What if we are the only ones ??

Originally posted by completenuttergit
I think that if we were to discover a less advanced life form in the future we should leave them alone so , Theone i believe i agree with you there!

Oldman , i respect your choice to choose religion and will not knock it in any way , but i personally find it hard to believe in a deity , an omnipresent being that can be everywhere ... If there was a god so full of love for mortal man why O why are we in such a state as we are ??

I would love to think there was an overseeing entity, well ok there is on this site, (thats my homage paid and thats all your getting ok) but i cannot convince myself of such ...

Thank you for your replies

Regards
Git

There *is* a "God" -- but not in the traditional sense.

God is not some kind of external separate entity. God is a "force"; a creative momentum that always has, will, does, and is existing.

We are like cells in a body trying to picture or understand the whole-ness of the human body...what we don't realize is how we all are "fractal" parts of an infinatley larger system.


As above, so below.

Because of our limited perceptual abilities (we are not entire ecosystems, planets, or nebulae) we tend to "externalize" our "creator" as a separate deity. It's *much* easier to comprehend and "pass the blame/praise" onto.

God isn't some white-bearded man sitting in the clouds waiting for us, to talk to us and answer all our questions. It isn't that easy. We make it that easy though, because it shifts a level of responsibility off of our own shoulders and onto "someone" else. God isn't a "someone"-- God *IS*

Buddhists know this, as well as shamans from around the world.

Religion is the taking of that simplification of "understanding" the idea of God as a separate entity that one could, for example, "have a conversation with"--and using it for control and the masses with social mores.

If God created us from his own essence and power, we are no less than "progeny" of the "creator". . . Just as a chair, desk or television is as much an "extension" of that creative manifest-ive force that *is* "God".

Very clever people have from early on realized that understanding the "true nature" of reality was limited to .1 percent of the populace, and most people were fine to just "give it all over" to a distinct personality/entity that existed separate and outside of themselves. They saw this as a way of controlling, even with good intentions at times...although the historical record is saturated by the blood of people doing things in the name of "their God".





[edit on 3-10-2007 by MystikMushroom]

Originally posted by MystikMushroom

Originally posted by completenuttergit
I think that if we were to discover a less advanced life form in the future we should leave them alone so , Theone i believe i agree with you there!

Oldman , i respect your choice to choose religion and will not knock it in any way , but i personally find it hard to believe in a deity , an omnipresent being that can be everywhere ... If there was a god so full of love for mortal man why O why are we in such a state as we are ??

I would love to think there was an overseeing entity, well ok there is on this site, (thats my homage paid and thats all your getting ok) but i cannot convince myself of such ...

Thank you for your replies

Regards
Git

There *is* a "God" -- but not in the traditional sense.

God is not some kind of external separate entity. God is a "force"; a creative momentum that always has, will, does, and is existing.

We are like cells in a body trying to picture or understand the whole-ness of the human body...what we don't realize is how we all are "fractal" parts of an infinatley larger system.


As above, so below.

Because of our limited perceptual abilities (we are not entire ecosystems, planets, or nebulae) we tend to "externalize" our "creator" as a separate deity. It's *much* easier to comprehend and "pass the blame/praise" onto.

God isn't some white-bearded man sitting in the clouds waiting for us, to talk to us and answer all our questions. It isn't that easy. We make it that easy though, because it shifts a level of responsibility off of our own shoulders and onto "someone" else. God isn't a "someone"-- God *IS*

Buddhists know this, as well as shamans from around the world.

Religion is the taking of that simplification of "understanding" the idea of God as a separate entity that one could, for example, "have a conversation with"--and using it for control and the masses with social mores.

If God created us from his own essence and power, we are no less than "progeny" of the "creator". . . Just as a chair, desk or television is as much an "extension" of that creative manifest-ive force that *is* "God".

Very clever people have from early on realized that understanding the "true nature" of reality was limited to .1 percent of the populace, and most people were fine to just "give it all over" to a distinct personality/entity that existed separate and outside of themselves. They saw this as a way of controlling, even with good intentions at times...although the historical record is saturated by the blood of people doing things in the name of "their God".

[edit on 3-10-2007 by MystikMushroom]

So says 'you'


And you are the embodiment of the wisdom of the ages, are you not?


Why didn't we see it much sooner?


Are we all now to bow down to your 'knowledge'?

I am what I am.

I suppose if I had a "congregation" behind me, or some "official" title of clergy my words would carry more weight.

Search inside of yourself and think of the smaller picture, then the larger--and realize how we are just cogs in the infinite wheels of the universe.

I like Religion--I think as a person who has seen/felt/experienced the things revealed to myself via meditation, study and self-reflection--I would too chose to "create a religion" -- because the truth is way to hard to grasp. I even cannot grasp it. Knowing I never will either sets me free in many ways.

I would want to create a set of social laws that would further and better the human race, create a deity that ultimately *would* judge one for acting out of accord with itself.

Perhaps I would be"fooling" people by giving them what they would naturally "want"--but I would be at least putting humanity on a path to eventual hope.

You are free to believe what you wish--that's the amazing thing about our "lives"--and I don't want to anger or rub you the wrong way by exposing your self-induced facade; it's a great place to rest, reflect and exist in. I did it for most of my life. Most people find it "satisfactory" as an explanation of what God is and that's fine. It strives to make us better individuals--and I see NO fault in that.

Religion could be akin to "preschool" for the soul.



[edit on 3-10-2007 by MystikMushroom]

Great post

I doubt very much we are the only ones.
100 billion x 100 billion - Estimate of stars
I'll just assume there's a planet for ever star, imagine the numbers of planets out there.

As for them being advanced, i think so. If they could share their technology with us, it would speed up mankind rapidly. If they are as advanced as i like to think then they would be able to travel long distances. By traveling near the speed of light, they would age more slowly (1 day = 50 000years).

One can only imagine what life could be out there. If the race is advance then they'll probaly won't believe in a god, if they were simple then yes.

reply to post by Old Man


I am no new ager or occultist, but I use this terminology because it puts this type of contact squarely in the realm of the supernatural where it belongs. ie when someone talks about interdimensionals around here they are almost always referring to demons as you point out.

It is also interesting to note that most of the so called 'alien' contact stories are really stories about the occult and an interaction with the demonic. Even the craft tend to be non-material and the abductions are closer to induced hallucinations.

Back to topic for me...

IF we were the "only" sentient race of beings in the universe right *now* and in the future we found another--I think the Star Trek "Prime Directive" is spot on.

"DO NOT interfere with the natural progression of another intelligent species until they are fully cognizant of their place in the universe." (paraphrased)...Ie; until they are ready for "first contact".

Doing so would be akin to the Europeans meeting the indigenous peoples of North America...We nearly totally wiped out any trace of ethnic heritage they once had, and placed our own hegemonic way of thinking upon them.

Diversity is beautiful, because it can teach us more about ourselves.



[edit on 3-10-2007 by MystikMushroom]

Mystik, your thoughts are pretty much identical to mine.

In my opinion, there is too many people on Earth right now that are not able to handle the ET truth. Like my religious parents, for one.

reply to post by Freeborn


well by that rationale, the Brits sure must've been glad that America, the "Lost Tribe of England", took up their side in WW2. Because there were more American infantry and tanks participating in the liberation of Western Europe, as well as Italy (Patton), than the total number of British infantry and tanks that participated. In Asia, America took on an ever bigger role. Admittedly, Montgomery did his "unorthodox British tactics" thing in North Africa, the most useless part of the occupied lands where the Nazis could play "Uber Blitzkrieg Panzer Warz!!" in the sandbox all day long.

as to the concept of us humans being the most advanced race of beings in the universe, it's highly unlikely, but I would say it is possible.

if it were proven to be true one day, it would lend itself to the belief in a God, because the religious stories of creation never speak of any other intelligent race of beings, except heavenly ones which don't count here. Also, it would make me at least feel like .. we are pretty damn unique if theres nothing out there, in all that vastness, that is equal to or greater than us, we must be a sole creation of the One God, YHWH.

First of all, thinking we are the "only ones" is juvenile in the matters of the spirit. This is not derogatory, just a place in your time.
However: That is my opinion backed up by a whole hellavu lot.

But it's good IMO if you choose to believe in the fact it's NOT true regarding other intelligent life because it makes it easier for you to not "wish they would come save us" like so many do.

Those are the believers that make me throw my hands up. You non-believers... oh well, at least don't freak out when you do find it to be true.

b

The Universe is infinite is it not? I mean, our best scientists see it as "expanding"...

To think that in all that infinite-ness, we are the only ones....brings me back to a quote from Carl Sagan's book/movie "Contact"....

Ellie Arroway: [to a group of children] I'll tell you one thing about the universe, though. The universe is a pretty big place. It's bigger than anything anyone has ever dreamed of before. So if it's just us... seems like an awful waste of space. Right?

[edit on 4-10-2007 by MystikMushroom]

This is a good thread I say, a good one...it leaves the mind totally open to wander/wonder!! And, although I am a God believing man myself, let me throw a little something into the mix as it is already going.

Let us just look at our own planet for a moment. We have how many species of creature on this rock.....oh let's just take a stab at it and say thousands! Of those thousands, how many of those can understand or even comprehend the existence of each of the other species?? I suppose that could be debated but really, do ants really "know" that we are here too?? And furthermore, they can't communicate with us in any stretch of the imagination, right?
So, thousands of species that have no idea how and what the others are (except us, the really smart ones of course) that live on the SAME planet. What does that say about the possibility of other "Alien" species and us? If they exist, and yeah, it's a big leap of "faith", but if they do...we can't even begin to guess what they would be like, what size or shape, macro or micro scale, etc... The odds of even remote similarities in communication are even more remote that the far out idea that they exist at all!

The idea of other "intelligent" species out there is really fun to think about, I admit it too. I grew up on Star Wars and am as big a dreamer as anybody, but for the time being I really do think that we should be prepared to deal with the fact that no other alien species is coming along any time soon. Maybe if there were documents, like the Bible (which whether or not you believe in the Bible, you do have to admit it exists) or even better if there were actual physical demonstrations of their existence, again like in the Bible, that can be proven with archaeological excavations described in the Bible.

Alas, so far it is sheer speculation with nothing in the slightest other than our own imaginations to prove their existence. Unless of course you have had a personal encounter, which I have not. That's a whole other ball of wax I guess!

Just a few of my thoughts, peace to y'all............Mondo

[edit on 4-10-2007 by Mondogiwa]

If we did come across some less advanced civilization I would like to think that we wouldn't meddle with them, but I don't think it would happen that way. It is like the plans to mine helium-3 on the moon. The rock that these beings live on would be explored for minerals and other resources and if they indeed were less advanced I think that we'd just help ourselves, maybe give them a few trinkets and take what we needed. After all it did work with the Aborigines.

I think we'd have to make our way to them though as I doubt they'd have ships capable of long distance space travel, although it is possible.

I wonder is other beings are discussing this topic on their equivalent of ATS right now?

What I would like to see is a movie where we are the dominant species in an Earthling-Alien war. We could just dispense of them from the start instead of having to coming up with some ingenious idea in the last 20mins of the film.

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
do ants really "know" that we are here too?? And furthermore, they can't communicate with us in any stretch of the imagination, right?

Don't think we can communicate with them either, last time i checked...

Originally posted by Mondogiwa
I really do think that we should be prepared to deal with the fact that no other alien species is coming along any time soon.

umm don't think people are even excepting it

Wouldn't it be nice to have enough time to explore this whole universe? I can't even imagine the vastness and complexity out there...

Well, first of all its impossible for us to be the only ones. There is actually a mathematical equation to tell us how many intelligent species might exist in the universe. The answer to this equation is roughly around 40. I could not find it, if someone else can, it would be nice to see it again, as it was brilliant.

Second of all, taken the improbability we are the only ones, "it would be an awful waste of space"

I'm not standing behind "they will come and save us". Only god can save us now. An invasion? I don't think so, and if so it will be a peaceful one.

reply to post by 1337cshacker


Yeh i was trying to find it before. It's called the Drake Equation.
Was playing around with it a while ago, very interesting...

Edit: It's a flash animation, try it...

[edit on 4-10-2007 by AncientVoid]

reply to post by AncientVoid


Exactly my point about the communication portion. We exist on the same planet and can't communicate so where is there any logical deduction to think that we could communicate with another species from who knows where??

As far as expecting, I think that's what you meant by "excepting"? I think there are many people who think that "they" are coming or are actually already here....hence all the UFO stories.

Anyway, maybe the possibilities as far as the numbers go have a mathematical probability, but what does that mean other than just that...a probability!
Remember, from a scientific perspective a bumble bee cannot fly...yet they do. Just proof that numbers and calculations aren't always accurate and especially statitistics, they are just that, statitistics..and they can be manipulated.

Peace again, Mondo



[edit on 4-10-2007 by Mondogiwa]

Impossible what about adaptation?

It just couldn't be.

reply to post by Mondogiwa


Well if something has the chance of happening, it will, if you give it enough time.

If a race that's advanced enough to travel all the way here, i don't think they would have problems communiating with us. They'll be the ones bridging the communiation gap...

Haven't heard of the bee story, got link or something?

[edit on 4-10-2007 by AncientVoid]

***HOLD UP, WAIT ONE SECOND***

Lets assume that because of the age of the universe itself--that sentient life-forms have evolved elsewhere in our universe? Okay? How might they "choose" to travel the infinite frontiers of our reality?

I purpose and submit to you *THIS* idea that perhaps spore-bearing organisms have adapted themselves to travel/endure/proliferate in the vastness of space...

My mentor, guide, and favorite author quotes what the psilocybin "mind" said to him.

Many may laugh, most will discard. But .1 percent will recognize and that is "enough".

I am old, older than thought in your species, which is itself fifty times older than your history. Though I have been on earth for ages I am from the stars. My home is no one planet, for many worlds scattered through the shining disc of the galaxy have conditions which allow my spores an opportunity for life. The mushroom which you see is the part of my body given to sex thrills and sun bathing, my true body is a fine network of fibers growing through the soil. These networks may cover acres and may have far more connections than the number in a human brain.

My mycelial network is nearly immortal--only the sudden toxification of a planet or the explosion of it's parent star can wipe me out. By means impossible to explain because of certain misconceptions in your model of reality all my mycelial networks in the galaxy are in hyperlight communication through space and time.

The mycelial body is as fragile as a spider's web but the collective hypermind and memory is a vast historical archive of the career of evolving intelligence on many worlds in our spiral star swarm. Space, you see, is a vast ocean to those hardy life forms that have the ability to reproduce from spores, for spores are covered with the hardest organic substance known.

Across the aeons of time and space drift many spore forming life-forms in suspended animation for millions of years until contact is made with a suitable environment. Few such species are minded, only myself and my recently evolved near relatives have achieved the hyper-communication mode and memory capacity that makes us leading members in the community of galactic intelligence. How the hyper-communication mode operates is a secret which will not be lightly given to humans.

But the means should be obvious: it is the occurence of psilocybin and psilocin in the biosynthetic pathways of my living body that opens for me and my symbiots the vision screens to many worlds. You as an individual and Homo sapiens as a species are on the brink of the formation of a symbiotic relationship with my genetic material that will eventually carry humanity and earth into the galactic mainstream of the higher civilizations.

Since it is not easy for you to recognize other varieties of intelligence around you, your most advanced theories of politics and society have advanced only as far as the notion of collectivism. But beyond the cohesion of the members of a species into a single social organism there lie richer and even more baroque evolutionary possibilities. Symbiosis is one of these. Symbiosis is a relation of mutual dependence and positive benifits for both species involved.

Symbiotic relationships between myself and civilized forms of higher animals have been established many times and in many places throughout the long ages of my development. These relationships have been mutually useful; within my memory is the knowledge of hyperlight drive ships and how to build them. I will trade this knowledge for a free ticket to new worlds around suns younger and more stable than your own.

To secure an eternal existence down the long river of cosmic time, I again and again offer this agreement to higher beings and thereby have spread throughout the galaxy over the long millenia.

A mycelial network has no organs to move the world, no hands; but higher animals with manipulative abilities can become partners with the star knowledge within me and if they act in good faith, return both themselves and their humble mushroom teacher to the million worlds to which all citizens of our starswarm are heir.

[edit on 4-10-2007 by MystikMushroom]

Originally posted by TheoOne
then we might as well have to expand by developing the other life forms like we're god
[edit on 3-10-2007 by TheoOne]

Haha that would actually be pretty cool. Maybe in the future each person can get their own planet and seed an intelligent race there that will view the person as their God.