Huge Chemtrail Spraying Operation Going On Now. 10-18-07

This is occuring in the eastern mid-Atlantic states, Md, VA, and Dc.
I observed 4 or 5 'streaks' running east to west at about 9pm. By 10:30 pm est, there were at least 11, and the original ones had spread out to occlude an extremely clear, calm sky. Now it is completely 'hazed' over. This is an obvious pattern. These are not normal contrails, as I saw several jets earlier today that left normal contrails that disipated within minutes.
Never do jets fly in obvious patterns, and leave behind 'contrails that slowly spread out and linger for hours, creating a haze like this.
You western guys, go out and look now. It is 1020 est here now. Check and post if you see them as well. I would say if they are flying straight and no change of course, that ky, ill, ind, mo, kans, colo, and nebr might still see them.

Looks like too many are reporting them during the day, so they are resorting to night time 'operations'.
Bastards.

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Edited ALL CAPS in title

Please read The Use of ALL CAPs All Members Please Read

www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 19/10/07 by masqua]

It's odd, I have read about these "chemtrails" quite a bit, but have yet to see any of them. I live in Michigan, maybe it's not feasible to spread them here, or not wise to spread them over fresh water lakes? I don't know, just thought I would mention it.

-Warlo

Very strange that I see this post tonight. I rarely see any Chemtrails, but tonight at 7:30ish EST I saw several. It was really quite odd to say the least to finally see something that you have read so much about.

reply to post by Alexander the o.k.

It’s the weather conditions in those areas, check this site to see why you are seeing so many contrails there right now:
Contrail Prediction Map

And yes they are contrails, it has been repeatedly proven on this site that there is no such thing as chemtrails outside of being an internet hoax.

Edit the link

[edit on 10/18/2007 by defcon5]

Normal contrails can linger for quite awhile depending on wind and other weather conditions. Don't get too freaked out.

The problem is, so few people actually look up. When they do, they usually just don't think about what they are seeing.
To the Mich. poster, you just missed a valuable education on this:

"MICHIGAN PRESENTATION

A presentation on the aerosol operations will be given by Clifford E Carnicom at Northern Michigan University in Marquette, Michigan on Monday, October 6th, 2003 from 6:30 to 9:30 PM.

The presentation will be at the Michigan/Huron Room.

There is no charge for admission.

Call 906.226.7525 in Marquette or Dave Peterson at 970.618.2812 for more information. "
www.carnicom.com...

Here is what a classic spraying operation looks like, I have personally witnessed 10-20 per year since 2001:



The smaller trails are the newer ones, and will spread out to look like the wide ones in about 20-30 minutes.
A normal CONTRAIL is water vapor, and will dissipate in 1-2 minutes and not spread out, and you will never see those in patterns, like these.
This is a spraying operation, and you and your kids are breathing this crap.
If you want to know what it is you are breathing, it's all right here:

www.carnicom.com...


Aluminium oxides, barium, and other bad stuff. I have not read all the analyses yet, but I remember those.

Google Aluminium+alzheimers disease.
You might be suprised. And angry. barium is a big no no.

reply to post by Alexander the o.k.


I can vouch for this.

I am in SE Ohio near PA and I saw the strangest patterns in the sky on Tuesday morning at 7:30 am while taking my kids to school. The kids wanted me to stop and take pics it was so weird. There were at least a dozen streaks like nothing I have ever seen before.

Originally posted by Alexander the o.k. A presentation on the aerosol operations will be given by Clifford E Carnicom at Northern Michigan University in Marquette, Michigan on Monday, October 6th, 2003 from 6:30 to 9:30 PM.
The presentation will be at the Michigan/Huron Room.
There is no charge for admission.

First off there is a reason why Carnicom is not charging for his presentation, because its misleading crap-o-lla, and he most likely knows it is. I suspect if he charged folks money for it, and presented it as it were fact, he could get charged with fraud.

Originally posted by Alexander the o.k. A normal CONTRAIL is water vapor, and will dissipate in 1-2 minutes and not spread out, and you will never see those in patterns, like these.

Really, then perhapse you can explain why these old photos have contrails which are persisting for longer then 2 or 3 minutes?

Originally posted by Alexander the o.k.Aluminium oxides, barium, and other bad stuff. I have not read all the analyses yet, but I remember those.

These are normally occurring substances in many areas, and there is no evidence they are coming from aircraft. IF they were coming from aircraft they would fall quickly due to their weight and would not spread out over the sky as shown above. Besides this I have yet to meet the Chemtrailer who could explain to me how, if these substances were being used, they are not clogging the engines on normal air-cooled aircraft. The Government would have to be issuing both visibility and ingestion hazard warning to other pilots flying in the area, and the whole thing would not be a secret for long.

Contrails can last for hours depending on how cold the atmosphere is. The haze you see is the contrails spreading out to form cirrostratus which is a quite common occurence. I dont know why its such a big deal. There is no proof of chemical spraying yet time and time again someone posts a thread like this and people with an educated background in weather phenomenen explain whats really going on and the are accused of of being disinformation agents

Absolute rubbish

(Yes I work in the weather industry)

reply to post by defcon5


Just because these chemtrails show up on satellites and NASA choose to call them contrails doesnt make it so. Anyone who is not aware of chemtrails would call them contrails, just like you are doing now.

Give people some credit please. There are millions of people seeing these things and not all of them are suddenly imagining things....

New York, Sep 30 2007....how to turn a nice day into a cloudy one.



Longer documentary:





[edit on 19-10-2007 by Copernicus]

reply to post by Copernicus


Um, you miss the point entirely. Chemtrails supposedly started in the 90’s. According to folks like Carn-I-Crap, These trails are not like the ones that existed in the 80’s,which persisted for a few minutes then dissipated.

All those pictures are of persistent contrails pre-1990’s…
One specifically shows supposedly “drippy” looking "Chem-clouds" being left by B-17’s in WW2.
I can show you a lot more then those as well.

Originally posted by Copernicus
Give people some credit please. There are millions of people seeing these things and not all of them are suddenly imagining things....

No, a lot of them never bothered to notice what was going on in the sky until they read this nonsense on the internet. Also there are more contrails now then ever for two reasons, 1) bigger intake fans on new aircraft exposing more air to the hot engine core, 2) increased Air Traffic.

Originally posted by Copernicus
New York, Sep 30 2007....how to turn a nice day into a cloudy one.

How to turn a nice day into a cloudy one, the black and white 1944 version:

Deceptions in Chemtrails

Jay,
Yes, we certainly did. Contrails were so thick that they became clouds. We often said that we created weather over Europe. They would persist for many hours, maybe days. We flew a different route coming back than going in partly to avoid the contrail clouds that we created. There are some pictures of contrails on my web site - none of these are shown to be very heavy but there were time when we were near the end of the bomber stream and the contrails were so dense that it was no dfferent than flying in clouds. A thousand or more planes (4000 internal combustion engines) can make a lot of contrail at 25000 feet or more.
Hope this helps.
Willard Reese- 457th Bomb Group

[edit on 10/19/2007 by defcon5]

reply to post by defcon5


No, I trust what millions of people are saying. I do not think they are stupid or imagining things. If you have millions of people noticing these things over the planet (you have hundreds of chemtrail videos from citizens on youtube), its something to take very seriously.

If we are lucky, this is done to fight global warming. If we are unlucky, its a form of population control which may not be apparent until people get sick decades later.

Originally posted by defcon5
No, a lot of them never bothered to notice what was going on in the sky until they read this nonsense on the internet. Also there are more contrails now then ever for two reasons, 1) bigger intake fans on new aircraft exposing more air to the hot engine core, 2) increased Air Traffic.

Here you go again and think people are idiots...

You may not be able to understand the difference between chemtrails and contrails, but a lot of people clearly do. I dont think its fair to call them ignorant. I also previously showed you Air Force documents talking about chemtrails as a weapon.

I dont have time today to continue discussing this... but ill check in later.

By the way, I checked the source for that photograph...you think thats a reliable source? I could make a similar web site in a day myself and put on the Internet, saying whatever I want.

Here is my earlier thread with the Air Force documents and so on: Chemtrail education thread.


[edit on 19-10-2007 by Copernicus]

Did anyone see the Discovery Channel documentary about chem/contrails the other night? I caught the last 15 minutes and apparently they did some studies on this by having a team of scientists do experiments on jet fuel used by the airlines. What they found is that the normal jet fuel used does not contain anything "suspicious" to be considered a chemical additive added into the fuel of passenger planes so all passenger plane trails are most likely just normal contrails. BUT they did say that the military refused to give up any sample fuel that they use for them to study so who knows whats inside military jet fuel.

They also said that the military does in fact, and always has, sprayed out small aluminum shrapnel splinter type pieces into the atmosphere which causes a "trail" and that the millitary does do a lot of weather experimenting this way. They then track the aluminum fragments, billions and billions of them, with radar. The aluminum pieces float across the country in the earths jet stream allowing the military to see all sorts of weather patterns by tracking how the aluminum is being blown around. The military wouldn't comment on anything the Discovery Channel asked but the Discovery Channel said that all those aluminum pieces do eventually have to fall to earth and can not be good for any animal or human to be breathing in.

Sure hope theres a re-run of that show, not to many chem trail documentary's are shown on TV and was an hour long and probably talked about a lot of the chem trail theory's which they did say at the end is still a "theory".

Bzzzzzzz

i've been seeing them on clear days in my parts,mostly in the mornings...i have a few posted on my youtube page that i filmed... and now i carry my cam everywhere i go.. just incase.. it's a good idea to keep one in your car at all time!

Originally posted by Copernicus
No, I trust what millions of people are saying. I do not think they are stupid or imagining things. If you have millions of people noticing these things over the planet (you have hundreds of chemtrail videos from citizens on youtube), its something to take very seriously.

First off I highly doubt there are millions of people who believe in Chemtrails, they even get picked apart on nutter sites like GLP.

Secondly, the people who do believe in them are generally not folks who understand aviation, aerial spraying, or meteorology. They tend to be folks who would not know what a VOR is if they lived under one, how a holding pattern is shaped, or what wingtip vertices are …

Originally posted by Copernicus
If we are lucky, this is done to fight global warming. If we are unlucky, its a form of population control which may not be apparent until people get sick decades later.

If this were being done around the world, there would be absolutely no way to keep it a secret. The number of aircraft, the chemical production facilities, the chemical storage facilities, the rest of the pilots up there who would have to receive aerial hazard warnings. Too many people involved for anything like this to ever happen in secret.

Originally posted by Copernicus
Here you go again and think people are idiots...

Wellllll…
Lets see…
I used to be the guy who handled what was loaded on a whole shift worth of flights each day at a major airport. Did not see any chemicals getting put on those aircraft (beyond the normal stuff like fuel), but I certainly did see some of them leave persistent contrails when the weather was right.
You do the math on what I should think of these folks with that in mind.

Originally posted by Copernicus
You may not be able to understand the difference between chemtrails and contrails, but a lot of people clearly do.

Oh I defiantly know what folks are talking about when they talk about Chemtrails, and it’s a number of different aerial phenomenon. Normally they are 1) Ice Crystals in cloud formations, 2) Contrails effected by the wind, 3) Contrails effected by wingtip vortices, 4) Cirrus Clouds, and 5) altostratus undulates clouds.
Of course my background is aviation, guys like OZ above are more on the weather side of things.

Originally posted by Copernicus
I dont think its fair to call them ignorant. I also previously showed you Air Force documents talking about chemtrails as a weapon.

Are we talking about the stuff for the UK?
That was pretty well and quickly torn apart by someone who showed actual documents stating what everyone has said about aerial spraying since day one…. It was done at low altitude so it could be sent to a target location. It was also only done a few times, and it was more effective to do it from a ground based source.

I had hoped we had educated you in your “education thread”, but alas…

Originally posted by BuzzingOnWhat they found is that the normal jet fuel used does not contain anything "suspicious" to be considered a chemical additive added into the fuel of passenger planes so all passenger plane trails are most likely just normal contrails. BUT they did say that the military refused to give up any sample fuel that they use for them to study so who knows whats inside military jet fuel.

Of course the military is not going to hand out fuel samples, they are not a private fuel company that you can buy from, and they have to account for their gas. That does not mean that there is anything afoot though. Many airports have to keep a small tank of Mil-spec fuel incase they ever have a diversion of military planes due to a base closure. The airport I worked at, being near an Air Force base, had to due exactly that. The fuel is simply a different cut of the same thing used in normal civilian Av-gas, with different flash points, and some different additives. Not all Mil-spec fuel is exactly the same either, the navy for example uses a less flammable version for carrier ops then other groups use.

Originally posted by BuzzingOnThey also said that the military does in fact, and always has, sprayed out small aluminum shrapnel splinter type pieces into the atmosphere which causes a "trail" and that the millitary does do a lot of weather experimenting this way.

Even if they did do that, which I find questionable as it would present a hazard to other aircraft and create a radar anomaly visible to all the ATC personnel in the area, it would have to be on a small scale.

Originally posted by BuzzingOn Channel said that all those aluminum pieces do eventually have to fall to earth and can not be good for any animal or human to be breathing in.

It would not be anymore harmful then you breathing in the aluminum powder that comes off old aluminum siding. There is a lot more aluminum siding out there then there is dust from the Air Force testing weather patterns.

reply to post by defcon5


Ive been thinking about why I dont believe your explanations. I think its because I trust the millions of people seeing this more than I trust what you type here (no offense). Its always you and Oz being in these threads, posting the same "evidence" of this being contrails and saying you are educated and knows better than common folks.

For all I know, you could both be disinfo agents. A site of this size would have a couple of agents running around trying to make people believe there is nothing going on.

Its nothing personal, I just dont trust you... I see you in all kind of threads, ALWAYS trying to explain away things, never saying anything is strange or showing curiosity for something unexplained.


[edit on 19-10-2007 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by Copernicus
I think its because I trust the millions of people seeing this more than I trust what you type here (no offense).

How about the thousands of people, who work in those industries, and who explain what you’re really seeing? I guess their word is not as good as folks who have no experience in the field.

Originally posted by Copernicus
Its always you and Oz being in these threads.

Actually, OZ has only been around for a short time, and I have only been in a few threads with him. He is very knowledgeable though, and has corrected me a few times on here about weather information.

The folks who normally pick this garbage apart, besides me include other aviation personnel, an ATC person, several military people, and a couple of meteorology people. Folks like Zaphod, FirePilot, Essan, Pistonzor, JimmeyCarterissmarter, Snafu, and several others have, over the years, done an excellent job explaining what folks are actually seeing in the skies. I would certainly not limit that list to just Oz and myself just because we have been in the last couple of threads.

Originally posted by Copernicus
posting the same "evidence" of this being contrails

Because its valid evidence that the chemtrailers cannot dispute, and shows it to be exactly what it is, and Internet hoax. The very first page I ever saw on the topic of Chemtrails was obviously put out by an aviation person, as it included pictures of the heated masts and other parts on a 727. So the hoax was a well thought out joke by some bored mechanic, I believe this was the beginning of the Chemtrail hoax.

That page existed in the early 90’s, at the time I got a good laugh out of it, and took it for what it was, a joke. I did not realize that years later I would be wasting a ton of time trying to explain it to folks. That document shows up now and again still, without the pictures. It involves a mechanic who claims he worked on the Lavatory system of the aircraft. The reason that the pictures were stripped off is that the story is more believable without them.

Originally posted by Copernicus
saying you are educated and knows better than common folks.

Because the folks who post against this hoax bring good, and verifiable evidence against it. We don’t just say it’s not true, we show it’s not true. Also, aviation people have a lingo they can pick up from each other, and can usually tell when someone either has worked in the industry or has spent a lot of time around it.

Originally posted by Copernicus
A site of this size would have a couple of agents running around trying to make people believe there is nothing going on.

I have never made my current job a big secret, and many folks on this site chat with me late at night while I am at work. Believe me I am not a government agent of any type, and besides, I think they would pick someone who was a better writer. However I am always open to an offer for the right money…

Originally posted by Copernicus
I see you in all kind of threads, ALWAYS trying to explain away things, never saying anything is strange or showing curiosity for something unexplained.

Depends on the thread. I normally only post if I have something worthwhile to say about a subject. If I find it interesting, but cannot explain it, add to it, or know a lot about it, then I really don’t have anything to post about. Maybe you should look at some of my religion posts, or posts on RFID, they are about as close as I come to being on the edge with a topic.


[edit on 10/19/2007 by defcon5]

Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by Alexander the o.k.

 

It’s the weather conditions in those areas, check this site to see why you are seeing so many contrails there right now:
Contrail Prediction Map

And yes they are contrails, it has been repeatedly proven on this site that there is no such thing as chemtrails outside of being an internet hoax.

Edit the link

[edit on 10/18/2007 by defcon5]

Chemtrails: weather they are spraying mind-control agents on the US populace, or simply modifying the weather I DONT KNOW.

But I know what I have seen with my own eyes. I myself am a pilot.

It was a beautiful day in Northern Minnesota on a weekend a month ago. The sky was clear and the weather was beautiful. I was sitting on the dock fishing. I saw a few airplanes in the sky... at various altitudes leaving different kinds of contrails: all of which evaporated within minutes.

After a short time I noticed a large 4-engine white jet spewing a thicker cloud as it flew across the sky. Right before my very eyes I saw a normal commercial airliner flying and leaving its contrail next to this obvious military aircraft spraying something.

At first I too was skeptical. Thinking it was an old airliner with bad engines spewing too much exhaust. But within about ten minutes the cloud which had originated from the 4-engine white aircraft had expanded to more than 50 times its original size! All other contrails had long since disappeared.

To further prove to myself that I was seeing an experiment in action... I saw the same aircraft (4-engine solid white airliner) flying parallel to the chemtrail from before, but moved over about 5 or ten miles. Like he was mowing the lawn in the sky. Again the cloud expaned. After about 7 more passes I watched over about 45 mins my clear blue sky was a wash with haze.

My experience tells me that this was a spraying pattern and not normal air traffic or air routes.

I know I will be berated for not having a camera to document this. But I was at a remote cabin and did not bring a camera. Trust me I am beating myself up over not having a camera that day.

But at least I saw for my own eyes the suspicious activities in the sky and they are NO HOAX!