My Professor is a Freemason

reply to post by wigit


I hear you. I guess some people make it a big deal just out of curiosity.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


Ok, well you're just as average as the next guy who is not a freemason. I don't like secret societies, never have. With Christianity and Jesus there are no secrets. I also don't have any problems with other races or their own personal beliefs. My whole problem is with secret societies that seem to mock Jesus.

Jesus saves, freemasonry doesn't. And yes, I do feel enlightened because of my personal relationship with Jesus. He and I talk all of the time and that's all I need. I work closely with people from India all of the time in my profession and I don't need a secret society to co-exist with them, we get along just fine!

I'm sorry, but I just feel like it's my duty to do my best to inform you that you're heading in the wrong direction with freemasonry. But, I am not here to judge you. I will agree that most of what I am saying is hereby assertions based on my relationship with Jesus without studing your "craft".

From one average guy to the other, God bless.

Originally posted by spirit7
My whole problem is with secret societies that seem to mock Jesus.

And when you find one, let us know. Freemasonry doesn't fit your description that way. But what would I know? I'm only an Anglican Mason. I have an anti-Christian agenda, right?

Originally posted by spirit7
Jesus saves, freemasonry doesn't.

What Mason claimed it did?

Originally posted by spirit7
I'm sorry, but I just feel like it's my duty to do my best to inform you that you're heading in the wrong direction with freemasonry.

Because you KNOW what Freemasonry's about even though you don't know what Freemasonry's about!

You'll excuse me if I find you more than a little presumptious.

Originally posted by spirit7
But, I am not here to judge you.

On the contrary, that's PRECISELY what you're here to do. Unfortunately, your judgment doesn't come burdened with knowledge.

Originally posted by spirit7
I will agree that most of what I am saying is hereby assertions based on my relationship with Jesus without studing your "craft".

In short, like *-holes (of which everyone has one of), you have an opinion. Not an informed one by your own admission but an opinion nonetheless.

Might I suggest you burden yourself with some actual knowledge before you go shooting off your keyboard about something about which you KNOW nothing?

TIA
Fitz

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


Read my posts, I comment on Masonary secrecy, that is what I generally speak of, if you notice it was others that brought up religion not me.

If asked I state I have biases, and acknowledging them as that, and then do not offer them as I state they are my opinions.

The only qualm you have against me seems to be me acknowledging I have biases and beliefs, guess what we all do.

As far as me lying, whatever you want to think is fine, I think my openness stands on its own for anyone forming an opinion from my posts.

Why would I say I had experiences in a secret society, then later say it was not the masons if lying was my intent? Do you really need to stretch things to berate me? Obviously the interpretation I have, umbrellaing secret societies, was taken as a specific secret society which I cleared up in a following post.

Your spinning, which is dishonest, but I have not come to expect much honesty in discussions on these topics, so no biggy.

I also notice your snipping of my quotes takes them out of context. specifically one where I say I have opinions then continue to say that I don't think that is a bases for making claims against others and so I keep them to myself.

Its the secrecy, defend that if you wish, or continue to roam to shallow points made by misrepresenting my remarks.

I invite the casual reader to hit the thread button below my post and see if I am being falsely represented, is this the honor that masons prescribe to?

-Redge777

[edit on 4-11-2007 by Redge777]

Originally posted by DazedDave
reply to post by Masonic Light

 

Are you a marketing teacher? If so, why did I only get 7/10 on the last assignment???

you weren't a mason so you didn't get the brotherly bump on your score

(Joke to illuminate the possible corruption of secret fraternal 'nepotism' in society)

[edit on 4-11-2007 by Redge777]

Originally posted by DazedDave


Are you a marketing teacher?

Ye gods, no! I'd probably fail marketing.

I just teach part time at a community college. Depending on the term, it's Intro To Philosophy, Intro To Ethics, or Intro To Logic.

Originally posted by spirit7
I work closely with people from India all of the time in my profession and I don't need a secret society to co-exist with them, we get along just fine!

I'd be willing to bet that the friendly exchanges would stop if every time you spoke to them you added that you think Hinduism is wrong and that they will eternally burn in hell unless they conform to and believe in your brand of religion.



Try it next time you talk to one of them and see what the response will be.

My prediction:

I'm sorry, but I just feel like it's my duty to do my best to inform you that you're heading in the wrong direction with freemasonry.

No, you're not sorry, otherwise you wouldn't do it in the first place. I have to tell my 5-year-old the same thing all the time.

Giving warnings, etc. about things you do not understand is not only ignorant, it's dishonest.

Cool. The director of my department was/is a Freemason from Texas. I don't know if he has maintained good standing with his Lodge as he's in Indiana. But I was wearing my S&C on my lapel some time near the end of senior year and we traveled for a while together.

Anyway...if only I had known a year earlier maybe he would've given me an A instead of a B in his class.

You prof. may need to "hide" his membership in Masonry due to it's relatively conservative viewpoints (or the perception of conservative viewpoints) as a local Brother does when he's on campus teaching. Several of the tenured profs. and directors would not appreciate the fact that he is a member of the fraternity which could just make his life difficult so he keeps it a low profile. Still wears his ring, but only a few people notice. For that matter he had a student once during introductions at the beginning of the semester say that he (the student) was a Freemason (I believe recently entered). Anyway, the Prof., not wanting anyone to think he was going to give preference to the student, held any Masonic comments until he saw him some time the next semester.

Originally posted by Redge777
It felt wrong didn't know why, but I left on that feeling.

i would have to assume that a christian background might have influences such a feeling of unaccounted guilt. Everyone has secrets.

reply to post by scientist


Not guilt, a lack of desire to lie to friends and family if asked about things. The whole idea of that seemed to be wrong. Guilt assumes some wrong doing, not doing something you think of as possibly wrong is just making a choice.

reply to post by Redge777


I have never lied to my family about anything concerning Masonry, in fact next spring my little brother will maybe join.

Not to mention they are invited to the officer initiation which gives a good insight to what we do as a lodge.

I don't know how to explain it to you.. your ignorance is stubborn. Masonry is not secretive and does not work against family.

Originally posted by Redge777
Not guilt, a lack of desire to lie to friends and family if asked about things.

Who says you have to lie? It's easy enough to say "well, I can't really talk about that." You imply in your post that all Masons are liars and we all lie to our loved ones. This could not be further from the truth. It's just another example of you trying to paint all Masons with your ugly brush. Besides, there are very few things that a Mason could not tell his loved ones. I could explain the entire legend of Hiram and not violate any obligations. If something is asked that I cannot answer, such as grips and passwords, I would simply state that those things are private and I will not violate my obligation. Simple.

A priest hears confessions; do you think he is allowed to tell anyone about what he hears in confession? Of course not. Do you call him a liar because he keeps those things private, as he has obligated himself to do? I think not.

The whole idea of that seemed to be wrong.

Yes, some ideas can seem wrong when not properly understood, especially from a mainstream Christian point of view. Your narrow mindedness is betraying you. As you seem compelled to see things in completely black and white, it does not surprise me that you hold this opinion.

Guilt assumes some wrong doing, not doing something you think of as possibly wrong is just making a choice.

If you go into something that you feel could be wrong, and you find out that it is and leave, why would you have guilt? Likewise, if you were unsure, and you found out that it was great and not wrong in the least bit, why would you have guilt?

If you felt it was wrong, and you left, then there's nothing to feel guilty about.

I do find it odd that you refuse to divulge just what group you are talking about, however.

I think what scientist was getting at is that the Christian religion tends to play on people's guilt and it's not unlikely that someone would feel guilty about something that there is no reason to feel guilty about, due to the dogma and attitudes of mainstream Christianity that have been impressed upon them.

"A priest hears confessions; do you think he is allowed to tell anyone about what he hears in confession? Of course not. Do you call him a liar because he keeps those things private, as he has obligated himself to do? I think not. "

I'm pretty sure that if somebody confessed to murder or pedofile then they would be reported to the proper authorities.

There is no "dogma" about Christianity. I can already see how you are being mis-directed. Christianity is about getting closer to Jesus. Remember, Jesus publicly died on the cross for us!

Originally posted by spirit7
"A priest hears confessions; do you think he is allowed to tell anyone about what he hears in confession? Of course not. Do you call him a liar because he keeps those things private, as he has obligated himself to do? I think not. "

I'm pretty sure that if somebody confessed to murder or pedofile then they would be reported to the proper authorities.

A priest reporting a confession would be violating the very heart of the confessional. He might strongly encourage the murderer or pedophile to turn themselves in but if they refused to do so, if he breaks the obligation he took to keep the confessional inviolate, he becomes useless as a priest. Masons have no such injunction as they are SPECIFICALLY instructed that they are bound by the laws of the country that they find themselves in and if a Mason becomes aware of another brother's transgression, he's obliged to report the Mason in question to the proper civic authorities. Period. Full stop.

Originally posted by spirit7
There is no "dogma" about Christianity. I can already see how you are being mis-directed. Christianity is about getting closer to Jesus. Remember, Jesus publicly died on the cross for us!

Do you know what "dogma" is? Didn't you even take the time to figure it out? EVERY religion has a dogma. Without dogma, you aren't a religion. I presume you're mixing "dogma" up with being dogmatic

Come back when you actually can display some understanding of what it is that people are talking to you about.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


I never left.

The sense that I get from Freemasons about dogma in general is they think that the church oppresses it upon them and tends to make it's members feel guilty. That's not what a church does at all and I feel sorry for those who see it that way. And yes, the Holy Bible is true enough and there's nothing else to worry about.

reply to post by spirit7




I guess it's too much to expect you to actually reason and even attempt to understand someone else's post. I think what we have in spirit7 here ladies and gentlemen is an almost-working example of artificial intelligence.

Oy!

reply to post by spirit7


You know, I am an evangelical Christian. I believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to Salvation, and that Holy Spirit which inspired the writers of the bible was infallible (although the men that wrote it were not). I believe there is no other true God but the God of the Bible. I say this because you seem to think that everyone who disagrees with you certainly couldn't be your flavor of Christianity - but I am. And I couldn't agree with 95% of what you post.

I also believe that the Church is under the dominion of men, who can and often do choose to ignore God's guidance. The church exists in my mind as an amoral tool (GASP) that can be used jointly by God and men who listen for the good of the world. Conversely, the church can be used by men with bad intentions to commit horrible acts against humanity. Human history shows us that the "church" has done both.

When the church is acting as an agent for people with bad intentions, it most certainly has acted as a tool to oppress its members and force its will. As for the guilt issue - do you recall indulgences? But of course, I am sure that paying the Church a insane amount of money to get Grandma out of eternal darkness in purgatory isn't using guilt...not at all. These same forces act within SOME churches today to oppress their will against freemasonry, using religion as a metaphysical iron skillet to smack people who DARE participate in a fraternity.

As has already been pointed out, Christianity as a world religion most certainly has a dogma and what's even more amusing is that you and I's flavor is in fact by definition dogmatic. The difference is that I see dogma as being a ever constant flow as theologians and God himself allows new ideas and concepts to intertwine with old doctrine. There is nothing new under the Sun, but Christianity exists in cycles of dogma.



[edit on 24-11-2007 by LightinDarkness]

reply to post by LightinDarkness


Who in there right mind pays a church an insane amount of money to get grandma out of purgatory? Is that a Catholic, Mormon, Prodestant, or what type of church are you referring to? I'm a Lutheran and to be quite honest, I'm very new to attending church but the church that I go to is not like that at all. I guess I was lucky enough to stumble upon a good one. Then again, maybe I am right where Jesus wants me to be.

I do get your point though and it's fair enough. Hey, that's why I'm here is to seek answers so it's fair enough. And honestly I don't really have the slightest clue of what your rituals are like or the words that you speak during them but I do not get the warm and fuzzies from what I have seen around the internet and the feelings that I get from my brother in law when he brags about all of his pay raises and the OT that he gets when he pulls out his pay stub in just about every conversation. And no, I am not jealous. I just don't think that it's right. I feel that he uses it as a bar with contacts and just to get an even bigger head. But hey, I suppose there are a few bad apples like you guys are saying. I just think there is much more room for corruption in a support group like the Freemasons rather then a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
reply to post by spirit7

 

I guess it's too much to expect you to actually reason and even attempt to understand someone else's post. I think what we have in spirit7 here ladies and gentlemen is an almost-working example of artificial intelligence.

Oy!

No, I just think you are overly paranoid of those with Christian faith and think the Bible is written by some people who want to dictate what you should believe.

reply to post by LightinDarkness


Don't get me wrong though, I see a lot of similarities in him to me and the way I was at his age. He's 28 and I'm 33 and I like him a lot, we have a lot in common. I just worry about him and where his heart is really at I suppose because the good lord knows that I've had my fair share of them myself and I've been tempted into joining the Freemasons because of that But, and there's always a but, I want to be a better person more then anything and that's where he's already got me beat. He's a great person, he offers to take my kids from time to time to offer me a break when I need it and he'll even take my kid out fishing on the weekends when I am unable to because for one thing, I work on the weekends, nights and going to school full time on top of it all. So yeah, I've been very tempted into joining the Freemasons just so I can break free from my current situation but another part of me feels that I will be giving in to something and I don't want to do that. I don't want to let Jesus down. I just fear the whole idea of a powerful huge society that has the reigns on such things and if you're not in, you're out.

Anyway, sorry about the incesent rant but this is the whole reason that I am here and post the way I do so I apologize if I don't really contribute any more useful information and I'm sorry if all I do is argue or try to judge. I really don't mean to.

Peace