When will you stand up for your country?

Posted by Kronos:

To be honest with you, I really dont know who or what organization calls the shots around here but I am willing to bet that it is sort of a collection of people that are in very powerful positions in the business and the military.

When trying to find the power, you always look for the money. I think that is a classic rule of thumb. I would venture to say the people you speak of that are running the show are none other than the owners of the private organization the federal reserve. If you want to know the answers, you would be best suited looking into the men that own these banks: 1. Rothschild Bank of London 2. Warburg Bank of Hamburg 3. Rothschild Bank of Berlin 4. Lehman Brothers of New York 5. Lazard Brothers of Paris 6. Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York 7. Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy 8. Goldman, Sachs of New York 9. Warburg Bank of Amsterdam 10. Chase Manhattan Bank of New York.

These are the central banks of the world. This is where damn near every dime in circulation goes through. These are the same banks that own probably 60% of all the worlds known gold and probably more like 90% of all the worlds known bullion. you want the answers, thats where they start.

In my opinion the federal reserve was the beginning of the downward spiral we now call our nation. And we all can thank the once so called great leader of this country woodrow wilson for signing the federal reserve act of 1913 into law, in return for campaign contributions.

It was intended to create nationwide supression of the american people. And drain them of every nickel they have. The idea is to make the people spend, spend, spend every damn dollar they have and every dollar they dont have(credit). To keep them in debt to the system in which creates supression which in turn creates control. On top of all of that, the people who own the federal reserve are getting ridiculously rich. They own the majority of all the precious metals and all other gems and basically anything of major value.



Posted by Xtronzero:

We the people voted him and every president into office and next year we will vote a new one in plain and simple.


Dont take this the wrong way, but if you think the people ELECT the president of the United States every 4 years, you are very nieve. Not every president has been elected by the people. I guess you forget the big time obvious vote fraud of the 2004 election. Remember Kerry had a good size lead. And everyone went to bed thinking Kerry was the new president, then bam you wake up only to see dubya once again "elected". sorry bro, exit polls cant be that inaccurate. that election was an obvious rig job to get another bush into office. Since dubya would be on the same page as the ones who are calling the shots.


Posted by Swatmedic

Well, if you spend a great deal of time on this board you would certainly think that a revolution is coming. This board is very anti-government and it tilts so far to the left I have a hard time keeping my laptop upright.

I agree, you can start to think your going insane if you believe everything on this board. But alot of what is on this forum does hold weight. And alot of it at that. I have to take month long breaks from this board as it can weigh heavy on your moral.


Posted by The Borg:

The real question is when will everyone realize that we're already in this position?

The Borg is on the right page. With every rediculous bill passed by this crooked administration the american people are growing more and more aware. But to be honest, its not enough. The methodical stripping of liberties and tightening of the leashes is happening at light speed during this administration. I feel they are pushing their agenda along at a record pace. But its all covered up by the word TERRORISM. People need to realize terrorism has been around since anyone can remember. The word terror is being used as a con in this unjust war.

I see the Brit bashing is still continuing on this thread.

All the OP asked was what would it take for you stand up for your country and what form, if any, would that action take.
A perfectly legitimate question in my book.
If that has offended some of you Americans well, tough, it just shows how shallow some of you can be and certainly isn't representative of the Americans I have come to respect.

No insult was ever intentioned and the OP has quite graciously re-iterated himself on several occassions.
He, or no-one else for that matter, has ever displayed, we are British and we know best attitude, and to be honest, the question is just as relevant to Brits as it is to Americans.

Please review all posts in the thread then i'm sure you'll understand most of the views expressed.

Horus,
In reply to your points on southern and central africa.
Yes they are truly terrible times and we should be doing more to address the oppression that continues to this day. But to lay the blame all on Rhodes is unfair.
Yes, he does appear to have been quite a despicable character whose motivation seems to have been exploitation and the advancement of hidden agenda's but this is being perpetuated by corrupt, native africans. You can not put the blame for Mugabe's actions in Zimbabwe on Rhodes.
Mugabe is decimating his own country and we stand idly by and allow him, why, very little mineral wealth for the west to exploit.
Additionally, I think there is an element of some residual racial issues.
The west fears to get too involved for fear of accusations of continued colonialism.
The system is caught in a self perpetuating loop of aid and corruption.
The west are not solely to blame for this.

Just one more point, again to re-iterate what has been stated several times;
The British Monarchy has no say in British policy and are merely figure heads and ceremonial.
Ridiculous, yes, any less less so than pledging allegiance to a flag, I don't think so.

Sorry for going off thread a bit again but......

posted by malganis:

Then we see things like 9/11 and 7/7 bombings where even though there is a lot of interesting information to suggest that they were inside jobs/cover ups, no one wants to know about it! People just say "oh well it's happened now, there's nothing you can do about it". It's the same with issues like Iraq, etc

Exactly, its like people dont care as long as it dont directly affect them. but what they dont realize is if things dont change, soon it is going to directly affect everyone.

Posted by The Borg:

Let's just hope that this can be stopped before blood has to be spilled.

Seems we share alot of the same thoughts The Borg.

Posted by The Borg:

All that I"m suggesting by this is that not everyone in every organization is in it for the same reasons. Everyone has their own reasons for doing things. Let's not be too hasty to judge others for something that we have no proof for.

I agree to a certain point i guess. And honestly i dont know where that point begins and ends or what even lies in between those two points. But people generally know right from wrong. And people generally know when they are doing something they should not be. Yet they choose to do them, for what reasons only they know. I guess some reasons could be money. Some reasons could be false promises. Or lets say fear. The C.I.A. is as crooked as they come. The C.I.A. is the like the ultimate mafia. They are damn near untouchable. And i would venture to say the C.I.A. are the watchdogs of the federal reserve owners that i talked about in a previous post.

Posted by Mammoth:

I'm dutch and i'm more concerned with outside politics, far more than the politics of this small insignificant country. These outside politics are more important and when you think about it, have more chance to change the course of my life

Absolutely great point. When you talk politics in any country, i would guess the U.S. comes up in damn near every conversation. And like one poster said, with the u.s. having their footprints all over the world, you better believe people should take an interest into what the administration is up too.

Posted by Paul76:

We have comfortable lives compared to other people of this world, it would have to be something very extreme for such a event to happen.

Good point paul. This is one of the biggest problems with the world today. noone cares. what i mean is noone cares what is going on unless it directly affects them. And to be honest, that is total B.S. i dont care if your asian, chinees, russian, iranian, american, venezuelan, we are all human beings. we all cry, we all get mad. but in the end 99.9% of this peoples world just want to be happy and have peacefull times and get by. its the 0.01% of this world(the so called leaders) who screw it all up with their big game of what i like to call monopoly. Thats what it seems like, who can control the most property and assets. They are playing one big game.

People are so quick to say MY COUNTRY. How about we start saying MY WORLD. I think it has a better ring to it. And it will definately go along way to bringing everyone together instead of pushing us further apart. The so called leaders of respective countries play the people of their country against the people of other countries to achieve certain parts of their agenda. Basically creating wars, to create money, to get valuable resources, etc. etc. This is also known as propaganda.

Posted by Geemoney:

Clinton was elected for two terms, so to say we got rid of him is just one way of how you show you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Clinton was pushed out of office. Someone(s) higher up than clinton himself wanted him out. Otherwise they would have just put the wraps on the whole monica Lewinsky scandal. I mean come on, its the president. He has enough power to cover up some ridiculous sex scandal, lol.

Posted by Interestingfx:

Here is the problem, MONEY!

Very nice post interestingfx. I didnt want to copy and paste your whole post, so i just put the heading which pretty much explains it all.

I understand where you are coming from about using the media. But how can you use the media that is controlled by the powers that be. National tv, which is what you would have to use to get the point across to a wide variety of people is the same tv that is controlled by the highers. So how exactly are you to create an infomercial that is set up to bring the cat out of the bag about the corruption and deceit that has been going on, when they control it?

Posted by America Jones:

Do an Internet search for "mena arkansas iran contra" and "Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act" and then consider whether Bill Clinton was really so great, or whether he was actually one of our more discrete tyrants who understood to what type of scrutiny he would be subjected as President.

GREAT POST!!

Posted by Carewemust:

No President is perfect and they ALL feel that they're doing the rightthing for the country. Even with their mistakes, the USA is still the
best place to live, if you're an independent thinker with dreams and
aspirations. I haven't seen the recent stats, but I'd bet my right arm
that there are more people applying to enter the USA than their are
USA citizens moving out of this country.

No offense carewemust. But to say that this is still the best place to live and to insinuate that is reasoning enough to not care what is going on is just ludicrous. Its a cop out. This goes back to the I dont care as long as it dont directly affect me logic.

Posted by Tyranny22

In my opinion, the President with the least "Private Agenda" was probably JFK. His agenda was more about Human rights and equality,

Im still a youngin and can only go off of what my mom and the older folks in my life have to say about jfk and of course all the readings i have gone over. And from what i have gained, i would have to agree. And that is why he was assasinated by the c.i.a. in my opinion. jfk was going to take on the dangerous task of breaking up the fed. and im sure he knew he could face the ultimate demise for doing so. and guess what he did. they took his life. He is a TRUE PATRIOT and will never be forgotten by the TRUE PATRIOTS OF THIS COUNTRY.

Posted by Jtma508:

One of the major problems we (the People) face is this whole Republican-vs-Democrat-Left-vs-Right dynamic. Face it people, its differnt colors of the same thing. 'They' are all equally responsible for the problem. By perpetuating that polarity they are utilizing one of the most basic tactics in population control: divide and conquer. We can't effect change if we don't see ourselves on the same side. 'They' know this and use it against us.

Bingo!! Make you choose a side and keep everyone fighting amongst eachother.

Posted by Xfile:

Im just as upset with the people who voted this corrupt buffoon in(TWICE!!)as with the administration itself.How could they still buy the lip service even after the first term?

He wasnt elected. he was selected. remember the 04 voting fraud scandal. Remember when you went to bed kerry was president by a substantial margain, and you woke up it was duby taking the throne once again.

Posted by Swatmedic:

There have been some very good reply's in this thread from different sides and viewpoints. I still think that many people bitch and complain just because they dont like who is in the white house and I'll bet whoever is next to be President will probably have his/her legion of naysayers and haters as well.

I agree, but it isnt with validity. People are fed up bro. Fed up with all the lies and b.s. that surrounds our gov. Its totally out of control and needs and will be fixed. And by what means is yet to be determined. Lets hope it isnt a bloody one.

Standing up for ones country. I have. But it seems that most of the people , in all countries , have distractions in there daily lives. And I believe that this was thrust upon you, these distractions as a tactic. Keeping you and I thinking about other things that are important, like housing,food,money,sports,and family. By letting others know what is going on is a good start. But no one wants to rock the there boat. They meaning you and I do not want to sink and drown. In the media as we all know are controlled to get you to think about this and that while no one in the media tells you about meetings that effect your daily life , not unlike the NAU. There is a secret government. They are in control. Just have to let everyone know, exactly what is going on. What exactly is going on, well we have to do our research. Read. Educate ourselves. Know what to do in any circumstance related to your daily life.When we feel secure about ourselves in any given problem, then we can do something. This post IS doing something.

Originally posted by Quantum_Squirrel

wow dude Deny ignorance remember!!

Yeah perhaps you should follow your own advice...

Originally posted by Quantum_Squirrel
We went to war with IRAQ under False pretenses WMD..

False pretenses?.... First of all many reasons were given to oust Saddam from power. Do yourself a favour and actually read what the President of the United States said in front of the UN and the world in 2002 as the reasons for ousting Saddam, and his regime from power...

Here since some people are too lazy to actually do research and "deny ignorance" here is the speech i am talking about...

Read it and then come here again to tell us "wmd" was a false pretense or the only reason for ousting Saddam's regime.

www.whitehouse.gov...

Also for some reason people like yourself keep forgetting that pretty much every leader in the world believed Saddam had WMD until months passed after the war started and the stockpiles were not found....

The Russian president and Russian intelligent agencies were even giving reports and information to the United States since 9/11 and up to the beginning of the war that SAddam was planning on making terrorist attacks on U.S. soil.

But after the war several of the same people and countries who were claiming also that SAddam had WMD for some reason people started deciding that they wanted a scapegoat and point fingers at the United States...

IMO the United States was set up, Russian, China and some other countries armed Saddam, if you actually do some real research you will also find that the mayority of the chemical weapons and other WMD programs that Iraq had, had been sold to them by European countries such as Germany in the 80s, and after the 90s Russia became IRaq's main supplier of WMD material and banned weapons material.

There are several reasons why the Russians, Chinese and other countries would want to do this. Saddam was probably told by these countries they would help him, but at the end Saddam was used as a scapegoat to get the United States in the position it is now. Russian generals themselves have stated on Russian newspapers that they were watching very carefully the responses and the tactics used by the United States...

The Russian government was also found to have been giving information about our troops movements to Saddam's regime during the war through the Russian Embassador in Iraq.

There have been several high ranking officers, from both Russia and Iraq, such as Sada who was the second in command of the Iraqi Air Force, and he stated alongside otehrs that he had seen aircraft being retrofitted to move WMD out of Iraq.

Russian military defectors told us about "sarindar" style plans which the Russian government still has in place to hide, move or get rid of WMD from countries like Iraq when the west got too close to them.

Anyways, all of the above is for another discussion.

Originally posted by Quantum_Squirrel
the 'terrorists' of which i assume you speak are the 9/11 ones? i think they all came from saudi arabia and were trained in afghanistan ( i believe the terrorist training camp videos in Iraq were later proved to be false also)..so now you tell me why are we in IRAQ?..and like my original question states when something is done that is the final nail in the coffin for you .. what would that be? and what would you do ?

Putin says Iraq planned US attack

Russian President Vladimir Putin says that after the 9/11 attacks Moscow warned Washington that Saddam Hussein was planning attacks on the US.

He said Russia's secret service had information on more than one occasion that Iraq was preparing acts of terror in the US and its facilities worldwide.

Mr Putin said he had no information the Iraqi ex-leader was behind any attacks.

It came a day after US President George W Bush insisted there had been links between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda.

He disputed the preliminary findings of a US commission investigating the 9/11 attacks on Washington and New York that found no "credible evidence" of a relationship between the two.

Surprise remarks

Speaking on a visit to Kazakhstan, Mr Putin said Russia had warned the US on several occasions that Iraq was planning "terrorist attacks" on its soil.

"After the events of 11 September 2001, and before the start of the military operation in Iraq, Russian special services several times received such information and passed it on to their American colleagues," he told reporters.

He said the information received by Russian intelligence suggested Iraq was planning attacks in the United States, "and beyond its borders on American military and civilian targets".

news.bbc.co.uk...

Of course even after all that Putin claimed the United States had no reason for going to war with Saddam's regime....

Originally posted by Quantum_Squirrel
i cant believe you would just sit around thinking oh well the terms over in a years time and just sit there and do nothing ..or maybe u would?

Do what?... Several American members have already said the United States is working the way it should. There is no reason to "do something about it"....

There is no real reason for impeaching President Bush, but by the way things are going and since some will use this as a "political tool" and will distort the truth, as much of it has been already distorted i can see it as a possibility some might plan an impeachement to have a scapegoat and use this as a political tool.

[edit on 17-8-2007 by Muaddib]

Ty for your reply your post is good with lots of back up ..


However in the UK (my location) the reason WE went to war with Iraq was because of Blairs speech on how IRAQ possesed Weapons of mass destruction that could be armed and ready in 45 minutes this was a famous speech blair gave to the people of the UK..

Obviously ithats very black and white and lots of other reason woul dhave been given in the U.N.

but for the average U.K citizen this is how it was sold to them they do not watch what is going on in the U.N. we do not really see many of bush's speeches except the ones where he makes slip up and these normally appear on comedy programs.

and u and i both know the real reason its was for OIL/money plain and simple if you believe anything else or try to justify it any other way .. i just dont agree.

Every country believed he had them BS!!!!! didnt the inspector who said they didnt have any resign shortly before all this kicked off and a new one put in place to find these WMD of course he didnt

AND for the LAST time answer the question...What would it take in YOUR respective country to rise up and attempt to remove those in charge.. and what peacfull or otherwise means would you use ..

This is not a thread about the war in iraq but about the state of the world and what normal people can do to change things

[edit on 17/8/07 by Quantum_Squirrel]

[edit on 17/8/07 by Quantum_Squirrel]

Everyone:

No Big Quotes:

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

Remember to Play Nice - no bickering, name calling, etc.

Mod Note: Terms & Conditions Of Use – Please Review This Link.


Also, Stay On Topic.

Quantum, the whole world believed Iraq had WMD, half of the world, which coincidentally included Russia, China, Germany, France wanted for sanctions to continue, the same sanctions which have killed over 500,000 Iraqi children under the age of 5, and that's not counting the amount of Iraqis who were murdered by Saddam's regime.

Anyways, here is an article on the information the Russian government gave to Iraq.

U.S. Says Russia Gave Iraq Intelligence Before Invasion


March 24, 2006 -- A just-released U.S. Defense Department report says Russia gave Saddam Hussein's government information on American troop movements and targets during the invasion of Iraq in March, 2003.

The report says intelligence was given to the Iraqi foreign minister by Russia's ambassador to Iraq, who in turn sent the information to Hussein in a memo on April 2, 2003.

The report was compiled by the Pentagon Joint Forces Command. It is based on thousands of seized documents and interviews with senior Iraqi military officials.

The April 2 memo to Hussein, who was ousted as president by the invasion, said that the "Americans were moving to cut off Baghdad from the south, east, and north."

www.rferl.org...

Anyways, does it not surprise anyone at all the president Putin is now calling, alongside some others such as the Chinese, for a new "global economy"?... A global economy lead by Russia, China, India and supposedly some other countries... but at the end you know who would be in power in such an economy?.... Russia and China....

Russia calls for new economic world order
ST PETERSBURG, Russia (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin called on Sunday for the creation of a new world economic order that gives greater clout to fast-growing emerging nations.

Days after attending a Group of Eight summit in Germany, Putin suggested that club was outdated and failed to reflect a shift in economic power away from the industrialised West to countries like his own.

news.scotsman.com...

The Russians and the Chinese have been planning this for decades. Russian high ranking military defectors have been telling us about this and their predictions from over 20 years ago are coming true to the letter.

Here is information from the highest Russian officer to have defected to the west who alongside some others have been telling us for years about Russia arming Saddam's regime with WMD and the "sarindar" plan to hide, move or destroy WMD if the west ever got close to them.
www.petrifiedtruth.com...

Here are some of the things that Anatoliy Golitsyn, another Russian military defector who had been telling us for decades the plans that the Krenlim had for the future, just read what this man said was going to happen in the future and then tell me it is just a coincidence.

This information was published by Anatoliy Golitsyn in a book in 1984.

Golitsyn maintains that the goals of the master plan were to provide a more profound political stabilization of individual communist regimes by developing wider mass support, the rectification of economic weakness of the bloc by increased international trade and the acquisition of credits and high technology from the West, the creation of a substructure for an eventual world federation of communist states, political isolation of the US from its allies, developing influence among socialists in Western Europe and Japan, the dissolution of NATO, and an alignment between the Soviet Union and a neutral, preferably socialist, Western Europe; concerted action with nationalist leaders in the Third World to eliminate Western influence as a preliminary to absorbing them in a communist federation, shifting the balance of power in favor of the Communist world, and the ideological disarmament of the West to create favorable conditions for convergence of East and West on communist terms.3

Golitsyn predicts that the Soviet regime will be stabilized by the creation of spurious, controlled opposition movements and the use of those movements to neutralize genuine internal and external opposition, and that it will encourage communist parties to establish united fronts with socialist parties throughout the world thus increasing Soviet influence in parliaments and trade unions.4

Some of the techniques, according to Golitsyn, will be dissension within the bloc, unity of action behind disunity of words, a show of weakness before meeting with Western leaders or before major initiatives or negotiations, and the heavy use of disinformation.5 This disinformation will emanate from official Communist sources, unofficial Communist sources, and "secret" communist sources, much of it retrospective. It is to be delivered through Western newspapermen, scholars, officials, and the Soviet intelligentsia.

www.umd.umich.edu...

And the following is the final stage of this plan.

The final phase of the master plan, according to Golitsyn, is a disinformation and deception campaign of such magnitude that it would be "beyond the imagination of Marx, or the practical reach of Lenin, and unthinkable to Stalin. Among such previously unthinkable stratagems are the introduction of false liberalization in Eastern Europe and, probably, the Soviet Union, and the exhibition of spurious independence on the part of the regimes in Romania, Czechoslovakia, and Poland."7

Golitsyn predicted the "breakup" of the communist bloc in Eastern Europe as a technique to be used by the Soviet government to entice Europe to move more towards socialism and to align itself eventually with the USSR against the United States.8 The Third World would then join communist Russia and socialist Western Europe against the US and its allies. Then there would be a joint drive by the Soviet bloc and a socialist Europe to push the US out of Europe and into nuclear disarmament. A powerful world federation of communist states would emerge and the US would be induced to "converge" on communist terms.9

www.umd.umich.edu...

Originally posted by Quantum_Squirrel
.........................
AND for the LAST time answer the question...What would it take in YOUR respective country to rise up and attempt to remove those in charge.. and what peacfull or otherwise means would you use ..

This is not a thread about the war in iraq but about the state of the world and what normal people can do to change things

Why would we want to "rise up and remove those in charge"?....

BTW, i am an American citizen living in the United States.

BTW, if you don't want to be shown that your statements about the war in Iraq, and the reasons for going are wrong, then you shouldn't have made any statements about it without informing yourself first.


[edit on 17-8-2007 by Muaddib]

Anyways, in all countries there are people who disagree with the politics and policies of their countries.

The United States is no exception. There will always be people who disagree with whatever administration is in office, that certainly is no reason for "rising up and ousting those who are in power".

I had a whole post typed out. and i accidentally pasted over it. lol. that really ticks me off. They need an undo button like microsoft word.

to answer the original posters questions:

what do you think it would take for people to get fed up and stand up?

Im not sure. The constitution is rotting in a sea of decay as we speak. And no one seems to give a damn. Our liberties and freedoms are being taken from us in a slow and methodical process that is based on nothing but corruption, greed and deceit. Like i have said many of times. People dont care as long as it dont directly affect them. So i guess when it directly affects them, they will take action. What that action would be, i could only guess. And to be honest, i dont like to think of that situation.


What would you do to stop it?

From what i understand there are about 45,000,000 gun owners who own roughly 200,000,000 guns. you couple that with millions of ex military and the knowledge to make bombs capable of blowing up tank and military ground vehicles. You are going to have a guerrilla war that will make vietnam look like just another day in the city of los angelas. it will be the war of wars. It will go down as the most defining moment in world history. Lets hope it dont come to that. I will never be forced into a concentration camp! Period.

Posted by America Jones:

But I am totally convinced that there is a conspiracy within the Catholic Church to cover up the true guidance of Jesus's message.

America Jones, i would like to hear more about this. If you dont mind. Also, could you give me a break down of the symbol pic in your post. Im not to familar with the symbolism of these types of pics.

I am also convinced that religion most likely plays the biggest part of the wars and conflict in this world today. It almost seems like it is one big holy war. And it seems like it is setting up to be christianity vs. Islam. I would like to hear your thoughts on this.

America Jones / arnold skinny

Guys, slightly off thread don't ya's think.

I think your points are valid and worth debating but there are plenty of nwo and islam v christian threads here on ATS without hi-jacking this one.

I should know, i've posted on them enough

I think the OP only wanted to know at what point would you stand up for your country and what form would this action take, if any.

Me, I already am in whatever way I can, my country is approaching the point of no return.
Waht form of action, anything not involving violence or hurting my fellow citizens. However, I would not rule out taking Positive Action in the future, including taking up arms if necessary.

reply to post by arnold skinny




[ im]http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g129/lulabellpetunia/693079597_l.gif[/im]

reply to post by martianvirus


America wouldn't exist if it weren't for ENGLISH colonies settling over there..........facts my friend will win wars

Plus america fought mainly in the pacific, not europe where the real and majority of fighting took place. Who had the biggest ever empire in the world? England!

But back to the topic at hand, its not bush and america that is under the spotlight here,
Gordon Brown and the U.K are the U.S' closest allies and lets not forget the week gordon brown took power........."terrorist attacks"! Which i believe were just reasurance that we are in need of keeping our troops in the middle-east! Martial law is threatening us now all over the world, and it needs to be stopped. but the question is whether we can prevent it or whether it happens and then we do something. But that leads to another question - what can we do? i know my path is to use the power of my mind and body to stop any facist, ignorant and evil person in my way to eventually trying to gain some sort of power in this country. Take a look at recent events.
9/11
New Orleans
7/7
Sadams capture and excecution
More frequent UFO sightings

they could all probably be linked some way and i bet its got everything to do with the N.W.O! We need to press for questions, not just here, but actually take this fight to the governments and pressure them.

On the point of england wouldn't exist without america in WWII

we fought for ages without you most of the male population of England was wiped out in this war , you americans only joined when japan bombed pearl harbor.

Winston churchil had to go to america and make a speech begging for american support, he begged for battleships, and u gave us 2 battleships but YOU charged us for them!!!

We have repayed that debt over the past 60 years and only recently finished paying for the 'help', so all you yanks with holier than thou attitudes about how u saved us need to stop and take stock of history and see what really happened.

Infact while we are on the subject of empire building lets address one simple point............ All of you 'current' americans are descendants of europeans, we colonized america and then you usurped us and won your independance....


After that you then set about killing every native american indian there was, and now they are forced to live on natural reserves. even though they are the original inhabitants of your country.

So HORUS8 before you start casting the first stone u should look inwards towards your own people and see how they acted at this time..

The only reason i have attained to these points is Horus8's attitude towards American/english freindship and his refrences to the British empire.. at least we left infrastructure in the places we took over ... like nothern ireland today india had a massive bloody war after we left, between those that wanted the progress and those that wanted it to return to the old ways.

That is all....

i beleive you are supporting a murderer of about 120 men women and children think back to about april 19th 1993 i beleive this place was called mount carmel and i beleive that this was the worst mass murder that the US never recorded perpetrated by your beloved 42nd president husband to your next president notice i say your meaning not mine because as soon as she becomes president im moving to canada oh one more thing this guy above me is right on the money franklin roosevelt was a coward spellcheck on his name

[edit on 18-8-2007 by Emperor_Zod]

I agree that even the most uninformed post can potentially lead to some-what intelligent discussion...but honestly...

I don't pretend to understand UK politics enough to post about them, expecially in a broad generic sense. I'd venture to say the the US system is as complicated as they come. So, we get posts like this from overseas.

I AGREE with posts that criticize the current administration...and Clinton does look good in light of the leaders we have now...

BUT Clinton was no godsend by any means and there were far more LEGITIMATE reasons, other than his trist, to invoke impeachment hearings as there are for Bush now.

I guess my beef is that non-US posters who have every right to post regarding US matters and are often well-versed in the topics, still have the same downfall that many US citizens do...That being they buy into the "grass is greener on the left" propaganda.

Clinton was just as OWNED by the corporations and involved in shady business deals, deaths, etc. Bush is far worse. But that doesn't make Clinton a great man.

IT'd be like buying into the current Gore is Great nonsense. He throws together a shameless world concert for the environment and narrates a movie someone else made and suddenly he's the second coming.

Let's not forget that he did nothing big when he had the power of Vice President. He and Clinton could have done something regarding vehicle emissions but their pockets were lined with car company cash. And many of those bands at his concert have Gore's very wife Tipper to thank for plastering their albums' cover art with WARNING labels due to LANGUAGE content.

EDIT for SPELLING

[edit on 18-8-2007 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]