Americans need to go on strike!

Just another thing he throws in your face O.P., don't listen to him, he knows nothing.

Originally posted by darcon
It does not matter what i say you will not change due to the fact that you already have your mind set, to Follow the Materialistic Side of life. Do you think humans were supposed to work all there life and then Die?

Once again, hypocrite, do not call other people materialistic when you yourself have products and engage in activities that aren't directly related to your survival. You have your computer. You have the internet. You do not need those things, yet you have them any way...hypocrite.

And um...yes. Even at the most basic level of life, everything works to survive. If you do not work, you die. That is the cold, terrible fact of life. Even without the eeeeeeeeeeeeevils of money, you still have to work to provide for yourself.

reply to post by SaviorComplex


They kill so quickly because they have no power to reason....they have no rational self and rely mostly on instinct. Our instincts are our feelings and emotions but they are left for our minds to interpret. How old are you? Just curious.....

Originally posted by darcon
Just another thing he throws in your face O.P., don't listen to him, he knows nothing.

Really now?

I tell you what I do know: she says she didn't learn anything she couldn't have learned being an apprentice. She rages she has to pay back the evil system.

Yet, people do not take on apprentices for free; after the apprenticeship, she would be expected to work for her teacher for a certain amount of time. Of course, if she had followed that route instead, she'd be complaining about that!

Not with some of the Technology the Government hides from the People. If you knew some of the stuff they have hidden from the public. We wouldn't need to work due to the amount of stuff that is already invented behind Closed doors, but of course the government is ALL and MIGHTY, and Trustworthy. pfft give me a break. Western Society is run by 13 Rich Families.

This would never work. The simple fact is the government has already shown that it will side with big business in order to strive to keep the market flowing.

Example 1.) Miners strikes of the 1920's and 30's
Example 2.) Reagan dealing with the flight tower strikes


cheers,

Camain

Originally posted by GUICE2
They kill so quickly because they have no power to reason...

No, you could not be further off.

Let's take the example of wolves. These animals have amazing powers of reasoning. They are highly intelligent. They are caring, compassionate. They will care for fallen or sick pack-mates. They will even befriend animals of other species that are not competitors. But if another wolf or pack enters their territory, woe be to the intruder.

It's because resources are limited. For a pack to survive, it needs x-amount of land and x-amount of prey-animals to sustain it. Another wolf, pack, or another apex predator in that territory lessens the chance for survival of the pack. If the competitor cannot be driven away, then the only recourse, for survival of the pack, is to kill.

reply to post by SaviorComplex


You miss the whole point when someone says to release yourself of the superficial material world. THat means that we should not put so much faith in material things like this entire society does. Ever wonder why people start fights after their car accidents? They should be concerend about each other's health and not how their car looks. What about stepping on someone's shoes and they get so pissed at you they might punch you because the shoes are "NEW AND HOT!!"?

Stupid examples but they carry the same message. Man....all this stuff just seems to go over your head because you are so set in your ways. Come out of that box man and lets talk like humans and not act like the animals you think we are.

Seriously.....send me an email [email protected]
I want nothing more than friendship for us.....and if you don't just know that i will not accept you as my enemy.

Originally posted by stellawayten
reply to post by GUICE2

 

People would become more productive actually. I went to college and earned a Bachelor degree. I'm still paying on my student loans. I didn't learn anything that I couldn't have learned being an apprentice. The system profited. It's an ugly system and I'm glad there is someone else that feels the same. It gives me a slight bit of hope although I'm running out quick.

I agree. Have studied actually two degrees and went through the machinery. I think I could have learned all the same things in much shorter time as apprentice. But I guess I learned something, now I see how this present system stinks. They have made me clever enough not to buy everything they offer me. Now Im seriously thinking to just look for a simple job, invest minimum time in that and enjoy the other nonmaterial things like family, children and friends.

I live in Europe so I dont exactly know how the things are in the U.S. but I dont need a car because I can take a bus or drive my bike to work (last year cycled 45km per day). I dont also need or have a TV. I can relax with books from local library or with my familymembers or friends. I need my computer to do my work and ATS gives me enough action to replace one bad hollywood movie that I miss by not owning a TV

So I really believe that you can make a difference with your choises. You dont have to jump in to the treadwheel unless you choose to. I admit that I dont want to live in the cave or give up my broadband acces. I mean that we can survive with so much less consumption. And as my field of study is environmental sciences, I do really believe in technological solutions to the recent crisis. With energy conservation and reasonable consumption habits combined to green technology we can live in peace and prosperity without fighting from depleting resources.

reply to post by piiper2


Yeawell its really different in the states.....we dont have recreation unless we have to pay for it. At least up here in New York......beaches arent even free. Figure that one our right? Whoever thinks they OWN the beach is very ignorant. Yet one poster would say " How do you have the beach? Who is working to maintain it? Im sure lots of people are and if thats what it takes then i will rake my own damn sand and help clean if it means we can all enjoy it for free without the pressure of having to pay for it. Cooperation, consideration, love, compassion and compromise will bring us to a new day. Not money and profit....simple conlcusion. How we get there is what should be debated.

By the way...i have no degrees. Knowledge is free.....so everyone should go get it.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by stellawayten
I went to college and earned a Bachelor degree. I'm still paying on my student loans. I didn't learn anything that I couldn't have learned being an apprentice. The system profited.

And ladies and gents, we come to the root of this particular member's greed. TA-DA! She's upset she has to pay back someone, instead of just having it handed to her for free.

You didn't profit? You didn't get an education out of it?

Are you not doing what you love? And who's faults that? Oh yeah, the system! You blame the faceless system because it shields you from taking any responsibility for yourself.

Greed? I'm not angry for the decisions that I made. I learn from my mistakes.

I do not want to make this thread about me. This is not the intentions that I had for this thread.

Complex, I totally get what you are saying about how people are... you are a prime example of it.

reply to post by SaviorComplex


HAHAHA....how can you say im wrong? When do you think reasoning begins and stops? Its about limited resources....so we CREATE technological advances to fix that. The way we arrive at those inventions would be due to the human ability to REASON. I see what you mean buddy but you are still confusing reason with instincts. If the wolves could reason maybe they would see that what is important is the survival of everyone like them and not just their pack. Then of course they would come to the same conclusions as i have...they need infrastructure. Yet they cant build anything due to a lack of thumbs and hands and a full functioning BRAIN and mind that can reason beyond the box, beyond the context. THat is what im talking about.
You almost got it man...keep digging that rabbit hole but im warning you that its pretty damn deep you know? This is why the rabbit ended up in an alternate reality.

Guice there is a beach at the end of my street, the community on the street has to(Even me my friends have done it)go down and clean it after winter. It usually needs to be racked, but the point is the street does it. I guess i am lucky in that retrospect but still. I live in canada, but it is very similar culture wise. The town office comes down like once a year to clean it up, but it needs more cleaning than once a year. People come down from Toronto every summer and Pollute the beach and the park at the end of the street. We the street have to clean it up. On occasion after the people leave to go back up to Toronto, sometimes the town gets workers to clean it up, but that is rarely. We usually have to clean it up. But the point is the street considers it their beach, and like i said i am lucky for that aspect of where i live. Even though we have to clean it up once in a while, we don't have to pay to go down there and swim. I would rather go down there and clean it up than have to pay to swim in a beach that is down at the end of my street. It is not even Private for our street. It is public to everyone which i think is fair, but we consider it our beach, because we take care of it.

[edit on 13-2-2008 by darcon]

reply to post by stellawayten


There is just another thing that I would like to point out about your whole idea that just does not seem like it would be workable.

If everyone quits their jobs as you suggest and have no money, come to live with you where they can help garden and slaughter pigs..once again, nice thought.

How big is your place? Do you own it, or do you have a mortgage? I wonder about this since you will have no money, can you mortgage be paid? What about the land taxes? How will those be paid, or do you suppose the government won't collect the taxes in return for a few smoked hams?

My point is, you don't even really own your land even if it has no mortgage. What makes you think the government won't claim it if you don't pay your taxes? Then where are you going to go with all the people you have now told you will help?

Ever thought about that one?

Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by darcon
Just another thing he throws in your face O.P., don't listen to him, he knows nothing.

Really now?

I tell you what I do know: she says she didn't learn anything she couldn't have learned being an apprentice. She rages she has to pay back the evil system.

Yet, people do not take on apprentices for free; after the apprenticeship, she would be expected to work for her teacher for a certain amount of time. Of course, if she had followed that route instead, she'd be complaining about that!

Actually I was referring to an apprenticeship in the monetary free system we are dreaming up.

I'm curious as to how old you are as well.

I have got to quit responding to this guy.

reply to post by darcon


forget it dude...you cant explain outside the box thinking to some people because they choose to disregard it. you however have the power to spread this message but be careful not to divide yourself from anyone, not even your perceived enemies.
peace darcon.

If you remember, in the novel "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand--John Galt and all the "Producers" in our society withdrew their services as a revolt against the encroaching Socialist political regimes that were taking over the countries in the world. If this strike could be organized to include enough people--it probably would have a significant impact.

Originally posted by Enthralled Fan
reply to post by stellawayten

 

There is just another thing that I would like to point out about your whole idea that just does not seem like it would be workable.

If everyone quits their jobs as you suggest and have no money, come to live with you where they can help garden and slaughter pigs..once again, nice thought.

How big is your place? Do you own it, or do you have a mortgage? I wonder about this since you will have no money, can you mortgage be paid? What about the land taxes? How will those be paid, or do you suppose the government won't collect the taxes in return for a few smoked hams?

My point is, you don't even really own your land even if it has no mortgage. What makes you think the government won't claim it if you don't pay your taxes? Then where are you going to go with all the people you have now told you will help?

Ever thought about that one?

The point I was trying to make was that there have got to be more people than me that are willing to pitch in and take care of each other. And honestly, when I made my original post I wasn't considering this to be a long term thing. Possibly a month or so... just long enough to break the government/corporations. It is nice to dream of it being long term though.

And yes, my family has over 3,000 acres that we could possibly sustain life on for quite some time. It is paid in full so I guess we would actually have a year before we would be expected to pay taxes.

Will do Guice, i will head the warning, i just don't understand why some people are so attached to the materialistic world when there is much more out there. But that is just my opinion.

[edit on 13-2-2008 by darcon]

reply to post by Enthralled Fan


Enthralled....i hope you realize that pointing out the implications of such a revolution of thought and their negative impacts in this society do not disproove the fact that the system needs to be reworked. How about the fact that no one OWNS anything except themselves and their thoughts? How about that....build a society off of that ideal and we will be better off. So what you really mean to say is that we need to find a way to convince government of all this right? Since governments should be made up of the people and for the people there should be no problem right?
WRONG.....when you subscribe to a world without profit that is full of love and cooperation you are automatically an outkast from this society. Is that right to you? To be shunned and persecuted for wanting world peace? If you were too hung up on money then it wouldnt matter to you because you would take all of this as laziness....which is laughable and is such a cop out in the place of reason. Im not saying you are enthralled....im using the general YOU and not singular you.
It starts with us though man....it all starts with us.