How Do We Know That THe Bible, Old Testiment, And The Torah Are True?

can you show me a link or something about what you are saying because you say that they are offical figures

Certain things can be proved from the bible from other cultures.

Jesus? There were churches in the far East long before any Romans took up the religon.

Flood? Perhaps exaggerated in the Bible, it is probably from a post ice age flood or the Mediterranean flooding the smaller sea (can't remember name) to the east. Don't forget that most cultures have their flood stories too.

Fall of Jericho? They're found fallen walls. Likely that all the walking caused rocks to fall.

Don't take one source, but if it shows up alot, then it's true

My old journalism teacher used to say..."Even with todays technology (computers, digital voice recorders, video cameras etc...) we still cant get a QUOTE right all the time....


But some people have no problems uttering the words "Jesus said"


Said who?

the Christian scriptures explain this easily

if a prophet says something and it foes not come to pass its not of God

but if it does happen its from God

prophesy is how the God of Christianity says he will prove he exists

reply to post by Steff


Seeing as it comes from multiple scriptures and cultures, both Christian and not, he must have said it.

100 men go into the desert in search of God. A few years later 100 men come out each carring a scripture they claim to have been written or inspired by God. It is not my place to say God could not have actually talked to or inspired whoever he cholse. I ask though, how am I to distinguish those who did hear from God from those who were just delusional, or simply put down their own ideas and claimed divine authorship or even some who decided "Hi, God said give me money' was an easy way to make a living?
I do not deny that God may speak to who he wishes or even that He may speak to dozens or hundreds if He wishes. I'm just asking how I, the common man, am supposed to pick his actual word out of hundreds of differing scriptures.
As Thomas Paine pointed out, If God talks to you that is revelation. If you tell anyone what He's said, that is heresay.

Do we think that the greek myths are true? How about the Baghavad gita? No, we dont even entertain it! Why would we put so much credance into the myths of one culture over all the others? Because out society is still brainwashed by the christian attempts at control, we need to let it go, stop putting intellectual energy into a pointless debate if we are ever going to get to the next level.

reply to post by 420prajna


Myths are metaphors for the human condition and as such are equally false and equally true.

When you look out at the world in all its glory; and realize the fantastic miracle that it is, no matter the myths (scientific or religious) you believe...

When you know beyond its sheer size, the universe expands outward past the stars and down into the sub-atomic, while at the same time the body beyond all the flesh and bone does as well...

When you know that we are stardust; and, at that level of speeding atoms the material world, we, do not exist...

That all of existence merely a slightly denser mist of dreams.

In the face of all of this, how can anyone adopt anything short of wonder and awe, tolerance and acceptance as a world view?

In the face of all of this how is it possible that hate could even take root?

In the face of all of this how can anyone adopt a constricted and narrow spirituality?


[edit on 30-9-2007 by grover]

reply to post by coryblood

I hope I've done this correctly, please forgive me if not, considering it is my first reply post...
Some Bible Prophecies and Their Fulfillment -
Content of Prophecy: 1. Babylon, which was yet to become the capital of a glorious world empire, would eventually become desolate, never to be re-inhabited. Isaiah 13:19, 20 When Recorded: Before 732 B.C.E. When Fulfilled: 900 years later Confirmation of Fulfillment: “Babylon lost its primacy and finally left the historical arena by the second century A.D.”—The Great Soviet Encyclopedia, 1974 English ed., Vol. 4, p. 8.
Content of Prophecy: 2. A ruler named Cyrus would conquer Babylon. Isaiah 45:1-3; 47:1-5 When Recorded: Before 732 B.C.E. When Fulfilled: 193 years later Confirmation of Fulfillment: “The Persian king Cyrus II captured Babylon in 539 B.C.”—Ibid., p. 9.
Content of Prophecy: 3. Babylon would be followed by the Medo-Persian Empire, pictured by a ram with two horns, the taller of the two coming up second. Daniel 8:1-4, 20 When Recorded: About 551 B.C.E. When Fulfilled: 12 years later, in 539 B.C.E. Confirmation of Fulfillment: The Median power came first, but the Persian power that followed surpassed it in strength.—Encyclopædia Britannica, 1959, Vol. 15, p. 172 and Vol. 17, p. 550.
Content of Prophecy: 4. The two-horned Medo-Persian Empire would be broken by a one-horned he-goat, picturing Greece under a mighty king. Daniel 8:5-7, 21 When Recorded: About 551 B.C.E. When Fulfilled: 217 years later, in 334 B.C.E. Confirmation of Fulfillment: Alexander the Great inflicted a crushing defeat on the Persian Empire, thus establishing the Grecian Empire.—The Outline of History, by H. G. Wells, 1921, p. 321.
Content of Prophecy: 5. This mighty king of Greece would be broken at the zenith of his power. The empire would not pass on to his offspring; instead it would be broken into four parts. Daniel 11:2-4 When Recorded: 539 B.C.E. When Fulfilled: 216 years later, 323 to 301 B.C.E. Confirmation of Fulfillment: At the age of 33 Alexander died of malarial fever; shortly afterward his only two sons were murdered. After wars among his generals, the empire was finally divided between Seleucus, Ptolemy, Lysimachus and Cassander.—Ibid., pp. 336, 337.
Content of Prophecy: 6. The wealthy port city of Tyre would be conquered by King Nebuchadrezzar. So thorough would the destruction be that the dust of the city would be scraped away and fishermen would dry their nets there. Ezekiel 26:4-7 When Recorded: 607 B.C.E. When Fulfilled: 275 years later, in 332 B.C.E. Confirmation of Fulfillment: Nebuchadrezzar destroyed the mainland city. Centuries later, Alexander scraped Tyre’s ruins into the sea, forming a causeway to the island city, capturing it. Today fishing nets are sometimes seen drying there.—Encyclopædia Britannica, 1959, Vol. 22, p. 653.
Content of Prophecy: 7. The Judean kingdom would be desolated, its treasures and its subjects taken to Babylon. (This prophecy was given in the time of the mighty Assyrian Empire, when Babylon was merely a vassal state.) Isaiah 39:5-7 When Recorded: Before 732 B.C.E. When Fulfilled: 125 years later, in 607 B.C.E. Confirmation of Fulfillment: “‘Diaspora’ denoted the existence of Jews outside Palestine, especially after their exile by Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar II.”—The Great Soviet Encyclopedia, 1975 English ed., Vol. 8, p. 198.
Continuing in second reply...

reply to post by coryblood
con't... Content of Prophecy: 8. Babylon’s conqueror, Cyrus, would release the Jews. They would rebuild Jerusalem and its temple, becoming living witnesses to the fact that Jehovah is the God of true prophecy. Isaiah 43:8-10, 14; 44:26-28 When Recorded: Before 732 B.C.E. When Fulfilled: 195 years later, from 537 B.C.E. Confirmation of Fulfillment: “The Jews . . . returned . . . to Jerusalem from Babylonia in the time of Cyrus.”—The Outline of History, by H. G. Wells, 1921, p. 230. The first-century historian Flavius Josephus recorded the fulfillment in his Antiquities of the Jews.
Content of Prophecy: 9. Israel’s long-awaited Messianic King would be born in Bethlehem. Micah 5:2 When Recorded: Before 716 B.C.E. When Fulfilled: 714 years later Confirmation of Fulfillment: Matthew 2:1 and Luke 2:1-14 confirm that Jesus was born in Bethlehem in 2 B.C.E.
Content of Prophecy: 10. He would be born of a virgin. Eventually, as the exalted ruler of God’s choice, he would call to account all human rulers, much to their amazement, and bring permanent peace to the earth. Isaiah 7:14; 9:6, 7; 52:13-15 When Recorded: Before 732 B.C.E. When Fulfilled: 730 years later, in 2 B.C.E. Confirmation of Fulfillment: Matthew 1:18-23 and Luke 1:26–2:14 record the miraculous virgin birth of Jesus. Even the Koran of the Muslims acknowledges this in sura III, verses 40-48. Soon, at Armageddon, he will destroy the world’s entire system of political rulership.
Content of Prophecy: 11. First this Messianic King would be humiliated and put to death by his own nation, in spite of his curing them of sicknesses. His death would atone for man’s sins. Isaiah 53:3-12 When Recorded: Before 732 B.C.E. When Fulfilled: 760 years later, from 29-33 C.E. Confirmation of Fulfillment: The four Gospel accounts testify to the miraculous cures performed by Jesus as well as to his suffering and death at the hands of the Jews. (1 Corinthians 15:3-8) In his name salvation has been preached worldwide.
Content of Prophecy: 12. The inhabitants of Jerusalem who murdered him would see their own city surrounded by encamped armies. This attack would not bring about the immediate destruction of those in the city. It would be a sign for Jewish followers of Jesus to flee out of the city and Judea. Luke 21:20-24 When Recorded: 33 C.E. When Fulfilled: 33 years later, in 66 C.E. Confirmation of Fulfillment: Chronicles—News of the Past, by Dr. Israel Eldad and Moshe Aumann, gives a historical account of the 30th of the Jewish month Tishri, 66 C.E.: “Romans advance on Jerusalem, begin siege of city.” Later, the publication reports: “ROMAN ARMY ROUTED . . . nearly 6,000 Roman soldiers and horsemen . . . wiped out.”
Content of Prophecy: 13. The next time these armies would prove successful. They would besiege the city and build around it a fortification of pointed stakes. The inhabitants would be killed and the temple would be razed. The very generation to which Jesus preached would be called to account for shedding the blood of God’s prophets. Luke 19:43, 44; 21:5, 6; 11:47-51 When Recorded: 32 and 33 C.E. When Fulfilled: 37 years later, in 70 C.E. Confirmation of Fulfillment: Chronicles—News of the Past, describes the 10th day of Ab, 70 C.E.: “JERUSALEM FALLS; TEMPLE IN FLAMES . . . Death Toll Over Million . . . Some parts of the Temple were still burning . . . The rest had been reduced to a mass of smouldering rubble.” See also the eyewitness account of Flavius Josephus in Wars of the Jews.
Continued in next reply...

reply to post by coryblood
Content of Prophecy: 14. A sign that the end of the present system is near—great warfare, widespread food shortages, earthquakes, the worldwide preaching of the good news of God’s incoming world government. All of this, including “the end,” would come within one generation. Matthew 24:3, 7, 14, 21, 32-34. When Recorded: 33 C.E. When Fulfilled: 1,881 years later, since 1914 C.E. Confirmation of Fulfillment: Since 1914 the world has experienced the only two world wars in history. A quarter of the world is hungry, 40 million persons dying annually. This century has also experienced a marked increase in earthquakes. In 1983 alone, Jehovah’s Witnesses spent approximately 436 million hours preaching the “good news” worldwide.
Content of Prophecy: 15. During these “last days” there would be a sharp increase in immorality, pleasure-seeking, crime, family breakdown and juvenile delinquency. 2 Timothy 3:1-5 When Recorded: About 65 C.E. When Fulfilled: 1,849 years later, since 1914 C.E. Confirmation of Fulfillment: Crime, violence and terrorism plague the world today. The divorce rate is rising sharply and venereal diseases are epidemic. Young people, generally, resent authority.
Content of Prophecy: 16. Many would ridicule all the evidence that “the last days” of the present system had arrived. 2 Peter 3:3, 4 When Recorded: About 64 C.E. When Fulfilled: 1,850 years later, since 1914 C.E. Confirmation of Fulfillment: It has become increasingly popular to view the Bible with skepticism. The idea that the end of wickedness is near is scoffed at by many.
Content of Prophecy: 17. But in “the final part of the days” people out of all nations would eagerly help one another to learn Jehovah’s ways; all of these would cease to participate in or learn war. Isaiah 2:1-4 When Recorded: Before 732 B.C.E. When Fulfilled: 2,666 years later, since 1935 C.E. Confirmation of Fulfillment: Upwards of 2,600,000 of Jehovah’s Witnesses, in 205 lands, devote time to helping others to learn Bible truths. It is well known that this large international brotherhood does not participate in warfare.
These are some of the major prophecies that have already been fulfilled, coryblood. There are many more we await to be fulfilled, such as the destruction of all false religion, symbolized in the Bible book of Revelation as a disgusting harlot riding on a wild beast. She is called "Babylon, the Great". This will be fulfilled when "the beast" of Revelation turns against false religion in all it's forms and totally crush them out of existence. This is where knowledge and faith come in. Do your homework by looking up these quoted scriptures along with the confirmed sources to increase your faith before it is too late. (2 Peter 1:5-8) Agape

Originally posted by 420prajna
Do we think that the greek myths are true? How about the Baghavad gita? No, we dont even entertain it! Why would we put so much credance into the myths of one culture over all the others? Because out society is still brainwashed by the christian attempts at control, we need to let it go, stop putting intellectual energy into a pointless debate if we are ever going to get to the next level.

For me, God is in every religion, messing around with his creation. Wouldn't you?

reply to post by Minstrel


I would take your signature more seriously if I were you.

all religion boils down to one word weather your a christian or what ever you are that one word is
FAITH.

reply to post by Minstrel



Thank you so much for your post. I printed it so I could take more time and give it the attention it deserves.

The following I found most interesting as you identify Mystery Babylon The Great Harlot as false religion. I agree but have found most Christians believe it to be the Catholic church. She is all false religions, including the parts of Christianity that are false.

There are many more we await to be fulfilled, such as the destruction of all false religion, symbolized in the Bible book of Revelation as a disgusting harlot riding on a wild beast. She is called "Babylon, the Great". This will be fulfilled when "the beast" of Revelation turns against false religion in all it's forms and totally crush them out of existence.

Thank you again. I hope many will take time to read it.



.........Whirlwind

reply to post by grover

Ahh, but I do take it seriously grover. But for those that don't understand, I'll try to explain... This system is under the control of a manipulative, powerful, spirit being who has "grown up" with mankind. He knows more about you than your own mother or father ever could. His machinations know no bounds and get more and more perverted as time goes on. He has twisted his thoughts and desires into the mind of man since the very beginning of time, trying to lead us away from the light of Jehovah God's perfect way. He wanted what only Almighty God deserves... WORSHIP. At many times he has succeeded, but he doesn't have to. That's where knowledge and free will come in. If we get caught up in things like politics (who will rule over us in our errors and correct us?), getting a better job to buy that Midnight Blue Ferrari we saw at the local dealership (covetousness), and worrying about "where do we go from here?" (Jehovah has got all the bases covered already), we are really siding with Satan, the Devil in this vast issue of Universal Sovereignty. (see 1 John 2:15-17; Revelation 4:9-11) This system that we are living under is in the final stages of it's death throes since Jesus Christ is already ruling as King in Heaven (Rev. 19:11-16) and it is just a matter of time before the Father (who is Jah, or Jehovah God, the Sovereign Lord of everything anyway) of the appointed King gives His command to pass judgement on all those not siding with the Creator. (Psalm 110:1,2; Acts 2:34-36) So really, taking everything in stride in our daily activities is really a reason to be sober in thinking ability because Jehovah is showing us loving kindness and compassion as he gives us time to realize the uselessness of our goals and run the race of endurance as we make necessary changes in our character and personality to please Him more fully. That way we win the prize we so eagerly desire, everlasting life, (John 17:3) and the race we are running won't be a waste of time and a race of futility. (1 Cor. 9:24; Heb. 12:1) Thanks for your comment and I hope this helps to explain my position grover. Agape.

Originally posted by whirlwind
reply to post by Minstrel

 

Thank you so much for your post. I printed it so I could take more time and give it the attention it deserves.

The following I found most interesting as you identify Mystery Babylon The Great Harlot as false religion. I agree but have found most Christians believe it to be the Catholic church. She is all false religions, including the parts of Christianity that are false.

There are many more we await to be fulfilled, such as the destruction of all false religion, symbolized in the Bible book of Revelation as a disgusting harlot riding on a wild beast. She is called "Babylon, the Great". This will be fulfilled when "the beast" of Revelation turns against false religion in all it's forms and totally crush them out of existence.

Thank you again. I hope many will take time to read it.



.........Whirlwind

reply to post by whirlwind
Sorry for the duplicate post, Thanks for the kind words whirlwind...To address the issue of Christianity, whirlwind, we must first come to a general consensus that religion is either true or false. If there is false religious doctrine then there must be TRUE religious doctrine. A good example of this is the Bible book of Isaiah. By comparing the Dead Sea scrolls to the oldest known texts of the book of Isaiah, scholars have found that the text hasn't changed in over 2000 years of ancient history! That is amazing to say the least. In 66 chapters of this book only minor scribal errors were found. So what does that say for the rest of the Bible? Well, with a little bit of research and study, if you stick to the original language translations, you've a pretty good start in learning the truth of God's word. But you might admit, "I don't know how to read Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek." Well, then you have to find a translation that doesn't seem to spout inconsistencies and contradictions. Take for example the verse I quoted in the reply to grover, Psalm 110:1. Read in the NIV Study Bible it says, "The LORD says to my Lord: 'Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.' " Now the committee members in the Preface to their translation readily admit that "LORD" is to be recognized as the Divine Name, YHWH, the Tetragrammaton, commonly written as "Jehovah". So why cause confusion by removing the Divine Name from the text and replacing it with a mere title? They didn't do that to Jesus' name. The translators of the NIV removed the Divine Name from the text of the Bible over 6000 times to replace it with such titles as "LORD" and "SOVEREIGN LORD", etc. Is that fulfilling Jesus' command to sanctify his Father's name? (Matt. 6:9) The secret then is, to find a translation that glorifies the Divine Name, not treats it as meaningless. That in itself clears up the majority of contradictions in the Bible text. The faith that upholds the truth of the Bible is the FAITH that Almighty God would approve of would it not? (con't next post)

reply to post by whirlwind
Moving on to your comment about the Catholic Church... I do not put down any denomination of churches. But society has lumped all so-called Christian denominations AND the Catholic Church into one broad categorical faith, Christendom. Now if you analyze that name very closely you'll see it is a combination of "Christ" and "Kingdom". Now we throw out the question to all believers, "When did Jesus ever authorize that his Kingdom have a basis in THIS world?" The answer is, he didn't. He always recognized that he, as King, was "no part of this world", that his 'kingdom was not from this source'. (John 18:36) This is not true of Christendom. It's clergy have elevated themselves to lofty positions and walked hand in hand with political leaders for governmental favours. This is not True Christianity and that's where the difference between Christendom and Christ part ways. For all the churches who worship a Triune God are doing the same as Ancient Babylon did, adopting false doctrines that were created by man and not Almighty God. Worship the Virgin Mary will you? The ancient Israelites were doing something similarly detestable long before Mary was even born, something that offended the True God, Jehovah. (Jeremiah 7:18) How about using images and idols in worship. The cross is probably the most revered object in all Christendom but if your best friend in all the world was killed with a .44 magnum, would you be tempted to remember him by making an image of the murder weapon and wearing it around your neck! As the apostle Paul said, "...flee from idolatry." (1 Cor. 10:13,14) And the apostle John's words, " Little children, guard yourselves from idols." (1 John 5:21) Ancient Babylon was destroyed because of her idolatrous behavior, and such will be the outcome of Babylon, the Great. But that need not be any individual's destiny. We are told the way out. (Rev. 18:4,5) As I state in my signature, it's just a matter of time. Time that is swiftly running out! Thanks for reading whirlwind, Agape.