Is There A Conspiracy Of Atheists To Overthrow Christianity?

reply to post by Gigatronix


Of course I meant the soviet leadership was immoral... and it is a 20th century example. And there are documents proving they conspired to convert people from Christianity to atheism. I provided one.

The Old Testament Laws were in a completely different context that no longer applies today. We know that but apparantly atheists don't because they bring them up all the time. Those laws were for Jews in 200 BC not modern Christians.

reply to post by Bigwhammy
Ok I can dig that. But you're basically dismissing a large portion of the unfallible word of God, I dont get that. If it's irrelevant, why not just print out Bibles that only have the New Testament? Understand that I am not trying to attack you or your faith here, but surely you can appreciate how convenient what you say sounds. In this case, you're not airbrushing history, you're just saying it doesn't matter anymore, because it was a different time. We have a bona fide instance of a immorality being proscribed in the Bible, and your response is," We rationalized that one away a long time ago, because things are different now than they were then" Isn't the word of God supposed to be eternal and undeniable? Again, not trying to attack you here, just trying to understand your logic.

Originally posted by Gigatronix
But you're basically dismissing a large portion of the unfallible word of God, I dont get that. If it's irrelevant, why not just print out Bibles that only have the New Testament?

There are some NT only Bibles but that is beside the point. It's because the OT law is the first five books- not the entire OT. And even that is neither here nor there. The OT law was never supposed to be permanent- only temporary until it was fulfilled by the Messiah. To toss out the OT would mean we toss out history, Messianic prophecy, OT prophecy, and exegetical foreshadowing.

Understand that I am not trying to attack you or your faith here, but surely you can appreciate how convenient what you say sounds.

And we can see how it sounds to an 'outsider' but that is pretty much what it comes down to: They don't understand that was social/religious law. There was no 'separation of church and state' in other words with the Jews of antiquity. Also the temple rituals given in the laws are no longer necessary. And again, it was never supposed to be permanent. Furthermore, the Hebrews rallied Moses for laws, judges, and later rallied for a monarchy. They actually wanted the structure. All mentioned in the Bible so I'll spare you the quote hunt.

In this case, you're not airbrushing history, you're just saying it doesn't matter anymore, because it was a different time.

But basically that is what it comes down to. However, it isn't airbrushing it. Airbrushing it would be to forget all about it or to toss out the OT. Which we don't. We understand the spiritual principles and foreshadowing. It never stopped mattering. It was fulfilled. But we are not going to toss out the history because of it.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
as always, we're ridiculously off topic

as i've said before, if there's a conspiracy you have to prove, first and foremost that there is an organizational structure or at least a large group of atheists that are working together

this has yet to be proven by anyone.

Oh that was done a long time ago,, and as I said before madd,, it only takes two to conspire and not all have to be knowing agents in a conspiracy. I know you would like to make this as hard to prove as possible but I spent too many hours in 911 debates not to remember what constitutes a conspiracy.

Case Closed:

- Con

reply to post by Conspiriology


Agreed Con...

It only takes a few to conspire. The four horsemen are a conspiracy in and of themselves.



[edit on 4/1/2008 by Bigwhammy]

reply to post by sizzle


Sissle i`ve enjoyed the threads immensly except that there is really no need to conspire against all of christidom as they are hell bent on their own destruction as much as all other religions are -considering that they kill and make war after being told not to -they poison the land air plants and animals this being their water and food supply along with their own selves and children instead of taking care of the fathers garden[world] hunanity raped the trees from 5 continents and the fish from the sea even though they were told that everything was here for a reason and you are all still doing it and so on and so forth. God if the christ child him self were here he`d turn his back on all of us for the world is still commiting the oldest of sins in newer and better ways proclaiming that they are doing gods work all in the name of greed or may i say money the root of all evil -bah & humbug-It`s amazing hindu vs.shingh -christian vs. arab,muslim and all others who are not of their faith or better yet protesant vs. catholic and all this pettishness leds to what more wars and killing- so who is propagating this hatered and non tollerance why it`s our churches who all seem to say that if your not of our faith your evil -terror mongers or fools which is the human race. Humanity the human race or those who are humane i think you have all forgotten everything you wre taught.? so i have a question for you how do you fight ignorance with a closed mind ?an open mind would wait for all of the faiths to destroy them selves over a book of words which has been taken out of order and context while biding it`s time and enjoying a cold one watching all the mindless little sheep being led to the slaughter saying oh what a waste of life knowing full well that it could never help the ones who lost their ability to use their wise minds [sheep]athieests dont need to conspire against us we do quite fine all by ourselves we really dont need any help.Take a look at the middle east and this battle is still going on after all these centeries and they still haven`t learned how to get along and now our governments are leading us into battle with the hue and cry that you will kill for god and for country knowing full well that you will all do as you are told when you are told without question. what wre you told not to take the lords name vainly and your doing - say what ?-all fanatics do god ,allah yaweh or whatever name you choose to use as a way to take acceptance for these sins that your right in all faith`s sorry- wrong answer people!remember there are only 4 races of men -red white black and yellow and they are all the same - guilty as sin- CONSIPACY christidom has no idea what is really going on but i will tell you that your church is false so is the lie about the savior hint the fathers words were this -when his child arrives his arrival will be hearalded by a thunder lighting and hells fire like the world has never seen and it will not harm anything so where is the jesuses thunder as there was none-Why are they so hell bent to start another war in the middle east at this point in time -it`s not to hide the truth which is about to come out is it i believe we call it the armmegedon don`t we, and we are now being set up for it !!! now take a good look at the world and yourselves in the mirror it really is`nt a pretty picture is it . caught the hints yet or are you still going to come off withthe attitude that your right -by the way zizle you come off as a fish out of water what are you pagan or believer as you flipped every way.u2u me for a greater debate.

reply to post by picrat


Since you are addressing me personally, I will respond. Probably not as you had hoped.
I think that it is too bad that the mod warnings do not include the incessant, redundant, never-ending slanderous, insulting onslaught of accusations of one particular religious group here.

When all other attempts at intelligent responses fail; certain people continually resort to the mud-slinging tactics of accusations of, "Murdering Christians.'
How long ago was all of this? Have the Atheists, Pagans, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. committed any sins?

And, whether Christianity likes it or not, we get lumped together with cult religions. And this is by self-appointed experts on the subject, that are not even Christian. Good one!

I resent the accusations. I have murdered no one. I hate no one. I have molested no one. I think there needs to be a halt to this type of mud-slinging hatred. Irregardless of where it comes from. It is not advantageous to discussion nor debate.

Edit: Now according to your accusation, it is the sole actions of the Christians that have put nature in disrepair. Anything else?

Another edit: Sorry, you did not accuse Christians of destroying nature, you stated, humanity.
From your post it's hard for me to decipher your point. Maybe I need another cup of Java.

[edit on 1-4-2008 by sizzle]

[edit on 1-4-2008 by sizzle]

This is just a general post. Hopefully it will not be considered off-topic. If it is, I apologize. I just wanted to speak from my heart for just a moment.

When I first joined ATS a few months ago, I had doubts about remaining. I happened upon a thread that a member D4rkKn1ght had initiated. Ats was my first exposure to an online discussion forum. It terrified me to see some of the hateful, mean and accusatory remarks that were cast at that member. I even stated my feelings there. A kindly member assured me that not everyone on-board here presented themselves in that manner. He encouraged me to stick around and see a better side.

I took his advice. I am glad that I did. I see that there are many wonderful people here. But this thread and others like it, seem to bring out the worst in people. Myself, included. I have seen involvement in other threads from some of you, and the demeanors are entirely different.

There are times that I log in to this thread, and some of you make me smile. Then there are other times when the mud-slinging starts; I actually feel physically ill because of what I read here.

I was wondering if it would be possible if we could all strive to be more civil to each other and just stick to the issues. There is no need for name calling and accusations. Please?

I opened this thread as a newbie on ATS. I joined here on 12/04/07. This thread was initiated 01/15/08. The thread title states, 'Is there a Conspiracy of Atheists to Overthrow Christianity?'

First, I invite you to look at the question mark in the title. It is a question and not an accusation. Second, I ask you to look at my longevity of membership on ATS at the posting of this thread. Third, I ask your forgiveness for my ignorance as a newbie here, when I opened the thread.

In summation of the entirety of the pro's and con's posted here, I would like to submit my opinion of the outcome. Personally, I find that there is no conspiracy to overthrow Christianity, by anyone. My choice of wording was very poor.

However, I do find that there is much unhappiness, unrest and discussion to alter or obliterate mainstream religions. I hope that my wording is found to be appropriate this time.

Edit: As the Op, this question has been answered to my satisfaction. I hope that it has for everyone else.

[edit on 1-4-2008 by sizzle]

[edit on 1-4-2008 by sizzle]

reply to post by sizzle


Hey, Siz. First of all, you are a sweetheart and are a far better person than myself. I know you will not agree with what I am about to say but you know me and my big fat mouth!

You should not apologize for making this thread. You maintained class throughout your thread, refereed your thread as the OP when the insults started to fly, and bent over backwards to soften hard feelings in an effort to accommodate those offended by this thread. Not to mention you apologized left and right even when members made false accusations against you. You did a fabulous job and acted as a far better Christian than most of us would have been capable of after hearing something like that.

I was in the same boat as you with my evolution thread. I apologized up and down, left and right... to no avail. Then I begin to think why on earth am I apologizing? Being opinionated is not unladylike nor un-Christian. You did a fabulous job and brought up an interesting point that got a lot of people thinking.

Sure some people became hostile but that is not your fault. It's what happens when you touch a nerve. Sure there have been a ton of anti-Christian threads on here so it does surprise me to see so many up in arms about this one. Not to mention this thread was mainly started in reply to the thread about an Anti-Atheist Conspiracy with the premise mainly Christians were the big bad meanies. I don't recall any apologies on that thread even when a Christian was accused of child abuse for teaching his children the Bible. I guess they don't have a problem with that one.

If you had sunken to that level I would say apologize to your hearts content. However, you never did such a thing. I can see how you would be sorry for starting this thread but in my opinion, you shouldn't be and have my full support.

You have every right to bring up a controversial subject just like the other tens of thousands of members here. You know I love you and I've got your back. Sorry others, including myself at times, couldn't maintain civility but that is not your fault. It's ours. You are a peacemaker and have asked this thread to be closed which was a sweet gesture. Just remember, you have every right to make a thread especially when it was done with as much class as you did and only posed a question- not an accusation.

[edit on 4/2/2008 by AshleyD]

on a sidenote:

the numbers of muslims on the earth has overtaken the catholics

Muslims more numerous than Catholics: Vatican


strange how christians keep saying that their religion is correcter due to the fact that its growing more and more

wont be long before muslims overtake the whole of christianity based on numbers

reply to post by sizzle


Sizzle- I apologize if I strayed off topic in any ineloquent way I chose to describe my observations of both Christianity and Atheism.

I have buttons attributed to my experience with Christianity and my brief experience with Atheism led me to the same observation fairly quickly as I saw them as opposing groups and not much more.

The truth of it is, I feel the same about both as much as I feel about the collateral damage of both- however, collateral damages relational to my personal experiences are weighted more heavily towards Christianity- largely because of greater personal history- I was hoping that I was able to rise above biases.

The conclusion I have reached is that there is a conspiracy to over-throw both Christianity and Atheism. I have capitalized both groups to show equal respect.

Again I apologize if my ramblings have injured this thread.



[edit on 1-4-2008 by dk3000]

reply to post by Bigwhammy

The Old Testament Laws were in a completely different context that no longer applies today. We know that but apparantly atheists don't because they bring them up all the time. Those laws were for Jews in 200 BC not modern Christians.

I love this. How can the Old Testament all of a sudden be written off as worthless by Christians? The laws were for Jews, but not Christians? Christians are too good for the laws of God?

Like I've always said, Christians are obsiously Pagans with their two gods: God and Jesus.

Talk about double talk. You all get mad at anyone that picks and chooses parts of the Bible to believe and parts to not believe. Yet, here YOU are doing it! It kills me.

You can actually sit here and say the Old Testament, which is supposed to be the words of God, was NOT written for Christians?

Did God make a mistake when he wrote the Old Testament? Christians are too good even for the Old Testament now?

reply to post by Excitable_Boy


All that was already answered HERE. When people accuse Christians of ignoring the OT Law, that stems from their own ignorance. Jesus became the law and fulfilled it. It is not picking and choosing but taking the entirety of Scripture into account because the entirety of Scripture tells us such things.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy

I love this. How can the Old Testament all of a sudden be written off as worthless by Christians? The laws were for Jews, but not Christians? Christians are too good for the laws of God?

You love this? Maybe do a little research...
www.ukapologetics.net...

Anyone with even an elementary understanding knows that Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament law by dying on the cross.

Like I've always said, Christians are obsiously Pagans with their two gods: God and Jesus.

Talk about double talk. You all get mad at anyone that picks and chooses parts of the Bible to believe and parts to not believe. Yet, here YOU are doing it! It kills me.

You can actually sit here and say the Old Testament, which is supposed to be the words of God, was NOT written for Christians?

Did God make a mistake when he wrote the Old Testament? Christians are too good even for the Old Testament now?

A very simple explanation is in order. God gave the OT law to the Jews to keep them healthy and strong. Rules for living and for survival in a harsh environment. Also to point to the type of character that pleases God. If they broke the law that was a "sin" and they had to make a blood sacrifice for it. Goats, birds, etc were used. Because all people have a sinful nature, no one ever kept it perfectly.

Until Jesus. He kept the law perfectly and then became the blood sacrifice for all sins past and future. He fulfilled the law and then he was the final sacrifice. By fulfilling it the old system is no longer necessary. Christians uphold the law to please God, not to avoid his wrath. Christ has paid the price for us. This is clearly laid out in the Bible, which you have obviously never read.

How can you presume to have such strong opinions and remain intellectually honest with yourself, when you have never even read the book enough to understand the most basic teachings?

Ignorance denied.


[edit on 4/1/2008 by Bigwhammy]

reply to post by Excitable_Boy


Is there any chance that you would at least TRY to be civil? And please stop with the derogatory remarks. It is totally uncalled for and very unpleasant.

Edit: furthermore, keeping or not keeping OT laws has nothing to do with this thread topic.

[edit on 1-4-2008 by sizzle]

EB, are you Jewish or of another one of the Abrahamic faiths than Christianity? I'm just asking because there are some Abrahamic faiths that don't believe God and son are one. Not trying to offend, I just think it might help for us to know where you're coming from. I think I remember you saying you aren't atheist (if I remember correctly...I could be remembering wrong).

[edit on 4/1/08 by idle_rocker]

reply to post by sizzle


Sizzle, I absolutely abhor the fact you feel you must apologize for opening a thread. If that doesn't speak for the state of the world, I don't know what does. I've said time and time again, that this website represents a microcosm of the entire world...and it does. As AshleyD said, you have done a fantastic job of monitoring the thread and have had to endure heated attacks just for the OP.

You are my friend and I will always support you. You and a few others here have supported and helped me more than any of you will ever know. I have learned and a lot and my eyes have been opened. This should be what this website is for...finding like-minded friends, and supporting each other while we search for further truth.

This thread has served a purpose...a huge purpose. And I think we should all step back, look at ourselves and ask ourselves if this is how we really want to portray ourselves. Is this how we act because we're not face to face, or is this how we really act normally? Anonymity has a lot to do with it. But trashing someone, anonymous or not, is a hateful thing to do. What are we doing to the other person's psyche when we use such hateful tactics? We will probably never know.

I will say this. I started to not even read what one of the above posters said to you because it was so difficult to read...not hard in the sense of being nasty, but difficult in the way it was written. Now I am glad I did. None of us should have to endure personal attacks.

May we all try to refrain from "coming out swinging" when we find ourselves in a corner...me included. Sometimes it's best to go back to the corner, get a drink of water and do a little footwork before we punch.

I_R

reply to post by Excitable_Boy

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I love this. How can the Old Testament all of a sudden be written off as worthless by Christians? The laws were for Jews, but not Christians? Christians are too good for the laws of God?

The Law was written to show how imperfect we are. Sin is disobeying God. No one could keep all of the Law. A sacrifice of blood was required to atone for sin. Jesus fulfilled the Law through His death and resurrection. Now that the Law has been fulfilled we are under grace not legalism.

Like I've always said, Christians are obsiously Pagans with their two gods: God and Jesus.

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I will not waste space explaining why I disagree with this view as others have done so before me.

Talk about double talk. You all get mad at anyone that picks and chooses parts of the Bible to believe and parts to not believe. Yet, here YOU are doing it! It kills me.

You can actually sit here and say the Old Testament, which is supposed to be the words of God, was NOT written for Christians?

Did God make a mistake when he wrote the Old Testament? Christians are too good even for the Old Testament now?

The Bible is to be taken as a whole. It is a love story from beginning to end. The Old Testament covers the First Covenant (contract) with Abraham and his seed. The New Testament is the New Covenant for all mankind. It’s not that the Old Testament doesn’t apply to Christians; it’s that the Law has been fulfilled. Otherwise we’d be in temples sacrificing animals to atone for our sin.

Very well said, DarkElf. And the OT hasn't been thrown out by Christianity. We are just no longer under the law, as DarkElf said. The OT has great use in life with wonderful stories of God's children, their mistakes, and their triumphs that we all can use to apply to our lives today.

The main focus of the OT is the prophecy through types and shadows of the coming Messiah. Jesus fulfilled that prophecy. So it's not that we don't use it...we do - a lot. And we can glean a lot from it about human nature, the nature of God, the nature of sin, and the entire world.