My Professor is a Freemason

Originally posted by spirit7

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
reply to post by spirit7

 

No, I just think you are overly paranoid of those with Christian faith and think the Bible is written by some people who want to dictate what you should believe.

Originally posted by spirit7
I just think there is much more room for corruption in a support group like the Freemasons rather then a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Hmmmm. Now who seems to be demonstrating paranoia? I guess you also overlooked the post where I mentioned I'm an Anglican. In case you're unfamiliar with it, Anglicans are the second-oldest Christian faith and the original Protestant sect. What does bother me are people who insist their way is the only way, presume that my faith is lacking somehow and proceed to try to stuff their faith down my throat despite me saying I'm very happy with the faith I was born and raised in. I resent people who feel their place in life is to foist their belief system onto others. That's the quick way to religious strife. And you want to know something. Even if the world were all Christian, the Christian sects would have at each other in the same way as happened in Northern Ireland.

THAT is why religion and politics don't get discussed in the Lodge room. Because they are the two subjects that will most assuredly bring men who are otherwise of good will to each other's throats.

Originally posted by spirit7
I do not get the warm and fuzzies from what I have seen around the internet and the feelings that I get from my brother in law when he brags about all of his pay raises and the OT that he gets when he pulls out his pay stub in just about every conversation.

It seems your brother-in-law in a blow-hard and that has everything to do with his personality and nothing to do with Masonry. Masonry is intended to make good men better but if the man's a blow-hard to begin with and isn't self-aware enough to change himself, the fault for that lies in his own persona.

You can lead a horse to water........

reply to post by spirit7


Surely you jest if you don't know about indulgences. They are something covered in any introductory class on world religion. While I don't normally endorse wikipedia as a source, the article will do since if I pointed you to a peer reviewed article you wouldn't be able to access it unless you paid for the subscription:en.wikipedia.org... The practice of paying for indulgences or gaining them for future acts of sin was stopped in the late 1500's if I recall, but the point is to demonstrate that Christianity certainly DOES like to play on our guilt.

Since your church is Lutheran, and one of Martin Luther's main qualms against the Catholic Church was the sale of indulgences, I suppose you could claim that "your" church would never do this. But the fact remains that all of Christendom is a decedent of these types of practices. At the very least, Luther's dogma caused at least one war where many people had to die - over your Church's dogma. The point is not to assign guilt or to say who is wrong, but to point out that all churches are wrong and at some point have heavily abused the authority given to them.

Today, many churches use this authority by attacking institutions that they do not like. Some leaders use their positions to attack Democrat party politics in the United States - while others quietly spread untruth and misgivings about masonry. Both are different but equally wrong, as it is not the position of THE CHURCH to declare what is moral and immoral - that is, even for you, left up to the Bible. But would churches cede this authority to their own holy book, they would lose much power. And unfortunately, that is what many church leaders are after - power.

I am similar with you on some theology, spirit7, but I strongly believe that God holds that all people have free will. While I believe there is only "one right path," it is not my job to force people to convert or to cause strife by stirring up religious matters. My job is to live my life as God commands, and let others decide for themselves. If the Bible is truly truth and there is only one right path, then you must agree that people would be able to find it on their own, right?

Finally, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, why would you expect to get "the warm and fuzzies" from masonic ritual or freemasons? Masonry is not a religion nor are freemasons worshippers of any single religion. Just as I am sure you do not get the warm and fuzzies from passing an Rotary club, it would be usual for you to get them when interacting with masonry since it does not exist to perform such a function.

Concerning your brother in law, your are committing a fallacy of hasty generalization. Again, from Wikipedia: "Hasty generalization is a logical fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence. It commonly involves basing a broad conclusion upon the statistics of a survey of a small group that fails to sufficiently represent the whole population." There is reason or evidence to support that your brother (a small sample) somehow represents all of masonry. None. In fact, no single person can represent the whole fraternity. Do not make conclusions about the whole institution based on one person.

[edit on 24-11-2007 by LightinDarkness]

"There is reason or evidence to support that your brother (a small sample) somehow represents all of masonry."

No, I'm sorry. I guess I've been struggling with myself to find my own answers about myself. And I guess I "sort of" bought into the anti-masonry stuff that's floating around on the internet. You know what, I'm just not going to worry about it any more. Heck, I have a big headache over this stuff and none of it really matters, LOL.

I'm going to stop trying to prove you guys wrong now and go back to following one simple philosphy - "Just love em".

I think I hear you on the dogma. Thanks for the talk bros.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon



Oh yeah Fitz, SEMPER FI!

How spelling can change your words

But the fact remains that all of Christendom is a decedent

To many the day that christianity ( at least in its present form) becomes deceased will be a day for celebration.

it would be usual for you to get them when interacting with masonry since it does not exist to perform such a function.

I think you were trying to say UNusual. but I could be wrong.

Originally posted by runningbeer
How spelling can change your words

Yes, I misspelled some words - I was typing quickly and was not careful in reading over what I wrote. But the intention of the posts, as you were able to surmise, does seem to remain clear.

In fact I would go back over it and edit it correctly, but I don't see the button...

[edit on 26-11-2007 by LightinDarkness]

In fact I would go back over it and edit it correctly, but I don't see the button...

I think there is a time limit for editing but am not sure.

perhaps to demonstrate my previous point consider this

I know you think
you understand
what you
thought I said.
But,
what you thought you heard
was not
what I meant.

[edit on 11/27/2007 by runningbeer]

reply to post by runningbeer


Maybe I should try also:

Oh, its quite clear
you were attempting
to get in on some Christian bashing.
I just choose
to ignore it.

Yep.

Freemasonry has declared war to Christianity indeed.

I wonder if your "professor" also has found out, that Satan is his true god like the 32nd and 33rd ranked Freemasons.


Do you have the greatness in you!!!

to get in on some Christian bashing.

No need. They do it quite well for themselves.
Just pointing out how a simple misspelling can take a subject off topic ( as this has done). But you are right in one thing, I am not a christian . At least not as
christianity is taught today or as it has been taught since it became paulianity.

Originally posted by Paul the seeker
Yep.

Freemasonry has declared war to Christianity indeed.

I guess you're unfamiliar with the many and sundry posts by self-described 'Christians' here that give the religion of the Prince of Peace a really bad name. No, if anything, it's a certain subset of Christians who (while showing as much actual knowledge of Freemasonry as they have of foreign cultures) have declared war on Freemasonry. Never let a little knowledge get in the way of a good ostracization.

Originally posted by Paul the seeker
I wonder if your "professor" also has found out, that Satan is his true god like the 32nd and 33rd ranked Freemasons.

I wonder if this 'fact' will ever disappear or whether generations of clueless twits-to-come will keep resurrecting it and get all upset when it's pointed out to them yet again that it has no basis in reality. It just doesn't seem to cross their minds how it is that some non-Mason who's imparted this nugget of 'wisdom' to them could know what thousands upon thousands of active Masons don't. I guess they're unfamiliar with the concept of "agenda".

Originally posted by Paul the seeker


I wonder if your "professor" also has found out, that Satan is his true god like the 32nd and 33rd ranked Freemasons.

You've been deceived. The true God of Mason is not Satan, but Santa. I blame your confusion on your buying into all that anti-Masonic Internet garbage written by dyslexics.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Paul the seeker


I wonder if your "professor" also has found out, that Satan is his true god like the 32nd and 33rd ranked Freemasons.

You've been deceived. The true God of Mason is not Satan, but Santa. I blame your confusion on your buying into all that anti-Masonic Internet garbage written by dyslexics.

ROTFLMFAO

----------------------------------

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[edit on 28/11/07 by masqua]

Here is some info on the order of the Eastern Star from wikopedia, a very reputable website. The order of the Eastern Star is associated with Freemasonry, in fact their meetings are opened by a Freemason Grand Mastor. The order of the eastern star allows females and is why it's only associated but it's freemasonry non the less. Notice the inverted pentagram pictures that I would say resembles baphomet. In my opinion, the majority of Freemasons that I've spoken to either on the internet or in person seem to have some sort of problem with the Christian churches, the way the Holy Bible is written, and Christianity in general. Man, if I could have Jesus's blessing to go undercover to see what rituals and what the beliefs are then I would do it but I cannot submit myself to something so disturbing.

en.wikipedia.org...

First: runningbeer - I want to say thank you. Christian bashers have done much to convert me and others to the religion. Your type demonstrates much in the way of irrational hatred and it illuminates that there MUST be something of substance in the religion since you hate it so much. Thanks!

Second: Masonic Light - that was quite possibly the funniest thing I've read on this board. L O L! I hope Santa is good to me this year, I've been a good mason!

Originally posted by Paul the seeker
Yep.

Freemasonry has declared war to Christianity indeed.

I wonder if your "professor" also has found out, that Satan is his true god like the 32nd and 33rd ranked Freemasons.


Do you have the greatness in you!!!

Oh, gee, even more baseless accusations! You know, Paul, you've crossed the line from simply being absurd to actually amusing me. I appreciate it, I need the laugh.

I am a christian and a (gasp) 32nd degree mason (which by the way means nothing, master mason is the highest degree). I remember the 32nd degree quite well and I have read Morals and Dogma. Sadly for you, there is no reference to Satan in the 32nd degree..or any of the degrees.

What are you doing is taking the now completely debunked quote form Morals and Dogma about "the morning star." And even if Pike himself told us all to worship satan and have masonic orgies (mmm, orgies!) - yet again - unfortunately for you neither Pike nor Morals and Dogma represent the opinion of Scottish Rite Freemasonry.

And of course, the rabid anti-masons forget to actually read Morals and Dogma. If they did, they might find all the not-so-satanic quotes on believing in GOD and balancing it with REASON:

"So, when the equipoise of Reason and Faith, in the individual or the Nation, and the alternating preponderance cease, the result is, according as one or the other is permanent victor, Atheism or Superstition, disbelief or blind credulity; and the Priests either of Unfaith or of Faith become despotic."
- Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma

Yeah, you won't find that one on the Masonic conspiracy sites. Too bad they don't actually...you know... read the book in context. Then they wouldn't have anything to make conspiracies about.

[edit on 30-11-2007 by LightinDarkness]

reply to post by spirit7


I am not an expert on the Eastern Star. I do, however, have the credentials to talk about religious symbolism (who knew a BA in religion was worth anything, eh?).

The "inverse pentagram" is an innocuous symbol that predates the invention (and it was an invention) of modern "satanism." In fact, the ideals that it represents predates satanism, which distorts and perverts its meaning. Satanists also enjoy taking crosses and turn them upside down - but do you scoff at a cross "right side up"? Does the meaning of a upright cross change simply because someone else turns it upside down? No. The same thing is going on with the "inverted pentagram" of the Eastern Star. Yet again...we find that there is nothing evil going on.

Also, you are assuming the masons you talk to somehow reflect masonry as a whole. Unless you are taking a random sample and asking methodologically sound survey questions, do not generalize freemasonry with your "experiences" because you are incorrect. I am a mason AND a Christian, and I have no problem with Christianity or masonry.

Why do you feel you have to go "undercover" to see the ritual? Google it, its all available on the internet. Read it for yourself. You will find something that is completely mundane, because the ritual is nothing but a morality play. Masons find it meaningful because they have a shared sense of morality that matches the plays - nothing more, nothing less.

I have changed my signature now because I find myself having to say this over and over: look hard enough, and YOU WILL find evil where none exists.

Freemasonry refuses to mention our Almighty Lord's name Jesus Christ and only refer to God as the grand architecht of the universe as a "supreme being". How in the world can you call yourself a Christian and a Freemason at the same time? You can only have one or the other. You don't really believe that you are not worshipping anyone other then our lord Jesus Christ while you practice it do you? I'm really beginning to think that you believe Jesus Christ was just a mortal man and now I'm beginning to peice together my father in law was getting at with his suggestion or hint of a possible blood line. How can you swear on the Holy Bible while worshipping a "supreme being" and not Jesus Christ! You need to search your soul. Or do you just believe that the Holy Bible is all just a lie? I must be "in the dark" then, right? You Freemasons are no better then anyone else.

Freemasonry is so secretive that I'm not going to look it up on the internet. I mean c'mon who are we kidding here?

[edit on 1-12-2007 by spirit7]

reply to post by spirit7

Here is some info on the order of the Eastern Star from wikopedia, a very reputable website.

I like Wiki. However, if I do real research I do it from books most likely, and if I am not in the mood for books, I look up solid sources from real historians, as Wiki is mostly historic. Wiki however is not a "very reputable" site by anymeans, as any one who wants to can alter it in any way. Be it right or wrong. Been proven many times.

The order of the Eastern Star is associated with Freemasonry, in fact their meetings are opened by a Freemason Grand Mastor

Has that ever been denied? If a woman wishes to join she must have a Master Mason with her.

Notice the inverted pentagram pictures that I would say resembles baphomet.

And tell me, master of History, what is the allways refered Baphomet? $100 says your wrong.

In my opinion, the majority of Freemasons that I've spoken to either on the internet or in person seem to have some sort of problem with the Christian churches

Actually the vast, vast majority are in fact Christian. They support Christianity above all else. Some however, like my self look at Christianity to be the method to which people like your self spread ignorant allegorical teachings and use it as a method of control, manipulation and fear.

If you want to get into that by its self, by all means, make a new thread where I can tear you a new one.

the way the Holy Bible is written, and Christianity in general.

Written by man, for man, to control man, to F* man and its only source of information, man, many years after the man in question perished to man made beliefs. But Masonry as a whole is very Christian. Just not dogmatic. And I have no problem with Christian teachings, its the same as every other religion, I have problems with pricks like you who push it on other people.

Man, if I could have Jesus's blessing to go undercover to see what rituals and what the beliefs are then I would do it but I cannot submit myself to something so disturbing.

And I can thank God truly that I was born a Catholic, dated a Protestant and became a Mason.

That way I can see that Catholicism gave way to the ignorant teachings of Protestantism and both where used as a method of controlled evil so dark it clouds the minds of ignorant fools like your self, and that Masonry is the way of all religions throughout the world at the core of all philosophical teachings without man made dogmatic systems of control.

Jesus this, Jesus that, so many Christians worship Jesus and forsake God and all of the methods to which people worship God. If anyone is a Satanist it is you friend, and every villain like you.

First: runningbeer - I want to say thank you. Christian bashers have done much to convert me and others to the religion. Your type demonstrates much in the way of irrational hatred and it illuminates that there MUST be something of substance in the religion since you hate it so much. Thanks!

May be so brother, but there is a reason that in the age of information Christianity is the fastest dying religion, informed individuals seeing the methods of control and manipulation.

Of course the same reasonings may be behind the crafts fast paced declined.

Either way I certainly hope you above all others on this board being a Mason understand that not all Masons are Christian, and those of us who are not Christian suffer the pointed end of all ridicule?

Do you forsake your own brothers?

I am a christian and a (gasp) 32nd degree mason (which by the way means nothing, master mason is the highest degree). I remember the 32nd degree quite well and I have read Morals and Dogma. Sadly for you, there is no reference to Satan in the 32nd degree..or any of the degrees.

Say it all you will no one here will believe you, be it of your own faith or not. About 95% of all 32º are Christian yet Christians remain the largest accusers of Masonry.

Kind of... ironic.

The "inverse pentagram" is an innocuous symbol that predates the invention (and it was an invention) of modern "satanism." In fact, the ideals that it represents predates satanism, which distorts and perverts its meaning. Satanists also enjoy taking crosses and turn them upside down - but do you scoff at a cross "right side up"? Does the meaning of a upright cross change simply because someone else turns it upside down? No. The same thing is going on with the "inverted pentagram" of the Eastern Star. Yet again...we find that there is nothing evil going on.

Hmm interesting. It would appear you touched something here.

See people like Spirit and other self consumed religious nuts see a symbol and take to to mean one thing. Take for instance the symbol of the Eastern Star. That Star is the Star the shone onto Jesus and guided the 3 wise men. Easy Christian mythology.

It just so happens that the concept of "hell" which did not even exist in early Christianity but was invented by a council of Christians many hundreds of years AFTER Jesus died.. the Star which the ES predates "satanism" by more then even just a few hundred years, but quite possibly well over a thousand.

Then as you state, a Satanist (which even a "real" Satanist cannot tell you exactly what a real Satanist is) can turn a cross upside down and declare it a mark of evil... yet... The symbol of the upside down cross is as old as the Mother Church its self, a symbol of submissiveness to the Glory of the Christ. Peter. Ever wonder why the Popes chair has an upside down cross?

I am a mason AND a Christian, and I have no problem with Christianity or masonry.

That is where so many have problems with us. See I am not a Christian, so they hate me for more then one reason, they hate you out of pure ignorance because you are one of them anyways. I know Brothers of all faiths, and if it where any other way I would have refused to join. No one dictates my beliefs.

Spirit:

Freemasonry refuses to mention our Almighty Lord's name Jesus Christ and only refer to God as the grand architecht of the universe as a "supreme being".

Did you reread what you just said?

Makes no sense.

God is the supreme of all beings in the concept of existance. If Jesus existed he was a product of the almighty one, and because that is the way it is, God is supreme over your lord Jesus, as he is your Lord, you worship him above the Almighty do you not?

Masonry is secular in its understanding there are many countless ways to revere God, not just through man made manipulation for the sake of financial control.

How in the world can you call yourself a Christian and a Freemason at the same time?

Masonry is a Philosophy. Christianity is a Religion.

I invite you to attend your nearest elementary school's library to understand the difference and how one rarely effects the other.

You don't really believe that you are not worshipping anyone other then our lord Jesus Christ while you practice it do you?

When you pray, do you pray to your Lord Jesus Christ. Or to God. His Father? Did you know idolizing a false idol is a mortal sin. Consequence is eternal damnation.

How can you swear on the Holy Bible while worshiping a "supreme being" and not Jesus Christ!

There is only one Supreme being. In many forms, and countless ways of worship. Jesus is not a Supreme being. He is an off branch of the one true God.. to worship the great deity is to worship all he is and all he created. I could only presume Jesus, being an example of God himself is included.

Jesus alone is not God.

Remember that.

Aside, most of the obligations fall under the Old Testament, as do most Masonic teachings.

You need to search your soul.

You need to worry about your own.

Did you know Islam and Christianity are resoncible for the majority of the world war related casualties?

It also just so happens they are the two biggest of the very, very few religions that practice conversion and forced conversion.

Talk about evil...

Or do you just believe that the Holy Bible is all just a lie?

You directed this at an admitted Christian. Shame on you. For me however it is an allegory.

I must be "in the dark" then, right? You Freemasons are no better then anyone else.

I personally will stick to Secularism then to bigotry.

Freemasonry is so secretive that I'm not going to look it up on the internet. I mean c'mon who are we kidding here?

Free and Accepted Masons. Death toll on humanity = 0

Christianity. = The single most destructive religion in Human history.

Who is evil and who is cloaked in secrecy?

Are all Christians bad? No, only those like your self.

Are all Masons bad? No, only those who 1. act like you or 2. are normal Humans and just happen to be bad people. Is the institution of Masonry evil simply because it does not match your pathetic beliefs? Hell no.

And for the record, I would burn an infinite eternities in hell then to follow the likes of you and your religion for just a day.

reply to post by DazedDave


So what, my dad is a freemason to, doesnt meen we have superpowers ..