NORTHCOM Ready To Implement Martial Law

Originally posted by lostinmadness

U.S. citizens will always have habeas corpus - it's guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution.

You are joking, right? The good olde BODY OF EVIDENCE was clearly taken away by the Illustrious P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act. You do realize that right? What with the F.B.I. being able to write it's own search warrants at the time of the search, and now trying to make it illegal to sue big Telecommunications companies for letting the F.B.I. listen in on our "private" conversations, and read our emails and text messages, and postings on forum boards, HABEAS CORPUS - CORPUS DELICTI, what I mean is a crime has been committed with our Constitution, and it seems that there really isn't that much anyone wants to do about it but talk on some forum some where. Make plans to protect your families, friends, neighbors, and people who will have problems protecting themselves; from our Government!!!!!! Sorry I am way off topic from the O.P. Sorry, Thank you for your time.

Gee ... it sounds like you have no idea at all what habeas corpus is.

Might want to check that out before you post next time, as your argument is moot since it has absolutely no relevance to what you quoted.

Good luck in all your future endeavours, and remember that an education is important to your success.

Your pal,
Meat.

reply to post by mmmeat


I would be glad to look at any references you have where martial law was declared for rebellion or invasion where the writ of habeas corpus was still in effect.

Bush stole two elections, I am beginning to believe he can do anything. The sad thing is we all sit back and let it happen. Where are the good old days when we took to the streets, got arrested, overwhelmed the system, provoked real change. Once Marshall law is in effect we'll finally all have a good reason to just sit in our little houses and complain.

reply to post by mmmeat

Perhaps it would be more constructive to share some of your superior education instead of just making snide condescending remarks to a fellow ATS member.

I'll fill in:

Habeas corpus is a concept of law, in which a person may not be held by the government without a valid reason for being held. A writ of habeas corpus can be issued by a court upon a government agency (such as a police force or the military). Such a writ compels the agency to produce the individual to the court, and to convince the court that the person is being reasonably held. The suspension of habeas corpus allows an agency to hold a person without a charge.

From This:www.usconstitution.net...

reply to post by mmmeat

This might help with the rest of the tterms in question:

Corpus delicti (plural: corpora delicti) (Latin: "body of crime") is a term from Western jurisprudence which refers to the principle that it must be proven that a crime has occurred before a person can be convicted of committing the crime. For example, a person cannot be tried for larceny unless it can be proven that property has been stolen. Likewise, in order for a person to be tried for arson it must be proven that a criminal act resulted in the burning of a property. Black's Law Dictionary (6th ed.) defines "corpus delicti" as: "the fact of a crime having been actually committed."

In the Anglo-American legal system, the concept has its outgrowth in several principles. Many jurisdictions hold as a legal rule that a defendant's out-of-court confession, alone, is not sufficient evidence to prove the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. A corollary to this rule is that an accused cannot be convicted solely upon the testimony of an accomplice. Some jurisdictions also hold that without first showing independent corroboration that a crime happened, the prosecution may not introduce evidence of the defendant's statement.

From: en.wikipedia.org...

And I know the wiki is not accepted for formal reference - but I humbly submit it for this forum.

If we're declaring martial law nobody told me! I haven't been issued orders, ammo, or anything. The least they could do is buy me some sweet new 5.11 stuff. Girlies dig the tac gear, ya know!

Originally posted by Witness2008
Bush stole two elections, I am beginning to believe he can do anything.

As long as you keep believing that fallacy, you're never gonna be able to have a reasoned argument. Gore and Kerry obviously don't share your opinion, and they had far more at stake than you. Spare me the - "they were in on it" theory. Once this term is up, Bush is gone from office, though I imagine you'll have come up with a new theory by that point to replace the current one.

Originally posted by Witness2008
Bush stole two elections

Nope.

If you actually believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell ya, cheap!

Your pal,
Meat.

Originally posted by kerontehe
Perhaps it would be more constructive to share some of your superior education instead of just making snide condescending remarks to a fellow ATS member.

While it's obviously - and quite clearly - true that I do have a superior education (that goes well beyond staying at a Holiday Inn Express last night) to some, you're mistaken in believing that I made snide or condescending remarks to a fellow ATS member.

In case you missed it, I was responding to a member. Said member spoke arrogantly in reference to something that had been previously posted. I simply responded in kind. It was unfortunate that said member spoke incorrectly and chose to attack me.

A little family history: My Italian mother - God rest her soul - used to say something that I firmly believe applies here: "you treat-a me nice, I treat-a you nice." If you don't treat me with some type of decorum, I will return the favor in spades. My Daddy used to say that the secret to success was to do one thing, and do it really well. So I'm not just an asshole, I'm an incredible asshole.

So, while I appreciate you taking the time to jump all over me for being better at being me than the other member ... I never jump all over someone without them starting it.

Thank you for taking the time to scold the wrong person, and misdirecting your outrage. I have broad shoulders and can easily shrug off a vicious internet attack without even breaking a sweat.

I hope that we can get back to talking about the errant belief that NORTHCOM is doing anything even close to implementing martial law, and the mistaken belief that habeas corpus would be taken away under the current existing laws. The rights of citizens are guaranteed. The rights of enemy combatants should not be; they do not get the right of citizens nor should the be protected under the third Geneva Convention as they do not meet the definition of a prisoner or war as described by the document.

Your pal,
Meat.

reply to post by mmmeat


I would love to buy a bridge, but ubfortunatly this Bush economy has me down. Bush has managed to divide the social classes like no other president, and we've been robbed blind by his corporate buddies and my kids will be paying off his debt to the national bankers and the chinese for most of their lives.

Bush managed to suspend habeas and Posse Comitatus, you can follow the link below for more on that. I'm not saying Bush will institute Martial Law but he managed to sweep all of the protection we had right out from under us.

www.towardfreedom.com...

[edit on 12-2-2008 by Witness2008]

reply to post by mmmeat


My apologies if I failed to feel your motivation at what you felt was self defense.

I too sometimes show a bit of the blade a little quickly.

Hopefully by attempting to show some different viewpoints and sources of explanation to our convictions we can at least agree to adhere to street rules.

Hopefully this will shed more light:

Insurrection Act

The Insurrection Act governs when the President can declare a form of martial law. When the act is invoked, the military, including the National Guard, can carry out law enforcement functions without the consent of a Governor. Posse comitatus, a broad law that generally prevents the military from policing within the domestic United States, does not apply when the act is invoked.

Until the “Insurrection Act Rider” was enacted in the fall of 2006, U.S. law focused on enabling the President to invoke the Insurrection Act during violent situations where the states or local communities were resisting lawful orders. The intent of the law, as the title suggests, was to deal with insurrection from individuals or groups. The law was not designed to address other situations, including natural disasters, or attacks from outside the country.

Under the new language, added to the law in the fall of 2006, the President can invoke the act and declare martial law in cases where public order breaks down as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, terrorist attack, or under the nebulous term of “other conditions."
This change makes it easier for the President to invoke the Act in cases beyond an insurrection – cases which were not intended under the previous purpose of the Act. With these succinct but sweeping changes, the President now does not have to contact or collaborate with any state agency in taking control of the Guard and injecting federal military forces, to carry out patrols or make arrests. The President has to notify but not explain to Congress that he or she believes that states cannot handle the situation.

These are from:leahy.senate.gov...

...and more recently this announcement:

Bush Signs Bill Enacting Leahy’s

National Guard Empowerment Reforms,

And Leahy’s Repeal Of The ‘Insurrection Act Rider’



WASHINGTON (Wednesday, Jan. 30) -- President Bush has signed into law an annual defense authorization bill that includes key victories for the National Guard that were engineered by Senator Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.), the Democratic co-chair of the Senate’s 95-member National Guard Caucus.

In a difficult and highly unusual legislative achievement, Leahy also achieved repeal of the so-called “Insurrection Act Rider,” attached to the 2006 defense policy bill, which had made it easier for presidents to take control of the National Guard from governors and to use the U.S. military for domestic law enforcement. Last year, in a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing organized by Leahy, key national military and law enforcement officials testified against the 2006 policy change. The repeal provisions in the newly enacted defense authorization act were drawn from another bill introduced by Leahy and Bond. The nation’s governors also unanimously supported the Leahy-Bond bill to repeal the Insurrection Act changes.

Also from here:
leahy.senate.gov...

All of course still subject to much wrangling and interpretations.

Not a very easy topic to get a handle on.

reply to post by citizen truth

I have to sadly admit that I see your reasoning. If all of the current legislations and interpretations were in place during my somewhat mis-spent youth I would have been at great risk for being declared an "enemy combatant" myself.

But that was very much a different time. What I do regret now even more is with the weakened US dollar and the logistical nightmare that international travel has become, I also do not travel to Alberta or Ontario as I once did for pleasure.

I refuse to meekly surrender to to these assaults on my "persuit of happiness".

IMO the next attack will happen within one year of the new president.

I think were safe until then. However, I would be on high alert when the new commander and chief comes in.

Originally posted by Witness2008
I would love to buy a bridge, but ubfortunatly this Bush economy has me down. Bush has managed to divide the social classes like no other president, and we've been robbed blind by his corporate buddies and my kids will be paying off his debt to the national bankers and the chinese for most of their lives.

Huh. The Bush economy has mre than tripled my income. In fact, people are making more money and buying more goods than at any other time in the history of the U.S.

Bush has managed to unite the social classes like no one before him, and the unemployment rate is lower than it was 10, 20, and even 30 years ago! Thank God for George Bush!

Bush managed to suspend habeas

-- Nnnnnnnope. You link, also, doesn't indicate this.

Your pal,
Meat.

reply to post by Angry Danish


They are taking away our guns and have been actively doing so en mass since Katrina. I too was called crazy and given my official tin foil hat when I expressed my theory of Martial Law the day Bush declared war on Iraq. Frankly I am surprised its not official yet and the 2008 election canceled. It is highly likely we will see another 9/11 red flag op in the very near future (most likely April/May 2008) then it will be called and Bush will become dictator.

Implementing a plan for public revolt is already being carried out in Southern California- there have been numerous air patrols and increased police surveillance. Many military craft have been spotted like huge Naval Helicopters in formation flying over downtown.

It is happening- make no mistake about it.

Study the history of Germany from 1928 to 1949 and you will be shocked and amazed at how similar events are.

They will disarm "high crime" areas first to gain public support and favor.

Anyone with an opposing view will be labeled a dissident and interned in camp away from public view. During this time they will painted as a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer and an enemy of the people. The people who are not in camps will demand all enemies of the people to be exterminated.

The remaining population will demand to be chipped with RFID to distinguish them different from enemies of the people.

At best we are two years away from this ugly nightmare- I think it will happen before 2009.

Very, very sad times ahead.

People, Think about it. Their is no way in the world that Martial Law can be enforced in this country. We have a population of over 200 million. What are they going to do hire millions of Chinese rent-a-cops? We have one Army division here at home, The rest are deployed overseas. Maybe in a few major cities they could try but the whole country? It would never be successful unless all us Americans said OK lets all just sit here on our butts and do nothing while someone plays king.

reply to post by dk3000


If all this doesn't happen like you say, will you own up to your mistake, and recant the assertion?

reply to post by Sky watcher



You're incorrect on 2 counts- the military isn't the slightest bit interested in imposing martial law regardless of how many units are at home-(the military is made up of citizens too, that have family and friends, and lives outside of work). Secondly, there is more than one Division at home. Between Iraq and Afghanistan, there are probably 160,000 Army deployed and 30,000 Marines. The total size of the Army is 500,000+ and the USMC is about 180,000. Granted some are stationed in Europe, Korea, and Japan, along with small elements based/deployed elsewhere. You also have to figure that of that 160,000 and 30,000, you have Army Reserve/National Guard/Marine Reserve, so the actual number of Active duty Army/Marines deployed is less than that.