Is There A Conspiracy Of Atheists To Overthrow Christianity?

reply to post by Bigwhammy

You are the messenger now? I thought that was Jesus.
You use your religion to persecute others and you seem to get some sort of enjoyment out of it. It has nothing to with innocently spreading a message.


[edit on 3-4-2008 by riley]

Originally posted by Gigatronix
Yep, I'll agree, without the concept of God there would be no Atheists. Big difference between what I just said and what you said. And yet here I am existing without God, seems I escaped him pretty well. Oh I know, God exists in spite of what I believe right? I don't believe in him, but he believes in me! This is an example of faith trying to force itself on me. No matter how much I don't believe and how much I can explain why I don't, religion still insists that I am wrong, and still tries to foist its rules and regulations on me despite my protests.

HA HA HA You are cracking me up Gig! Ya know whats funny,, is after I accepted the lord,, you know like after they pestered in me into submission and I just couldn't take any more tracts being shoved in my face, offered books at the airport and could no longer take another knock at the door to hear someone tell me about the good news. After all that, after I finally did it got baptised all that..

it's like they must all know for I haven't been bothered since LOL.

.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

[edit on 4/3/2008 by Bigwhammy] Wow,when I first read this passage I thought for sure it came from the Old Testament, since it's so filled with ignorance that surely the Old Jealous God had a finger in it. But lo,it comes from the books of wisdom. BW if you truly believe that godless men are prone to evil and worthy of death, and that those men not only practice evil but approve of it, then I don't know what to say. Surely your all loving, all merciful god would love these men, for it is not the righteous that need gods love, but the wicked, am I right?

I'm sorry BW, but the passages you quoted only reinforce my notion that the Bible itself is propaganda, designed to facilitate the conspiracy of repressing mens minds and stifling free thought. And if you believe that passage, it would seem to be doing its job.

They didn't WANT God. Therefore God FINALLY turned them over to do WHATEVER they wanted and to recieve their just rewards for it.

Every one has free will to get in as much trouble as they want to. God will guide his people in the right paths.

reply to post by Conspiriology


ok, oh ignorant one.

for one thing "abusive" has a myriad of degrees. breaking bones and shouting excessively tend to be the spectrum
dawkins was saying that it's abusive in the latter, softer sense.
just like he said labeling a child with a political affiliation would be abusive, as a child is incapable of making that decision for themselves.

and i guess you're not lying, you're just willfully ignorant.

lying, misrepresenting, two different things

lying: x happened, but you say y
misrepresenting: see straw man logical fallacy.

and egregious ad hom attacks are rife in your posts: you've questioned my sexuality and called Astyanax a druggie
those are both T&C violations

and i've never spread any ignorance. i've attacked your arguments and thoroughly trounced them. you return with ad hom attacks and juvenile arguments

Not true, if there was no such thing as God, you would have no reason to actively disbelieve in one.

...who said it's an active disbelief?
i said that i do not believe in god, not that i believe there is no god
see? that's misrepresenting (it's clearly not the same thing as lying)


screw it, i'm done with the prancing around the issue.

you, me, cage match in the debate forum.

2 posters enter, loser leaves ATS for good.

...oh, wait, you've declined my previous challenge...challenges...
seriously, you seem a bit uneasy about taking me on in a one on one discussion...or even a two on two tag match.

put up, or i'm just going to ignore your ignorance.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
and egregious ad hom attacks are rife in your posts: you've questioned my sexuality and called Astyanax a druggie
those are both T&C violations

Not going to say who is right or who is wrong (In fact, I'm sick of the bickering) but it was because you had mentioned Con's 'rectum.' Another Christian was told to 'stick it where the sun don't shine.' A pagan was told 'up yours' (three comments from three different atheists directed to three different theists). There seems to be a epidemic of anal fascination! The other member you mention openly admits to using controlled substances in his profile under his 'likes' (which in itself is a T&C violation). I cannot condone any of it but that is how it started as far as I can see.

Not terribly fair to play the victim now and cry about T&C violations.

screw it, i'm done with the prancing around the issue.

you, me, cage match in the debate forum.

2 posters enter, loser leaves ATS for good.

It's unnecessary for anyone to have to leave upon losing a debate. This playground is big enough for all of us if we can start treating each other as people and acting like adults. Besides, if the rule was the loser would have to leave ATS, we'd miss you, MIMS. Yes, I am teasing. Take care everyone.

[edit on 4/3/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD


play the victim now?

i brought up that it was a T&C violation and alerted the mods to it...obviously they did nothing about it.

i mentioned his rectum because that's where he was pulling things from. it's a somewhat poetic way of saying he was making things up...
which he clearly was, because, instead of proving that "atheist hate sites" were being taken down he called me a homosexual.

how fun.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

ok, oh ignorant one.


for one thing "abusive" has a myriad of degrees. breaking bones and shouting excessively tend to be the spectrum
dawkins was saying that it's abusive in the latter, softer sense.
just like he said labeling a child with a political affiliation would be abusive, as a child is incapable of making that decision for themselves.

Mad, I do not know why such common sense escapes you. Abuse is Abuse and when something goes from normal to abuse, how far over the line of abuse is just superfluous. I mean you are arguing a no win situation between losing and losing real bad. Abuse is the same way. You can either be abusing or abusing real bad.

Perhaps it is the reason you have never had children of your own or always wanted some, and still don't, men have a time clock too you know. Maybe it has been I grew so tired of you using that accusation because it was a favorite of yours whenever trying to get my goat. I do not know for sure and can only speculate where you are concerned. One can lose a child to abuse and the myriad you speak of are grades of grey you have no idea how well I understand them.

I know when you have children of your own you need to be more worried about those shades of grey abuse that come in the form of others abuse and not your own. Sometimes we just can't protect them from others who abuse them because those others like to abuse alcohol and while I worry less about my reading Bible stories, I think it would be a more worthy a Cause for Dawkins to speak to those that drive while drunk then maybe I could agree with him. Maybe if you and people like Dawkins could spend more time on that rather then nit picking Christian parents who have lost their kids to such abusers, my life would be a lot different today and you and I would be very good friends. Again,, I can only speculate.

It is so very interesting how your post and my reply compels me to reflect on something a Mod told me recently and how very much that Mod and me have in common whether we agree with each other or not, I have since learned he and I have more in common then our ability to be blunt.

I kind of laugh because he told me off so much worse then you can get away with that as much as you try to find that fine line between just far enough from warning and going too far, your attempts to again get me in trouble or get my goat will not work. Albeit the Mods message had these words of warning ,,,

No more use of all caps in a whole sentence to scream at the opposition, no more insulting remarks to degrade the intelligence of others, no more snide and baiting posts. No more talking to people like they were dogs. Period.

It would seem starting your post with the words "oh ignorant one" does not apply or perhaps you did not get the same warning. I really do not know.

and egregious ad hom attacks are rife in your posts: you've questioned my sexuality and called Astyanax a druggie those are both T&C violations

I think Ashley who may seem has a tendency to defend me; it is most likely because she has seen the same blistering U2U and most likely does not want me to get into trouble. It is also, again quite compelling to me, how our two posts tie into what I have to say to you directly and that Mod indirectly. That just because I do not learn something from your posts directly madd, does NOT mean I do not learn something because of them, indirectly. First, you accuse me of misrepresentation while accusing me of calling asty a druggie when I never said such a thing.

I merely mentioned his profile had a rather strange perspective about drug use that they can be used wisely. My only hope is that he does not think such a thing is possible while driving a car. People can lose their entire family that way and albeit may have been no fault of my own and without going into detail, nobody knows that better then I do.

I do not know what you are trying to suggest by my calling your sexuality into question but Ashley is right on that one too.

You see, I doubt very seriously any of you have known as many gay people as I have, hired as many as I have, or known as many that were friends who have died from AIDS as I have.

Now that is not to suggest that I am Gay, I am unequivocally not Gay.
While I admit I have been more attracted to Ashley’s posts then most women could attract me being naked before my eyes, I am weird like that and yes, I am straight. Knowing as many who seemed to have a fascination with my butt, seeing you make so many comments whether I was getting my ideas from same, well,, the question did cross my mind. I apologize if I appeared presumptuous.

I have always been quite candid about about my flaws and as someone once told me, my intellect "is mediocre at best". I am certain I can stand next to others and feel quite dumb yet their are still others I can find and compare myself to and feel like a genius. Perhaps that is what I do for you when you insult my common grasp of logic.

, you're just willfully ignorant

Perhaps, you are right, but my intent is to willfully deny ignorance

and I’ve never spread any ignorance. i've attacked your arguments and thoroughly trounced them.

As I said,, I willfully deny ignorance.
Especially when it is paraded in egoism and pride.

...who said it's an active disbelief?
i said that i do not believe in god, not that i believe there is no god
see?

All I see is the same Atheist semantically spun logic I have always seen coming from you. That's doesn't mean you are wrong, it just means I see no logic in your statement but as you said, I don't have a very good grasp of common logic much less the convoluted kind.

screw it, i'm done with the prancing around the issue.

you, me, cage match in the debate forum.

2 posters enter, loser leaves ATS for good.

...oh, wait, you've declined my previous challenge...challenges...
seriously, you seem a bit uneasy about taking me on in a one on one discussion...or even a two on two tag match.

put up, or i'm just going to ignore your ignorance

As much as I would welcome such a cage match in real life madd,, I would not want one of my comrades feeling a bit guilty if I were to have to honor such a contest with them feeling like I had to leave on what they may feel was a result of their poor performance. Their is only one person I would want as a partner and she has the grace of someone that would be self effacing enough to do just that so on that reason I decline.

As for a one on one. Madd I really have no desire to see you leave if by some stroke of nuclear luck, I would win. The Mod I was talking about that gave me the blistering u2u, taught me a lesson that until the past few days, if I did not "reflect" on it as he suggested, I would have probably done what my instincts told me to do. I can tell you quite honestly, I would not be making this post too.

Perhaps I can humor that Mod in telling him what I have learned since that day. I live in the Sonoran desert among many Navajo and Mexican American people. Their is a lot of land between our homes as this is Horse country. Occasionally a Neighbor of mine also a Navajo Indian comes over and we talk about politics and things like that. He calls me a name I cannot even pronounce it much less spell it but it means "The white Homicide". As he rode up, I said hey he said hey Homicide. I laughed and said come on in I wanted to show him something.

On this occasion, I had a more important thing I wanted him to see. I showed him the message I got from the Mod and said how I should answer this. He said what makes you think you should answer it today.

I said what do you mean. He seemed to be aware of the argument I was in as if he knew who the Mod was. He knows I am a Christian and believes that it was my Christianity that has sustained me through some personal loss. Something no Atheism could begin to comfort let alone heal. I do not argue with the Native Americans over the Bible, and it was my Navajo friend that taught me how the many teachings of the Bible were not something his religion required from a book but were the same teachings written on the hearts of his people.

Therefore, in closing I will quote that Mod, one whom I had angst for but now understand. It is something called Honor and is something no Science no Logic can properly equivocate. It must be learned from teachers in our lives even those we tend to think we are teaching when it actually us that are the students. As I said this Mod has more in common with me then he knows so this may sum up quite well one of my favorite posts of his

Regarding the ever-lasting war between Science and Religion.

Humans are bred to feel better than everybody else. And that is evident in our preocupation with religion, which is nothing more than a schoolboy attempt at proving who is worthier of the love of a Creator.

Science is not immune to such a basic thing as this. It is evident in the way science is always slow to accept new ideas, no matter how well founded they are. And science will, whenever ET comes knocking, if he hasn't already, try the same line there by denying the possibility, and then by trying to find enough fault with them when they can't be ignored, to make them seem "lower" than we humans.

The Mod knows who he is.

loser leaves ATS for good.

Madd I have no desire to compel you to leave ATS and in spite of what you might think, there are many here that would not want to see me leave either. It is your lucky day however and this will be my last post on the matter.

put up, or I’m just going to ignore your ignorance

Please,, Allow me.

There you are

Ignored.

- Con


[edit on 3-4-2008 by Conspiriology]

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


I understand the concept of someone pulling things out of their behind as being an expression. Neither side has been completely innocent in the apparent Atheist/Christian feud that seems to be rampant here. In a thread a couple months back an atheist told me to shove something 'up my *SNIP*.' They were warned and the post was edited. The moral of the story is that we should all stop talking like that to each other. It's crude and hurtful. I did see Con apologize for the remark to you so hopefully we can move on.

I know it can be frustrating, MIMS. Also about two months ago a member accused me of 'guzzling hate *SNIP*.' When I reported it nothing happened and I was actually told to let the mods be the mods. So, I U2Ued a mod who updated the comment for me. Problem solved. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Hopefully now that you have received an apology we can move on.

And by 'play the victim' I mean to antagonize someone but then point out what they did without taking a step back to think what we possibly did to escalate the hostility. It is the same with Astyanax. I don't even know him so I will refrain and being that Con already explained nothing further needs to be said. However, if someone breaks the T&C's, I'm not sure how Con is the bad guy for bringing it up.

That's all.

[edit on 3-4-2008 by NGC2736]

And here is something I left on MIMS's thread on BTS but it would probably be useful to place it here, too. If atheists are feeling attacked and Christians are feeling attacked, then the logical conclusion would be to say we are both guilty:

I am going to try to be understanding and explain something to me my mother told me long ago. We all see things from our own perspective. As she put it, everyone in this world is a 'me' in their eyes while the rest of the world consists of 'you's.' Then when you tell someone that you are the 'me' and they are the 'you,' they will correct you by saying they are the 'me' and you are the 'you.' We're all going to see it from our own end.

So, it is highly possible this is indeed going on by both sides but since we all see ourselves as the 'me' we are biased and cannot see it from the other 'me' perspective.

Confucius over and out.

[edit on 4/3/2008 by AshleyD]

I told you a while ago. I figured it all out. There are 92% Theists in the world and 8% Atheists. Therefore, 92% of the crap and crappy people are Theists and 8% of them are Atheists

So, Atheists win this one.......HANDS DOWN!

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I told you a while ago. I figured it all out. There are 92% Theists in the world and 8% Atheists. Therefore, 92% of the crap and crappy people are Theists and 8% of them are Atheists

So, Atheists win this one.......HANDS DOWN!

Would someone please give this guy a doughnut,
before his right arm gets longer than his left one, from patting himself on the back?

Btw EB, You claim that you are not an Atheist, so I suppose that puts you in that percentile range with the rest of us 'Crappy People.'

[edit on 4-4-2008 by sizzle]

\]FORGET IT please delete

[edit on 4/3/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Folks, it seems that y'all cannot talk about the topic without directly attacking eachother so. Please, attack the post, not the poster.

If y'all can't manage to do that, the thread will be closed, peace and harmony will reign and the universe will be restored.

reply to post by Gigatronix


Since you mixed my quotes with Conspiriology's I thought I would answer your responses to my quotes.

Originally posted by Gigatronix

Originally posted by darkelf

I grew up with 1950's censorship on media such as tv and radio. I watched throughout the years as secularism has taken over. This has been good and bad. While I disagree with censorship, I feel that our children (and grandchildren) are being bombarded with ideas that they are much too young to understand properly. I see eight-year-olds dressing like Vegas hookers and their parents see nothing wrong with it.

Hmm they can't handle the concept of appropriate fashion sense, but they can handle the concept of Supreme Being? Bit of a stretech there, considering educated men and philosophers spend most of their life wrestling around the concept, but an 8 year old should pick it up in no time.

I was pointing out how the parents of these children have become so used to seeing this type of fashion that they (the parents not the kids) not only allow it, but see nothing wrong with it. I’m talking about how 40 years of uncensored television promoting T&A has affected the adults. The kids are innocent bystanders.

Fredom of religion is now freedom from religion. People are more selfish and become very angry at anyone who would question their motives. How dare you call me a sinner! Yet they fail to realize that the definition of sin is disobedience to God.

Yep well if I don't believe in God I can't be sinning now can I. Maybe according to you I am, but if I could care less about God's opinion, imagine how yours sizes up.

I really don’t care, but thank you for making my point.

I have never understood how people can rail against the laws of a God they don't even believe in. If you don't believe, what difference does it make?

Originally posted by Conspiriology if God didn't exist, their would be no Atheist's. So you see they can't exist without him, there really is no escaping it.

Yep, I'll agree, without the concept of God there would be no Atheists. Big difference between what I just said and what you said. And yet here I am existing without God, seems I escaped him pretty well. Oh I know, God exists in spite of what I believe right? I don't believe in him, but he believes in me! This is an example of faith trying to force itself on me. No matter how much I don't believe and how much I can explain why I don't, religion still insists that I am wrong, and still tries to foist its rules and regulations on me despite my protests.

What rules; Thou shalt not kill, Love one another, or maybe it was the part about not worshipping anything other than God?

reply to post by Crakeur


Thank you for your remarks Crakeur,
I want you to understand upfront that I mean no disrespect when I say this. I have the highest regards for the mods and their work here.
Personally, it would not bother me to see this thread closed. I am the Op. I asked for it to be closed, some twenty or thirty pages ago, due to the attacks between members.
There are some members here who make it virtually impossible to maintain 100% civility at all times. And that is their intention. If you follow their posts, you will see the pattern. I don't know if it is just something lacking in their personal lives that drive them; but that is none of my business.
But it is disruptive and has no value to the advancement of the topic. It only succeeds in frustrating people beyond their ability to cope.
With much shame, I admit, that I find myself caught up in this. I will take the opportunity to apologize. I am human first. I will try harder and accept whatever decision the Mods make in reference to the handling of this thread. Thank you.

Originally posted by AshleyD
And here is something I left on MIMS's thread on BTS but it would probably be useful to place it here, too. If atheists are feeling attacked and Christians are feeling attacked, then the logical conclusion would be to say we are both guilty:

I am going to try to be understanding and explain something to me my mother told me long ago. We all see things from our own perspective. As she put it, everyone in this world is a 'me' in their eyes while the rest of the world consists of 'you's.' Then when you tell someone that you are the 'me' and they are the 'you,' they will correct you by saying they are the 'me' and you are the 'you.' We're all going to see it from our own end.

So, it is highly possible this is indeed going on by both sides but since we all see ourselves as the 'me' we are biased and cannot see it from the other 'me' perspective.

Confucius over and out.

[edit on 4/3/2008 by AshleyD]

Well said Ash, star for you. If everyone could move a little closer to this kind of understanding, we'd all be in a lot better shape.

Everyone: could we possibly start this over? Pretend we all just met and are gathered for a stimulating discussion about conspiracies.

As an Atheist, I will be the first to extend the proverbial olive branch. I may not agree with you Theists about the origins of life, the meaning of life, or the purpose of our lives, but that doesn't make you my enemy or an example of what not to be. I don't blame your faith, or you, for the great wrongs done in the name of your faith. You are a person, and I can only hold you accountable for what you personally have done. I think we can agree, that the idea,or even the reality, of a conspiracy to banish your belief system is unsettling and alarming, even for an Atheist like me. I have no desire to see conflict, and I have no desire to see something held near and dear to millions of people replaced by something potentially far more sinister.

I can say with confidence that many religious folks are good upstanding people that only wnat to get through life and have the freedom to believe what they choose. If there is a vast religious conspiracy, I dont blame the religion, I blame the maniacs at the wheel.I'm just as concerned about Atheists conspiracies as I am about religious conspiracies. The're both counter-productive, and only serve to drive the wedge further between innocent ordinary people that would find they could tolerate eachother just find with a little understanding,humor, and respect.

Having said all that, I think its only fair that the believers reading this can appreciate my common sense and open-mindedness, and extend the same to my beliefs. Neither of our beliefs are perfect, neither has all the answers, and neither is 100% correct. This is just my opinion of course, and I only offer it for your consideration, never to try and convert you,or pursuade you, or even spite you.

reply to post by darkelf

My apologies for mixing quotes, Im a noob when it comes to chopping up posts and quotes, so try and go easy on me

I agree with you concerning parents apparent lack of judgement when it comes to the choice of their childrens wardrobe. Don't care for it myself, gratuitous fashion sense is pretty silly in my opinion. But my point still stands, if these kids can't realize that they're dressed inappropriately, or that their behavior is out of line, how can they grasp the concepts of religion? Most kids could care less, they care more about what their friends think.I will admit that maye a little bible study would help, but I;'ve seen plenty of cases in my lifetime of parents bringing their children up lovingly and moderately with religion, and yet they still turn out wild. Not the fault of religion or the parents efforts, sometimes it just doesnt take. My opinion is religion should be learned about when they are emotionally,psychologically,and intellectually ready to study it.

I can see that you dont care about my opinion of your opinion, thats cool with me. But what point of yours did I prove?

As far rules and regulations in religion go, I could type for a good long while about the concepts I find indigestable. Suffice it to say, I have no qualms with love thy neighbor,thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not bear false witness etc. But I could care less for:If I dont believe in Jesus I'm going to hell. If I worship anything other than the specified god, I'm going to hell.(I dont really worship anything but I like the freedom to choose to at a later point in time.) I'm not a big fan of Thou Shalt not covet thy neighbors wife either. I dont neccessarily think doing that is good, but it's human nature, I don't think I should ahve to feel guilty or feel like I've disappointed God just because I had a 3 second daydream about the hot girl at work.

ALl of this is beside thepoint anyway, because on who's authority am I compelled to follow these rules? A priest, a religion, a believer? They are only men, and they have no power over me. Sacred texts, ancient manuscripts, historical documents? These are man made things, I am not inclined to take anything more seriously simply because someone wrote their thoughts down for me to read. I might appreciate them for their relevance in human history, I may appreciate the morals and mesages they're trying to get across. But they are nowhere near an authority on what I do with my life,the choices I make, or the path I choose.


[edit on 3-4-2008 by Gigatronix]

reply to post by sizzle

Btw EB, You claim that you are not an Atheist, so I suppose that puts you in that percentile range with the rest of us 'Crappy People.'

You totally missed my point sizzle.....when I say crappy people, I mean criminals and deviants. If you put yourself in that catagory, I'm sorry. I didn't put you in that catagory.....

When I say the crap that goes on in the world, I mean all the terrible atrocities, genocides, wars, rapes, murders, mayhem, etc.....If you want to look at the percentages: 92% of the world is Theist and therefore, 92% of all this nastiness is caused by Theists.

Very simple math and logic. That's why this one is over!

reply to post by Excitable_Boy


Okay, let's see if I misunderstood. Here is your direct quote.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I told you a while ago. I figured it all out. There are 92% Theists in the world and 8% Atheists. Therefore, 92% of the crap and crappy people are Theists and 8% of them are Atheists

I didn't put myself in the 'Crappy People' category. I believe that the exact, above quote did. Because I do not belong in the 8% Atheist range.
So now, if only you could get yourself appointed to Mod status, you could close the thread down. God knows I have tried.
But keep up the good work, it still could happen.