When will you stand up for your country?

Originally posted by Horus8
Really, and how pray tell did you pay the Indians and Zulus back?
By giving them back the land that was already their land before England invaded and colonized. Oh, you mean like how England pays the Irish back, a sort of you kill us, we kill you, you kill us, we kill you?
That's brilliant, and after the Boar wars how exactly did you pay the Africans back in South Africa and Rhodesia? Oh, I see, by taking all of their oil, diamonds, gold, and land in the name of the Queen.
Yes, that's a brilliant pay back. Cheers
As far as I'm concerned any nation that bows before a bloodline
of claimed royal descent might as well be bowing to the devil.
Men should look up, not down. America's fortunes and England's
fortunes, they are one in the same.

[edit on 08/14/2007 by Horus8]

You have a few points buried in there i am sure, i just wish the where seperated we can only apologise for the past and attempt to ammend in the future if that means giving lands back then so be it..

We can't give northen ireland back the people who live there DO NOT WANT IT.

as for bowing before a bloodline lol i agree to a certain extent i do not like monarchy... there more figure heads nowadays there for the tourists but the majority of people dont care for them to much.

Your sweeping generilization is a racist attack on Britan and America and will not help the world evolve in any way whatsoever.

the current populace cannot be held responsible for our ancestors mistakes we can only try to learn and grow from them.

Kindly stick to the thread topic, or start your own thread 'Britain and America empire building scumbugs' then we can all comment on there.

What is it with this site people always trying to derail threads with attacks on countries and branding everyone with the same iron .. you are the one with no room to grow and its why the world is doomed the way it is..

Its time to put down the crack pipe maybe go stroke some fluffy bunnies or look at some pretty clouds ...Hey Maybe you should move from your location of LOS ANGELES because you sure wouldnt want to live in a system that you hate and support with your taxes ....

I don't know that we have reached the point of open revolt just yet, but if things continue it might. I do feel though that most Americans don't have the stomach or the will to pick up arms against its own government. I think that if people have their jobs to go to, their suvs to drive, and their playstations they will never rise up. And as far as martial law goes most of our troops are else where and law enforcement is thin so there will be a small number to enforce it. Unless the government brings in foreign troops to supplement. I hold out hope though that if martial law were declared that our soldiers and cops wouldn't act like nazis and fire on its own people. I also hope that our generals would organize their own coup against an out of control executive branch.

Those of us that read and know what the constitution says are very angry. The problem is we no longer have a vote, the machines are corrupted at the polling centers, so we really CANT VOTE ANYMORE. OUR SENATE AND HOUSE ARE BOUGHT AND PAID FOR BY CORPORATE INTERESTS. NEITHER PARTY GIVES A # ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION. And our parents sit ant home and tell us everything is fine, if you dont like the war your not patriotic, your a liberal what is so bad about your life they say, were doing great ! They watch FOX or CNN and are brainwashed by this bull#. When you try to give them facts, they laugh, and say our governemnt would never use those patriot bill acts against US citizens those are for the terrorists. They say do you actually belive our goverment is evil , I say YES. Mom and Dad, just like they would never use black people to experiment on or inject with diseases right? Then I give them a slew of other atrocities that I can prove through history and they just shake their heads and refuse to acknowledge what I say. THIS complacency are the majority of americans right now. Their clueless, and too stupid to read anything anymore or actually THINK for themselves. I'm a combat vet and a former police officer, I'm disgusted with our government right now. ALL of them. Its time to clean house. Hang them all for treason.

since when did England have an Empire ??? First ive ever heard of it !!

Oh it may have been when we held a lil bit of France but lost it again or when we beat the scots and the welsh! Is that when we took the name Britain or was that When the Romans were here (bloody romans) as in Britannia , hmm i dunno , but , again i see a good thread being usurped by the Brit bashers in the US and US bashers here , We are all connected thru the most beautiful language and dont forget that! its called English lol.. even with its Francogermanic roots lol .......

Personally speaking I think we as two nations are both being led up the garden path and if we do not do something soon we will probably live to regret it or possibly not live... Is there anything we can do tho ? really ? Can we please stop the nationality bashing and come under the ATS banner tho, it gets a little boring hearing the same old tripe !!

Regards to ALL

GIT

...okay...so I was just minding my own business and I logged on to revisit this thread and the first thing I read was regarding "Indians and Zulus...". I'm sorry but...I had to double check my click. Apparently linear thought is difficult for some but at least they are fun to pick on. LOL!

Originally posted by completenuttergit
since when did England have an Empire ??? First ive ever heard of it !

GIT

Judging from your grasp of the English language, and history in general somehow your statement does not surprise me. I am not bashing the English people, or the American people. What I'm saying is both governments have been in bed together for an awfully long time, and they care very little for people in general. Money however, royal gossip, and celebraty-ism certainly is high on their list of importance though.

England had an empire back when your ancestors were toting wooden rakes and shovels, and they certainly still do now while you're toting your cell phone. Except, as always, the royals come first with their giant ears and reptilian teeth, and you come second.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
...okay...so I was just minding my own business and I logged on to revisit this thread and the first thing I read was regarding "Indians and Zulus...". I'm sorry but...I had to double check my click. Apparently linear thought is difficult for some but at least they are fun to pick on. LOL!

Well if this is your first time hearing about how the English F'd over India and large portions of Africa and the middle east then that sounds like not a problem on my account of being non-linear (it's rather historical fact), but a problem on your account of being illiterate wouldn't you say?

Originally posted by Horus8

Originally posted by kosmicjack
...okay...so I was just minding my own business and I logged on to revisit this thread and the first thing I read was regarding "Indians and Zulus...". I'm sorry but...I had to double check my click. Apparently linear thought is difficult for some but at least they are fun to pick on. LOL!

Well if this is your first time hearing about how the English F'd over India and large portions of Africa and the middle east then that sounds like not a problem on my account of being non-linear (it's rather historical fact), but a problem on your account of being illiterate wouldn't you say?

no he's saying your posts although may have a place somewhere in another thread or in your own thread.. they have no place in This thread it is totally unrelated to the topic.. pls could u at least answer the question in my original post instead of raking over old stuff.

Pray tell the where abouts of this English Empire and to call me thick in not so many words is not very nice and a little aggressive .

My language is fine , i speak English fluently,

Also i did not specifically mention u about nationality bashing , i was , infact , making a genral remark. It seems to be a more a common thing on here , now .

I do believe the above to be gramatically correct!

Back to the thread

I thankyou .




[edit on 16-8-2007 by completenuttergit]

Horus8,

This is my 3rd attempt at writing this so i'm getting quite p.o.'d.

The BRITISH Empire, not English but British, a big difference, did indeed commit acts of brutality and exploitation.
Were they any different from the Ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Persians or from The Spanish when they forged and governed their empires? I suspect not.
If we hadn't done it someone else would have. I poor excuse granted but a fact.
Acts of brutality do occur, war isn't nice, it's not touchy feely time you know. Grow up and get real.

I don't see the value of using the morals and standards of today when judging the actions of yesterday and I will not apologise for the acts of my ancestors.

Should we continue to villify the US for their treatment of Native Americans long after you had achieved independance?
Should we persecute Spain for the way they decimated a complete civilisation in South America?
No it's deconstuctive and will achieve nothing. So continue going on about The British Empire and it's actions.

Yes, we need to learn what caused the deplorable acts and try to ensure that we don't repeat them, something we are failing to do miserably.

To single out the British Empire for blame over slavery is blinkered. Yes some UK citizens made an obscene profit from an odious trade but so did numerous Americans along with some French, German, Spanish and Belgian and not to forget the native africans who also profitted.

Ireland, a touchy subject if ever there was one. It is a can of worms which perhaps should be best left unopened....
The portion of Ireland that wanted independance from Britain have got it.
The vast majority of people in Northern Ireland want to stay in the British Union and they will do as long as they want to.
The Troubles were extended partially due to some Americans continuing to finance terrorists to slaughter numerous innocent people including women and children.
You must be proud of that!

I have come to respect and admire America and it's citizens. I genuinely believe that the world would be a much worse place without it's involvement in world affairs.
Even though I don't agree with some of it's policies I believe most Americans are honourable people and well intentioned.
I also like the diversity of opinions and beliefs.
That is a generalisation that cannot be extended to every one.

To criticise a Brit is for commenting on American events and then insulting the monarch of another of another country is disrespectful at best and sheer ignorant at worst.

How you can label me as brainwashed when you know nothing about me, where I come from or an of my circumstances or beliefs is beyond me and then to compound it by calling me a brat, you couldn't be further from the truth.

Your comments are disrespectful to the numerous military personel who fight for both our great countries.
Regardless of my beliefs I have the utmost respect for anyone who enters a theatre of war and fights for his country.

GIT,

Shot, Bang on Marra, I wish I could be as succinct in my replies.

Couldn't agree more.

I mean, but don't take my word for it. I know they haven't invented a video game yet that you guys can play and learn these historical facts for yourselves so here:


rense.com...

www.guardian.co.uk...

www.rense.com...

www.rense.com...

And you can blame me in the end for popping your hubba bubba bubbles of patriotism and nationalism with my chopstick of literacy. Whatever happened to individualism and self responsibility?

Originally posted by Horus8
I mean, but don't take my word for it. I know they haven't invented a video game yet that you guys can play and learn these historical facts for yourselves so here:


rense.com...

www.guardian.co.uk...

www.rense.com...

www.rense.com...

And you can blame me in the end for popping your hubba bubba bubbles of patriotism and nationalism with my chopstick of literacy. Whatever happened to individualism and self responsibility?

lmao 3 links from Rense .. oh and a link how british troops are under equipped in the gaurdian that just about somes it up for me , most respectable people take rense seriously NOT.. hey maybe your right we have all been brainwashed and your the only sane person here... statistically speaking tho i could have that the wrong way round



[edit on 16/8/07 by Quantum_Squirrel]

[LARGE QUOTE REMOVED BY STAFF]


A. Because others have done it before does that make it okay to do it now?

B. Monarchs are ridiculous puppets propped up to befuddle your already horribly befuddled minds. Please explain to me why they should be rich, and still tax you to death? Why they should be bowed to, while you should be in an unemployment line. If that's not brainwashed weirdness I don't know what is.

C. I certainly did not single out the british empire as slavers, I said Cecil Rhodes, take it as you will.

D. I am an Ex Navy SEAL I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about as far as serving your country and military prowess goes, thanks, but why don't you grab a gun and go fight since you're so concerned with the morale of English and American soldiers? Talk is cheap, I've paid my dues.

E. Your respect and admiration of America is built on the same lies they would have all of us believe. Freedom.

[edit on 17-8-2007 by elevatedone]

Freeborn,

Love that pic !!

It really gets me when we get told our own history and the info supplied is off the mark!

I enjoyed very much your post ! especially the part about the "BRITISH" empire .

Hope my literacy is ok .

Regards
GIT

reply to post by Horus8


Step away from the edge please. I'm just wondering what any of this has to do with the thread topic.

Originally posted by Mister J
I don't know that we have reached the point of open revolt just yet, but if things continue it might. I do feel though that most Americans don't have the stomach or the will to pick up arms against its own government. I think that if people have their jobs to go to, their suvs to drive, and their playstations they will never rise up. And as far as martial law goes most of our troops are else where and law enforcement is thin so there will be a small number to enforce it. Unless the government brings in foreign troops to supplement. I hold out hope though that if martial law were declared that our soldiers and cops wouldn't act like nazis and fire on its own people. I also hope that our generals would organize their own coup against an out of control executive branch.

I agree completely, If foreign troops land on our shores for any show of force Americans would make them feel like they are in Iraq but much much worse. Our government only thinks they can control us but when we have had it with them we will make them walk the plank. I still hope it never comes to this because it wont be pretty.

Horus,

Complete quotes, tut tut hope the mods don't come down too hard on you.

Back on thread,

A. No, it's not ok to do it now, that's what we should learn from previous acts and deeds. I was merely pointing out that by the morals and standards of the day it was acceptable then and to apportion blame on those nationalities is pointless and achieves nothing.
We, the UK and US have obviously learnt nothing and we should be held to account for the actions that occur in the here and now.
As OP stated, at what point do we stand up, are we prepared to and what form will any action take? Not neccesarily armed insurrection.

B. I agree, but our monarch has no actual power now, she is a figure head and the only justification I hear for their continuance is the amount of tourist money they attract into the country. Weak and lame imo but there you go.
We adressed the issue of monarchs having power centuries ago.
We chopped a kings head off and then fought a civil war over it.

C.Cecil Rhodes was British.
Numerous other nations were involved in the slave trade.
Why single out a Britain?

D.I respect you for fighting, it takes a brave man.
You are correct I have not fought for my country, for various reasons I was not allowed to join our forces. That does not lessen my respect, if anything it increases it. I owe a debt of sorts.
Several of my close friends have, not all of them are still with us.
I miss them.

E. My respect is for the American people, not it's government or institutions.

I have absolutely no doubt that there is a cabal of old families / organisations / societies whose links go back generations and cross religous and national divides, who are continuing to exploit and manipulate current world events to further their own hidden agendas.

I think some of the ramblings in this thread are a great example of how people are overwhelmed by all of the tactics of the powers that be. Minds are cluttered by so much information, disinformation and especially

triangulation: "You are mad at me because I did a bad thing!?...See that guy over there he did a really, really bad thing...Let's be mad at him together and maybe you will forget you were ever even mad at me to begin with...Oh yeah, and I'll just keep doing what I was doing in the first place that made you so mad!"

Focus people.

If you don't trust the voting machines, vote for an arbitrary candidate and demand to see your vote in print after the elections. Remember Iraqis counting votes by candle light?

America would need a lot of data points for the statistical accuracy of the voting system to be properly evaluated.

I do also wonder whether our spiffy new voting machines meet federal TEMPEST shielding requirements. Anybody else catch that US Coast Guard Deepwater nonsense?

Boycott the two-party system. Vote with the Mickey Maus Party.