FLIGHT 93 - The Biggest 911 Smoking Gun!

reply to post by Boone 870


Dude, give it up. You're worse than Ivan now with the annoying repeated posts.

Sorry Ivan.

reply to post by CaptainObvious

There was a fireball when the plane impacted? Yes or No?

Yes. Not one nearly large enough or thick enough to have consumed all of the fuel, or even comparable to what we saw with the initial impacts at the WTC.

There was a clean up at the crash site along with testing the soil for Jet fuel? Yes or No?

Yes. And that is precisely why it should be easy to produce the evidence of mountains of contaminated dirt being removed from the scene, as well as the data of how much contamination there actually was.

Have you ever seen a fuel spill cleanup? I have. But I have seen no evidence of it in Shanksville.

reply to post by jackinthebox


JAck,

I dont have that information. I have photographs of the FDR.

What you may find interesting is that the eyewitness statements match that of the FDR.

I think it would be a neat trick to doctor up an FDR in a couple days to match that of several eyewitnesses, bang it up, and plant it all in a matter of a few days.

reply to post by Boone 870


You ignorantly keep expecting me to prove a negative. If there were a plane crash in Shanksville, it would have been quite obvious, and this discussion would not even be happening.

If you can't show me the fuel or the engine, then you have nothing.

reply to post by jackinthebox


I would assume that not all the fuel was consumed at impact.

There was a clean-up as thousands of cubic feet of soil was removed and investigated.

I honestly don't know how much dispersed into the ground, or how much fuel was being carried on flight 93 for that matter.

I do know that $850,000.00 was done on the clean up and inspection of the ground and water. Levels at the time of completion were considered safe per EPA regulations.




[edit on 27-4-2008 by CaptainObvious]

[edit on 27-4-2008 by CaptainObvious]

reply to post by CaptainObvious


The FDR could have been part of whatever did crash there. Like a drone perhaps.

But thank you for your honesty, and I am not saying that my suggestion is necessarily correct either. Just a plauseable scenario.

reply to post by jackinthebox


A drone that carries body parts where the DNA matches those on a commercial flight?

That would be even a neater trick... don't you think?

reply to post by CaptainObvious


Again you display integrity by revealing the limits of information you have accessed, or that may be accvessible to anyone.

I think it is safe to say that neither of us knows what happened to the fuel.

(As far as levels being safe, I would expect that they would be if there were no fuel present to begin with, or after a cleanup. Either way.)

reply to post by ULTIMA1

Like the official story the claim that Flight 93 crashed at Shanksville would not hold up in court becasue i have shown reasonable doubt.

It's a shame that you were not part of the Zacharias Moussaoui defense.

Maybe you should give him a call and offer your legal representation and file for an appeal.

reply to post by CaptainObvious


But we have no proof of biological material actually being recovered at the crash site. And even if there were, we still have no confirmation that proper chain-of-custody protocols were followed leading up to the testing of the material, and to the time of the results of those tests being published.

reply to post by jackinthebox

Dude, give it up. You're worse than Ivan now with the annoying repeated posts.

Dude, no thanks. Ivan schooled me well on the art of debating on forums.

reply to post by jackinthebox


Jack,

Do you know the protocol as to how the remains were handled?

Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller has spent almost every waking hour at the crash site with FBI agents, and is now in charge of identifying all of the passengers. "The FBI were the people that I really interacted with the most. I must tell you that I'm gonna feel better about paying my Federal Income Tax estimates now than I did prior to September 11th."

www.sfgate.com.../c/a/2002/09/11/MN64926.DTL


Wally Miller is not a federal government official.

If you have questions about the gathering of evidence, you can contact these folks:

Shanksville Volunteer Fire Co, Shanksville, PA 15560 Terry Schaffer, Chief; Rick King, Ass't Chief
Somerset County Emergency Services 100 East Union Street, Somerset, PA 15501
Westmoreland Cy Dept. of Emergency Management 12 Court House Square Greensburg, PA 15601



Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency Harrisburg, PA 17101

Paul Sledzik, Curator Armed Forces Institute of Pathology National Museum of Health and Medicine
Leader of flight 93 Disaster Mortuary (Team DMORT)

Email: [email protected]

Dr. Dennis C. Dirkmaat, Chief Scientific Advisor to Somerset County Coroner's office in the flight 93 investigation;
Director, Applied Forensic Sciences Department, Mercyhurst College, 501 E. 38th St. Erie, PA 16546

Email: [email protected]

I posted information about DMORT on my other DNA thread ... but here:

www.dmort.org...

Please Jack, keep in mind, personal articles of the victims were found and returned to families. Again... once heck of a neat trick to plant this stuff on a drone?

Since receiving the personal effects of Flight 93 passengers from the FBI in early November, Douglass has been preparing the items for return. For example, about two weeks ago, FBI agents presented the wedding ring and wallet of passenger Andrew Garcia to his wife, Dorothy, in Portola Valley, Calif.

But before the FBI delivered the ring to Garcia, which was inscribed with "All my love, 8-2-69," Douglass sent it to a jeweler for cleaning and repair.

Around Thanksgiving, Jerry and Beatrice Guadagno of Ewing, N.J., received word that their son Richard's credentials and badge from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service had been found by the FBI at the crash site.

"It was practically intact," Richard's sister, Lori, said of the credentials, which were returned in their wallet. "It just looked like it wasn't damaged or hadn't gone through much of anything at all, which is so bizarre and ironic.

"Everything takes on an extra special meaning, especially when there's so little that you have."

Hendrix and Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller said for most of the other families, the personal effects and the remains of the crash victims will be returned at the same time in mid-February.

"We haven't wanted to bother the families with the return of property without the return of remains," Hendrix said. "The last thing we want is confusion, with them thinking, 'Is this the last thing we're going to get back or is there more?' " –

www.post-gazette.com...

Originally posted by jackinthebox
........, and to the time of the results of those tests being published.

some more info for you Jack:

The coroner's assessment came yesterday as he confirmed that the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory has used DNA samples to match recovered remains with the last of 40 crew members and passengers aboard the hijacked jetliner 14 weeks ago when it slammed into a recovered strip mine at around 500 mph.

Miller has kept control of the crash site, under watch by security guards hired by United Airlines, expecting a possible final search for remains in the spring.

Remains of passengers and crew identified so far should be released in February to families or for burial, entombment or cremation in the Somerset County area, depending on families' preferences, Miller said. Unidentified remains, yielding no DNA information, will be "treated properly," probably interred or entombed in the county, according to the coroner.

www.post-gazette.com...

reply to post by jackinthebox

You ignorantly keep expecting me to prove a negative. If there were a plane crash in Shanksville, it would have been quite obvious, and this discussion would not even be happening.

You ignorantly keep expecting me to prove a negative.

Negative proof, the fallacy of appealing to lack of proof of the negative, is a logical fallacy.

Please provide sources that state that there was no fuel at the crash site of Flight 93. This is your argument so you have to back it up.

Originally posted by jackinthebox


But we have no proof of biological material actually being recovered at the crash site.

Some info on this as well:

www.washingtonpost.com...

As coroner, responsible for returning human remains, Miller has been forced to share with the families information that is unimaginable. As he clinically recounts to them, holding back very few details, the 33 passengers, seven crew and four hijackers together weighed roughly 7,000 pounds. They were essentially cremated together upon impact. Hundreds of searchers who climbed the hemlocks and combed the woods for weeks were able to find about 1,500 mostly scorched samples of human tissue totaling less than 600 pounds, or about 8 percent of the total.

reply to post by jackinthebox

Yes. Not one nearly large enough or thick enough to have consumed all of the fuel, or even comparable to what we saw with the initial impacts at the WTC.

Did you witness the fireball? Do you have any video or photographs of the actual fireball?

What experience do you have to base your opinion on?

www.postgazette.com...

By today, Environmental Resources Management Inc. of Pine, a contractor hired by United, expects to return 5,000 to 6,000 cubic yards of soil to the 50-foot hole dug around the crater left by the crash.

The soil is being tested for jet fuel, and at least three test wells have been sunk to monitor groundwater, since three nearby homes are served by wells, Betsy Mallison, a state Department of Environmental Protection spokeswoman, said.

So far, no contamination has been discovered, she said.

reply to post by Boone 870

Please provide sources that state that there was no fuel at the crash site of Flight 93. This is your argument so you have to back it up.

Yawn. You really have no idea what logic is do you?

If I don't see jet fuel, there's no jet fuel. If you want me to see jet fuel, show it to me.

reply to post by Boone 870

Did you witness the fireball? Do you have any video or photographs of the actual fireball?

I have seen one photograph that is claimed to be the burst-plume just after impact. However, it is gray instead of black, indicating an ordnance burst, not a fuel fire. Furthermore, the column is almost non-existant, indicating little to know post-burst burn.

What experience do you have to base your opinion on?

Plenty.

Of course there was no fuel fire or any fuel on site because......



There was no plane.

No fuel
No fire
No parts
No Plane
NO DOUBT.