CIA Operation "Pliers" Uncovered in Venezuela

reply to post by GreenFloyd


I watched this and that it was basura, er, sorry, trash. What chavez had to say in the video is IMO on the same level as the comments posted with the video.

That was freaky on page 4... I was like "Where is that coming from?!" before scrolling down and finding the video.

Ok so as far as I can tell this has been the usual back and forth, but has anyone considered that this is simply disinfo? Maybe the memo was leaked or made easily stolen? These are the masters of deception after all.

The goals described in the article certainly fit the modus operandi of the CIA, but I have to think that considering the nature of a screw up this big, an alternate explanation may make more sense.

On April 12, 2002, White House spokesperson Ari Fleischer stated:

Let me share with you the administration's thoughts about what's taking place in Venezuela. It remains a somewhat fluid situation. But yesterday's events in Venezuela resulted in a change in the government and the assumption of a transitional authority until new elections can be held...

Source

A top secret CIA document from April 14, 2002 shows concern that Latin American governments will view U.S. foreign policy as “hypocritical” because of its sole endorsement of the Carmona coup government. The CIA also seems surprised that the region of Latin America so quickly rejected the coup in Venezuela and that the Carmona government “stunningly collapsed”, which demonstrates a possible out-of-date view of the hemisphere and a failure in intelligence gathering and analysis.

Source

The outcome of the Referendum of December 2 is a major historical event first and foremost for Venezuela but also for the rest of the Americas. A positive vote (Vota 'Sí') will provide the legal framework for the democratization of the political system, the socialization of strategic economic sectors, empower the poor and provide the basis for a self-managed factory system
...

A decisive vote for 'Sí' will not end US military and political destabilization campaigns but it will certainly undermine and demoralize their collaborators. On December 2, 2007 the Venezuelans have a rendezvous with history.

Source

reply to post by Hot_Wings


You are nuts if you think the CIA is a good organization- they kill, manipulate, and answer to no authority- They are running around the world forcing people to do things and or killing them. It needs to go before it double crosses us. YOU ARE MIS-INFORMED!

reply to post by apc


Unfortunately, the chance that ANY of our news and information being leaked disinfo is roughly 50/50. That being what it is, this could very well be some leaked B.S.


However, you do raise a good point and we should NEVER totally throw out the possibility.


J


EDIT TO ADD: Yea, that crap on page 4 freaked me out as well. Darn faulty embedding

[edit on 29-11-2007 by SimiusDei]

Here is another story relevant to this thread.


Students Stage Anti-Chavez Rally


This actually fits the layout of the possible CIA plan. Could this be that plan in action? Or just a lot of Venezuelans SICK of Chavez?

Once again, it's a 50/50.


J

reply to post by SimiusDei


I don't think it's CIA stuff. Your link said this plot was discovered by Venezuelan counterintel. Now, yes, this is the sort of thing that the CIA has historically done, but you have to bear in mind this is propaganda master Hugo Chavez we are talking about. I think he's cooked up the whole thing to bolster support for his rotten regime.

reply to post by Jim_Kraken


You are probably correct. I was more-so trying to make a point.


Seeing as how Chavez is an evil *snip* and the CIA is made up of evil *snips*, perhaps they should just work together under the goal of enslaving the planet.

Wait, maybe they already are......*shifty eyes*



Jasn

reply to post by SimiusDei


That's half funny and half scary...but I guess that's at least better than being all scary!

Originally posted by centurion1211

Nice thought for an idealistic world.

However, back to reality, the first thing a dictator does is make sure that it is almost impossible for anyone to challenge their power. So, your idea to let the people handle it is both naive and unrealistic. Have you not been reading the news about chavez's referendum? The main purpose is to allow him to retain power indefinately, plus give himself even more power.

perhaps a little education on the subject will help you out. if chavez is such a dictator, why, good sir, did the people vote him in 3, count em 3 times?

and get this, the recall referendum, which was put into the 1999 Venezuelan constitution by Hugo Chavez (and subsequently approved by the constitutional assembly) allows a vote to oust him. Got that? he put into the consitution that he could be tossed out if a majority of the people wanted it. They initially got the signatures to have a recall, and the same percentage of votes were cast to leave him in office as were cast to originally elect him (59%) Some dictator right?

The Constitutional Assembly itself drafted the new 1999 Venezuelan Constitution. With 350 articles, the document was, as drafted, one of the world's lengthiest constitutions.

It also increased the presidential term of office from five to six years and introduced a presidential two-term limit. The document also introduced provisions for national presidential recall referendums — that is, Venezuelan voters now were to be given the right to remove their president from office before the expiration of the presidential term. Such referendums were to be activated upon provision of petitions with a valid number of signatures.

The president can ask the legislature to reconsider portions of laws he finds objectionable, but a simple parliamentary majority can override these objections.

does this sound like the kind of constitution of a dictator? come on man.

plus the constitution created a Public Defender in charge of regulating the president and national assembly. (these are what we call checks and balances)

also, he is trying to be able to run for president in 2012 Yes he would have to be elected by a popular vote (again) to do that, but (his own) constittution only allows a 2 term limit if the national assembly votes to not let him, he cant period. Its not a power grab by Chavez, if anything his new constitution has limited his powers.

what exactly does the US have against Chavez? he has improved the conditions of the people in his country dramatically.

According to Datos Information Resources, family income amongst the poorest stratum grew more than 150% between 2003 and 2006

President Chávez initiated a program to provide cheaper heating fuel for low income families in several areas of the United States. The program was expanded in September 2006 to include four of New York City's five boroughs, earmarking 25 million gallons of fuel for low-income New York residents at 40% off the wholesale market price. That quantity provides sufficient fuel to heat 70,000 apartments, covering 200,000 New Yorkers, for the entire winter

ill bet you anything this is part of why he is "evil" and must be removed...

On April 30, 2007 Chávez announced that Venezuela would be formally pulling out of the IMF and the World Bank, having paid off its debts five years ahead of schedule, saving US $8 million in doing so.
he charged them with being an imperial tool that aims to exploit poor countries

(and he is right, read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman")

the other part is this..
www.abc.net.au...

he is effectively preventing foreign exploitation of his countries natural resources. Something the global oil interests frown upon. if you dont give in to this exploitation you are marked for "regime change" Just like iran in the 50's and just like Saudi Arabia WOULD be if they didnt play ball. and thats when the CIA comes in to play its games.
thats the game, and he isnt playing it.
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Hot_Wings


Good Job stand up for what you beleive in! While you are being so passionate about it, it might help to also let the viewing public know what is going on down there right now and how it is affecting our OIL ! Yes I said it OIL, the current life sustaining blood of our commerce.and if we want to stay a world power without being thrown to the wolves, I do agree we need to let the Agency handle its business. I do not think they are always on the level when it comes to the people, but they do have their agendas, some of them good.

reply to post by turbokid


Hey Turbo that sounds good on paper. Let me ask you when was the last time you got down to Ven. You know paper does make things sound good when they are not... it is all in how you write it... but truly and mark my word when it comes time to change things for himself (which he will) no one is going to oppose him. The people are scared of him, take a walk down the streets you can then see what I mean. and what is it with all these people defending marxists and such this, the USA. I am getting sick and tired of all these kids wearing shirts with CHE on them like he is some kind of hero. He was a butcher just like castro and pol-pot and Amin, they said they were for the people and then commited murder. Now is no diff. You can recite anybodies PEOPLES CONSTITUTION and reforms but, it is not the peoples and you very well know it. I am not trying to insult you but I am tired of these College Professors teaching Socialism and Marxism in our "Centers of Higher Education" you should be less worried about a foreign intelligence agency than with the people undermining our kids minds our very future here at home.

reply to post by birchtree



well im not in college and no professor has even talked to me. so i dont know where your going with that?
what i do know is that given the CIA's past actions, drug trafficking, coup backing elections meddling.. etc. in several countries puts a bad taste in my mouth. In fact a quick glimps through history tells me that nearly every "threat" or evil dictator we face today is the result of past CIA actions. Bin laden, Saddam, terrorism, iran. Nearly all created to fight the old enemy, communism. And in some cases we later found out that leaders we thought were being helped or becoming communist themselves had no contact with the soviets, it was all hogwash.
Thats exactly what happens, "they" find some leader unwilling to cooperate with corporate plunderers, then the propaganda starts.. he oppresses his own people, he is a cruel dictator.. blah blah. that gets popular support for the coming "regime change" and it works every time. You are concerned with the poor citizens of venezuela, but not a word is said about the human and womens rights violations in Saudi Arabia.. why? because they play ball. If tomorrow the Saudi kings said, "no more foreign oil companies can pump oil here, and we will be selling oil in euros" the propaganda machine would go into overtime and you would see the "evil" saudi regime doing public beheadings and lashing women. And there would be an outcry for regime change from the dictatorship it really is to a democracy. And that new leader would be a willing business associate. Its happend several times.
In reality they dont care about the people suffering, they just use that to gain support for their mission. If they cared about people and i mean really cared, there would be alot more regime change in africa, and alot more food and medicine sent there. But our sympathy is selective depending on the local resources available.

do you think if this wasnt goin on..

Petróleos de Venezuela S.A. has estimated that the Orinoco Belt has 236 billion barrels of heavy crude, which would make it the largest petroleum reserve in the world, before Saudi Arabia Estimates goes as far as 300 billion barrels

we would give two rat turds about some random 3rd world country and the plight of their people???? HA !!


[edit on 30-11-2007 by turbokid]

[edit on 30-11-2007 by turbokid]

reply to post by turbokid


Does the CIA's actions give Chavez license to behave like an autocrat? No, they don't.

Originally posted by Jim_Kraken
reply to post by turbokid

 

Does the CIA's actions give Chavez license to behave like an autocrat? No, they don't.

no, but. if it was a CIA backed coup that INSTALLED chavez and he allowed foreign oil interests in his country, not a single word would be spoke of his "autocracy" not one word. thats the point im making. FAR worse leaders have been installed or supported by the CIA. Iran, Chile, Saudi arabia. egypt, pakistan.. shall i continue?

[edit on 30-11-2007 by turbokid]

reply to post by turbokid


Point taken, but two wrongs still don't make a right.

Originally posted by LordBaskettIV
reply to post by aaaaa

 

They have guns there right? Or is that something only the CIA can get for you?

my,my,my, how well accustomed you are to the lifestyle that the US government and yes the CIA has afforded you. the US is the only country in the American continent that citizens can legally own guns (unless chile is an exception, have to check on that one)
so sleep tigh mr michigan, those charged with keeping you free are doing their jobs.

Originally posted by turbokid
reply to post by birchtree

 

do you think if this wasnt goin on..we would give two rat turds about some random 3rd world country and the plight of their people???? HA !!

I will not argue the point that sometimes ulterior motives are given to quelsch the whining of some of those that would oppose our governments clandestine actions. but get this straight: AS LONG AS IT BENEFITS MY FAMILY, FRIENDS AND FELLOW AMERICANS (yes even you) I FOR ONE AM HAPPY that the CIA is doing their thankless job and will back hem 100%.

I just wish governemnts would stop meddling in other country's business