Special Forces Convo : Originally Called 'For all those people who think the American Special Force

The guy, however, doesnt say they are equals, he just says a comparision is inappropiate.

Something that you do not agree with since you started this whole thread.

Originally posted by browha
You wanna try climb 75 km of the Brecon Beacons in full combat + 100 something lbs on your back?
They spend a month pretty much doing this endurance solid. By the time you get to the final step you are too tired to take much of a step.

Sounds like mountain warfare school

Originally posted by browha
A month where you go several days without sleep at a time, constantly hiking with 3-8 stone bergens, climbing extremely dangerous mountains....
How about this, if you think it is so easy, put in a request to try out for British SAS Selection. Then tell me what you think. I hear the summer selection course is easier than the Janurary selection course.

Try to get into force recon or Buds less than 1% of those tested pass for force recon and just to take the test you have to be a 1st class PFT (phyiscal fitness test) and a rifle expert.

There's special forces groups that we don't even know about. So technically, we really can't debate the topic of who's special forces are the best without all the facts.

Originally posted by browha
He's a sailor! You know what they say about sailors in Britian

Rum sodomy and the lash

If you read carefully, I actually agreed before you stepped in that it was inappropiate to compare because SAS/SBS is more endurance, and US SF is more physical power....

The SAS Selection course is based upon their first ever mission, where misdrops left 66 (or so) men 75 km from their RV without any decent equipment.... made them walk that in the desert heat etc....
only 22 made the RV

Originally posted by Apollyon

Originally posted by browha
A month where you go several days without sleep at a time, constantly hiking with 3-8 stone bergens, climbing extremely dangerous mountains....
How about this, if you think it is so easy, put in a request to try out for British SAS Selection. Then tell me what you think. I hear the summer selection course is easier than the Janurary selection course.

Try to get into force recon or Buds less than 1% of those tested pass for force recon and just to take the test you have to be a 1st class PFT (phyiscal fitness test) and a rifle expert.

I know.
SAS/SBS pass rate is less than 5%...
to apply for the SBS you have to be an SC 3, which is like a high-level canoeing qualification.

Originally posted by browha
If you read carefully, I actually agreed before you stepped in that it was inappropiate to compare because SAS/SBS is more endurance, and US SF is more physical power....

How do you intend to prove that?

The SAS Selection course is based upon their first ever mission, where misdrops left 66 (or so) men 75 km from their RV without any decent equipment.... made them walk that in the desert heat etc....
only 22 made the RV

Can you cite a source for that?

I cant prove it, but someone else came out with the comment.. I do have a source which agrees with it, which I am finding.

As to the first SAS mission, I know for a fact it's true, I'll try to find something online for it, but if nede be I can type out froma book

Originally posted by browha
I cant prove it, but someone else came out with the comment.. I do have a source which agrees with it, which I am finding.

This source being one of your SAS "friends," right? I don't supposed you have ever actually talked to any of the American SF guys about what they do?

Did you read Haney's book about Delta? That might open your eyes a little.

As to the first SAS mission, I know for a fact it's true, I'll try to find something online for it, but if nede be I can type out froma book

I can't wait to read that.

Upon his release from the hospital, Subaltern (2nd Lt.) Stirling headed straight for the High-Command Head-Quarters to see the Commander-in-Chief General Auchinlek. Now, the British military establishment has a strict protocol, and the chain of command was to obeyed to the letter. David knew that if he tried to get things done in an appropriate fashion, it would never come to bear fruit. So David slipped past the guard, on crutches, and hobbled into the building, hastily seeking refuge in an office. In this office was Deputy Commander Middle East General Ritchie. Ritchie was instrumental in the formation of the new unit. He read David's pencil written notes, and promptly presented the plans to Auchinlek. Both Generals saw the opportunity to use the new unit immediately, as an offensive was planned for the near future. The new unit was to consist of sixty-six men from Layforce, including seven officers and many NCO's. This independent command was to be called L Detachment, Special Air Service Brigade. This was done to make the German's think it was larger than it actually was. Stirling's dream had become reality. Index.

Thus began an unparalleled adventure in North Africa. Rommels Afrika Korps had arrived, Britain's forces where being pushed back to Egypt by the Desert Fox, and supplies to the Allies were running short as Malta lay under siege. The first mission for the SAS (November 17th 1942) was to jump behind enemy lines and gather intelligence as well as harassing and tying up German forces while the British mounted the offensive. It was a disaster. Because moral was high and the troops well trained, Stirling decided to jump despite terrible conditions. Many men never made it back, of the sixty-six who went only twenty-two returned. While disastrous, Stirling and his officers Lewes and Paddy Mayne learned much from the experience.

One of the most import innovations came from Jock Lewes, who was challenged to devise a bomb small enough to be carried which would both explode and ignite when detonated to put a plane out of action. The Lewes Bomb was created, out of oil and thermite. It would explode on top of a wing and ignite the fuel within. It weighed one pound, and one man could carry enough to decimate a squadron of planes.

The focus now changed from aircraft insertion to overland. The Long Range Desert Group, a motorized reconnaissance unit would pick up the SAS raiders, circle south and west then north to enemy territory, drop off their cargo and rendezvous at a specified point at a predetermined time. The SAS would walk to their destination, usually an airfield carrying minimal weapons and supplies. They moved mostly at night and laid up during the day to avoid German and Italian Air and foot patrols.

The most successful of all the raiders was Paddy Mayne, an Irish rugby player who's fierce determination and courage accounted for dozens of planes blown on the tarmac. At one point, out of Lewes bombs, he ripped out an aircraft control panel with his bare hands. He is a legend in the Regiment today, embodying the rugged individualism sought when recruiting Special Forces personnel.

As the SAS successes mounted, and dozens of airplanes were destroyed on the ground, the Germans started to take notice. Their activities caused Hitler to issue a shoot to kill order in which he stated "These men are dangerous." Accordingly, the German Army stepped up security and patrols in order to intercept the Raiders. This caused a change in tactics - along with the acquisition of several Jeeps. The SAS could now mount their own mobile operations. Jeeps were equipped with twin Vickers K machine guns, and became a formidable weapon, perfect for the long, rugged journeys they encountered. The jeeps formed the nucleus for mounted raids on enemy airfields. A Squadron of jeeps would enter onto the tarmac, fan out and throw a sustained series of fire , consisting of tracers at the aircraft, causing them to be torn to shreds and ignite. This caused so much confusion that casualties for the SAS tended to be light, and they could slip away back into the desert. These operations lost quite a few jeeps due to enemy fire or break-downs. The cost was insignificant compared to the amount of damage inflicted. Index.




from
here
Working on finding more sources

From Mike Morgan's Daggers Drawn,
'to recruit sixty-six Commandos...'
'More than sixty SAS officers and men in five groups were dropped from Bristol bomber aircraft, but the vicious gale-force winds scattered raiders all over the desert. Some were severly injuried on landing and many more were literally blown away into the desert, never to be seen again. Only twenty-two officers and men returned from the raid.'

you realise we are debating a hair splitting topic.

You can't for a second tell me that except for equioment
that there is a world of difference between the SAS, SBS,Spetnaz, Delta and SEALs. The differnces in quality of troops would be VERY small.

That is true
I was quite happy to leave it as it was until Cool Hand came along and started writing stuff... and Skadi too.

Originally posted by browha
That is true

I was quite happy to leave it as it was until Cool Hand came along and started writing stuff... and Skadi too.

What kind of crap is that? The whole point of your post is how much better the British SF is to everyone else. At no point do you address the fact that there may be someone as capable. All you do is keep blabbing about how much better your SF guys are.

I had agreed with Zedd that a comparison was pointless... Then you and Skadi stepped in and made me re-kindle the argument.

Originally posted by browha
I had agreed with Zedd that a comparison was pointless... Then you and Skadi stepped in and made me re-kindle the argument.

Then hy did you choose the topic for this discussion that you did?

Because I had an opinion, and after a debate, my viewpoint changed.
Read the thread before you post.

and stop picking up fag ends.

[Edited on 25-2-2004 by browha]

Originally posted by browha
Because I had an opinion, and after a debate, my viewpoint changed.
Read the thread before you post.

I actually researched all of your postings in a effort to try to figure you out. Nowhere did I see the ones that you alluded to.

Am I to assume that your opinion changed to pro SAS after the debate, seeing as how your viewpoint changed?

and stop picking up fag ends.

What the heck is that supposed to mean?

[Edited on 25-2-2004 by browha]

I was always Pro SAS in this debate, but my stance changed from being able to compare Special Forces to not being able to compare them.

The phrase, 'stop picking up fag ends' means to stop entering a conversation mid-way through, if you dont know/havent 'read' in this case, what was said before.