Israeli Daniel Lewin - Murdered While Battling Hijackers on Flight 11 on September 11th?

reply to post by eyewitness86


Your entire post was 100% specualtion. Please provide a sourse that states that box cutters were illegal on airplanes prior to 911. This is news to me, and I may be wrong.......

It was first reported that the man was shot (Lewin). I don't know why this was said....I will have to look deeper into it. But the story does not change EVERYTIME. This was an initial report on Sept.11 or 12th I believe. It has not changed since (unless you count the stories you guys come up with)

You still have not proven Ivans quote, which is the reason why I am back posting on this thread.

Sorry, missed one: Did you know that the lady that took the ' call ' from Betty Ong, said that it lasted a lot longer than reported:


There is one additional oddity concerning Betty Ong's call. According to Vanessa Minter, the AA employee who has received the call, it commenced "minutes after 8:00 a.m.", lasted nearly 40 minutes and ended at 8:46 a.m. This contradicts other reports that Mrs. Ong rang her up at 8:21:


abclocal.go.com... is the link.

So Betty never says anything about certain parts of the story, repeats what Sweeny is telling her from the front, none of the girls knew if the plane had been taken or not!! Even AFTER Sweeny said that she had ' seen a bomb ', she still was unsure about who was in the cockpit!! No pilots seen, no nothing.

Doesn't it strike people as just a little odd that there is NO verified evidence of anything that was reported on the calls, and most elements have been proven wrong. There was NEVER a mention from the calls of any gun or shots: BUT, if Lewin was shot, then why was he sitting there alive to have his throat slashed? NONE of this makes any sense, and if there ever were hearings with competent and honest people running them, and a real investigator or two, this case could be wrapped in a week.

Capt: Boxcutters have always been illegal on a plane because they are classified as ' razor knives ', and a RAZOR is not allowed, even back then, only a common pocket knife was allowed, but never a razor device.


I just found an interesting bit of evidence I never knew before: Recall the mystery about the " Angel is next " business? That Bush's plane was targeted by an anonymous threat? Well, and some how this is not really suprising considering, but guess WHO was the person that started that rumor, or told the lie, or whatever?

DICK CHENEY !! Thats who!! So Cheney got on the phone and told that story so part of the plan could be carried out; perhaps it was to get King George off to Offfut Air Force Base to hide, which he did. Waiting there was Warren Buffet and a few other billionaires, COINCIDENTALLY there for some meeting.

Dick Cheney stands down the Pentagon defenses, as proven. Now we see that Cheney is the one who began the " Angel is next ' nonsense for reasons that may not be fully known but if Cheney is involved you KNOW it has to be criminal and traitorus.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Capt. I am trying to find the page I saw moments ago that had the info about the boxcuters, it was an article that described the 9-11 commission exhibits and the FAA showed a 4 inch folding knife and asserted that something like that was used, but it is all guesses anyway, as no weapons were ever found. A boxcutter has about a six inch blade that retracts and is razor sharp, naturally. A normal knife is fixed length , less than 4" normally, and are not usually razor sharp, as that is not desirable for most common uses.

I had to repost your post from the last page because it was well written and informative.

People should have a chance to read it.

Thanks you Eyewitness86 for your always informative posts. Stars.

The term "box cutters" was used by the media to characterize short
knives. Before 9/11 these knives with blades less than about 4 in
were allowed on aircraft. As noted below many parts from these type
knives were recovered from Flight 93 in Shanksville.

The blades on most of the new pocketknives are less than four inches long, the maximum length that passengers were permitted to carry onto U.S. airlines before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. In 2004, the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks concluded that the hijackers in those attacks used short knives -- not box cutters -- to seize control of the planes. At the Pennsylvania crash site, 14 badly damaged knife parts were collected, and at least half have tactical-knife characteristics. But the FBI cautions that it can't be sure those parts are from knives that belonged to the hijackers.

In case you don't think they were capable of causing severe/fatal wounds

From same article - Ex marine walking home at night after working as cook - jumped by gang of teenage punks defends himself with short
tactical knife.

Technology has made blade length almost irrelevant. The city of Atlanta prohibits people from carrying pocketknives in public with blades longer than two inches. Yet, in a widely publicized case, ex-Marine Thomas Autry used a two-inch blade in May to kill one mugger and wound another when he was confronted by five assailants armed with a shotgun and a .38-caliber pistol.

1 DOA, 1 critical wounded

Full article:

www.post-gazette.com...

A number of these knives were recovered from Moussaiou and from luggage left behind by hijackers

Trial exhibits







Still don't think the hijackers could have killed/wounded Daniel Lewin
considering were all around him...

When I read or hear the words box cutter, the Stanley retractable blade utility knife immediately comes to mind. Is there some other type of box cutter? Because there was no actual description ever given. Does anyone know what the media or "official" reports actually meant?

shopping.msn.com...

More on type of knife recovered from Flight 93 - hidden in cigarette lighter

A commercially manufactured cigarette lighter containing a concealed knife blade was recovered by the FBI at the United Airlines Flight 93 crash scene in Stoney Creek Township, PA. Although the item was badly damaged, preliminary FBI laboratory forensic examination revealed the lighter was approximately 0.65” in diameter and the butane cylinder was approximately 2 ¾” in length with a knife blade approximately 2 ½” in length. The apparent intended mode of operation for extension of the knife blade was a slide switch near the top of the lighter. Similar commercially available models have spring-loaded blades which extend directly out of the top of the lighter.

FBI laboratory research indicates a number of similar knives are commercially available concealed in other common objects such as pens, keys, belts, belt buckles and lipstick containers. Small items which produce a positive response upon magnometer inspection should be required to undergo radiographic examination.

Originally posted by thedman

In case you don't think they were capable of causing severe/fatal wounds

From same article - Ex marine walking home at night after working as cook - jumped by gang of teenage punks defends himself with short
tactical knife.

If the alleged box cutters were Stanley utility knives, which has never been defined for design of box cutters, perhaps if someone was caught completely unaware or held by force, it could be fatal. Under other circumstances, that would be highly questionable considering their design, including type of blade.

reply to post by OrionStars


The term "box cutters" was used the media - have to understand that
to put it bluntly most reporters as IDIOTS!. Often use incorrect or
wrong terms when describing things. One most be careful when taking
things literally. Correct term is probably "tactical knives" or utility
knives - with blades less than 4 inches. See earlier posts for more
complete description...

reply to post by thedman


So were they box cutters or actual knives? Box cutters normally take razor blades not knife blades. Box cutters do not generally have long blades of any type. They are short bladed and designed to retract for safety reasons. People have a habit of putting them in their clothing pockets when they are working with them.

reply to post by OrionStars


Refer to above posts where knives are described - none of them are
the STANLEY razor types, but real knives. Some of them are of the
LEATHERMAN utility type, can see from picture of one confiscated
from hijackers effects was "neck knife" worn on chain around neck

Cigarette lighter knife shows hijackers used it to circumvent security -
if triggered by magnatomer most security personnel would figure it
for ordinary cigarette lighter unless X -rayed.. Refer to warning that all
objects detected by scanner be x rayed to catch such knives.

Whether or not box cutters were used or a gun one thing for sure is that Daniel Lewin was the 1st to deal with the Hijackers.

Here is the decription again about Mr.Lewin

He'd be more than a match for those skinny little (expletive)," said Brad Rephen, a New York lawyer who grew up with Lewin in Jerusalem. "With his training, he would have killed them with his bare hands."

"I can tell you, their knives would not have stopped him," he added. "He would have taken their knives or their box cutters away and used them against them."

Really

Rephen recalls Lewin's injured hands after he returned from an Israeli anti-terrorist training course.

"They were pretty beaten up from the fighting he did," he said. "He knew how to fight with knives and take knives away from people."

He described Lewin, at about 5-11, 200 pounds, as "thick-boned." He says he witnessed him bench-press more than 300 pounds and squat close to 500 pounds.

"He was very, very strong and had a lot of meat on him," Rephen said. "They couldn't have subdued him by slashing him. The only way they could have stopped him was by shooting him."

Anyone who says he wasnt trained is Obviously ignorant.

He guesses that Lewin, who understood Arabic, sensed something was wrong on Flight 11 the moment he took his seat next to the three terrorists, including Atta, the ringleader.

"He probably picked up that they were on a suicide mission by what they were saying or wearing," Rephen said.

"Hamas and other Islamic terrorist groups put on headbands as badges of their death," he added. "If they put that stuff on, and he saw it, he would have known the ride was over."

And then he would have made his move.

"If I know Danny, when he realized what they were doing, he attacked them," Rephen said. "He probably cursed them in Arabic to scare them, and then he hurt them."

He speculates that during the struggle with Atta and the other hijacker sitting in front of Lewin in row 8, al-Suqami shot him from behind.

Please read the rest here --->www.worldnetdaily.com...

I hope i didnt snip too much. I just thought it was eye opening.

Here is a boxcutter that was presented as 'found' at the flight 93 "crash site".

www.rcfp.org...


I personally would be suspicious of any evidence presented 5 years after a crime.

[edit on 10-2-2008 by IvanZana]

That was the ONLY flight that the government officially claims a boxcutter was used or found. No other flights had any mention of them; instead we get phony bombs shown to Amy Sweeny and mace and people slashed, but never a mention of a gun or boxcutter on any flight but 93.

The first report said Lewin was stabbed, then the FBI says he was shot...now which is it? Believe the ' calls ' from the stew's or the FBI? Both are unreliable as all evidence is controlled by the perps and their minions. No matter how many glaring ' anomalies ' we scream about, as long as the media remains controlled and right wing, with no investigatory journalists remaining alive, except Greg Palast, but even he has to go to Europe to get storis printed about Sibel Edmonds!!

No matter what they say, can anyone really imagine four sets of highjackers having 100% success taking cockpits instantly with crude weapons? Add another hundred facts that the government cannot explain and it starts to add up. There are way too many screw up's in the plan's execution to allow them to escape: Only a media that will not discuss the facts honestly keeps this under wraps.

Originally posted by IvanZana
www.rcfp.org...

I personally would be suspicious of any evidence presented 5 years after a crime.

[edit on 10-2-2008 by IvanZana]

I would be more suspicious of how clean it is once it leaves the plastic and cardboard wrapper. For something alleged to be found in all that dirty air crash debris away from an alleged vaporizing fire, I would be even more suspicious of how clean it still is. What about fingerprints? DNA from someone? Find any of that? If not, why not? Wasn't that supposed to be a bona fide criminal trial?

Utility knives are not knives. They are often called razor knives, because they use a one-sided sharp razor blade, which can generally slice like a knife, but is normally nowhere near as lethal as a knife. I notice they did not show the blade. If they did, it is not that obviously noticeable. Was it done on purpose or not intended that way?

A box cutter like that one is extremely lethal, in the right hands. BUT, remember that with a boxcutter, the longer the blade, the more it tends to break off under any stress. If the blade is short, it is firm and supported by the case. But when extended, the blade is not rigid like a knife blade, it bends easily, as we all know, so if it was out 4 or 5 inches it would likley break if stressed even a little to the side.

In any event, only 93 was found to have had anything like that on it, and for all we know that could have been in a tool kit on the plane or whatever...no one said it was used for anything.

Yes, they can be lethal - if the intent is to slice surface artery close to the surface of the skin. Otherwise, they are not necessarily that lethal, because they do not have a double side or center point to the razor blade, in order to deeply penetrate.

Type of utility knives:

en.wikipedia.org...

I have one similar to that one pictured as "evidence". It is a generic brand I picked up very cheap from a deep discount store. Sliding the blade in and out is extremely difficult on that cheap imitation. The razor blade extends no more than 1" at an angle back at the top. Same with my Stanleys.

Utility knives do not extend to full blade length because they are reversed so both sides of the razor blades are useable. Just flip over the blade and the other side is used, when one side dulls.

Flight 93 is the only flight where the knives were recovered from the
debris - it is also the only flight which did not crash into a building . Thus
did not have building collapse on it or be exposed to intense fires.
Numerous pieces of knives were recovered from the crash scene - they
were similar to other knives found on Moussaoiu and in luggage left
behind by the hijackers. The knives were recovered from the crash debris
as the investigators sifted through the scene and entered in evidence not
five years later as someone claimed

Also on Flight 11 pepper spray/mace was sprayed to keep passangers from following hijackers. Also fake bombs were used to terrorize passengers. On Flight 93 passengers after finding out when was intended
rushed the hijackers.

SOURCE

"Flight 11" survived the North Tower crash ....

...Flight 11 was reported at 9:21 by Washington ARTCC controllers as "heading towards Washington":

Instead, the NEADS air defenders heard renewed reports about a plane that no longer existed: American 11.
At 9:21, NEADS received a report from the FAA:
FAA: Military,Boston Center.I just had a report that American 11 is still in the air, and it �s on its way towards �heading towards Washington.
NEADS: Okay.American 11 is still in the air?
FAA: Yes.
NEADS: On its way towards Washington?
FAA: That was another � it was evidently another aircraft that hit the tower. That �s the latest report we have.
NEADS: Okay.
FAA: I �m going to try to confirm an ID for you,but I would assume
he �s somewhere over,uh,either New Jersey or somewhere further south.
NEADS: Okay. So American 11 isn �t the hijack at all then,right?
FAA: No,he is a hijack.
NEADS: He �American 11 is a hijack?
FAA: Yes.
NEADS: And he �s heading into Washington?
FAA: Yes. This could be a third aircraft.148

The mention of a �third aircraft �was not a reference to American 77.There was confusion at that moment in the FAA.Two planes had struck the World Trade Center, and Boston Center had heard from FAA headquarters in Washington that American 11 was still airborne. We have been unable to identify the
source of this mistaken FAA information. 9/11 report, p.26

That is interesting that Flight 11 was considered "still flying" after an impact in the wtc.


The Air National Guard was informed by the FAA that Flight 11 was still airborne after the North Tower crash:

03:54:35 LT COLONEL DAWNE DESKINS, AIR NATIONAL GUARD

They told us that they showed the American Airlines Flight 11 was still airborne. So now, we're looking at this, well if, if an aircraft hit the World Trade Center, who was that?
www.billstclair.com...

General Myers knew of a hijacked plane, coming from the New York area and heading to Washington:

General Richard Myers, vice-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that before the crash into the Pentagon, military officials had been notified that another hijacked plane had been heading from the New York area to Washington.
www.guardian.co.uk...


[edit on 10-2-2008 by IvanZana]

reply to post by OrionStars


You seen to be fixated on that the hijackers used some kind of "utility"
knife cum boxcutter despite evidence that hijackers possesed straight
bladed knives capable of inflicting severe stab type wounds

The blades on most of the new pocketknives are less than four inches mum length that passengers were permitted to carry onto U.S. airlines before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. In 2004, the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks concluded that the hijackers in those attacks used short knives -- not box cutters -- to seize control of the planes. At the Pennsylvania crash site, 14 badly damaged knife parts were collected, and at least half have tactical-knife characteristics. But the FBI cautions that it can't be sure those parts are from knives that belonged to the hijackers.

Operative words - "short knives not box cutters" "14 damaged knife
parts" "at least half have tactical-knife characteristics"

reply to post by IvanZana
I have several such knives here virtually identical to that one. They have a replaceable blade with ten sections separated by scores in the metal so, when the tip is blunt, all you do is remove the black plastic end and use it as a lever to snap that section off revealing the next razor sharp section. I use them for cutting carpet, linoleum etc. and once I slipped and almost cut a finger off, literally. Needed immediate micro-surgery to re-attach it and repair cut tendons etc. and fortunately got back almost full use of it over several years with intensive physio.

What I note about the knife pictured is it looks like the larger type that has a very strong blade about 1" wide and that one has the blade and the plastic sliding lock mechanism that holds it missing which is very odd because you need to remove the black plastic heel of the knife to get them out. Maybe the blade was removed for forensic analysis of blood deposits but it had to be deliberately removed and the body re-assembled.

Have no doubts about how deadly these knives are - when they actually have blades in them that is.