NASA Scientist Fired - Promises Disclosure

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
I currently manage individuals with bachelors and masters degrees, and i have no degree (dropped out after my freshman year). Yeah, it bothers an MBA to have to report to me...but i didn't require 6 years of education to do this job. Is that my fault?

BFFT, I for one wouldn't presume judging you on your qualifications in your field of endeavor, in part because I likely know less about it than yourself. Likewise, I wouldn't grab a single fact from a trade publication, in your field of endeavor, and twist it in a way that is, firstly, beyond your professional comprehension, and secondly, accuse you of being a sheep kept in the dark, when you rightly object to the absurd. And, I wouldn't apply double standard in arguing with you, on your turf or otherwise, claiming that a certain immutable law holds in that conditions but in another similar case it simply doesn't. And when you call my bluff, I wouldn't refer to "magick" (to quote Mr.Lear), or to the sanctity of personal beliefs.

Please excuse my poor English. I have already offended one member, Mr.Lear, with my inferior writing skills and I dread another such occasion.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Your writing skills are not inferior, bs. Not by a long shot. Unfortunately, communication is a two-way street and, occassionally, an unskilled receiver can commit a misunderstanding or a misrepresentation of the communique.

In other words: Welcome to ATS.

Originally posted by GeeGee
That reminds me of the article on the seven domes on Venus...

Thanks for that link I have not seen those before...

As to Hoagland's domes I will be back to having free time in a few days and we will go into the ones on the Moon... I don't recall seeing that he had some on Mars... but then I haven't looked over his whole site lately

I could have sworn I started this thread on Hoagland's 'new' exposure...

Yes, this thread has run all over the place, but it's covered a lot of interesting territory.
I'm gonna go back through it a pick up a few points and questions I may have overlooked.

But getting back to the threads title: NASA Scientist Fired - Promises Disclosure.
Is that a bit of a misnomer as Ken Johnston was not fired from his most recent NASA position?
The position of being a JPL Ambassador to the Solar System, as we've established, is an unpaid volunteer position
that Mr. Johnston voluntarily resigned from.
I'm still fuzzy on whether Mr. Johnston actually worked for NASAs Lunar Receiving Lab,
and when he worked there, or is there some confusion over the fact that there are more
than one Ken Johnston who've had an association with NASA.
Not that being a JPL "Ambassador" isn't cool and with a
modicum of prestige, the members of that program that I know are good folks with a real
dedication to spreading knowledge about space and astronomy.

As for being a "scientist", I would accept publication of any scientific papers that Mr Johnston (the Dark Moon one)
has published in any professional journals as establishing
him some accreditation in scientific circles. Have we found any yet?

Have we established with some reasonable certainty Mr. Johnstons educational background?
Can we properly refer to him as "Doctor"? I'm still kinda fuzzy on that too.

Can we firm up some of the details regarding Mr, Johnston at this point?

I'll skim back through the previous posts and see if I've overlooked any pertinent details

reply to post by SpaceMax


I've just about given up all hope of receiving a reply from "Dr." Johnston. Kay Ferrari replied to my email almost immediately. (I wrote it at night, she replied the next morning.) I then sent this email to Ken Johnston:

Greetings, Mr. Johnston,

I hope this message finds you feeling well and chipper.

My name is name redacted. I am an independent blogger at the (largely inactive) website blatherreview.mu.nu... (Blather Review) and an active member of www.abovetopsecret.com... (Above Top Secret).

I have a question for you today regarding the language used in a recent press release by Enterprise Mission concerning your seperation from JPL's Solar System Ambassador's program. Specifically, this passage:

"According to Kay Ferrari, JPL Director of the SSA Program (in a phone call to Johnston last week), it was Johnston "being quoted [as] criticizing NASA in Hoagland's new book, 'Dark Mission,'" that prompted her to ask for Johnston's resignation from the SSA Program. When Johnston refused, citing First Amendment protections of free speech afforded all NASA employees, even those at JPL, Ferrari apparently decided to remove him arbitrarily from the SSA Program this week without cause."

However, Ms Ferrari's account of what happened, as told to me in email, was this (emphasis added):

In response to your question about the press release issued on the Enterprise Mission website, here's what happened.

On October 19, a question was raised about statements attributed to one of our volunteer Solar System Ambassadors, Ken Johnston from New Mexico, regarding NASA photos from Apollo showing alien structures on the Moon.

Since this seemed very odd to me, I called Ken to find out if this was true. Instead of answering the question, he offered to resign from the program. I accepted and followed up with a letter to Ken confirming the details of our conversation.

It wasn't until the next Monday, October 22, that I became aware of "Dark Mission" and learned that Ken was going to participate in a press conference regarding the book.

Thanks for the inquiry.

Kay Ferrari
Coordinator

I have found no specific instance where you, Mr. Johnston, have personally claimed to have been "fired". Was the Enterprise Mission piece concocted by, as many suspect, as merely a marketing ploy to draw attention to the book, Dark Mission?

The reason I ask is that there is an active discussion of the events that have led up to your Dark Mission "press briefing"/"book promotion" on-going at: www.abovetopsecret.com... and there are many members of Above Top Secret (the largest conspiracy discussion board on the internet) attempting to understand exactly what is the truth. So, if you would like to take a moment to help to clear this up, opportunity knocks!

Also, if you could, would you provide a link (or a suggestion to a link) to a web page that provides clear and convincing evidence of your years working at/for/with NASA's Apollo program as neither I nor the other members have found anything to help to varify that fact? And can you explain what/who the term "five lunar module test pilots" refers to?

My understanding is that proof of your "claims, credentials and your key roll at NASA" was to be provided at the October 30th briefing. Can you provide a link to a story detailing that information, as none of us seem to be able to find it via search engine, and the Enterprise Mission website does not detail the information, either.

Thank you very much for any response, however brief or detailed.

Name redacted
ATS Member-Fighter
"Deny Ignorance"

P.S. Why not drop by the above linked ATS thread and say hello to John Lear? He and I, and all the members of ATS would love to hear from you directly. Cheers!

I can't even tell you how many attempts it took to get the message through. Every one of his published email addresses has been cancelled. But, there was something that they all had in common, so I tried every tag I knew: @aol, @comcast, @juno, @upi, @large, @least, everything...

One week and counting.

Like I said: I expect no illumination forthcoming from "Dr." Johnston.


Edited for speeling.


[edit on 12-11-2007 by Tuning Spork]

Originally posted by zorgon

Thanks for that link

I have not seen those before...

As to Hoagland's domes I will be back to having free time in a few days and we will go into the ones on the Moon... I don't recall seeing that he had some on Mars... but then I haven't looked over his whole site lately

The link was just a picture, the article is here:

ase.tufts.edu...

I thought the domes he usually talks about were on Mars, guess not though.

reply to post by zorgon


Several years back i started looking into cyberwarfare and economic warfare. Our energy systems are VERY prone.

It occured to me that other nations are purposefully (and in a combined effort) trying to attack the US via our economy. It also occured to me that part of this tactic has been the luring of jobs into China, and seeing the recent woes with their shoddy manufacturing have me convinced i am right.

China is a nation that has taken efficiency to the extreme. You will never convince me that lead ends up on our toys accidentally.

It then occurs to me that this nation is, in effect, a corporate entity. The President is the CEO, and we are all shareholders. Using the economic warfare type concept, you could literally perform a coup that no one ever knew about. It is like a corporate takeover. China, for example, could be pulling policy strings behind the scenes, allowing us an illusory freedom that serves their nation.

So, on one hand i believe that if our nation were under enough stress or pressure we could release some secrets to keep our edge. On the other hand, i realize that we may have already given up our freedom in a bloodless war in which we were "bought out" by the Chinese, or a grouping of nations.

Freedom is but another control mechanism. Some nations use fear to motivate. The US does it with the illusory freedom, of which a little more is eroded daily.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I have to take exception with your statement regarding Chinese efficiency in regards quality.

The company I work for deals with Chinese manufactured goods for about 80% of our volume. The damage rate is astronomical, nearly half the merchandise arrives in unsaleable condition. Even with this horrendous record the goods are still cheaper to source there due to the lower labor costs.

I have been to China several times and viewed the factory were the manufacturing takes place and although it may be efficient-relatively speaking-it is no where near capable of producing high quality for extended periods. There is growing sentiment in our sector that this type of service is slowly becoming untenable.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
China is a nation that has taken efficiency to the extreme. You will never convince me that lead ends up on our toys accidentally.

There was a documentary either on History Channel or other such venue, and a lot of footage in it came from Chinese sources. You would be surprised what $h!t the Chinese are capable of producing and consuming domestically. In one case, soaked and ground cardboard was added to dumplings (concealed camera footage) and the perpetrator said that with the right sauce nobody would notice or something like that. It looked like heck a lot of cardboard. You may call it an accident or whatever, fact is in many cases the Chinese produce and export/consume crap, without any help from evil conspiracies.


[edit on 12-11-2007 by buddhasystem]

Originally posted by SpaceMax
Is that a bit of a misnomer as Ken Johnston was not fired from his most recent NASA position?

That may well be... but at the time of the post it was the headline from the articles... Only after diligent seeking here by ATS members did that come out. So far as I know neither Ken nor Hoagland have changed the "Ex NASA Scientist' part of their 'press releases'

I'm still fuzzy on whether Mr. Johnston actually worked for NASAs Lunar Receiving Lab, and when he worked there, or is there some confusion over the fact that there are more than one Ken Johnston who've had an association with NASA.

Everyone else I have ever 'looked up ' at NASA when I had a real name I have had no difficulty finding... usually Name, title , job description short bio and even contact info... so it should be easy to find out... and this includes assistants...

I would bet they are counting on the confusion of the two Ken's, the one being VERY prominent and easy to find...

Even here at ATS there are many cases where people don't follow leads very closely... but out there in the mundane world attention spans are short... most would just take their word for it and then even those who did search "Ken Johnston NASA" well you know what I mean...

So we have had no report of this disclosure that was supposed to happen on the 3oth

We have a most likely fake ex NASA scientist...

And we are no closer to the truth...

Can we firm up some of the details regarding Mr, Johnston at this point?

I found some papers at NASA that may be his... as they deal with engineering... but I have not had time to check if its the right Ken yet... and it seems while I was away at work, the thread took a different direction...

As to being a 'scientist' that is a rather loose definition anyway... would not an 'aerospace engineer' be a scientist in many peoples minds? Doctor of course would be different....

James Oberg says the claim was a PHD in Meta Physics as in Nuclear Physics... He also mentions...

What I found out was that Ken worked in lunar sampling documentation, was a 'manager' of nobody but himself, and officially dealt only with photographs of the lunar samples themselves -- not scenary shots from orbit, or elsewhere.

www.unexplained-mysteries.com...

It seems Mike Bara did not want Oberg present at the Press Release... also looks like a heated battle between the two...
So who is lying...

China is a nation that has taken efficiency to the extreme.

You've got to be kidding me! I think you must mean the Germans or Japanese or South Korean or the even the US or France or just about any industrialised nation.

You will never convince me that lead ends up on our toys accidentally.

Ah come on, it ends up in their own water supplies as well! Their economic boom is poisoning half the country and the quality control and safety procedures in some factories is non-existent. Why do you think it's all so cheap?

Originally posted by pippadee
Keep up the excellent work Z, I feel the truth is just around the corner.

Thanks pippadee... but I peeked around the corner... seems they have installed new anti tank traps in our path...


So you say you actually attended this press release? LOL that puts you 'on the spot' so we expect a full report in triplicate

reply to post by buddhasystem

Glad you're still here, BS. Sometimes they grab their marbles and leave, still others just freeze when they see the headlights...

I have more respect for the ones not easily offended, perhaps because I admire a strong mind, perhaps because a good leader can focus the troops,

...but whatever it is, it seems to be in short supply.

You chose your name, now you will be the Awakened One. See the karma you have brought upon yourself?

edit for atrocious grammar

[edit on 11/12/2007 by Matyas]

Well Disclosure may be starting to heat up after all...

The larry King Show on CNN on Friday with the follow up tonight has already been picked up by other news media...

The Globe and mail toronto Canada
U.S. urged to reopen UFO investigations
Reuters
November 12, 2007 at 8:18 PM
The Globe and Mail


BBC News
Call for US to re-open UFO file
By Will Grant
November 13, 2007
news.bbc.co.uk...

There are already four threads going on this... hard to keep up with all of them LOL

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Star Online
Former pilots, officials call for new U.S. UFO probe
The Star



[edit on 12-11-2007 by zorgon]

Check this out! At the bottom of "The Stars Online" article it says:

"Since the termination of Project Blue Book, nothing has occurred that would support a resumption of UFO investigations," the Air Force said on its Web site.

The Star

Of course this is really not a surprise at all, we are all kinda expecting something like this.

However, I have looked and cannot find any comments like this on the Airforce website. Anybody want to help me find where they are saying this.

[edit on 11/12/07 by housegroove23]

Originally posted by housegroove23
However, I have looked and cannot find any comments like this on the Airforce website. Anybody want to help me find where they are saying this.

Well since the source is Reuters news service... can we ask then for their source?

reply to post by zorgon


Yeah if we cannot find it then we could send them an email and see what they say. If the statement is true then we have a good idea of where this is going.

Excerpt from “Dark Mission” (Copyright 2007 Richard C. Hoagland and Mike Bara) page 144:

Johnston had gone to work at NASA in the mid 1960’s as the chief Lunar Module test pilot at the Manned Spacecraft Center in Houston. There he and his team subsequently trained all of the Apollo astronauts to fly the Lunar Module, while simultaneously being part of the extensive spacesuit development program (I was ‘capsule size’, Johnston would late joke.)

Johnston later moved across the (Manned Spacecraft) center, going to work with Brown-Root Corporation and the Northrop Corporations in MSC’s Lunar Receiving Laboratory (LRL)-the literal ‘eye of the storm’ during Apollo. This consortorium had the prime contract for processing of the actual lunar samples coming back on Apollo, and Ken’s key function was as “supervisor of the data and photo control department.” This was the section of LRL that handled all of the critical photographic and written documentation related to Humanity’s first returned pieces of the Moon; after processing elsewhere in the Lab, the films and samples also went through Johnston’s office for cataloging and long-term storage.

Johnston explained that, as head of the LRL lab, it was his responsibility to catalog and archive all of the Apollo photographs. As part of the archiving process, the LRL eventually developed four complete sets of Apollo orbital and handheld photography, comprising literally tens of thousands of first generation photographic negatives and prints.

Ken also had responsibility for managing the 16mm mission films from the onboard “sequence cameras” (modified military gun cameras), operating from the Command Module and Lunar Modules during various phasas of the missions, including lunar orbit, and descent/ascent. One of his duties was to to frequently screen these “on-orbit” films at MSC, before members of the various scientific and engineering teams.

It would seem that Ken Johnston was an employee of Brown-Root Corp. who had the contract for the LRL activities.

Originally posted by Matyas
Glad you're still here, BS. Sometimes they grab their marbles and leave, still others just freeze when they see the headlights...

Thanks for the kind words, Matyas, but I have no idea what headlights you are talking about.

I have more respect for the ones not easily offended

Me too, I suppose

Now, back to the topic -- the promised "disclosure" came and went without much happening. Business as usual.

Originally posted by johnlear
It would seem that Ken Johnston was an employee of Brown-Root Corp. who had the contract for the LRL activities.

It really helps when you have actual names to ook up

It seems there is another book that also mentions Ken and the Brown-Root Corp..

"Who Built the Moon" by Christopher Knight and Alan Butler (Watkins 2005)