Forbidden Egyptology

@spacevisitor

That pic above if the cross like indentation in the blocks is a really nifty tounge and groove + swivel mechanism.

When the blocks pull apart from center outward theres a little play until they get held by the metal angled brace/ just that quarter section is similar to an isosceles triangle. The center would look to be a swivel vertically oriented so in and out movement could be withstood. Very cool engineering.
Joe

I'm curious about the Egyptian god Thoth. And I wonder if anyone here could add anything more on him. I'm still trying to get a better hold on when he first appeared as an Egyptian deity, but he is also represented in a few other ancient religions and mythologies:

In Ancient Greece, as Hermes;
In Sumer, as Enki;
In Meso-america(the omlecs, maya, and aztecs), as Quetzalcoatl...
just to name a few...

He is regarded as inventor of astronomy, astrology, the science of numbers, mathematics, geometry, land surveying, medicine, botany, theology, civilized government, the alphabet, reading, writing, and oratory. Source

He was known as the master magician, and the author many important books of knowledge:

It is written in the ancient texts that Thoth wrote a
major work of scriptural importance that would one day be found.
It would explain the nature of our reality and allow you to find your soul's mission.

Interestingly enough, he is also been called the master architect and is said to have played a crucial role in the design and orientation of many famous pyramids, temples and ziggurats. Source

Also intriguing:

According to Thoth, the Great Pyramid and all of the sacred sites in Egypt were built following the geometries of the human body. Just as there are black-light and white-light spirals that come off the human body, so there are similar spirals that come out of the Great Pyramid. One of these spirals used to pass through one end of the sarcophagus that is in the Kings Chamber.

Source


*Open mind suggested here*

I then came across this, regarding a connection between the Fibonacci golden spiral and the Gizamids: Source



The center of the above spiral(which runs thru the apex of each pyramid) is speculated to show the location of Thoth's Holy Chamber(suggested to be the location of Thoth's secret writings) which may lie just inside Hawass' wall, mentioned earlier in this thread by skyfloating.
Check it out:


There's alot going on here but the idea is that Thoth could play a very important role in answering some important questions regarding Giza. Studying him and his origins may provide clues into the major building projects that took place here.

Was he a real person, did he actually exist? He seemed very important to the ancients, being that many civilizations had a version of Thoth in their religions. The Greeks considered him to a very important god.

If Imhotep, who was a real person, can be considered a deity, then it seems possible that Thoth, also a deity, could have been real aswell...where did he come from?







[edit on 18-2-2008 by PhotonEffect]

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by mantic
Was not a large partion of the Valley of the Kings released to public domain from US military control for the last 40 50 years or so?

Certainly not. What an absurd statement.

The U.S. military had no presence in Egypt during that span.

Please try to find facts on your own.Will you please attempt to find the dates of excavations that have occurred over the time span you specified (and earlier?)

Harte

I have been looking but cannot find any statements on the net to confirm this. I can remember back in the 90's just before the time of all those Fox Egypt specials, hearing a report somewhere to that effect. Not the entire Valley, but a certain part of it.
It was a blurb type thing that I found very interesting. That is why I remember. I can be completely wrong, please don't take it as a statement, it was a question, trying to confirm what was in memory.

Thank You for your knowledge.

Originally posted by Harte
Let me say here that these sort of metal clamps were used in Mesoamerica as well, or maybe it was South America.

I have read that the alloy, or the state of the metal, used in the clamps was somewhat anomalous in that to forge that sort of metal requires higher temperatures that is currently believed to be within the technology of the natives that did so.

If this matter has not been settled, then we have here another one of those rarest of things here at ATS, a genuinely anomalous relic from the past.

Maybe someone could look into this and see if this decades-old claim was ever explained away?

Harte

I don't think that one was settled yet. As you said, it is a world wide phenomena that hasn't been explained. How were these people able to melt these alloys, at temperatures thought (by those who do the thinking) higher than any of them were technically capable of. In a mobile fashion to pour them into the molds at that.

Here's a link to some interesting pictures of these joints.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Fair enough, but still, no plans, no mention whatsoever of construction, no inventory's on the materials or 'slaves'. No Building processes of any nature? Hell If I had designed the pyramids, I'd have draped the plans over the monument themselves to to make sure people knew the feat that had been accomplished. I see your point, the Egyptians were a fairly arrogant race and I could fully understand them thinking they were there to stay, yet a race that is known for recording stock, feast days, birth certificates not to mention the feats of past races and yet this miracle of the ancient world was left undocumented, hell they don't even claim it was them who made it until like 200 years after it was built!!

p.s C14 is a dated test now, due to it testing biological materials, which through various outside influences decay faster and slower over certain periods of time it is getting found to be more and more inaccurate and ineffective. They are looking at a new ways to get a more clear reading from these artefact's, yet as far as I know they haven't found any.

thanks EMM

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
I may be remembering this wrong, but plato never once mensions a date for Atlantis, merely states in a time passed, this adds to the speculation that it was an idealistic story that he made up to remind the Greeks of the time how fragile a eutopia can be, and how easily it can be lost (someone cited 9,000 years?)

The Greeks themselves claim that the Atlantis-story originates in older egypt.

I MUST be understanding this wrong, because i see time and again people asking for proof of cultures before Egypt... Assyria, Babylonia...Sumeria?!?! do these mean nothing to people? these have been PROVEN by main stream acrchaeology to have existed, and not only existed, but to have fashion, judicial systems, religious systems, trade craft and many more, they were just like us!! Only older...alot older.
Wall of jericho?? i remember reading that the wall as well as some surrounding settlements (not small villages with wicker huts, but actual mud bricks and mortar) was like 12,000-15,000 years old!!

Modern science predecessor was theology/religion which tried to keep dates within the limits of biblical timelines. This has become more and more difficult as new things are found and they have to keep re-dating and re-writing their books.

As pointed out earlier in this thread, there´s the theory of linear evolution as taught in school, and then there´s the theory of cyclic evolution which does not look like a line from bottom to top but more like a curve...with the rise and fall of civilizations.

Scientists from the university of Osaka had dated the Pyramids they found underwater off their coast at at least 9000 B.C. Some even said the place was above land 40 000 B.C.

Japanese underwater Pyramids

What happened? Quickly teams of western scientists arrived to spread the news that "there are no Pyramids under water" in Japan. Several news articles "debunking" the find appeared.

The majority of Japanese scientists dont agree though. They dont understand why western groups have a vested interest in structures not being that old.

Examine the underwater structures yourself. You will find that calling them "natural structures" is so crazy that its indicative of cover-up.


I´ll leave it to others to adress the rest of your excellent points.

reply to post by PhotonEffect


Hi, if you haven't already, I'd suggest reading Sitchin's work on the Sumerian's, as in his books he draws comparisons of each deity, and it's counterpart in the other polytheistic religions of the time (Assyria, Babylonia, Egypt, Greeks and Romans, as well as the south American and Asian religions. Even goes as far as the bible, although this is in conjunction with events of the ancient world, rather than the affairs of Gods.) he discusses not only the similarity in 'meaning' of names', but also the roles they played in the day to day workings of the culture. alot of Sitchin's work is circumstantial, but I haven't seen anything in the mainstream ideas that has a much better explanation, albeit a bit more down to earth

Alot of his work, I feel, is a bit inconclusive, such as 'the land of the fiery rocket ships' as a description of (Baalbek was it?) and was heavily influenced by the technology that was around at the time, although he did say it may translate into something different, but similar, (land of the fiery stones?) but this does not mean that he is completely wrong, only that he was not sure.

I understand he was received quite aggressively by the mainstream, saying that his translations were' flights of fantasy' and it was all misconstrued to fit into his 'idea', but I have seen a few of these since translated by various sources, and although they differ, they clarify on a few major points.

If you are interested in this topic, I seriously suggest reading his work, it is an interesting perspective on ancient culture and religion, as well as human history itself, and even if you don't believe it, it gives another perspective in which to clarify your own theories and ideas.

(If you don't want to read the whole series, 7 books I think, then the ones which answer your question quite in depth are 'Stairway to Heaven' and 'Wars of Gods and Men', I don't have my scanner up atm, but I will try and scan/post some of his diagrams linking the various diagrams, as I say circumstantial, but more than enough food for thought.)

thanks. EMM

reply to post by PhotonEffect


Thoth is equated to Enoch by some. Whoever has read the books of Enoch will remember the following tales from his books (which were banned from the Bible):

That Enoch was taken on flights with "The Gods" and told to write his books.

That "the Gods" were forbidden to have sexual relationships with humans but that some renegade "Gods" did come down to earth to intermix with humans. (The "Gods" are not described has "a supreme being" but as people with very human characteristics).

That, after the interbreeding, the Gods would destroy the earth and remove all of their technology and left the earth for humans to develop themselves without interference.

That Enoch warned people not to accompany him to the places he was to be "picked up in chariots" by the Gods because it would be hazardous to their health. Those who followed him anyway were later found dead lying under "snow".

And much more. When time allows I will try looking for the text-passages talking of these events.

reply to post by Skyfloating



Sais!!! I remember now, man, its years since I've read up on that, it was a priest in the temple at Sais, he would only divulge the information to outsiders once every 10 years or something, and it was a predecessors of Plato that went (don't think it was Socrates, but I may be wrong), and brought back tails of a great civilization in ages past. If however, the story was that Athens beat Atlantis, and the sea claimed the city as an act of the God's in retaliation for their defiance and arrogance, why would they need to go the Egypt to find this information out, surely the Greeks would've known about this war?? or maybe it's a story, based on facts, to reiterate that the Greeks must pay homage to the God's if they want their Great civilization to stand the test of time.

I think it's time we move out of Egypt to start looking for answers, If we were to find A sphinx in the Sinai peninsula facing west, I believe we have a can of worms that ain't never getting shut, until then, I will just hope people explore further afield, 'Think outside the box'

tanks again EMM

The psychology behind the cover-up

*personal hypothesis*

If you want to control 5 Billion people, you have to make them believe that they are either

a) isolated in an empty universe and the product of dead matter and coincidence or

b) at the mercy of a supreme god that will punish those who dont comply.


By no means can you tell humankind that the universe is teeming with intelligent life since millions of years. This would blow the control-systems of religion and darwinism, it would break the isolation and empower mankind.

This is the psychological background of the cover-up.

It is also the reason that the first author to reach bestseller-status on these topics, long before Hancock, Sitchin, Bauval came on the scene, was silenced by a real-life conspiracy.

This conspiracy was enacted towards the author Erich von Daniken, who in the 70s was lured into a hoax on a Metal Library allegedly found in Ecuador and then beaten down by the same people who lured him, as a fraud and conman. The story of this conspiracy that ruined the guys career and how the press was involved in it is documented with notorial acts and correspondence copies that would hold up in any court of law in Danikens latest 2008 book...which is not available in the English Language and which certain interest groups are again trying to suppress.

I do hope the book is published in English someday because its one of the most massive whistleblowers Ive ever read.

[edit on 19-2-2008 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers


According to the greeks, the story of a pre-deluge civilization was told by the egyptian priesthood. I think it was distorted by the greeks. I dont give any credence to plato at all. We have to go back to the past further...much further.

Everytime someone says "Atlantis" you will hear people immediatly associating it with "Plato". "Official sources" tell us that the story ORIGINATES with Plato. As Ive pointed out in several ATS-Threads, this is wrong. Pure disinfo. Deluge + Lost Civilization (even those carrying other names than Atlantis) stories go back much further than that.

[edit on 19-2-2008 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by Skyfloating


Agreed, if only there were Sumerian tales of a past civilization that was around before them, this would reaffirm our ideas...oh wait, the time of the Gods was said to be ranging from around 495,000 years ago, to the around 20-15,000 years ago, hmmm, Atlantis was rumoured to be a civilization like no other in human history, technologically, spiritually and astronomically advanced...possibilities?

Were still yet to explain were 90% of our DNA comes from, we've mapped it, just need to figure out what the hell it is, and how it got into us!!

Lumeria is a fascinating topic as well, some rumours say it was before Atlantis, others say that Atlanteans were part of the Lumerian civilization who didn't beieve in paying homage to Gaia, so they left, formed there own civilisation, and later went to war with Lumeria over technology that the Lumerians wouldn't share (i think it was Scalar harmonics, although I'm not sure). Check out the Russian Indigo child, extremely fascinating, partially of what he was saying, mostly because he was 7 when he said it, most of us were still learning to read and write properly, and here's this kid talking about lost civilizations on Mars, Earth aswell as explaining in detail the means he got here, sorry, it's off topic, but it is interesting on in reference to this topic of suppresed archaeology, and the possiblities

thanks.

reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers


The idea of Lemuria is empowering as a reality and/or as a metaphor.

But our schools will have none of that. Anything that resembles beauty, empowerment, strength, awareness must be replaced by the dull, limited, uncreative, pre-outlined answers spoon-fed to unsuspecting children in order to keep the "you live in an emtpy universe, you come from dead matter, your life is a meaningless coincidence" in place.


Yes, I looked at the 7 year old child. Beautiful.

reply to post by Skyfloating


yup yup, god forbid our kids realise theres more to life, than going to university (money for the government), getting a job (more money for the governmet lol) getting married and having kids, spend the rest of your life working, to keep your family and lo and behold...more money for the government lol, anyway im going off topic.

We need to start taking these 'fringe theories' a little more seriously, throughout the history of man, those theories considered 'radical' have advanced us alot further than any theories that were accepted by mainstream, and thats because no one wants to make these claims in the mainstream, they would lose all credibility, there job and the respect of piers, and this means the world to these people, more than their families sometimes. If we are to advance as a race, we can't keep laughing and discrediting people who have these 'crazy' theories, we should embrace them, and work off them, if there wrong, fine, pick up some were else, or diverse through another branch, but to laugh and point...how old are we?!? we get told not to do this in primary school, yet when we hit a new idea, we immediately revert back to this childish way.

I saw on here a while ago, an artifact uncovered in Iraq i think it was, and when it was uncovered, many scientist's claim it looked almost exactly like a gravity manipulation device they were working on (theres wasn't greatly successful, although it had yielded some interesting results). this was later changed to, "it was a failed experiment that cost so much, they buried it"....WHAT!?!?!

Why not leave it in a warehouse?? but bury it...in the desert lol, crazy people with crazy excuses, its on here somewere, i just dont know were to look, ill see if i can find it

thanks.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Harte

Actually, I don't mind other people having opinions. I do mind having to continually make the same arguments over and over every couple of months, as a "new batch of believers" comes through.

Yes...but why bother anymore? What is your motivation for doing so? Is it a habit to click on ATS...a website antagonistic to mainstream thought...instead of mainstream-friendly forums?

You wanna know about the Egyptian lunar calendar and why it cannot explain away the 9,000 years Plato claims come after Atlantis? I've told you this twice here at ATS.

Yes, you´ve told me twice. And since your statement "There is no reason to believe in Atlantis AT ALL" has fallen on my deaf ears...I wonder where you get your persistence to continue.

But apparently there´s still a straw of suspicion or hope in you that someday something truly anomalous will be offered here. Otherwise you probably wouldnt show up.

Obviously, you are correct in the last comment.
I do continue to hope.
But I've also told you why I do this - it has to do with placing the "scientific" information in threads as near to these speculative posts as possible. For future reference. I found it extremely difficult to find the "other side's" rationale for believing what you here call the "mainstr4eam" explanations. Actual information is outnumbered about 1000 to 1 on the internet by speculation and pure crapola. In the future, google will turn up threads here that also contain refutations, or the seeds of refutations, in the same thread. People then that are like I was won't have to go to so much trouble to find real source material.

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
p.s C14 is a dated test now, due to it testing biological materials, which through various outside influences decay faster and slower over certain periods of time it is getting found to be more and more inaccurate and ineffective. They are looking at a new ways to get a more clear reading from these artefact's, yet as far as I know they haven't found any.
thanks EMM

EMM,
There is nothing wrong with C14 dating, regardless of your opinion. The argument you are dancing around here is the same as the one made by Young Earth Creationists. It is not valid.
Any dating method has it's drawbacks. There are conditions that can cause C14 dating to be less accurate - even completely inaccurate. Rate of organic decay is not one of them.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
I may be remembering this wrong, but plato never once mensions a date for Atlantis, merely states in a time passed, this adds to the speculation that it was an idealistic story that he made up to remind the Greeks of the time how fragile a eutopia can be, and how easily it can be lost (someone cited 9,000 years?)

The Greeks themselves claim that the Atlantis-story originates in older egypt.

The "Greeks themselves" never mentioned Atlantis at all. Only Plato. The Greeks didn't have a "lost continent" myth.

Scientists from the university of Osaka had dated the Pyramids they found underwater off their coast at at least 9000 B.C. Some even said the place was above land 40 000 B.C.

Japanese underwater Pyramids

What happened? Quickly teams of western scientists arrived to spread the news that "there are no Pyramids under water" in Japan. Several news articles "debunking" the find appeared.

"Western scientists" like Robert Schoch and Graham Hancock? They were the only ones to scramble to the site when it first hit the news.

The "Yonaguni monument" is a natural formation off the coast of the island of Yonaguni Jima. It looks even less man-made than the "Giant's Causeway on the coast of Ireland

Also, Professor Kimura - basically the only actual scientist that still thinks this thing may have been man made - now says that it may be as young as 4,000 years old.

The majority of Japanese scientists dont agree though. They dont understand why western groups have a vested interest in structures not being that old.

I would dispute this. Even pseudohistorians like Robert Schoch and John Anthony West have said that this formation occurred naturally.

I wish you could provide evidence to back up your claim about what "the majority of Japanese scientists" believe about this natural formation, but I know for a fact that this is not true.

Examine the underwater structures yourself. You will find that calling them "natural structures" is so crazy that its indicative of cover-up.

The Yonaguni "monument" has been addressed extremely thoroughly in the past right here at ATS. In those threads you'll see plenty of reason to believe that the formation occurred naturally.

Harte

[edit on 2/19/2008 by Harte]

[edit on 2/19/2008 by Harte]

Found this while looking, but I'll keep looking for the arefact I'm talking about, but for now...enjoy

www.larryhunter.com...

reply to post by Harte
#

Again here, I partially agree, rate of decay isn't a major issue in the C14 test, but due to the make up of the 'mortar' (MULTIPLE organic components) these vary in there rates of decay, they all undergo similar outside influences, but due to there variable make up, they all decay in varying speed, over varying times, I'm sorry, but there are more variables in this than a Quantum Physics equation, and I doubt this is as accurate as is so believed, when we figure out how to Measure light absorption and emanation, I believe this will yield far more accurate results, but even then, it won't be perfect. Before this we have to accept the possibility of the Electrical star model, and the implications it holds. I will never believe that we that we understand everything, and we have the best possible methods, there is ALWAYS a bigger fish

thanks. EMM

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
reply to post by Harte

 

#

Again here, I partially agree, rate of decay isn't a major issue in the C14 test, but due to the make up of the 'mortar' (MULTIPLE organic components) these vary in there rates of decay, they all undergo similar outside influences, but due to there variable make up, they all decay in varying speed, over varying times, I'm sorry, but there are more variables in this than a Quantum Physics equation...

The only decay that influences the C14 method is radioactive decay of the carbon 14 isotope, which rate is extremely constant and quite well known.

Organic decay of formerly living matter has nothing at all to do with it, other than once a thing has completely decayed, it can be hard to tell if you have an organic sample or just a pile of dust.

Harte

reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers

Hi, if you haven't already, I'd suggest reading Sitchin's work on the Sumerian's, as in his books he draws comparisons of each deity, and it's counterpart in the other polytheistic religions of the time (Assyria, Babylonia, Egypt, Greeks and Romans, as well as the south American and Asian religions.

Thanks for the recommendation EMM ,

I have not read his works yet but would like to at some point. I know much of what he has said has been greeted with harsh criticism an deemed invalid (mainly his translations of the Sumerian texts), which has cast a shadow on all of his work, but I'm sure there's much to be learned as well.

I believe there is some sort of a connection between the ancient civilizations of circa 3000bc. It seems to start within their 'religions' and the similarities in gods. There are also some architectural similarities that are curious.

The Sumerians have an interesting story with regards to their gods. There also seems to be connections between them and the Ancient Egyptians which I will present here as soon as I'm able to put the info together.




reply to post by Skyfloating


Ah yes, Enoch. I must read more about him as I don't know much. I actually downloaded the Book of Enoch that you presented at the beginning of this thread. I'll get to it soon hopefully.

This one is curious:
That, after the interbreeding, the Gods would destroy the earth and remove all of their technology and left the earth for humans to develop themselves without interference.



[edit on 19-2-2008 by PhotonEffect]

All,

Sitchin has never demonstrated any ability to translate any ancient language other than Hebrew - which he likely learned for his Bar Mitzvah.

Even his Hebrew is often wrong.

He cannot, IMO, translate cuneiform at all. He takes other's translations, changes some words around, and claims the results are the only correct translation, thus claiming he is the only person on Earth that can properly translate cuneiform.

All this while steadfastly refusing to demonstrate that he can actually translate these writings, after having been challenged to do so on more than one occasion.

Harte