NASA Scientist Fired - Promises Disclosure

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by Pilgrum
I must say I'm in agreement with John Lear on the instantaneous nature and unlimited reach of gravity. The inverse square law governs the overall effect at any given point in space but other factors must be considered as well due to the dynamic nature of things in motion IE the point where gravity between the bodies is in balance is not static.

If such a thing were true, then all of space would be a micro-gravity enviroment and there would be no such thing as zero-G in deep space.

That would mean that every deep space probe that we send out would have to be powered throughout their entire flight.

Quite so
It's a question of the vector sum of all gravitational influences at any given point so space does not equate to zero gravity. Consider that as far out as the Kuiper Belt and the Oort Cloud (if it exists) all objects are dominated by the gravitation of our sun sufficiently to prevent them being pulled away toward some other massive object.

That's not saying that there are not points in space where all vector sums equate to zero but in the majority of open space (outside solar systems) the vector sum of all gravity is small enough to be a virtual zero.

We can escape the solar system with a single thrust by achieving a high enough velocity to prevent the decelerative effect stopping the advancement before coming under the influence of a more significant outside force than the one we left behind as it diminishes according to the inverse square law.

reply to post by Pilgrum

This is why I told you to look up Mach's principle. The vector sum of all gravitation in the universe is responsible for inertia, and is independent of local reference frame where it is felt as weight.

Those deep space probes are not doing what they are supposed to, according to current theory. That is because current theory does not include the cosmological constant of acceleration.

Would you not concur, BS?

And as far as conspiracies go with regard to the gravity of the Moon, why pick on JL as if he is the creator of it? That "crap science", as BS so eloquently puts it, has been making its rounds long before JL latched onto it, so where were you when he needed you the most? Probably a moat in your dad's eye. So back off until you have something good to bring to the table, Phds notwithstanding.

Originally posted by johnlear
I thought because of your arguments, spelling and grammar

John, please help me out and point me to spelling errors in my writing that do no amount to trivial typos when I type fast (which I typically do). After all, English is not my mother tongue and although I defended my thesis in that fine language, and published a few papers is refereed journals, there indeed might be space for improvement. In fact, it is probably to my extremely poor command of English that you don't seem to be able to maintain an intelligent stance in your communications with me, and appear a rather not so bright individual - again, because I in all likelihood misread your congenial words and mistook them for mindless drivel.

that you were just some yo-yo seeking fame and fortune by starting an argument with John Lear.

Oh, your majesty, aren't you cute speaking of yourself in 3rd person.

Hopefully I will be able to 'loosen the chains of ignorance' and show you the beaming light of truth and freedom.

God it's worse than I thought... Alas, John, it could be because of my lack of linguistic skill or inability to read the truth between your nonsensical lines, but I lost all hope of learning anything, not a single byte of information, from John Lear.


[edit on 10-11-2007 by buddhasystem]

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
That is a very un-buddhist comment, now isn't it?

That is a very un-buddhist question to ask.

I am glad you find solace in your three additional letters. You have succeeded in becomming an expert in "knowing" what others have told you.

These three letters cost me a lot of blood, sweat and sleepless nights, and it's an honor to carry them. As to your cavalier statement about my knowledge (which you put in quotes, thank you) -- let me point out that my background is in experimental physics. I am accustomed to critical assessment and analysis of the available data and judicious use of instrumentation. I am capable of learning from nature itself, and subjecting other people's opinions to rigorous checks against the facts. I find armchair scientists a rather disgusting bunch, I have to admit.

I can't believe anybody would attack someone over their educational degrees. This just blows my mind. This is exactly what happens in high school/teen arguments. You've got one side that's obviously stating something extremely truthful and then the other side resorts to pointing out character flaws, as if that would change the argument in anyone's favor.

You guys claim to be so "above" the sheeple, yet, you're acting exactly like the jerks who are in the wrong always do when they feel threatened! Come on. I'm a staunch believer in extraterrestrial life, the possibility of there being no life in this single universe (and if we get extremely theoretical, multiverse) are so remote that it's widely accepted a probable reality.

But the way you guys are vehemently attacking at this point is absolutely ridiculous. Like having a PhD is a NEGATIVE and not a POSITIVE.

Unbelievable! John, have you ever spoken to a person face to face that had a PhD in physics? Not through boards but maybe a friend? You'll find that physicists, of all scientists, are the most open to these possibilities if they're not ludicrous!

Come on now.

[edit on 10-11-2007 by Donoso]

reply to post by Donoso

I don't see it so much as BS being attacked as JL getting ganged up on and he is just being his usual irascible self. I sure as hell will not make light of or poke fun at a person's title fairly earned at the sacrifice of a fair part of their lives and wealth...

This practice of applying textbook material to debunk conspiracy theories (CT) is fruitless, because that is why most theories start in the first place, through the inaccurate repetition of the same outdated material.

A scientist who comes on board to tackle a CT must RESEARCH all new and pertinent information while coming to some kind of sympathetic understanding as to how the CT started, and after proper analysis then show the holes in the CT. This angle of making it one person's fault, or an imaginary minority like "armchair physicists" is preposterous and circumvents the root cause of the CT.

BS had, emphasis on past tense, an impressive style, then he crumbled, perhaps out of anger, perhaps frustration, or a combination with other stuff thrown in, and now it's just a mud slingin' party! Come on in, the mud is warm!

Post Script-love your Feynman quote

I could have sworn I started this thread on Hoagland's 'new' exposure...

Oh well... maybe another day or so and the weather will clear... then I can bring out those Moon Glow images

Originally posted by Matyas
This is why I told you to look up Mach's principle. The vector sum of all gravitation in the universe is responsible for inertia, and is independent of local reference frame where it is felt as weight.

Thanks for that reference Matyas
Soon as I have a few more moments than normal I'll certainly check that out. Up till now it's been 'Pilgrums Principle'
Maybe I even have supporters.

Originally posted by zorgon
I could have sworn I started this thread on Hoagland's 'new' exposure...

Oh well... maybe another day or so and the weather will clear... then I can bring out those Moon Glow images

Hoagland talks a lot about the domes on Mars, does he have any idea what they are?

That reminds me of the article on the seven domes on Venus...

I'm just an occasional visitor. This thread has been entertaining, to say the least. I am mostly encouraged by user 'SpaceMax' on page 10. Though there is respect due Capt. Lear, there are times when I find myself struggling with weighing of a fellow pilot's accomplishments and my astonishment at some of his assertions.

I am in my 50's, retired due to medical after a long airline career. I have Captained the B737, B757, B767 and MD-80 and DC-9. I have flown right-seat in the B727, A300 and DC-10. Over 20,000 hours total time, so I believe I can stand my ground in honoring Capt. Lear and discussing aviation with him.

Perhaps Capt. Lear is privy to such incredible information, such as he posts -- if so, I am envious. Ask any pilot, he/she prefers to have control and full knowledge at all times. Hence, many failed marriages, but that's another story...

Didn't mean to stray off-topic. I suppose I'll have to buy this book, the one called 'Dark Moon', just out of curiosity.

Last thought -- somewhere back there Capt. Lear cited NASA data re: the Moon's atmosphere at (approx) 25,000kg. Well, can someone calculate the surface area of the Moon and determine what sort of 'atmospheric' pressure would result from this data? Thanks.

(sorry, final PS. Many thanks to our Union, ALPA - Airline Pilot's Association - for their great Loss of License insurance).

I just bought Dark Mission today and look forward to starting some reading into it tomorrow. I would have liked to have seen an attached CD with high res images that are shown very small in the book photos. Obviously we like to examine things in detail over here. I am looking forward to an interesting read. I will post once I can give some more info on the content. Get back to the discussion and focus on the facts. That's all we are looking for here. State them and leave them. Discrediting people who state their opinions is not what we are here for, after all, they are just opinions.

On another note related to this topic. I am also curious to see what the up and coming disclosure will be this Monday after the Larry King special on Friday. I am also looking forward to the disclosures this book presents.

[edit on 11/11/2007 by infinite8]

Hello all,

Another thought popped into my head. When my Dad died I discovered a book he had been reading, one by Col Phillip Corso. Thing is, and this may surprise Capt. Lear, I'm not a complete skeptic as to Extra Solar life and possible visitations, and the inherent cover-ups that might ensue. I just haven't made some of the incredible jumps from what is POSSIBLE to what seems PLAUSIBLE.

Here's what I mean...is it possible the Moon has breathable atmosphere? Yes. Is it plausible? You decide.

Is it possible we are not the only intelligent lifeform to have evolved in 13 or 14 Billion years? Yes. It is plausible? Yes.

Explanation...200Billion stars in our Galaxy alone. That is a huge number, as you know. Cutting through what most of us also know, the end result is conjecture, but intriguing. Add to that, the star 41LY away with at least five confirmed planets...41LY, nearly our backyard. Here's the rub...timing. I don't know about other intelligent species, wish I did. IF they exist, how long ago did THEY evolve? Do they have a 'Prime Directive'? Are there competing factions with different agendas, all the while being kept secret from the World's population? Or, is it all a 'hoax' or is it real?

I want answers, dammit! !

Something tells me the folks that have been controlling all this info for a very long time may have reached a conclusion that it is probably best if they release it while they still have an element of control on the briefing and debriefing process. I mean what would we do if the ETs (several races) decided to tell us they exist on a mass scale. I'm sure our primal side (fear) would take over and we would screw up the situation in the powers of 10.

If you think about it the ones that have hidden these secrets have more than likely been trying to release it through media (films advertisements etc) for some time now getting us use to the possibility. Like I said in a previous thread about this new movie coming out with Nicholas Cage "National Treasure" Book of Secrets mentions Area 51

Maybe this so called global government(New World Order) some of us fuss over isnt an idea of evil rich bankers but an ultimatum given by the ETs. That One World Government is in essence pointing to One World of People no longer seperated by race, nationality,political party, religious beliefs, scholastics, social classes, creed or color.

Maybe its time to grow up and put our petty differences aside. Drop the ego and evolve rather than war with one another trying to play king of the mountain on a daily basis with all that we do. That never ending loop that seperates us all, I call the "I'm right and you're wrong" mentality or the Genesis 3:22 condition

[edit on 11-11-2007 by fastwalker23]

Originally posted by Matyas
This practice of applying textbook material to debunk conspiracy theories (CT) is fruitless, because that is why most theories start in the first place, through the inaccurate repetition of the same outdated material.

I agree that those that are not on the "creative side" of conspiracy theories should first try to understand why those theories were created and how; repeating what the creators of the theories used as a reason for its creation is not going to help anyone.

But I also think that some conspiracy theories may arise from badly understood facts or "urban legends", so I think that those who enter the CT universe should also consider that possibility when trying to understand the origin of each theory.

For example, in the case of the "higher Moon gravity" theory, what was the reason for that? Was it that quote from Von Braun? Was it something else that was already in circulation at the time?

The way many people accept what is written in the school books without thinking "why things should be as they say?" is the same way other people accept things that are against school books without thinking "why things should be as X says?"

But, as an optimist, I think that we may find the truth, probably not in the school books or in the conspiracy theories, but the important thing is that we find it.

reply to post by zorgon


Well Z, I was one of those hoping to be dumbstruck by RCH's '' knock your socks off'' photos. I flew 11,000 miles specifically for this ( apologies to the environmentalists reading this ). I have to say that I was disappointed.

The hype was that Dr Johnston ( who I think was not present ) had released previously unseen photos. Apart from a couple of prismatic anomalies I think I have seen most before.

Mike Barra's talk focused a good deal on the potentially sinister connection between the Nazi's and NASA ( and the US government )

This is not meant to criticise RCH as he is doing a grand job on exposing the lies pumped out by some of your officials.

Keep up the excellent work Z, I feel the truth is just around the corner.

Originally posted by fastwalker23


Maybe this so called global government(New World Order) some of us fuss over isnt an idea of evil rich bankers but an ultimatum given by the ETs. That One World Government is in essence pointing to One World of People no longer seperated by race, nationality,political party, religious beliefs, scholastics, social classes, creed or color.

Maybe its time to grow up and put our petty differences aside. Drop the ego and evolve rather than war with one another trying to play king of the mountain on a daily basis with all that we do. That never ending loop that seperates us all, I call the "I'm right and you're wrong" mentality or the Genesis 3:22 condition

[edit on 11-11-2007 by fastwalker23]

Well put fastwalker23.

I had this very discussion with a gentleman I met at the Dark Mission event at the LAX Hilton. I am sure the council of ET races prefer that we (Earthlings) speak as a united voice and perhaps that is what this NWO is all about?

After all, when Colonel Corso asked an EBE '' what's in it for me? '' he was told '' a NEW WORLD if you can take it ''

reply to post by buddhasystem


Well, then...i would suppose you can take your spot in the corner with the rest of the elitist minded scientists who are here to "slum" with us "airmchair" types.

However, your statement of degree attained (which should garner some amount of respect, you are correct) was used in a way akin to using title (Sir Buddhasystem). That is what i meant by that being very un-buddha like. Why would you care what others think of your educational level?

reply to post by Donoso


no, being a Ph D is not a negative. But i talk with a group of scientists several times daily. Not only as a member of Pegasus, but individually with these members outside the confines of our message group. They are not known to throw their degree's around as if they had merit to the conversation at hand. Instead, they show good debating techniques (not meant to inflame passions, but rather improve underrstanding). It is all about delivery.

The problem i have with the whole "I have a Ph D and you don't" philosophy is that I think that the sum of the knowledge learned to earn that degree is null and built of a house of cards. And it institutionalizes intelligence, which is wrong.

I currently manage individuals with bachelors and masters degrees, and i have no degree (dropped out after my freshman year). Yeah, it bothers an MBA to have to report to me...but i didn't require 6 years of education to do this job. Is that my fault?


[edit on 11-11-2007 by bigfatfurrytexan]

Originally posted by weedwhacker

I am in my 50's, retired due to medical after a long airline career. I have Captained the B737, B757, B767 and MD-80 and DC-9. I have flown right-seat in the B727, A300 and DC-10. Over 20,000 hours total time, so I believe I can stand my ground in honoring Capt. Lear and discussing aviation with him.

Thanks for the post weedwacker. As you will recall the last time you posted you stated you had 23,000 hours. Now you say over 20,000. Most retired pilots know their exact career time to the minute.

You claimed to have worked for Scenic Airlines and I posted my Scenic Airlines ID. I asked what your seniority number was at Scenic and no answer has been forthcoming.

Not that I doubt your claims but I also asked for your last POI. This is something every airline pilot knows. And no answer has been forthcoming.

Perhaps Capt. Lear is privy to such incredible information, such as he posts -- if so, I am envious. Ask any pilot, he/she prefers to have control and full knowledge at all times. Hence, many failed marriages, but that's another story...

There must be something wrong with me because I will celebrate my 38th wedding anniversary on May 22, 2008. Maybe 'full control' is not my thing.

Last thought -- somewhere back there Capt. Lear cited NASA data re: the Moon's atmosphere at (approx) 25,000kg. Well, can someone calculate the surface area of the Moon and determine what sort of 'atmospheric' pressure would result from this data? Thanks.

I have stated that the moon's atmopshere on the near side is equal to about 18,000 feet here on earth. On the farside the atmosphere is much more dense. Enough to support numerous kinds of vegetation, forests, animal life along with rivers and lakes and a human civilizaton.

(sorry, final PS. Many thanks to our Union, ALPA - Airline Pilot's Association - for their great Loss of License insurance).

This is certainly a very, very strange post script for a conspiracy forum.

But thanks for the post.

Originally posted by infinite8
I just bought Dark Mission today and look forward to starting some reading into it tomorrow. I would have liked to have seen an attached CD with high res images that are shown very small in the book photos.

I have some of those images from other sources. I will be posting that in a few days when I get free time... But I have been waiting too for the current train derailment to get back on track

Originally posted by fastwalker23
Something tells me the folks that have been controlling all this info for a very long time may have reached a conclusion that it is probably best if they release it while they still have an element of control on the briefing and debriefing process.

I agree but they have a problem...

Here is part of a speech by Gordon Cooper...

Why has the government kept its UFO secrets for so many years?

"It started in World War 2, when the government didn't want people to know about UFO reports in case they panicked," said Cooper. "They would have been fearful it was superior enemy technology that we had no defense against.

"Then it got worse in the Cold War for the same reason.

"So they told one untruth, they had to tell another to cover that one, then another, then another...it just snowballed.

"And right now I'm convinced a lot of very embarrassed government officials are sitting there in Washington trying to figure a way to bring the truth out. They know it's got to come out one day, and I'm sure it will.

"America has a right to know!"

The best way in my opinion would be to increase the 'leaks' to 'fringe researchers' and slowly increase the amount and the quality of those leaks.

These researchers and their followers already know 'something is up' and if the quality of the leaks gets more direct... sooner or later even main stream will pick up on it...

That is happening right now History Channel and Discovery are pretty well trusted by the 'mundane' viewer to get info out... and reports on the main stream 'filler' spots are getting better IE less showing believers to be total nut cases and hinting maybe there is more here...

A slow attrition.. they cannot just come out and say ... Errr sorry folkes, but we have been lying to you for 50 plus years and now here it is all on the table...

I am willing to bet that this will escalate over the next 10 years... I think there is a dead line coming though I have no idea what yet... The rush to get 'back up there', all the mining and colony plans that have been prepared for the last few years to astounding detail, the build up of Space Command ( even SAC is now under them)

All this is building to something....

Lets keep ATS on top of it

Originally posted by fastwalker23
I mean what would we do if the ETs (several races) decided to tell us they exist on a mass scale. I'm sure our primal side (fear) would take over and we would screw up the situation in the powers of 10.

LOL I can give you a list of skeptics here who would be totally freaked out by such an event



[edit on 11-11-2007 by zorgon]