The issue of topics critical of Masonry on AboveTopSecret.com ##UPDATED 2009##

Whether Mason or Non Mason, ALL should be allowed a rebutal, without fear of being censored.

If not, it's a conspiracy

Originally posted by B.A.C.
Whether Mason or Non Mason, ALL should be allowed a rebutal, without fear of being censored.

Agreed. And that is our intent. However, all should also be able to feel free to post their opinions with out responses that come across as an organized gang-up.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
However, all should also be able to feel free to post their opinions with out responses that come across as an organized gang-up.

I think it only comes across as organized because many of the answers are similar. While disparities between Masonic jurisdictions are present and their will always be a indivdual interpertation of certain esoteric aspects of the Fraternity some tenets always remain constant. For example, the addmission of Atheists will always be considered 'irregular' and will be commented on a such.

If a person posts that 2+2=5 and a six people respond by saying, no, it really equals 4, they are not ganging up, they are presenting truth.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
If a person posts that 2+2=5 and a six people respond by saying, no, it really equals 4, they are not ganging up, they are presenting truth.

Pardon me for saying so, but that only enforces the point. Six people don't need to say it. It's true whether said by one or by one hundred. Truth is a sword and shield all its own.

This is just my .02 as someone who happened across the thread and took an interest from an "outside" perspective since I don't contribute to this board, nor do I have any interest in it.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


It would seem then that the only fair, equitable and unbiased answer to this impasse is to allow a Mason on the moderator list for the Secret Societies board. If there are masons on the mods list, then have them monitor more closely their brothers' replies for "aggressive defenses" and moderate appropriately and offer defense of their Fraternity.

I was not a Mason when I joined ATS a while back. But I AM a proud 32* Scottish Rite Mason as of last weekend. I have not been a mason nor a member of ATS as long as many here, but I do have the ability to discern from truth as some see it and just plain misinformation or propaganda as my posts (no matter how few they have been) will show. I would be more than happy to offer my services in such an endeavor, if seen as needed.

Slan

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark
Pardon me for saying so, but that only enforces the point. Six people don't need to say it. It's true whether said by one or by one hundred. Truth is a sword and shield all its own.

Agreed. I must admit I find all the repetition can affect the integrity of a thread. Personally I use stars, and I would encourage everyone to star a good post rather than go right ahead and repeat the message. Quite frankly a post with a number of stars on it stands out far more than a series of repetitive ones.

Star for you TravelerintheDark

Originally posted by keltdruid65
It would seem then that the only fair, equitable and unbiased answer to this impasse is to allow a Mason on the moderator list for the Secret Societies board.

Nice thought, but I think this is counter-productive. Quite apart from feeding the paranoia some members exhibit, I think this is the wrong approach for ATS to take on any topic. There may be masons, non-masons, anti-masons and even brickmasons on this site but we are all first and foremost ATS members and if more folks remembered this fact then dialog would probably be more civil.

reply to post by Trinityman


True, but to keep the vigorous defenses down, it would be good to know no one group was being discriminated against.
Hey, I'm the first to look for conspiracies, but knowing that an informed Brother was on the mods list would help alleviate some of the defensiveness, I think.

Slan

Originally posted by keltdruid65
reply to post by Trinityman

 

True, but to keep the vigorous defenses down, it would be good to know no one group was being discriminated against.
Hey, I'm the first to look for conspiracies, but knowing that an informed Brother was on the mods list would help alleviate some of the defensiveness, I think.

Slan

There is at least one supermod who has a roaming brief and he appears from time to time in the SS section.

Most freemasons who have posted on ATS for some time are well aware that the very nature of the site discriminates against freemasonry in the sense that we are discussing conspiracy theories about it. We are quite comfortable with this natural bias - indeed I welcome it as without it there would be nothing to discuss.

In the past ATS has actually been accused of being run by masons. This site has its own credibility to keep sight of in the wider conspiracy community.

reply to post by TravelerintheDark


It sounds like your suggesting we actually organize and appoint a leader of this mythical group everyone thinks exist as our spokesperson?

I don't post much in this forum anymore due to the acceptance of bias treatment, among other reasons. I don't know the other Masons on the forum, I know some of their opinions, but that's it. I thought that being individuals we where allowed to express our opinions, and correct misconceptions when we see them. But to have this belief sadly reflected in even the staff that to be a Mason and to post with other Masons it is considered "ganging up". Which to us Masons is the most absurd statement. The reasons why some of our posts are identical is quite simply it's the truth.

It's a conspiracy site. I get that. Not complaining about the presence of Masonic topics, hell, without them I wouldn't be a Mason! But I do find the notion that we are in any way shape or form organized, intentionally or unintentionally, very .. concerning.

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
If a person posts that 2+2=5 and a six people respond by saying, no, it really equals 4, they are not ganging up, they are presenting truth.

Pardon me for saying so, but that only enforces the point. Six people don't need to say it. It's true whether said by one or by one hundred.

Yes, but if 60 or 600 who don't actually know any better keep vocally insisting that it's 5, what's the one guy to do even if the truth is on his side? Let 4 be ignored? Let the reputation of 5 be maligned? (you know, it eats babies, promotes the gay agenda (being a Prime number and all), builds obelisks and runs the Denver Airport)

Having been an ATS member much longer than a Mason, I feel that I have a need to post the following.
I AM still a conspiracy buff. BUT, I come HERE to ATS to discuss just that, conspiracies. This is not the only forum on the net. TO DISCUSS MASONIC THINGS I GO TO MASONIC BOARDS. To discuss conspiracy I come here. SINCE I am pretty darn sure that (I personaly am the ONLY Mason involved in taking over the world) then I don't have any reason to (gang) up on those who would think it is actually a bunch of other Masons who are involved in this plot to rule this mudball.
Having said that, I will conclude with this... Why argue when I know I am right. If those who wish to stir up garbage want to do so, let them... I am not willing to give more than a few moments in time to the ignorant (uninformed)
I bid thee all peace and may the MAN in charge (me very soon) keep you in his prayers to the One And Only True And Living Architect of The Universe.
Laters...
MaxxLarge™

blah... never mind sorry...

[edit on 23-6-2009 by jouseroni]

I know Masons then I also know OF Masons and what they are all about. There so happens to be a Masonic lodge here in my town. And i have also went around to some cematarys ans have found a fre graves with Masonic symbols on them. the other day i was at work talking to my co-worker and then proceded to tell him that Masons are devil worshipers and are evil GUESS WHAT !!! he then told he he IS a mason and he told me that he belonged to the local lodge so then i asked him a few questions. He said that he belonged to the blue part and that they have a bible in the lodge. And he deals with international things that are secret. the funny thing is thst hes so low in the masons that he does not what the masons are really about. And I was surprised to see the other day that in the local newspaper that the masonic lodge was hosting an open house type thing and was looking for people to join up

Hey, new to ATS. This thread caught my attention with the Masons topic simply because over Christmas of this year I visited indirect family. My my mothers boyfriend has Italian heritage and each Christmas we visit his parents for porketta and different dishes.

I managed to sit next to his father. (searching for his name on Google since he is associated with the sheriffs department of our county.) I glanced down at his hand and noticed he had on a very unique ring. It had the masonic symbol and some cool designs along the band so I looked up and asked him... "Are you a mason?" which caught him off guard. He seemed so surprised that I knew what the ring meant, which was weird. I'm guessing no one had ever asked him about it before. He confirmed that he was a mason and he had been for over forty years. I had been working at a ring production facility for Jostens, making class rings, so I asked about the design and he told me they get more elaborate over the years. I assumed this involved rank or something. When I asked about it's quality and he said it was the third ring he had received and each ring was at least 20k gold and worth well over 2500$ the he received for his participation, with no cost to himself.

I thought it a unique opportunity to get some info but was cut short at the serving of dinner and prayer. The man and family are pretty religious, and while I didn't manage to speak to him about anything the masons did... I was pretty interesting how shaken and nervous he was that I even brought it up. I hope to see him again and check it out. I'd beg to wonder what the goals of a society would be that is of that size and nature. I may pour some energy into searching online for masonic info about the purpose, or what is involved with membership. Seeing that there are a few masons roaming ATS, I'll put some effort into searching thread on your say and opinions. This was just a topic I've had a recent experience in so decided to check it out, and post what I thought about it.

[edit on 6-1-2010 by Cross8712]

This is a bump to remind everyone that the "Secret Societies" forum is for the discussion of related conspiracies and scandals... as pointed out at the top of every thread in the forum with the following message: "This forum is for the discussion and speculation of conspiracy theories, scandals, secrets, cover-ups and related historical events involving secret societies and related groups."

Please refrain from "general information" threads about various groups in this forum.

Thank you.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I am a little confused here.....Are you saying that Masons cannot post comments debating anti-Masonic posts of others? I would think that such comments, as long as they met the TOS (Love the lite4 version, btw!), would be welcomed, as they would add more information to the debate. That, to me, is no different from other people posting and debating on various topics. Now, I can understand not allowing nasty, rude, or otherwise bad posts, and it seems the site has always done a good job of clearing those, and posting the little signs explaining why. That's one of the things i have always loved about this site. It's a far cry from others I know, where those agreeing with the owner can say and do anything, and those that might disagree are often the target of group attacks, that are almost never properly moderated. ATS isn't like that, and has always seemed a very fair site. I am not in here as much as I would like to be, so maybe I missed something. If there was a thread posted defending Masonry, then I am sure there would be plenty of people posting rebuttals, and debating the issue. By creating such a thread, one would surely be opening themselves to all sorts of comments to the contrary, so what's the issue? Unless someone was spamming the boards with pro-Mason/anti-conspiracy stuff, what are a few comments, that they could not be handled? For that subject, as any other, do we not want open discussion and debate? My goal here is not to defend anyone, or argue the rules, but to simply understand the point of the thread.

[edit on 25-4-2010 by LadyGreenEyes]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Debate's a two-way street, SO.

When we see what looks like an aggressive pile-on from Mason-supporters within threads that are critical of Masonry... that's not even close to two-way... it's an attempt to get a one-way focus.

Your contributions to the topics are always welcome... with the understanding of the environment in which you post AND the Terms & Conditions.

AH! Now that makes more sense! I have seen such activities other places online, and they do not contribute anything. You end up with a string of posts, one person patting the next on the back, and all attacking the one they disagree with, in concert. Very glad this site doesn't allow that! Part of the charm!

What Whitewash says is true, but there are also younger guys joining Freemasonry and middle aged guys already in it. Yes, Masons do more charity and community work than you may think. True. But there is much more to Freemasonry than that. Ritual. What we call Degrees. Although our opening and closing lodge is ritualized. Our meetings are also structured by The Roberts Rules of Order, which, is no doubt shared by City Halls and other organizations.

One should realize that there are hundreds of lodges in each state, province or country. Almost everywhere. You would be surprised. Masons are, for the most part, good men. We would never sanction devil worship or "goat" rituals. In fact, the goat has become quite a bit of a joke among Masons to play with the newbies. All in good fun. We are not keepers of goats.

Now in every lodge there are circles within circles. There are also many other Masonic bodies from the Shriners to Royal Arch to several groups in the Scottish Rite. In this way, Masons from different lodges can meet and become friends. Masonry is like every other group in the sense that just because you are a member does not necessarily mean you will like another member. Some you will naturally have an affinity for, while others you will not. Circles within circles.

It is possible that a few members of a lodge can conspire together to do something that they should not. I believe this to be the case in the Morgan affair. In this way, several more extremist members are guilty, while the lodge as a whole is innocent. Thus, I do not believe that the lodge in Batavia, New York in 1827 in any way sanctioned the disappearance of William Morgan. There are extremists in EVERY group imaginable including church groups, boy scouts, whatever. This is a universal law. So if you are really looking for truth keep that law in mind. There may only be a couple guilty ones among the group.

[edit on 4-9-2010 by Methos777]

Jamal al-Din Al Afghani founded an order of the Eastern Star in Egypt. Interesting stuff

www.mideastweb.org...