FLIGHT 93 - The Biggest 911 Smoking Gun!

Originally posted by Boone 870
Now, a question for you. How would an engine ending up 2000 feet away from

Well there are 2 theories that would explain the ENGINE CORE to be a large distance away from the crash site.

1. The plane was undergoing severe G forces and the engine was ripped off the plane.

2. The plane was hit by a missile or gun fire and the engine came off the plane.

[edit on 27-4-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
.did they find either of the CSDs? If you don't know what that means, then you don't know how to incvestigte an airplane crash......

Thanks for the basic engine course but i do k=know how a jet engine works. That still does not explain the core being found 2,000 feet away.

Oh yes, CSD is Constant Speed Drive, the J79 GE-15 that are in the RF-4C has them on the front of the engine.

The T-38 J85-GE-5 engine has a 2 speed gearbox that sites under the engine.


[edit on 27-4-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by ULTIMA1


Read the FDR. The plane was not falling apart or hit by a missile.

Cabin pressure - NORMAL. Hydraulics - NORMAL. Cargo fire - NORMAL. Smoke - NORMAL. Engines - RUNNING. Engine RPM (N1) 70% . Fuel pressure - NORMAL. Engine vibration - LO. Wind direction - WEST. Wind speed - 25 kts. Pitch angle - 40 deg down. Airspeed - 500 kts. Heading - 180 deg. Roll angle - 150 deg right. AoA - 20 deg negative

/myayp


Oh... I guess this FDR was fraudulent just like the one at the Pentagon.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
Read the FDR. The plane was not falling apart or hit by a missile.

Then can you provide evidence of the 2 distant debris fields and the engine core found 2,000 feet away.



[edit on 27-4-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by ULTIMA1


yes. There were 2 debris fields. There was a part of an engine found quite a distance from the impact point.

I agree with you.

Tell me...

How much did that part weigh?

What was found in the debris field furthest away from the impact point?
(i know the answer so you better do your homework)

reply to post by ULTIMA1

1. The plane was undergoing severe G forces and the engine was ripped off the plane.

The FDR does not support this, neither do the eyewitnesses.

2. The plane was hit by a missile or gun fire and the engine came off the plane.

The FDR does not support this, neither do the eyewitnesses.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
yes. There were 2 debris fields. There was a part of an engine found quite a distance from the impact point.

I agree with you.

Well at least i got you to agree with me to that point.

Now there were 2 distinct debris fields that were quite a distance away (not counting the engine core)

The 2 debris fiields contain small piecies fo debris and before you say anything about the wind blowing it there i suggest you do research.

911research.wtc7.net...

Some officials have suggested that wind scattered the debris once on the ground, but wind certainly couldn't have blown a one-ton engine a half-mile, nor could the 9-mile-per-hour wind have blown debris for eight miles.

An article in Popular Mechanics attempts to explain the far-flung debris by suggesting that the engine "tumbl[ed] across the ground" and that the light debris was "blasted skyward by the heat of the explosion from the crash." Such scenarios are impossible given the nature of the crash, wherein the plane dove into the soft ground from a nearly vertical trajectory.

reply to post by ULTIMA1


Your source states "1/2 mile". Which one is it, 2000 feet, 2000 yards, or 1/2 mile?

Your source also states "near vertical". Since when is 41° near vertical?

Originally posted by Boone 870
Your source also states "near vertical". Since when is 41° near vertical?

What is your source for 41 degrees. I also believe the witnesses stated near vertical.



[edit on 27-4-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Get a model airplane (or just use your hand) to visualize it.

Roll the model (or hand) 150 degrees to the right, then angle it down at 40 degrees.

NOW you can see in your mind the angle of impact.

Did one engine break away just split-seconds before impact? Did the DFDR record the impact, and the G-forces, or was power removed from the #1 bus a few split-seconds before impact? (That would be consistent with the #1 engine shearing off, since it would take its generator with it)...

Just one scenario to consider....why not investigate that possibility?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Did one engine break away just split-seconds before impact?

If one engine broke away before impact why did it break away?

G forces, explosion?

By the way can you show me the Flight 93 FDR data from the NTSB, i only have the Flght 77 FDR data?

reply to post by ULTIMA1


You don't have to suggest i do research Ultima. Your truther site can't even get the appropriate wind speed correct. It was 9 KNOTS not 9MPH... but hey no big deal.....


Here is some info for you:

Robert Sherman, a conventional weapons expert with the Federation of American Scientists who worked for the state department as former executive director of the Arms Control and Non-Proliferation Advisory Board, and also wrote extensively about F-16s and Sidewinder missiles, looked at the missile theories on flight93crash.com and deemed it "the usual paranoid crap."

"There was nothing there that gets me very worked up," he says. "Maybe [the plane] did break up. A crash is not a sanitary event. By definition, the uncontrolled impact of an airplane does strange things."

Sherman said that if a missile had hit Flight 93, there would have been more evidence. "If a Sidewinder had hit it, there would have been pieces of the fan or the fuselage in a larger area," he says. "If the engine breaks up, then the fan blades are going to come off like bullets. Pieces of the wing and fuselage would be all over the place."

web.archive.org...://www.pittsburghpulp.com/content/2002/11_28/news_cover_story.shtml

Your truther site attempts to discredit popular mechanics without an explanation....

Here:

Jeff Reinbold, the National Park Service representative responsible for the Flight 93 National Memorial, confirms the direction and distance from the crash site to the basin: just over 300 yards south, which means the fan landed in the direction the jet was traveling. "It's not unusual for an engine to move or tumble across the ground," says Michael K. Hynes, an airline accident expert who investigated the crash of TWA Flight 800 out of New York City in 1996. "When you have very high velocities, 500 mph or more," Hynes says, "you are talking about 700 to 800 ft. per second. For something to hit the ground with that kind of energy, it would only take a few seconds to bounce up and travel 300 yards."

www.popularmechanics.com...

So your site is not attacking Popular Mechanics, they are suggesting Michael Hynes who is an airline accident expert is wrong. Without their own professional explanation.

As far as the debris found away from the impact point?

FBI AGENT CROWLEY:

Crowley said that debris from the crash has been found in New Baltimore, Pa., which is 8 miles away from the crash scene, and Indian Lake, which is 2 1/2 miles away from the crash scene. Crowley said that NTSB officials said that it is probable that the debris in New Baltimore is from the crash.

The debris found in New Baltimore include paper and nylon, Crowley said. He said that the debris found is lightweight and easily can be carried by the wind. At the time of the crash, there was wind speed of 9 knots per hour heading to the southeast. Both Indian Lake and New Baltimore are southeast of the crash scene.

Jim Brant, owner of Indian Lake Marina, said he rushed outside Tuesday morning when he heard the roar of jet engines overhead, then saw a fireball rise into the air. The wind was strong that morning, Brant said, and within minutes debris from the crash was "falling like confetti."

www.thepittsburghchannel.com...

Investigators say they've found debris from the crash at least eight miles away from the crash site.

A second debris field was around Indian Lake about 3 miles from the crash scene. Some debris was in the lake and some was adjacent to the lake. More debris from the plane was found in New Baltimore, some 8 miles away from the crash.

State police and the FBI initially said they didn't want to speculate whether the debris was from the crash, or if the plane could have broken up in midair. Investigators later said the debris was all very light material, such as paper and thin nylon the wind would easily blow. The wind was blowing towards Indian Lake and New Baltimore at 9 knots [10.5 mph]. "According to the NTSB, it is not only possible that the debris is from the crash, it is probable," Crowley said.

www.cnn.com...

Fleegle, marina owner Jim Brant and two of Brant's employees were among the dozens who witnessed the crash from Indian Lake. Fleegle had just returned to the marina to get fuel for a boat that had run out of gas when Carol Delasko called him into the drydock barn to watch news of the World Trade Center attack.

"All of a sudden the lights flickered and we joked that maybe they were coming for us. Then we heard engines screaming close overhead. The building shook. We ran out, heard the explosion and saw a fireball mushroom," said Fleegle, pointing to a clearing on a ridge at the far end of the lake.

Delasko, who ran outside moments later, said she thought someone had blown up a boat on the lake. "It just looked like confetti raining down all over the air above the lake," she said.

Fleegle, Brant and a fellow marina worker, Tom Spinelli, jumped in a truck and rushed to the crash site.

In the woods, they saw only a crater and tiny pieces of debris.

Fleegle said he climbed on the roof of an abandoned cabin and tossed down a burning seat cushion that had landed there.

www.flight93crash.com...

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
All of a sudden the lights flickered and we joked that maybe they were coming for us.

Fleegle said he climbed on the roof of an abandoned cabin and tossed down a burning seat cushion that had landed there.

Gee, i wonder what casued the lights to flicker, maybe a plane with a jammer?


So i guess the wind blew the seat cushion on the roof, or was it the explosion that blew it up onto the roof ?

[edit on 27-4-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Did one engine break away just split-seconds before impact?

If one engine broke away before impact why did it break away?

G forces, explosion?

By the way can you show me the Flight 93 FDR data from the NTSB, i only have the Flght 77 FDR data?

ULTIMA, Boone posted a link, in his reply to me, page 101, about midway.

Enjoy!

Originally posted by weedwhacker
ULTIMA, Boone posted a link, in his reply to me, page 101, about midway.

Enjoy!

Is it data from the NTSB ?

If not i can do another FOIA request and get it from the NTSB.

OK i noticed the info Boone posted is from the autopilot not the FDR data.

[edit on 27-4-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by ULTIMA1


www.gwu.edu...

I posted this link earlier ..obviously you missed it.

what a surprise.

reply to post by ULTIMA1


ULTIMA!!! Read the whole thing, not just the title!!!!!!

There is info on fuel consumption and airspeeds.....AND the FDR records autoflight activity!!!!!!!

Sheesh!

Originally posted by ULTIMA1


Gee, i wonder what casued the lights to flicker, maybe a plane with a jammer?


So i guess the wind blew the seat cushion on the roof, or was it the explosion that blew it up onto the roof ?

Of all the information I posted, Professional statements, and eyewitness accounts, this is the reply I get.

Should I have expected anything else from you?... a commercial plane equipped with a jammer? Wow... just Wow.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
There is info on fuel consumption and airspeeds.....AND the FDR records autoflight activity!!!!!!!

Thats ok, i would rather have thre FDR data from the NTSB.

It should not take too long to get it, it only took a couple days to get the Flight 77 FDR data.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
Should I have expected anything else from you?... a commercial plane equipped with a jammer? Wow... just Wow.

Did i say a commercial plane had a jammer?

Why must you twist and misquote what i post?