Ronald Weinland (nothing yet...)

Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib_2
As I mentioned, the hebrew is specific as to gender, it says the two witnesses are males.

Zechariah 4:14
Then said he, These are the two anointed ones[hebrew: sons], that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.

So this would disqualify RW + wife as the Two Witnesses.

And as I mentioned, that is incorrect, the hebrew is not always specific to gender. It is also the word for children. Every time we see things declared to the "children of Israel", is this only to thier males? of course not. Look through the old testament at all the times where it talks about the Lord declaring his law and sabbaths to the "children of Israel". It is this same word, bni. These sabbaths and laws were not simply for the males. Even when talking about lambs and kid goats, it uses the same word.

As an example, here is what strong's concordance says of the meaning of bni ....

1) son, grandson, child, member of a group
a) son, male child
b) grandson
c) children (pl. - male and female)
d) youth, young men (pl.)
e) young (of animals)
f) sons (as characterisation, i.e. sons of injustice [for un- righteous men] or sons of God [for angels]
g) people (of a nation) (pl.)
h) of lifeless things, i.e. sparks, stars, arrows (fig.)
i) a member of a guild, order, class

reply to post by sdtietge


Greetings.....Notwithstanding Gods will my intention is to survive and that will require doing what ever is necessary. My first order of business would be to go before God and seek wisdom,courage and a healthy portion of mercy.

reply to post by doctorex


Greetings Doctorex......The hebrew is almost always prejudice with respect to gender....Part of Jewish law is a seperation of women from any thing to do with the Rabbinical function and that includes interpretation of the scripture...

I think we're looking too much into the gender issue of the two witnesses. I think we need to take a step back and look at what's going on. Do I believe RW? I can't say that I do but since the 17th of April we've had an earthquake on the New Madrid fault, a series of tornadoes rip through the Tidewater area of Virginia, and California has been set on fire again. Does it mean anything? I don't know but I bet Weinland is salivating right now.

Here is the "resume" for the Two Witnesses
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.


To sum up the Two Witnesses have:
1) power over rain
2) power to turn water to blood
3) power to send plagues


Since their ministry is typed on Elijah and Moses
They have their pick of
Plague of fire (whether the fire from their mouths is literal or figurative is immaterial, the deaths are real physical deaths, and the deaths are immediate NOT at the end of the 3 1/2 years...that would be pointless)

Or

Their pick from the 10 Plagues of Moses
Plague #1: water to Blood
Plague #2: Frogs
Plague #3: Gnats
Plague #4: Flies
Plague #5: Plague on Cattle
Plague #6: Boils
Plague #7: Hail
Plague #8: Locusts
Plague #9: Darkness
Plague #10: Death of the Firstborn

These are to be announced (like Moses did) and pronounced upon particular nations, and God will "back them up" (the Two Witnesses) as it were and execute the miracle.

It's NOT going to be, like this...
A fire occurs somewhere, and then you state AFTER THE FACT...that that was a plague sent from God.
God has NEVER done it this way. He announces the punishment BEFOREHAND then HE fulfills it.

It's the end of week #2.
So far NOTHING even remotely resembling the scenarios like with Moses or Elijah have occurred.
Nor will they occur over the next 45-90 days.

I am glad to hear that you are so sure.Like I said ,I have my doubts.I can read scripture as well as the next person, and I have yet to totally believe him.But I still am going to be vigilant.I would rather stay vigilant and wary then be so sure of myself that god hardens my heart to the point where I won't believe it when it does happen. It is up to God how he wants to reveal things, not me or anyone else.

Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib_2
To sum up the Two Witnesses have:
1) power over rain
2) power to turn water to blood
3) power to send plagues


Since their ministry is typed on Elijah and Moses
They have their pick of
Plague of fire (whether the fire from their mouths is literal or figurative is immaterial, the deaths are real physical deaths, and the deaths are immediate NOT at the end of the 3 1/2 years...that would be pointless)

Or

Their pick from the 10 Plagues of Moses
Plague #1: water to Blood
Plague #2: Frogs
Plague #3: Gnats
Plague #4: Flies
Plague #5: Plague on Cattle
Plague #6: Boils
Plague #7: Hail
Plague #8: Locusts
Plague #9: Darkness
Plague #10: Death of the Firstborn

These are to be announced (like Moses did) and pronounced upon particular nations, and God will "back them up" (the Two Witnesses) as it were and execute the miracle.

It's NOT going to be, like this...
A fire occurs somewhere, and then you state AFTER THE FACT...that that was a plague sent from God.
God has NEVER done it this way. He announces the punishment BEFOREHAND then HE fulfills it.

It's the end of week #2.
So far NOTHING even remotely resembling the scenarios like with Moses or Elijah have occurred.
Nor will they occur over the next 45-90 days.

You're basing that on your own assumptions, and in doing so, limiting God. God can do whatever he wants and doesn't have to follow what you believe he should when that is not explicitly stated in scripture. RW said on the 19th (?) that he had prayed for more earthquakes in the US. How many earthquakes have the been in the US since this date? Reno swarm, California, IL, didn't you guys even just have another 7 pointer in Alakska a couple of hours ago? If you read up about the Reno swarm, they have been getting stronger, scientists say this is unusual, and that they could be precusors to a big event. Yet you say nothing has happened. He has also previously mentioned the destruction of trees and grass, and fires pop up and you say this is after the fact? Be patient, your big one is coming.

[edit on 2/5/08 by doctorex]

reply to post by Meggido


Meggido, hi! Your post caught my attention and, I clearly see what you are saying. One can remain vigilant and speak out with certainty concerning the likes of Mr. Weinland, without having to fear that God will harden their heart or perception, regarding the end times.

Jesus said of the end-times, “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.” Else where Jesus made the statement that these false prophets would be numerous and likewise, those deceived by way of these false prophets would be just as numerous. Of course, the closer we approach the actual time of the end, we know that these false prophets will be wide-spread; and we can understand why, when asked by His disciples regarding the end-times, the first thing out of Jesus’ mouth was, “Take heed that no man deceive you.[Matthew 24:4].

Unfortunately, here we are, Ronald Weinland is but one False Prophet among many, and yet, people are not heeding the warning of Jesus. I find it strange, the number one sign regarding Jesus’ return is not being heeded.

I am not afraid to say that Ronald Weinland is, as Jesus described, a ravenous wolf, disguised in sheep’s clothing, appearing humble, perhaps meek. If anything, he is an extortionist, using judgmental threats and fear as a base to control whoever chooses to play into his hand. I choose not to play into his hand and whatever threats he spews from his pulpit, well, what a man sows, yes, he will reap.

reply to post by doctorex


Greetings Doctorex......RW prayed for more earthquakes on the 19th..Iam assuming that was April 19th...Am I to believe that RW,who is now acting in his appointed capacity is now starting to meat out the judgements he has been empowered to do...I must say there has been an unusual amount of sizmic activity over the past few days......Quick Question ??
What do you think of Agela Merkels apology to the Israeli Kenneset for the German atrocities of WW2 and the subsequent placing of a wreath at Vad Vashem.....From what I read in the German media...Looks like she committed political suicide...

reply to post by doctorex





RW has stated (regarding ministers he has cursed) that they would die at the end of the 3 1/2 years. THIS IS POINTLESS.

First of all. The power to "slay at a word", was not meant to be used capriciously.

This power, which will be given to the Two Witnesses, will be given because they will NEED TO USE IT in order to continue their work. It will be used, when men forcibly take hold of them, to kill them or put them in jail, this will necessitate a response, which will involve "slaying the enemy with a word". Now whether the fire is real or figurative is immaterial, I believe it will be real. The world will of course discount even this great miracle and say they learned it from circus fire breathers. The death of the enemy will be immediate (that day), not at the end of 3 1/2 years (as RW states of the ministers he's cursed).

Also the power to turn rivers to blood, will be given to the Two Witnesses, to use AS OFTEN AS THEY WISH (Rev 11:6). In other words, God gives them carte blanche in the use of this power, they DO NOT HAVE TO WAIT ON GOD.

RW will NEVER turn rivers to blood. Because this power is not given to him, and he is not one of the Two Witnesses.



Exodus 7 (King James Version)

15Get thee unto Pharaoh in the morning; lo, he goeth out unto the water; and thou shalt stand by the river's brink against he come; and the rod which was turned to a serpent shalt thou take in thine hand.

16And thou shalt say unto him, The LORD God of the Hebrews hath sent me unto thee, saying, Let my people go, that they may serve me in the wilderness: and, behold, hitherto thou wouldest not hear.

17Thus saith the LORD, In this thou shalt know that I am the LORD: behold, I will smite with the rod that is in mine hand upon the waters which are in the river, and they shall be turned to blood.


Notice....Moses doesn't "wait around" for a river to turn to blood and then say...."See...God has turned this river to blood"
He confronts the leader, tells them what will happen within the next day or next week , tells him what curse is coming. And it comes. He doesn't wait around for months on end, and then when it happens, stands up and takes the credit.

reply to post by jdposey


Greetings JD....You certainly have stated your position plainly and clearly and I must say with a considerable amont of resolve..."For many will come in my name saying that Iam the Christ and they shall deceive many"
My prayer is for wisdom so I may be able to descern....

Let's examine the pattern that God used with Moses and Aaron.
The Two Witnesses ministry is strongly typed on Moses (and Elijah), so let us see what kind of pattern God used.

Pattern:
1) World leader witnessed to
2) Specific Judgement and Curse pronounced
3) Judgement Executed Immediately

1st PLAGUE (water turns to blood)
Exodus 7 (New King James Version)
19 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, “Say to Aaron, ‘Take your rod and stretch out your hand over the waters of Egypt, over their streams, over their rivers, over their ponds, and over all their pools of water, that they may become blood. And there shall be blood throughout all the land of Egypt, both in buckets of wood and pitchers of stone.’” 20 And Moses and Aaron did so, just as the LORD commanded. So he lifted up the rod and struck the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh and in the sight of his servants. And all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood.




Pattern:
1) World leader witnessed to
2) Specific Judgement and Curse pronounced
3) Judgement Executed Immediately

2nd PLAGUE (Frogs)
Exodus 8 (New King James Version)
1 And the LORD spoke to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh and say to him, ‘Thus says the LORD: “Let My people go, that they may serve Me. 2 But if you refuse to let them go, behold, I will smite all your territory with frogs. 3 So the river shall bring forth frogs abundantly, which shall go up and come into your house, into your bedroom, on your bed, into the houses of your servants, on your people, into your ovens, and into your kneading bowls. 4 And the frogs shall come up on you, on your people, and on all your servants.”’”
5 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, “Say to Aaron, ‘Stretch out your hand with your rod over the streams, over the rivers, and over the ponds, and cause frogs to come up on the land of Egypt.’” 6 So Aaron stretched out his hand over the waters of Egypt, and the frogs came up and covered the land of Egypt

Pattern:
1) World leader witnessed to
2) Specific Judgement and Curse pronounced
3) Judgement Executed Immediately

3rd PLAGUE (Lice)
Exodus 8 (New King James Version)
16 So the LORD said to Moses, “Say to Aaron, ‘Stretch out your rod, and strike the dust of the land, so that it may become lice throughout all the land of Egypt.’” 17 And they did so. For Aaron stretched out his hand with his rod and struck the dust of the earth, and it became lice on man and beast. All the dust of the land became lice throughout all the land of Egypt.




Pattern:
1) World leader witnessed to
2) Specific Judgement and Curse pronounced (TO COME AT A SPECIFIED TIME)
3) Judgement Executed AT APPOINTED TIME

4th PLAGUE (Flies)
Exodus 8 (New King James Version)
23 I will make a difference between My people and your people. Tomorrow this sign shall be.”’” 24 And the LORD did so. Thick swarms of flies came into the house of Pharaoh, into his servants’ houses, and into all the land of Egypt. The land was corrupted because of the swarms of flies.






Pattern:
1) World leader witnessed to
2) Specific Judgement and Curse pronounced (TO COME AT A SPECIFIED TIME)
3) Judgement Executed AT APPOINTED TIME

5th PLAGUE (Livestock)
Exodus 9 (New King James Version)
5 Then the LORD appointed a set time, saying, “Tomorrow the LORD will do this thing in the land.”
6 So the LORD did this thing on the next day, and all the livestock of Egypt died; but of the livestock of the children of Israel, not one died.

[CONTINUED]



[edit on 2-5-2008 by SirPaulMuaddib_2]

Beginning to see a pattern here?









Pattern:
1) World leader witnessed to
2) Specific Judgement and Curse pronounced
3) Judgement Executed Immediately

Exodus 9 (New King James Version)
6th PLAGUE (boils)
8 So the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, “Take for yourselves handfuls of ashes from a furnace, and let Moses scatter it toward the heavens in the sight of Pharaoh. 9 And it will become fine dust in all the land of Egypt, and it will cause boils that break out in sores on man and beast throughout all the land of Egypt.” 10 Then they took ashes from the furnace and stood before Pharaoh, and Moses scattered them toward heaven. And they caused boils that break out in sores on man and beast




Pattern:
1) World leader witnessed to
2) Specific Judgement and Curse pronounced (TO COME AT A SPECIFIED TIME)
3) Judgement Executed AT APPOINTED TIME

Exodus 9 (New King James Version)
7th PLAGUE (hail)
18 Behold, tomorrow about this time I will cause very heavy hail to rain down, such as has not been in Egypt since its founding until now.
23 And Moses stretched out his rod toward heaven; and the LORD sent thunder and hail, and fire darted to the ground. And the LORD rained hail on the land of Egypt. 24 So there was hail, and fire mingled with the hail, so very heavy that there was none like it in all the land of Egypt since it became a nation. 25 And the hail struck throughout the whole land of Egypt, all that was in the field, both man and beast; and the hail struck every herb of the field and broke every tree of the field.


Pattern:
1) World leader witnessed to
2) Specific Judgement and Curse pronounced (TO COME AT A SPECIFIED TIME)
3) Judgement Executed AT APPOINTED TIME

Exodus 10 (New King James Version)
8th PLAGUE (Locusts)
13 So Moses stretched out his rod over the land of Egypt, and the LORD brought an east wind on the land all that day and all that night. When it was morning, the east wind brought the locusts.




Pattern:
1) World leader witnessed to
2) Specific Judgement and Curse pronounced
3) Judgement Executed Immediately

Exodus 10 (New King James Version)
9th PLAGUE (Darkness)
21 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, darkness which may even be felt.” 22 So Moses stretched out his hand toward heaven, and there was thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days. 23 They did not see one another; nor did anyone rise from his place for three days. But all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.


And of course the 10th plague...the death of first born.


So here is the pattern God has used...
1) World leader is witnessed to, and of course the people are witnessed to as well.
2) Specific Judgement and Specific Curse is pronounced
3) Judgement EXECUTED IMMEDIATELY OR AT SCHEDULED TIME.

Again, RW conforms to NONE OF THIS. This is a pattern that God uses, this is not pattern I made up, this is how God "operates".
This is the SAME PATTERN He will use with the Two End Time Witnesses.



[edit on 2-5-2008 by SirPaulMuaddib_2]

All of you need to just relax and see what comes our way, there is no use in getting yourselves all worked up! Anyways, how do you know who is right and who is wrong? YOU DONT! nobody does, just think about, NO I MEAN really think about it, how many times in your life have you been wrong and thought there was no absolute way that you were wrong? I know I have a few times in my life. The only reason you are getting so mad is because reality is going against what you were brought up to believe and that goes with everything! Not just ronald weinlands preachings but everything in reality that doesnt coincide with what you believe makes you angry. chew on that for a while. I think you will come to realize after all this is said and done you will have wasted your time and energy on this thread.

Greetings sdtiege.....Well put...Having said that.. I can't count the number of times I have been wrong and for that reason it takes a thread like this to enlighten many such as myself...

Originally posted by theodorej
reply to post by doctorex

 

Greetings Doctorex......RW prayed for more earthquakes on the 19th..Iam assuming that was April 19th...Am I to believe that RW,who is now acting in his appointed capacity is now starting to meat out the judgements he has been empowered to do...I must say there has been an unusual amount of sizmic activity over the past few days......Quick Question ??
What do you think of Agela Merkels apology to the Israeli Kenneset for the German atrocities of WW2 and the subsequent placing of a wreath at Vad Vashem.....From what I read in the German media...Looks like she committed political suicide...

Hi TJ, that was the first I'd heard of it actually. Thanks for the tip

Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib_2
reply to post by doctorex

 

RW has stated (regarding ministers he has cursed) that they would die at the end of the 3 1/2 years. THIS IS POINTLESS.

First of all. The power to "slay at a word", was not meant to be used capriciously.

This power, which will be given to the Two Witnesses, will be given because they will NEED TO USE IT in order to continue their work. It will be used, when men forcibly take hold of them, to kill them or put them in jail, this will necessitate a response, which will involve "slaying the enemy with a word". Now whether the fire is real or figurative is immaterial, I believe it will be real. The world will of course discount even this great miracle and say they learned it from circus fire breathers. The death of the enemy will be immediate (that day), not at the end of 3 1/2 years (as RW states of the ministers he's cursed).

RW never said they would die at the END, so there goes that argument.

Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib_2
Also the power to turn rivers to blood, will be given to the Two Witnesses, to use AS OFTEN AS THEY WISH (Rev 11:6). In other words, God gives them carte blanche in the use of this power, they DO NOT HAVE TO WAIT ON GOD.

RW will NEVER turn rivers to blood. Because this power is not given to him, and he is not one of the Two Witnesses.

Um, excuse me, was it Moses who brought and performed the plagues on Egypt, or was it God? Were they of Moses' design, or God's?

Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib_2
Notice....Moses doesn't "wait around" for a river to turn to blood and then say...."See...God has turned this river to blood"
He confronts the leader, tells them what will happen within the next day or next week , tells him what curse is coming. And it comes. He doesn't wait around for months on end, and then when it happens, stands up and takes the credit.

Did Moses conjure up this plague and perform it, or did God put these words in the mind of Moses to give the warning, and then God performed the plague? You make it seem like all this is Moses' idea and God is just along for the ride. Not exactly how it happened, was it?

Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib_2

Again, RW conforms to NONE OF THIS. This is a pattern that God uses, this is not pattern I made up, this is how God "operates".
This is the SAME PATTERN He will use with the Two End Time Witnesses.

Again, nowhere in scripture does it say the the work of the two witnesses has to follow the exact same pattern of Moses and Elijah. You can bring up all the patterns you like, but all you are doing is simply limiting God to your own beliefs.

reply to post by SirPaulMuaddib_2

Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib_2

This is the SAME PATTERN He will use with the Two End Time Witnesses.

[edit on 2-5-2008 by SirPaulMuaddib_2]

Interesting work on the pattern however, each time God told Moses and Aaron when and what to say along with when and what to do. Let's not forget that when Moses failed to follow God's instructions he was not permitted into the promised land.

The two witnesses are given full reign to strike the earth with plagues as often as they desire (Rev 11/16).

God seems to be using a different method of operation in the days to the two witnesses. Leaving this fact out of the pattern, skews the conclusion you've draw.

Nice history lesson though.

-Enjoy

Originally posted by theodorej
reply to post by jdposey

 

Greetings JD....You certainly have stated your position plainly and clearly and I must say with a considerable amont of resolve..."For many will come in my name saying that Iam the Christ and they shall deceive many"
My prayer is for wisdom so I may be able to descern....

As for discernment, I think it is important to realize that none of us must fall into the error of assuming, that just because an individual rises up in the name of God, we can’t take a stand against that individual. I think there are some who have this fear that if they speak out against Weinland, that implies they are speaking out against God., as if, God Himself will judge that individual. Even Weinland has laid this threat against anyone who mocks him. I tell you, the only power backing Weinland is his craft of using fear as a manipulation to control people and then, attributing God to that source.

When you start fearing men, rather than God, then all you are doing is supplying power to that individual and in the area of religion, when men gain power, they seem to always go beyond the mark and become some prominent biblical character, in the end, becoming an embarrassing public display causing the name of God to be blasphemed among the spectators as well, their hearts becoming more hardened.


[edit on 5/3/2008 by jdposey]