Student Arrested, Tasered at Kerry Event

reply to post by Sight2reality


WTF is wrong with some of the people here. When does it become ok to infringe another's rights? You people are basically saying that we have the right to free speech, unless....

THERE IS NO UNLESS. It's this type of mentality that brings in laws that restricts people's rights. "Oh, everyone should have this right. Unless of course it's over there or there." Don't you people know wtf a right is? The Constitution certainly doesn't say freedom of speech, unless you are speaking to John Kerry about Skull and Bones. It DOES however say freedom of speech.

And to say it's infringing on other's rights to speak, get a grip and stop digging for ridiculous far out points like that. You know as well as I do that nobody else's rights were violated. If we want to go far out like that, then we can also say that since the student was escorted out of the building for asking a question, that fear kept people from asking the real questions they wanted to, therefore infringing everyone else.

[edit on 18-9-2007 by bigbert81]

Originally posted by Sight2reality
I have no need to read the thread in full to give my opinion.

The kid was a jerk. His actions in all honesty took valuable time away from others who probably wanted to excersise their own free speech!

Jerk? He asked legit questions
1.He referenced a book for Mr.Kerry and to the crowd, which highlights that Kerry won the election, He then used that books key points to Ask Mr. Kerry why if these things happened and he did win the election did Kerry not dispute the results.
2.He asked Why Kerry and Congress wasn't doing its job to impeach bush and stop these wars.
3.He asked why/if Kerry was a member of Skull & Bones.

How often is it these days where protesters shout down their opponents? Could that not also be considered an infringement on the rights of others to express their freedom of speech?

No because these things don't prevent anyone from the right to free speech, they can still say what they want can they not? duct tape over their mouths? gun to their heads?

A simple solution could have made this entire situation irrelevant. He could have pointed his questions to John Kerry, rather than berate and insult him. He could have walked off of the podium when asked to.

Questions pertaining to his job, and things he has confirmed in the past are insults?

He could have listened without swinging his arms and pushing police officers.
He, and he alone was wrong in this situation. Could the police have subdued him without the use of the taser???? Probably, the kid looked a little flimsy anyway. They didn't, but its not like they pulled the taser out and hit him with it right away. They gave him warning, and all he had to do was calm down.

Nothing he did warranted those officers touching him, His mic was allowed to stay on the whole time, Kerry wanted to answer all of his questions.

Mabye there is a video on here that shows the event in its entirity, but htis looks like it was an open Q&A fourm, and what was wroung with this guys question? Why is he being arrested. I'm sure if i wasz in a public Q&A fourm, and was askign a question and some cops grabbed me, i would be asking, 'what are you arresting me for?'

Is he getting arested for 'resisting arrest'? Isn't that like a bounus charge, don't you have the be in the process of becomeing under arrest, to resist arrest?

Are we getting to that point, where if someone doesn't like the tone of your voice, or the question the question you ask, the cops can just come and take you, no questions asked? And if you ask 'why are you arresting me?' They can just beat you dawm to the ground and taser your ass for resisting arrest, then book you for resisting arrest.

Thats not how it is supposed to go in this country...

Originally posted by shigawire
I just cant belive that even on this forum some ppl say that police did good thing... I just cant belive this. Innocent man was treated with high voltage and beaten and you say that its "all right mate"? Maybe you deserve to live in police country, brainwashed and safe... In majority of european countries this could not happen, police knows that ppl stand with each other and fight and they usually think before they start a fight especially with large groups of young peoples. When something like this happens you grab nearest chair and beat the s* out of them. When they come back with gas and all, you run, its simple and always works. Thats first thing that comes in my mind, even my girlfriend asked why nobody was defending him. This is America? The land of the free? Sheeps is all what i see. Laughing that someone is beaten by cops and thrown to jail for NOTHING! And idiots arguing that he was to loud and cops did great thing.

Think about time when YOU ask wrong question... Now i know that i dont want americans by my side in that time... At least most of them. And time to ask "wrong" questions is coming in almost every part of the world...

In case everybody didn't see this post, here it is again. It is quite sad that we need a foreigner to tell us how to be free in a country that was founded upon that ideal.

Shigawire, great post.

Originally posted by Sight2reality
A difficult question??? He was accusing the man of some sort of conspiracy. He made a lude comment! He was intentionally trying to cause a problem. Even so, you are wrong!! He didn't get tased for any of this. He got tased for getting beligerant and aggresive with police. He got arrested for non compliance. Just like anyone else would.

No. The officers did not tell him he was being arrested for non-compliance. They told him he was being arrested for "inciting a riot".

You may want to review all of the available footage of the affair.

reply to post by bigbert81


The problem as I've stated earlier, People are confusing rights with privileges

He very much so violated a privilege in that forum, he was alloted a certain amount of time for his question/s and went beyond that.

However violation of a privilege doesn't warrant violations of a right

Those officers violated his rights

I skimmed this thread and pretty much saw what I needed to see, which is the typical knee jerk response in the format du jour for this section of the board.

What happened to this kid? Exactly what he wanted to have happen. I heard about this from two friends and a relative of mine that attend that school and know the guy tasered. Guess what, hes known for this crap. Hes also the kind of guy that makes the rest of the conspiracy theorists look bad, but in general, hes just another attention seeking twit who blames not being hugged enough by mommy for generally attention seeking antisocial behavior.

Lets get some basic facts down
So far at least in the beginning, the kid was not arrested, he was removed, which is the right of the organization putting on the forum.
He does not have the right to free speech in the regard you think. For the undereducated of the group here, which is most of you it appears.. while the kid has the right to free speech, he does not have the right to force a forum for it. This means, he can walk around all day merrily saying "I think Kerry won, Bush is an (insert expletive of choice)" and so on, but at no point is any business owner, publication, media, or anyone else obliged to include it into their program.
The ability to ask Kerry a question was a privelege extended by the current forum provider, when he abused that, the privelege was revolked, plain and simple. if you actually listen, for most of it, he didn't even bother giving Kerry a chance to respond before launching off on another pointless and malformed tirade.
When he became combative and increasingly agitated especially after his mic was turned off, he was being removed. When he became a hazard to the security personnel in question, the restrained him, when he further resisted, he was warned, and when he failed to heed multiple warnings, he got exactly what he was told was going to happen, he got tasered.

Oh, and for those that think wrestling is real, any fool can see the amount of acting and hamming it up the kid was doing.

I'm against the rampant use of tasers and pepper spray, etc, but you knwo what, this time it was warranted.

Frankly, I'm not sure why I bother even reading the replies to these articles half the time, most people here are so ignorant of the actual american government and its processes it makes me want to puke.

... and thats democrats AND republicans alike.

Good day.

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[edit on 18-9-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by C0le
reply to post by bigbert81

 

However violation of a privilege doesn't warrant violations of a right

Those officers violated his rights

Precisely so. The US Constitution with its Bill of Rights should be held with such august reverence that the police as well as the public would not dare to violate another's rights.

I do have a question that I cannot resolve: where were the US citizens who should have immediately challenged this police action? If US citizens will not stand on guard for the civil rights of another citizen, then they will just as surely be deprived of those rights and subjected to such treatment or torture as the authorities decide.

reply to post by Pellevoisin
I heard 2 maybe 3 voices at that event trying to at least verbally stop the officers, Those were the only Americans in that room.


[edit on 18-9-2007 by C0le]

reply to post by CoffinFeeder

I'm against the rampant use of tasers and pepper spray, etc, but you knwo what, this time it was warranted.

Really? Him possibly dying was warranted? Really?

I've already said it a couple of times, and here goes again. 220 Americans have been KILLED by tasers. And considering they're relatively new, I'd say that's A HIGH FRIGGIN' NUMBER!!

So tell us again how it was warranted.

And you have the audacity to call several others ignorant? Maybe you should read about what you talk about just as much as the next guy.

To quote Emeril:

"BAM!!!"

reply to post by C0le


Yes, good point.

Ha! One liner!

Originally posted by CoffinFeeder
I skimmed this thread and pretty much saw what I needed to see, which is the typical knee jerk response in the format du jour for this section of the board. ...

Originally posted by CoffinFeeder
What happened to this kid? Exactly what he wanted to have happen. I heard about this from two friends and a relative of mine that attend that school and know the guy tasered. Guess what, hes known for this crap. Hes also the kind of guy that makes the rest of the conspiracy theorists look bad, but in general, hes just another attention seeking twit who blames not being hugged enough by mommy for generally attention seeking antisocial behavior.

Originally posted by CoffinFeeder
I'm against the rampant use of tasers and pepper spray, etc, but you knwo what, this time it was warranted.

Originally posted by CoffinFeeder
Frankly, I'm not sure why I bother even reading the replies to these articles half the time, most people here are so ignorant of the actual american government and its processes it makes me want to puke.

heh, i cant tell whats worse - your attitude, your self-righteous approach, your condescending tone, or your grand assumptions via word-of-mouth. Now that I think of it, they are all pretty much equal. Your quotes should illustrate my point quite nicely.

Originally posted by CoffinFeeder

Lets get some basic facts down
So far at least in the beginning, the kid was not arrested, he was removed, which is the right of the organization putting on the forum ... he got exactly what he was told was going to happen, he got tasered.

First, you are in error. He was arrested.

Second, once an individual is subdued the further use of the taser upon such a person is in fact an act of torture.

No one deserves torture.

College institutions should be places for the free exchanges of ideas no matter how far out the idea is. So the guys is asking a couple of questions gets no response means that he have to be jump by police officers?

What this country is becoming? No tolerance? You would believe that in a academic institution they would be some basic rights regarding academic freedom.

My question is, did the authorities warn the audience that any improper questions would result police actions, what kind of actions? I mean he didn't even pose a threat to no one.

Just wrong.

[edit on 18-9-2007 by Bunch]

Originally posted by CoffinFeeder


Frankly, I'm not sure why I bother even reading the replies to these articles half the time, most people here are so ignorant of the actual american government and its processes it makes me want to puke.

... and thats democrats AND republicans alike.

Well, I liked your response until I saw this. The man did not deserve to be tasered once he was on the ground and held down.

Originally posted by C0le
reply to post by bigbert81

 

The problem as I've stated earlier, People are confusing rights with privileges

He very much so violated a privilege in that forum, he was alloted a certain amount of time for his question/s and went beyond that.

However violation of a privilege doesn't warrant violations of a right

Those officers violated his rights

First, I want to say am sorry C0le. Am not pointing directly at you with this and please don't take it as a personal attack.. because its not meant to be.

But.. What is all this Double Speak!?!?

A man who was emotionally excited *all humans are at some point, last I checked* had some difficult questions to ask. He did the best he could..

Anyone ever speak in front of a crowd before? I have its not easy, try doing it in front of a crowd of people who believe and support that which you are questioning. Very Very Intimidating.....

For this he was beaten and tortured by the "enforcement".

This man made no threats, didn't act threateningly, kept his hands in clear view, made no aggressive motions toward anyone.. On a low quality video it was clear he had a BOOK in his hands.. A Book, do I need to get a registration to have a book these days? If I wanna carry it in my backpack do I need to have a Permit?!?

How many did it take to hold him down? All of them and then a Taz?! Good lord, what did the "enforcement" do before Tazers? Must have needed 30 people for every one "take down" man. Friends of mine have trained for less then 2 hours a day in self defense for less then a year and easily take down a person 1v1 95% of the time..

Are police no longer trained in personal defense? Isn't that a large part of there training to get the "bad" guys?

It doesn't take a Gov Official, a Police Officer, your Local Chaplin, CNN, the NY Times, a change of verbiage, twisting of events, or any other bs interjected for you to "SEE" what is happening here.

What was done was absolutely morally incorrect! There is no debate in that.. Zip, Zero, Nodda..

Please, USE YOUR BRAIN..

reply to post by Bunch


Hey Bunch, nice to have you on my side for a change.

And huh, it does appear that you do have a bit more sense than I was thinking at first . You're right, WHAT is this country coming to? While men, women, and children are dying overseas in the fight for freedom, we'll simply erradicate here so they die for nothing.

What a joke when you're afraid to ask a question because you think you might get arrested or tased.

Bottom line to this whole thing:
1.The kid was acting WITHIN his rights.
2.The rent-a-cops were WRONG. They should not only be sued, but charged with assault with a deadly weapon, or attempted murder or both!
Period. Case closed, end of story.

But, that will never happen because our whole country is messed up!

For the guy that said tazers don't hurt.. Go down to your local precinct, heck better yet to the Dunkin' Donuts... Prevoke the cop by....I don't know, grabbing his double glazed... Report back to us on how the tazer didn't hurt.. I'm waiting..

reply to post by ThichHeaded


thanks thich headed for directing us to this video on the electric car.i used to work for canada's government at a military installation.the waste shown by destroying a perfectly good car---the ev-1--by gm takes me back to the waste of tax payers money i have witnessed civilian managers employ.broke my heart but not a thing i could do about it except complain and get myself stuck in a -your not going anywhere rebuff.gas prices and nuts on the road-my 2004 gm with 14,000 klicks on it.took for a drive today just to charge up the battery and rotate the tires and pick up some vegies at the farm-do once a year-the car has not been moved or started for 3 months-i have no intentions of ever buying another car----i used to think gm was the only vehicle worth buying----now they and every other car maker has lost me for a customer-----they've priced themselves off my market---i receive $54,000.00 a year pension----and to my mind between the price of cars,taxes,insurence,licensing,safety inspections=destruction of your car by incompetent mechanics,and tolls,etc.etc.-----they've killed the goose that lays the golden egg.i'm glad everything i need to get to is in walking or bicycle distance-even the airport if i have to fly between continents.seems like the world is run by a bunch of crooks.

First off, I have reviewed all of the available tape that I could find.

Now, to the ridiculous comments....

If you shout someone down in a manor that prevents their opinion from being heard, you are impeding there speech. If you are going to try to defend this, there is nothing I would ever be able to do to help the warped thoughts in your head.

To the ridiculous comment towards me defending this jerk...saying that he asked questions about the book, skull and bones, ect. I believe it was COLe who was calling me out. The boy asked a question about the book yes.... But once again, either you aren't metally capable of analyzing and understanding a situation for what it really is, or you are in flat out denial. He asked the question, and John Kerry attempted to answer. Thats when this moron decided to get cute. He didn't even allow the man to respond. And John Kerry tried to respond several times. At that point the kid started being ignorant and beligerant. He actually used the word blow job! That was disrespectful, and added to the fact that he was talking John Kerry down and shouting over him, thats beyond disrespectful. Even after this, John Kerry was still trying to answer, and the police were still giving him his stage, but he went on. Asking another question.

H never let the man even defend himself. The boy, who's maturity begs me to question how he even made it into college, was then asked to leave. He could have handled himself much differently before this point, and after it. Who here can honestly say that they would have been that disrespectful to someone? Who would have then been aggresive towards the police? Who would have said, Get the "Eff" off me"? It takes a rare breed of wacko to go this far. And that breed of wacko does these things intentionally. He was intentionally trying to cause a problem. Good for the police. I would have been OK with it if they roughed him up worse. Obey the rules. Obey the law. None of this happens.