It is true, but do you think the Government wanted it to happen anyways???

No. The government is the wrong enemy.
I think the people in our government are along for the ride like the rest of us. Bush is a tool, and I think it is likely he does not know how much of a tool he is.

The powers that be (above our government) may have known about the events, but the events were inevitable if you consider how we have treated the Mid-East. The "Islamo-Fascists" were our backup enemy after the cold war if China didn't want to fight. The bankers (for lack of a better term) make trillions if we are at war, at our expense and at the expense of our submissive government.

The US government is directly responsible for its action in the mid-east like the 1953 Iranian coup d'etat, as well as many other horrible acts. This inspired the hatred.

The terrorists had the means and the motivation to do so. They are sick of our meddling, though this does not excuse their actions. But there is no excuse for our governments actions in the mid-east as well.

Originally posted by downtown436
9/11 was an inside job.

Our enemies could use your words to cause harm to us on the world stage. I wonder if you guys ever consider that? I'll bet ya a quarter these threads are watched by Terrorist Groups and our other enemies.

Bush will be gone shortly. There will be no Martial Law invoked. Then we will have a new set of problems to worry about like how high will Obama raise my taxes, why are the Terrorists so bold just because we won't defend ourselves for political expediency and why are millions of illegals pouring across our border and who is going to pay for it all.

I think its time we all focused our attention on real issues instead of those born of paranoid delusions and the opinions of a tiny number of very loud anarchists who make it up as they go along.

reply to post by DINSTAAR


While I don't subscribe to NWO type group controlling everything. I do believe that you are correct about the middle-east being sick of us meddling in their affairs. That has gone on way too much. I honestly think the biggest mistake that was made is how the UN handled the Israelis back in 1949. And since then the UN has been a complete failure in handling the current issues. So yes we should get out of the middle east but the question is what to do next? Let them all fight it out once and all?

reply to post by freight tomsen


Actually the movement is dying out as people realize its mostly anarchist nonsense. Its been months since I heard anyone bring it up other than Paul distancing himself from it.

If you guys ever resort to violence, you become the real problem. There is no Grand Conspiracy. Lots of people are making money tricking others into believing it though. Follow the money! Stop pushing the PayPal buttons to contribute and the whole idea will go away.

It would be interesting to revisit this in a couple of years when none of the predictions come true to see the response then. How many years now and best people can do is holograms, thermite and not a shred of evidence that passes the smell test?

Assuming the author of this thread really is interested in where the opinions of ATS members fall on this subject; I'd like to state that I am extremely skeptical of the various conspiracy theories regarding 9/11 and I tentatively believe that the "official" story of what happened that day is the truth.

However, unlike many skeptics, I don't immediately regard everyone in the truth movement as uneducated, mentally deficient, or misguided. [although I must admit that there are a few specific "truthers" that I may refer to in those terms ] I understand their point of view, I just don't subscribe to it.

I have seen the research. I've digested the plethora of evidence from both sides of the aisle. I've read the testimony of witnesses ad infinitum and while I completely understand how those questions, coincidences and inconsistencies could lead an individual to believe in one of the various conspiracies but for me they fail to do so.

In the end, it comes down to the fact that despite ALL the questions that are raised about that day, I have yet to find an explanation, that in my mind, describes and/or explains the events of that day better than the "official" story.

I'm am not looking to debate the pros and or cons of my position, nor that of yours. I don't feel that this is the thread for that and in all actuality, like many of you, I have pretty much already made up my mind. In the absence of any new indisputable, utterly objective, evidence contrary to my views no amount of argument is liable to change it.

I respect the Truthers' absolute right to their opinions and again, I can even understand their point of view and admit that there is a possibility that I am wrong. I just wish more of those in the truth movement respected my and other's right to not believe just as strongly.

So no Attari, I personally don't believe that 9/11 was an inside job. Mark me down as one for the negative column. If that make me a sheep in anyone's eyes, then all I can say is...

BAAAAA!!!

-Cypher

Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by WraothAscendant

 

They create enemies, real and false, that we need ‘protecting’ from. They create the situations that justify their existence. Without enemies to fight and ‘property’ to protect the government and its military and police become unnecessary. They can’t let that happen so they control society to keep it constantly in fear of some boogeydyman man be it druggies’ criminals, commies, or Muslims. A bit of research and a good understanding of history and you will see the patterns.

Have you ever considered that maybe possibly potentionally these are just byproducts of our existence? I mean, are you honestly telling me that the government creates criminals to keep us in fear? To control us? Or that peace on earth is just a president's call away? ("You know what, I've been thinking about this whole war thing we do to keep the people in fear. Let's call it off. Give Darfur and Bosnia and Iraq and Turkey and Afghanistan and a few more of those African countries a call and tell them to call off their wars. I feel like peace today"). The patterns you find throughout history are the footprint of mankind, a species that began killing long before society came around. To presume that there's a worldwide conspiracy built around your theories to control mankind is laughable. Of course each government must exert some kind of control over its inhabitants or else you'll have chaos. But I would just love to see you fend for yourself ONE DAY in a world without government.

But keep on fightin' maaaan! Down with big brotherrrr duuuude!

reply to post by freight tomsen

Going over everything you wrote...I mean copy and pasted ...would derail the thread, but everything you brought up has been covered extensively on this board and elsewhere. There are so many flaws in what you just pasted, it would be difficult to know where to begin (especially since that is a bit outdated. Like with the claim there were no bodies. That has long been proven to be bunk. Pictures of some of the bodies are widely available.)

I encourage you to do a little more research.


McKennalite:

How can anyone claim that there is no possibility that anyone within the governance structures of the United States was involved with the events that transpired on 9/11?

Do you folks that honestly and truthfully believe that put all of your faith in the Keane Commission Report?

How else could you believe that there is no way, not a remote possibility, that anyone in government was involved?

You don't have to believe the Commission Report to believe the government did not carry out the attacks (note I said, did not carry out. Not that they weren't responsible.) There were dozens of terrorists attacks prior to 9/11. Terrorists are perfectly capable of carrying out a terrorist attack by themselves.


Nola:

I find it quite ironic that being called a truther is considered an insult.

Well I think it comes from the fact that a lot of so called "truthers" out there aren't searching for the truth at all. They're just searching for a way to blame the government. If the "truth" was that the government didn't carry out the attacks, do you think they'd admit it? Of course not. Because it doesn't fit their "truth."


EndofFile:

Sorry bub, but its not irrelevant. Because if you believe in the 9/11 conspiracy then you must believe that either Bush is stupid and was lead around by the powers that be. Or he is a super genius and took part in the planning of 9/11 for whatever reason. Like it or not Bush would HAVE to be involved in some way. And most of time (not all) but most of the time many 9/11 believers think Bush is stupid.

So which is?

Could be neither. That wasn't the point. Hannah Montana could have been president. Point is something like 9/11 isn't just doesn't happen overnight. With the planning, the airtight coverup, and the execution...something like this would have started well before Bush even thought about running for office.

[edit on 25-2-2008 by ThatsJustWeird]

Originally posted by Blaine91555
There is no Grand Conspiracy.

It would be interesting to revisit this in a couple of years when none of the predictions come true to see the response then.

I disagree that there is no grand conspiracy, but I agree that it will be interesting to revisit this in a couple of years when we have a North American Union, an Amero, and encroaching world government. For those of you just finding out about 9/11, it's deeper than Osama, and it's part of an agenda towards world government (under the UN), world military (UN/NATO), and world banking/currency (IMF/WorldBank).

“The New World Order is not a 'conspiracy' in the strictest sense of the term - it is an agenda. The agenda is orchestrated by a power elite that thinks it has the divine right to commandeer total control of your life. But who are 'they'? Who are the 'power elite'? The UN, the EU, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Bilderberg Group, the Trilateral Commission, the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds, the Royal Institute of International Affairs, the Club of Rome. The list goes on and there have been many books written that cover the history of these groups and how they connect to each other … The agenda is a worldwide consolidation and centralization of power into the hands of an all-encompassing World Government. This system will evolve from the European Union, (already in place) the American Union, (derived from NAFTA) and the Asian Union. When these three models are in existence, they will be merged together to create the One World Government.” -Paul Joseph Watson, Order Out of Chaos (8-9)

“I would emphasise that I am exposing an Agenda, not a conspiracy as such. The conspiracy comes in manipulating people and events to ensure the Agenda is introduced. These conspiracies take three main forms: conspiring to remove people and organisations that are a threat to the Agenda (the assassination of Diana, Princess of Wales); conspiring to put people into positions of power who will make the Agenda happen (George Bush, Henry Kissinger, Tony Blair, etc.); and conspiring to create events which will make the public demand the Agenda is introduced through problem-reaction-solution (wars, terrorist bombs, economic collapses). In this way all these apparently unconnected events and manipulations become aspects of the same conspiracy to introduce the same Agenda.” -David Icke, “The Biggest Secret” (13)

When confronted with a conspiracy of this magnitude, many say it is impossible because someone would have spilled the beans. If there was a huge global conspiracy for world government, someone would come out and say something. The fact is that Congressmen, Senators, secret society members, and Illuminists themselves have publicly stated and written entire books about what they are doing! When asked how the American people would respond to the inconsistencies of the JFK assassination/Warren Commission report, CIA director Allen Dulles simply said, “The American people don’t read.” The conspirators know the general public doesn’t read and the books they write don’t attract popular readership.

“The past record of man is burdened with accounts of assassinations, secret combines, palace plots and betrayals in war. But in spite of this clear record, an amazing number of people have begun to scoff at the possibility of conspiracy at work today. They dismiss such an idea merely as a Conspiratorial View.” -Political Commentator G. Edward Griffin

“The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.” -FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover

The New World Order is already nearly complete with the United Nations increasingly assuming the role of world government; the world court already exists in the Netherlands; NATO is in place to expand into the world army; World Bank/IMF are centralizing banking; and Union currencies like the Euro and the coming Amero are consolidating world currency. The European Union has centralized Europe, The North American Union (SPP) is now underway, and so is the Asian Union (APEC). The end result and stated mission is global government under the unelected communist-based United Nations. They want to have one all-powerful world King/President with a world army at his disposal. They want a top-down system of global governance that dictates world law from a centralized body and complete interdependence of all nations, economically, politically, and militarily.

“The New World Order system of world conquest has always been visible, but it is so hulking and massive that it has remained hidden in plain sight. One of the most common pre-conditioned responses I hear from the average compartmentalized individual is that there couldn’t be a society of people working for world government. Those in denial proclaim, ‘It’s too big… it would unravel… they couldn’t keep it hidden…’ The average person judges the world according to their moral compass. Because most individuals are not ruthless, sociopathic control-freaks, they cannot even begin to fathom the dark gulfs that are the souls of the servants of the global elite. The New World Order is a synthesis of the survivors of empires, of super-merchant families, of barbarian kings, of banking families established in the middle-ages, and of the royal families of Europe. Over time, they have learned that if they can simply conceal the true magnitude of their power and install puppet rulers from the cultures they dominate, the people will accept greater forms of tyranny. In the late 20th Century, as the formation of a true world government entered its final stages, the globalists began to do what was unthinkable just a few years before. They began to admit that there really was a move towards a New World Order, complete with a World Court, World Taxes and a World Army to enforce its despotic laws. Just a few years ago, the average man on the street refused to even admit the possibility of a world government. Now that same individual will bellow, ‘Yes, there’s a world government – and we need it to protect ourselves from terrorism!’ The globalists’ plan is so far along that now they must admit that world government is a reality. Their propagandists are hailing the New World Order as the only system that will keep us safe and secure. In reality, it is the world government itself which is conducting the terrorist acts.” -Alex Jones

reply to post by EndOfFile

Let them all fight it out once and all?

If we are going to be the police of the world we should expect to be at war indefinitely. It sounds bad, but it is absolutely true.

Sorry to go off topic, but the agents are coming out now. Notice one of the detractors screen names is Capn' Crunch, CC=33 numerologically which is the Masons number. Another detractor has the picture of an Eagle which he will say is because he's American, but is really because he's a Mason, and Eagle's are important symbols to them... much more important than to some regular Joe who claims to be a patriot. Patriots don't coincidentally choose names with 33 encoded and Eagles, then come and call true patriots like myself a 'conspiracy theorist'. Watch them detract from everything I'm about to expose about 9/11 and the NWO, not with hard facts/info like I'm giving you, but sad attempts to sway you emotionally.

[edit on 25-2-2008 by freight tomsen]

In June 2002, Lt. Col. Steve Butler, the Dean of the Defense Language School in Monterey, California, claiming he was forced to train lead hijacker Mohammad Atta, wrote a letter to the editor of the “Monterey Herald.” He also wrote regarding Bush’s prior knowledge and motive for the attack, stating, "Of course Bush knew about the impending attacks on America. He did nothing to warn the American people because he needed this war on terrorism. His daddy had Saddam and he needed Osama.” He said that the 9/11 events were engineered to work the American people into a frenzy which would in turn allow the Bush administration to further its political goals. After making that statement he was suspended from duty and motions were made to court marshall him under Article 88.

“Why would the globalists in control of our intelligence community orchestrate such
terror? Right after the attacks, Bush’s approval rating went from forty-five percent to
ninety-plus percent. The U.S.A. Patriot Act, which effectively eviscerated the Bill of
Rights and the Constitution, was passed, radically expanding the scope of the already
colossal police state complex. Their cashless society, compact city, control grid is
accelerating into place as Americans scramble for ‘security.” -Alex Jones, “911 Descent into Tyranny”

“Indeed, it almost seems to be a requirement or admission into public discourse to announce that one rejects conspiracy theories. What is the logic behind this thinking? It cannot be that we literally reject the very idea that conspiracies occur. We all accept conspiracy theories of all sorts. We accept a conspiracy theory whenever we believe that two or more people have conspired in secret to achieve some goal, such as to rob a bank, defraud customers, or fix prices … It is false to suggest that those who allege that the attacks occurred because of official complicity are ‘conspiracy theorists’ while those who accept the official account are not. People differ on this issue merely in terms of which conspiracy theory they hold to be true, or at least most probable. According to the official account, the attacks of 9/11 occurred because of a conspiracy among Muslims, with Osama bin Laden being the chief conspirator. Revisionists reject that theory, at least as a sufficient account of what happened, maintaining that the attacks cannot be satisfactorily explained without postulating conspiracy by officials of the US government, at least in allowing the attacks to succeed. The choice, accordingly, is simply between (some version of) the received conspiracy theory and (some version of) the revisionist conspiracy theory.” -David Icke, Alice in Wonderland and the World Trade Center

reply to post by Attari


No doubt in my mind elements of the US government were involved.

The connections between the CIA and Al Qaeda are too clear, along with the Taliban. We just so happened to 'attack' both factions shortly after 9/11.

Too suspicious.

The Pakistani intelligence agency ISI and the Israeli intelligence agency Mossad almost surely had some involvement.

Ask yourself, who would gain from the WTC attack?

Israel, military-industrial complex, politicians.

Anyone else?

Oh man, I just read more of these posts. You guys are all morons. Seriously. The U.S. orchestrated 9-11 to attack countries in the middle east so that, presumably, we would somehow make more money off of oil (or some such ridiculous argument). First of all, do you even know how much war costs?? The costs of those wars AND the orchestration of 9-11 would offset ANY PROFIT the U.S. government would make from invading Iraq.

Not only that, but let's just look at this honestly for a second. You're the U.S. government and you want to create an event that will allow you to invade another country and have your people's approval to do so. Hmmmmm....

Option #1: Four hijacked planes ram into important U.S. buildings (oh yeah - one never made it. Which makes no sense since there's no video of the pentagon plane hitting and yet they claim it did. So, by the same token, what would stop them from lying about the fourth plane hitting something?? But I digress).
Cost: ~$500 million - $2 billion

ORRRRRRRRRRRRR

Option 2:
Create a fake report that Iraq is planning to blow up Los Angeles with a nuclear bomb and if we don't go over there right away and do something about it, 8 million people are going to die.
Cost: ~$1.17 - 10 bucks

And for all of you who try to say that nobody would ever believe that scenario well, hmmmm, according to you they bought terrorists taking over planes, ramming them into buildings, and knocking them down. I'm sure the old "someone's about to attack us" idea would be a tad easier to swallow.

Sersiously guys. Think about what you're saying. There are about 1000 other scenarios the U.S. government could've done to acheive the same objective that would've been exponentially cheaper.

Face it, your conspiracy theories make no sense.

reply to post by ThatsJustWeird


You are absolutely right, for something like 9/11 conspiracy to occur, it would have had to start way before Bush was in office. Does that mean that Clinton would have been involved? How far back can you take the planning stage? Mind you I still don't buy into the 9/11 conspiracy but how long did it take the "powers in charge" to plan the whole thing out? If you believe in the whole line of the towers were brought down by explosives then were those said explosives built into the super structure? That would have taken some serious planning. Or how about the great hologram theory. How long would it take to build the technology that would cause the people present that day to believe the illusion?

reply to post by CaptnCrunch


Outside your insulting the other members, I think you made some valid points there. The money factor is a very important part and something I haven't seen many 9/11 believers bring up.


Nice job.