Police caught on tape threatening to destroy and invent evidence

reply to post by Dr Love


And so I respond... it is not odd for this guy to have the same thing happen to him again when most of the population has never had it happen to them once. It's just plain wrong.

What is odd is that this type of thing happens more often than not, and not enough people have a camera handy.


reply to post by Dr Love


Yes, it should be considering there's two cameras (allegedly) running the whole time that caught it all on tape. After all, camera's don't lie.

[edit on 9/10/2007 by Infoholic]

Kid has his camera rolling because Hes had past bad experiences with cops.
If you watched the tape you would have heard that he had a device which detects police radars..And his camera turned on the second that radar alerted him of a cop in the area..
It can be argued he was out looking for this to happen but it doesn't matter really if no crimes were committed the officer was wrong not him.
Refusing to tell an officer what you are doing is your right, and asserting said rights are not probable cause, Its not the officers business what you are doing, where you are going or what you did, unless a law has been broken.
you do not have to talk to an officer at all, you have the right to remain silent, asserting this right is not preventing an officer from doing his job.
a police officers duty is to find, and help prosecute criminals, Letting them search your vehicle, talking to them about your business, will not help you, they are gathering said info to help prosecute you...
your duty as an American citizen is to be free, asserting your rights doesn't make you a jerk or an buthole, it makes you FREE, thats why we have the rights that we do.

[edit on 10-9-2007 by C0le]

Originally posted by section8citizen
As unfortunate and criminal as the situation is that you described, you can not let it change the way you view ALL officers. Not ALL of them are bad, just like not EVERYONE who gets pulled over is bad. You have to give people enough room to hang themselves.

of course, i recognize that. However, the second i see lights, or hear sirens, or even have a bad "vibe" regarding police, that is the first image that comes to mind. So while I may not think all police are like that, I certainly entertain the possibility that the cops is there to # me over, as opposed to there to help me. As events transpire, my perspective usually changes depending on the situation, but I've been conditioned like that, to always assume the worst first.

It's good to know things aren't just like that here on my side of the state (Kansas City
). Here's the sad part, this is not a freak occurance. The problem is, if you go looking for trouble you will find it. I know if my radar detector is going off I don't go near the cop if I see him, in fact I go 5mph under and the opposite direction if possible to avoid stuff like this (yes this same sort of thing has happened to me). The cop pulled me over for going 56 in a 55. He then proceeded to ask me if I was up to date on my car payments. I responded with I don't have any payments, we bought it outright. The officer then took my license and registration, returned and asked me if i stole the car because it was registered to someone else. I said no I didn't steal it, it's in my dads name, but it is my car he gave me. He proceeded to call me a liar and said no parent in their right mind would give a kid a Mercedes '07 S500 (he's prolly right, thanks dad). He arrested me on the grounds that I could not prove I had not stolen the car, even though I have the same last name as my dad. I was in jail for 25 minutes until I was allowed my phone call, and my parents promptly showed up. I was charged with speeding 56 in a 55, and obstruction of justice. The sad thing is it cost my parents $2,000 in a good lawyer to make those charges drop. I think we can all agree the officers actions were completely and utturly unacceptable in your case as well as mine. I would like to see your case go to court. It would be interesting to see how well the officers camera and yours lined up. Surely something would happen to the officers film making the sound unaudible, or they may lose the tape all together. Maybe your case if you take it to court will rattle some cages and finally make some changes.

Originally posted by scientist
of course, i recognize that. However, the second i see lights, or hear sirens, or even have a bad "vibe" regarding police, that is the first image that comes to mind. So while I may not think all police are like that, I certainly entertain the possibility that the cops is there to # me over, as opposed to there to help me. As events transpire, my perspective usually changes depending on the situation, but I've been conditioned like that, to always assume the worst first.

That sir, I can completely understand and I even have to agree. I act very similar to that at the first interaction with a police officer. My guard is up and until he proves to me that he might be one of the good guys, I will keep my guard up and tread carefully.

reply to post by Dr Love


Dr. Love, I'd like to ask what you think this kid did wrong? Let's compare what he did wrong, with what the officer did wrong. I still fail to see your logic here, but I'm certainly open to the idea that I'm just "missing" it.

I didn't even think the kid gave him attitude. I must have missed the class where we learned that asking what you did wrong, when you don't know, is attitude. I mean c'mon man, the kid had more of a right to be there than the cop did. The cop was ON duty, and OUT of jurisdiction. "A lot of cars have been stolen...". Yeah, there were a lot of cars to steal in this lot. The kids' and the cops.

Nobody here has said the cop was wrong for going and making sure everything was ok. Where the cop went wrong was getting inflamed when the kid asked him if he had done anything wrong. Then even more irate when he wouldn't answer questions that he lawfully didn't need to. Does it even matter why he was there? No, the only thing that matters is that it is his right to be there.

Officer: Good evening, everything alright tonight?
Kid: Yes, no problems here, did I do something wrong officer?
Officer: No, you did nothing wrong, it's just that we've had some suicides and car thefts out here lately, and I wanted to make sure everything was alright.
Kid: Thanks, but everything is fine.
Officer: Very well then, have a good evening.

Wow, look how easy this whole thing could have been. And don't try to tell me the kid started it. The officer was baiting him from the beginning.

So Civilians cant hold a preconceived notion and treat every police encounter as if it could go down like this one, But a cop can hold a preconceived notion that all civilians are guilty until proven innocent and to be treated as such?

nice double standard.

My brother in law was a police officer and he was called upon all the time to go into areas the rest of the force would not. The reason he was able to go into some of the worst parts of town without getting shot was because he had showed those in the area respect and thus he received respect.

This officer will end up killed quicker then most because his lack of respect to others. You don't go around treating your fellow citizens like sub humans.

Show me where the recording is so i can destroy it! (no, he didn't say this, but almost...)

Is it just me, or does this cop sound like he might be a little drunk, too? He's slurring speech and clearly acting in an inappropriate manner.

[edit on 9/10/2007 by sp00n1]

Originally posted by tyranny22
reply to post by scientist

 

There's been many times I've been pulled over for no reason and harassed. One was for swerving when I didn't, another was speeding when I was actaully going under the speed-limit, another was for not wearing my seatbelt, which I was, but the cop said I put it on after I saw him (I never saw him until the blue lights came on - and he would have had it on camera if it were true).

I've always simple agreed, "Yes officer, no officer, you're right office." And that's all they wanted to hear. Always let me go. You just have to feed their ego.

I hear you. I went for 35 years never having a ticket for a moving violation. Heck I didn't even have a parking ticket.

I was driving in Cruise Control at 56mph (back when it was 'drive 55') and I was passed on a downhill by a bus.

Next thing I know, I'm pulled over. I started to say 'but I was on Cruise control', but then figured, 'maybe my speed calibration is off?', and then 'if he knows I wasn't speeding, and still stopped me, then arguing is pointless'.

At no time did I go faster than about 57mph in a 55 zone; my cruise control will actually slow the car down going down a hill.

Quite frustrating.

Edit: Oh, heh, charged with doing 62. Huh? Sixty-two? Guess if you're going to pick a bogus number, pick one that sounds real. (slim chance that he got the bus not me, and the bus was easily going 70. I got pulled over on the next hill less than 1/4 mile (so yeah, it was real easy to catch me, b/c, guess what, only crawling along at 56mph, duh).)

I was going to say, 'if I was going so fast how come I'm stopped talking to you just one hill over?' But he could twist that into being sassy, so I didn't say a word, and just thanked him and let him drive off first.


[edit on 10-9-2007 by Badge01]

Brett: I don't want any problems officer.
Officer #1: You're about ready to get it. You already start your ****ing problems with your attitude. Did we have a bad night boy? Huh? Answer me or I'll lock you up for failure to imply with a police officer's commands.
Brett: Cause I'm not answering your questions about my personal business?
Officer #1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You want me to show you? You want me to show you? You want me to lock you up to show you I'm right and you're wrong?
Brett: No I don't officer.
Officer #1: You want me to show you the ****ing law.
Brett: No, I mean I know Sean who used to work here. [A new neighbor of mine that used to work in the St. George police department]
Officer #1: Sean who? You mean my buddy, my best friend?
Brett: Yeah. He's me neighbor.
Officer #1 Okay, he's my best friend. Oh good. Why don't you go call him and tell him you came in front of Kenline and see what he says If you got lucky you'll walk away from me.
Brett: I really don't want any trouble officer.

Officer #1: What are you doin' with a camera hooked to your car seat?
Brett: I have lots of cameras in my car.
Officer #1: Why is that?
Brett: And they upload to secure sources
Officer #1: Okay. I don't really care about your secure sources. I've got one in my car. See that?
Brett: Okay.
Officer #1: It's a secure source.
Brett: Okay.
Officer #1: I really don't care about your camera system cause I'm about ready to tow your car. Then we can tear them all apart...
Brett: Oh well, it doesn't matter. The videos not even in here.

Officer #1: Okay, it doesn't matter, I really don't care about your video
Brett: I'm sure the news will like it.
Officer #1: I don't really care cause you're about ready to go to jail.
Brett: I don't want to go to jail officer.
Officer #1: I'm gonna show you you're about ready to.
Brett: You're right officer
Officer #1: Okay.
Brett: I'm sorry.
Officer #1: You think these security cameras -- I guarantee ya, mine and my boy mic is gonna tell a little different and your attitude.
Brett: I don't want any problems.

Wow...

Originally posted by C0le
So Civilians cant hold a preconceived notion and treat every police encounter as if it could go down like this one, But a cop can hold a preconceived notion that all civilians are guilty until proven innocent and to be treated as such?

nice double standard.

This is actually a very good point that I did not consider, but I have to say that a very old saying comes to mind when I read it. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Who is to say that ALL cops hold a preconceived notion that all citizens are criminals? I can say honestly, and I have had A LOT of run ins with law enforcement, that this has NOT been my experience. I have met bad cops and good cops alike. I have met cops just like the one in this video, and I have met cops who acted just like you would hope they would.

Is it a good idea to hold a preconceived notion when dealing with police? I say no. Just like a police officer, each citizen should judge the situation at hand and with the person you are dealing with, and not base your opinions of someone you do not know on an experience with someone else.

reply to post by section8citizen

Well its been my experience on many occasions, that respectfully asserting your rights, can turn a seemingly good cop into an a bad cop.

You don't give up your rights or settle on them just because a cop is being or seems nice, If he truly is a good cop, he will respect your rights and do whats within his legal duty, if its determined he has none in the situation, he will let you go on about your business no questions asked.
He wont make stuff up or write up petty violations to prevoke you or try to get you to do something to justify himself..


cops are actors, they are trained to get info, they are trained to do and say things to make you talk, this training includes playing GOOD COP, getting you to relate to them or them you...

[edit on 10-9-2007 by C0le]

Originally posted by Umbrax
reply to post by Badge01

 

I never said anything about telling anyone you have a camera.

Tell; they discover. Sorry if I was imprecise, and you are correct you never said that.

Like I said search on YouTube for police brutality and you will see a number of videos. Without video evidence you've got nothing. Had this guy not had a cam rolling in his car this thread wouldn't exist.

I now carry a small video cam with me on my bike, and will use it, regardless of my fears of confiscation or escalation, but having it implies to some people that you're trying to catch someone or set them up.

Did not mean to imply one should NOT use/carry a camera. More like lamenting 'for all the good it will do you with a determined adversary'.

Certainly I agree it was a good thing here and we are in accord.

reply to post by C0le


Weather the cop is being cool or not, a person should NEVER compromise their rights. I hope my post did not give off that impression. What I was simply trying to say was the holding onto preconceived notions is just not a good idea. Not for the cops, not for the citizens, not for anyone. Things like that breed hate. Ask any young Aryan Skinhead and he can throw out a lot of preconceived notions about Blacks, Jews, Asians etc.

Like I said earlier I am on guard when I first begin interacting with an officer. Usually in the first few minutes you will find out what his intentions are and how you are going to be treated. To hold onto a preconceived notion about how you will be treated by a police officer is just ignorant. The reverse is also true, for a police officer to have some preconceived notion about the car he pulled over before even speaking to the driver is ignorant.

Edited to add: You are right. Respectfully asserting your rights (with some officers) is an just like spitting in their face and is taken as some sign of aggression or "being a smart ass"



[edit on 10/9/2007 by section8citizen]

[edit on 10/9/2007 by section8citizen]

I use to live in St. George or right on the outskirts if you want to call it that..It's known for it's speed traps. If you do 1 mile over 35 they pull you over..As a teenager it was common for them to harass and force us to let them search our cars..The bad part is it's actually only a mile or two of road that they do this on called Revis Barracks.. It's in between Gravois and 55..So this doesn't surprise me in the least

The cop should be repremanded to a degree, but certainly shouldn't lose his job. The kid was parking in a dark parking lot at night. There's nothing wrong with the cop seeing what's up.

he should lose his job and be beaten severely.

theres nothing wrong with the cop seeing whats up, true.

however in this case he fabricated probable cause and charges, then at the last minute dismissed them when he realized he was caught.

i suppose you wouldn't mind if it happened to you, judging by the demeanor of your post.

i most certainly would not let it slide in any way shape or form.

Originally posted by KINGOFPAIN
is there anyway to write the department he's apart of?i tried to find them on the web,but it seems like the P.D. is without a web site.

i would really like to see what is going to happen to this cop,it has my blood running hot....

You most likely won't. They are a very small department..Last time I lived there I think they had four officers.

Surely that cop needs a psychological examination??? He was volatile, irrational, non-sensical and very aggresive.

I also had a "run in" with the cops a while back, I was pulled over at a busy intersection because I had tinted front windows. I have one of those car alarms that arms itself after about a minute or so, the officer and his partner made me exit my car to ask me some questions and after a few minutes his partner demanded to search my car which I had no problem with but when he opened the door the alarm went off. I asked the officer if I could go and show his partner how to turn it off and he said "sure go head" I didn't even take two steps towards the car when I was hit from behind with a night stick and I dropped like a sack of potatoes. He kept on hitting me for no apparent reason but there were allot of folks around that ran up to my aid asking what the hell this guy was doing. This was a regular car with my daughters car seat in the back and the only reason the windows were tinted was to protect my daughter from the sun, this happened in California. I filed a formal complaint with the department but nothing has come of it.