The issue of topics critical of Masonry on AboveTopSecret.com ##UPDATED 2009##

Originally posted by Trinityman
This is my cue to ask you what exactly do you mean by "high ranking mason"?

You guys try to sell us on this 'no heirarchy in masonry" bit at least once a day here. Do you honestly think that because you take a third degree in the local lodge, that you are going to have as much influence and power in the organization as say the Grand Poobah of the Grand Militant Lodge of Israel? I laugh at that.
Even a drop of pond sludge has a heirarchy, and those poor protozoa don't even have a centralized governing body in every state in the union and the district of columbia.

None taken Skyfloating, actually I was going to send you a u2u that I appreciate your unbiased approach,I know that this can't be easy for you, and that the SS board is probably a rough one to mod.

[edit on 17-2-2008 by masonica_esoterica]

Alright, Im outta here. Be nice to each other. Keep a coffee-talk atmosphere. Before posting, consider that no matter what viewpoint someone has, its a human with a beating heart sitting on the other side of the computer.

If someone is completely and utterly wrong and evil and ignorant and mistaken...forgive him for he knows not what he says.

Originally posted by AcesInTheHole
reply to post by WhiteWash

 

I'm not saying I believe either side, I'm just sick and tired of people saying things like 'I havn't seen anything of the sort, so it must not exist.'

These petty arguments have kept me from posting as of late in the 9/11 and secret societies forum, and I'm glad to see some changes being made.

Appreciated, AITH; truthfully, anything's possible. Masons are a group of men and mankind as a whole's capable of many things. That said, citing one group as indicative of the whole is a slap in the face to the rest. Many of the things cited as being nasty Masonic behaviours are things done outside of the bounds of 'regular' Masonry, a distinction lost on most. It's sort of like being surprised when Joe Average acts pissy when compared to Hitler, even though they're both homo sapiens.

reply to post by twitchy


Which has what to do with this topic? Please keep to it.

Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by Trinityman
This is my cue to ask you what exactly do you mean by "high ranking mason"?

You guys try to sell us on this 'no heirarchy in masonry" bit at least once a day here.

So, Twitchy. Please answer Trinityman's question. What's your definition of "high ranking mason"?

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Joe Average acts pissy when compared to Hitler..

Of course he does. You really can't resist making that association with anti-masonry can you? We'll go into why that is on another thread soon perhaps, but really, can you blame Joe Average for getting pissy when he sees right through that ad hominem ad nauseum?

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


Let's not. That's for another thread.

Originally posted by twitchy
Do you honestly think that because you take a third degree in the local lodge, that you are going to have as much influence and power in the organization as say the Grand Poobah of the Grand Militant Lodge of Israel? I laugh at that.

Even a drop of pond sludge has a heirarchy, and those poor protozoa don't even have a centralized governing body in every state in the union and the district of columbia.

I think you are missing my point, although you miss it most gracefully

I am trying to find out what people mean by "high-ranking", because this is not a phrase used in freemasonry so it must have originated from outside. Is there are particular "level" that we are talking about here?

Run with me on this one Twitchy. Do you have a viewpoint or opinion on this? Do you know where the phrase might have originated?

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

Let's not. That's for another thread.

Ooops Sorry. Can you bump these posts up to a new thread Intrepid?

reply to post by Trinityman


Just start another one. Better continuity.

reply to post by intrepid

I'm replying to the masons here that have mentioned that they wanted to know what was meant by 'high ranking masons' Intrepid. They seem to have taken the topic in that direction, I'm discussing what has been said on the thread already. That was what we were talking about, right?
Sorry, I'll stay on topic...
Freemasonry is bad.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Before posting, consider that no matter what viewpoint someone has, its a human with a beating heart sitting on the other side of the computer.

Now wait just a cotton pickin' second... isn't that statement in direct contravention with what ATS is all about? Isn't it all about what's not common knowledge - conspiracy theory type stuff? If the mods start saying that there are just humans on the other side of the screen ... What's next?

I'm forseeing a disaster of biblical proportions, Old Testament stuff, with brimstone from the skies, rivers and seas boiling, dogs and cats living together and mass hysteria.

Your pal,
Meat.

[edit on 17-2-2008 by mmmeat]

To the Freemasons posting here, I would advise you to not dignify Twitchy's posts with a response, as he is a KNOWN troll on these forums.Observe how he has tried to derail on several occasions the topic of this thread.For further observance do I really need to remind anyone of the wretched 20 some page Obelisk thread?Don't get sucked into being pulled off topic.

Now can we all please discuss the topic at hand, and take ANY AND ALL descrepencies not related directly to this threads topic to new threads?

Originally posted by masonica_esoterica
To the Freemasons posting here, I would advise you to not dignify Twitchy's posts with a response, as he is a KNOWN troll on these forums.Observe how he has tried to derail on several occasions the topic of this thread.For further observance do I really need to remind anyone of the wretched 20 some page Obelisk thread?Don't get sucked into being pulled off topic.

Now can we all please discuss the topic at hand, and take ANY AND ALL descrepencies not related directly to this threads topic to new threads?

I'm Done.
That's Why.
Carry On.



[edit on 17-2-2008 by twitchy]

The point has been made with reference to ATS policy.

The follow-up discussion is now closed. Please be mindful of the reminders we've provided in this thread, other threads, and the text at the top of every page of every post in this forum.

Originally posted by masonica_esoterica
To the Freemasons posting here, I would advise you to not dignify Twitchy's posts with a response, as he is a KNOWN troll on these forums.Observe how he has tried to derail on several occasions the topic of this thread.For further observance do I really need to remind anyone of the wretched 20 some page Obelisk thread?Don't get sucked into being pulled off topic.

Now can we all please discuss the topic at hand, and take ANY AND ALL descrepencies not related directly to this threads topic to new threads?

This post warned for T&C violations.

2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

.

REMINDER


Nearly one year after creating this thread, we appear to be encountering a reoccurring problem that inspired the need this thread and site-wide U2U announcement.

I've spent most of this day doing something I have neither the time nor inclination to do, peruse recent threads in the Secret Societies forum. As a result, unfortunately, we need to update this reminder.


What I saw:

While I've seen a wide range of inappropriate behavior on "both sides" of the issue as it relates to threads about Freemasonry, I've seen a consistent pattern of behavior that simply has no place on ATS -- apparent organized thread derailment.

Without fail, topics that begin with a critical analysis of one or more aspects of Freemasonry are soon inundated with rapid-fire defensive replies from a select few members. And, those select few members appear to have 95% or more of their focus on those types of posts, within those types of threads... or, rapid-fire atta-boy replies in threads with positive remarks about Freemasonry. In other words, an apparent dedicated single-minded effort.


Freemasonry topics are not alone:

Over the years here on ATS, we've encountered similar problems. There was a time when the "Conspiracies in Religion" forum was overwhelmed with over-zealous christianity apologists. There was a time when the Aliens & UFO forum was overrun with UFO debunkers. There was a time when the 9/11 Forum was overrun with belligerent "9/11 Truthers" and conversely, later overrun with belligerent 9/11 debunkers.

In all cases, we've taken steps to ensure that the core mandate of ATS was upheld: the civil and open debate of topics related to conspiracies, scandals, secrets, and cover-ups. With the examples we provided above, sometimes the corrective action required an additional forum (Religion & Spirituality on BTS, Skunk Works on ATS), and other times it required an unfortunately strict crack-down.


The ATS response:

No, we're not going to create a Freemasonry forum. Unfortunately, it's my opinion that we need to enter a time of strict enforcement to reign in behavior that is counter-productive.

Admittedly, we're skirting and flirting with a very fine line... and this is somewhere I really do not want to go... but feel we must go so that the spirit of our unique discussion format remans intact within the Secret Societies forum.

Leading up to this action, we've already had one temporary posting ban, and one permanent account ban of an individual who was previously banned back when I first started this thread. It's my sincere hope that we have no more need to engage in any such action... but if we do, it will likely be swift and without warning.


The new guidelines for topics dealing with Freemasonry:

1) The Secret Societies forum is for collaborative discussion regarding conspiracies, scandals, secrets, and cover-ups that are both contemporary and historical. Any new thread not of that nature will be removed.

2) Threads examining attributes of Freemasonry and/or individual Masons that fit within #1 will not be derailed as we've seen in the past. Because of the actions of a select few, we are now forced to make judgement calls on what we feel is thread derailment. First offenses will get an off-topic warning, second offenses by members who have been observed derailing threads in the past will result in immediate account termination.

3) We encourage informed and productive responses from members who are Masons in topics critical of attributes of Freemasonry. However, such responses must be on point and very-specific, with details that aid collaborative discussion, to the opening post and/or general evolution of the thread. Personal attacks, topic-shifting, or even commentary on the nature of the posts from a member who is critical of Freemasonry will be considered fitting within #2 above.

4) No general threads about Freemasonry will be tolerated on ATS. Use the Members Forum of BTS if you wish to relate your personal positive experiences with Freemasonry in a new thread.


Yeah, this sucks:

If you're an overall productive member with a broad interest in many of our topics, but also hold a generally positive view of Freemasonry (or are a Mason), this sucks... and I'm sorry, but our hand has unfortunately been forced.


Thank you, in advance, for your cooperation. I sincerely hope this is the last time I need to pay attention to this issue.

After the Obelisk Thread debacle last year (I worked my butt off researching for that thread), I've been avoiding posting in the Secret Societies forum over the last year or so because of this 'problem'. It's unfortunate as that forum in particular is what got me started here at ATS, and I'm glad to see the problem being acknowleged by others here as well. At least I'm not the bad guy this time
Honestly, I'd love to post in the SS forum again. I have a wealth of information, years of research, and an ungodly pile of masonic literature I recently uh... 'gleaned', hopefully this directive will be implemented and the Secret Societies forum can return to it's rightful contributors, and we can get on with our getting on there without getting gang banged, thread after thread.
Perhaps finally some real light shines on ATS!
Skeptic Overlord!

reply to post by biggie smalls

OUR GOVERMENT HAS ITS OWN AGENDA AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE NOT AT THE TOP OF ITS LIST! ITS VERY EASY TO CONTROL HOW PEOPLE THINK,WHEN THEY DON'T THINK!ITS VERY EASY TO PUT SOEMTHING IN THERE WHEN THERES NOT MUCH IN THERE TO BEGIN WITH.