When will you stand up for your country?

Originally posted by martianvirus
I hate it when people in England give the 'we are better then Americans' speech. It's so lame. England wouldn't even exist if America didn't save them in WWII.

my relatives fighting from day one of both world wars are the reason i am typing this in english sunshine-your ignorance doesnt surprise me as the net is like a magnet to people like you who say these things under the security blanket of no identity but in the real world wouldnt dare say that to an english man!

Originally posted by noangels2006

Originally posted by martianvirus
I hate it when people in England give the 'we are better then Americans' speech. It's so lame. England wouldn't even exist if America didn't save them in WWII.

my relatives fighting from day one of both world wars are the reason i am typing this in english sunshine-your ignorance doesnt surprise me as the net is like a magnet to people like you who say these things under the security blanket of no identity but in the real world wouldnt dare say that to an english man!

There is actually truth to what he said but it goes both ways. If England would've surrendered the war wouldnt necessarily have been lost but it really would've lasted a lot longer. Germany would've had land that would not have been easily accessible by the Russians and with the western front all but gone the rest of the allies would have had bigger problems.
At the same time, without the US sending wave after wave of liberty ships, which kept England supplied, they wouldve starved long before an offensive couldve even been planned. The Germans just couldnt keep up with our massive industry, we were building liberty ships faster than their U-boats could sink em.
Remember this to, after we got into the war, before and after we sent troops to Europe, we were waging a major war against the Japanese in the Pacific.
England doesnt owe us a thing and we dont owe them anything, thats what allies and true friends do.
England has supported us in pretty much every thing we have done, regardless of how stupid.
I think in the "grand scheme of things" we are now even

I am from Romania. I believe the rulers of USA make a better use of the "divide and conquer" method because of the way the USA is organized in states and I presume people care more about the local events than the overall picture.

Here in my country - yes it's much smaller than USA, everybody looks at the government and there is no intermediary between the people and the government , we have a feeling that we can very easy stop any foolish actions by our leaders, and they better do not try any. After 40 years of dictatorship people are very suspicious of any attempts against personal freedom
I am a little paranoid about everything now and I suspect even our president of allegiance to NWO, and of course the masons that are everywhere.

I also believe that the pyramid on your money is a symbol for just that : "divide and conquer", people connected to someone above and with no link between each other. Look at Hitler he used a pyramidal structure, it works best, people bellow him were easily ruled by fear and greed

Originally posted by Quantum_Squirrel
So the question is when is enough , enough ? when will YOU stand up and do something..

after the first nuke?
after the invasion of iran?
after martial law is declared in the states..

when will you stand up? and if/when you do what method of standing up is your preffered choice?
[edit on 15/8/07 by Quantum_Squirrel]

It will be enough when We feel as though We've been threatened substantially enough that it merits action. When the People feel as though they're being too put on to live happily here anymore, they will rise up to free themselves from the shackles that bind them.

The only way to start is to try and fix things locally, and start a wildfire-style debate on the issues that you feel adamant about. However, when Our rights begin to get trodden on by those we elect, we'll need to resort to other means to make sure that Our sovereignty remains in tact.

The real question is when will everyone realize that we're already in this position?

TheBorg

Originally posted by TheBorg

It will be enough when We feel as though We've been threatened substantially enough that it merits action. When the People feel as though they're being too put on to live happily here anymore, they will rise up to free themselves from the shackles that bind them.

The only way to start is to try and fix things locally, and start a wildfire-style debate on the issues that you feel adamant about. However, when Our rights begin to get trodden on by those we elect, we'll need to resort to other means to make sure that Our sovereignty remains in tact.

The real question is when will everyone realize that we're already in this position?

TheBorg

I agree to some degree TheBorg, imho america is there or there abouts it seems the administration is walking a very fine line , but they dont seem to care i just hope that they really aint gonna try something real big in the dieing throws of this last term and people will sit back thinking oh well its over soon, lets just sit it out.

Let us hope that resistance isn't futile.....

Don't worry. It's not. Given the time, things will even out as they always do. We've come a long way since we left England 230 years ago. We're the largest Superpower this planet has ever known. How can we not continue? We're much better off than some, and a hell of a lot worse than others. It's just a fact of life that things are never where they should be. We should always be looking forward, and never looking to hold people back.

Those that are holding us back are doing so because they think that if we get too intelligent that they will be left behind, when they don't know the true potential of humans. Also, they wouldn't have control over us anymore. They seem to like controlling people. We must be something like pawns to them. We'll do it whether they want us to or not. It'll just take more time.

And here's the ironic part. They wouldn't have been left behind if they had've embraced advancements when they were first seen, rather than waiting for us to make them on our own. It's their loss, not mine. If I choose to not eat, then it's my loss when I realize that there's no dinner left and I get hungry, right? The same thing applies here, only this time, they kept us from having dinner. The thing is, we just went out and got our own.

TheBorg

[Edited for additional content.]

[edit on 16-8-2007 by TheBorg]

I don't know what it would take for a revolution, if that's what you're implying. When I talk to most people nowadays I kind of see a lost cause in that kind of thing. Everybody just seems so passive and inconsiderate, for example, i've talked to a lot of people about why we shouldn't have national ID here in the UK and all they respond with is "i don't care, if it stops terrorism then i'll do it", etc etc, without even listening to what i'm saying.

Then we see things like 9/11 and 7/7 bombings where even though there is a lot of interesting information to suggest that they were inside jobs/cover ups, no one wants to know about it! People just say "oh well it's happened now, there's nothing you can do about it". It's the same with issues like Iraq, etc

Going on those majority attitudes I don't think that many people would be prepared to change their lifestyle to open their eyes up to what the governments are really up to.

Because it's easier to be ignorant.

Originally posted by pai mei
I am from Romania. I believe the rulers of USA make a better use of the "divide and conquer" method because of the way the USA is organized in states and I presume people care more about the local events than the overall picture.

That's a pretty good point, worth thinking about. Then you also have media reporting on the celebs and stuff in USA which keeps people's focus more at home.

I've been reading this thread with a lot of interest and I must say that both the question and some of the answers are of high quality.

Now I'm not from the US so I can not say what I will/won't do. But I do have an idea as to why people won't act. A lot of people simply believe that their government will do what is right and that such a thing as martial law isn't going to happen.

Recently I´ve been talking with my mom and her friends about this. My mom and her friends have been brought up with the idea that people who studied know it better. That makes politicians, doctors and judges kind of `holy`in their eyes. Now they can´t help this. It´s the way they learned to think and although they can change it a little bit at a certain age it gets hard to change the way you think.

Since a big part of the modern day society is brought up this way they are blind followers, not because they are bad, simply because they don´t know any better. The only way to change it a bit (and I guess that´s a challenge for us ATS`ers) is to convince the people that not all intentions of politicians and other high function people are pure.

Juliet

Originally posted by malganis
I don't know what it would take for a revolution, if that's what you're implying.

To "rise up" has many connotations to many different people. Does it mean an armed revolution? Perhaps. Does it mean something as simple as walking over to the nearest voting booth and voting for "none of the above"? Perhaps.

What it all boils down to is this: Change is coming. There's no way to avoid it. We've been stagnant too long, and people are growing restless. The best way to stop this is for those in power, whom I'm sure are reading this right now, to listen to us for once, and do something that's truly in our interests, like FIXING the border!!!

If they did that, then they could stop talking out of both sides of their face like some sort of terrible ventriloquist, and start getting the things done that we need. Their focus is always on what's going to keep them in office, when it should be on us, since we're the ones that vote for them. Or we're supposed to anyway. I don't know what will happen when everyone realizes that the major elections are bought by big business. That will be a very interesting time to be alive.

But, for the record, I'm not saying that an armed revolt is what should be done at the moment. It is ALWAYS an option, according to our Founders. They said it, I did not. I only listened to what they said, and have learned to watch for the warning signs that they said would come when the time was growing near for a change. That time is coming fast, and the symptoms are getting more numerous.

As the old saying goes, "Freedom is never free." To be free sometimes requires the spilling of blood, both metaphorically as well as literally, to ensure that future generations can continue living without fear that someone will come along and usurp control of them and what they do. At this moment, neither of those are a viable option, imho. What IS an option, however, is to get involved in local, state, and national politics. Want to make a difference? Work for it and you can achieve anything that you set out to do. But there will be sacrifices to be made along the way.

Let's just hope that this can be stopped before blood has to be spilled.

TheBorg

[Edited for clarity.]

[edit on 16-8-2007 by TheBorg]

When I saw the thread title in the hot topics section of ATS, I thought this to be a generic question.
Actually I was a tad disappointed when I realised this was quite America-centric.

I think this question transcends any one particular nation. I think we can steer this topic in a direction such that the question can be looked upon from different point of view for every country represented here at ATS.

The question I believe is much more fundamental(and important) than it has been made out to be on this thread so far.

Originally posted by Daedalus3
The question I believe is much more fundamental(and important) than it has been made out to be on this thread so far.

Agreed. I'm of the personal opinion that the Powers that Be, whomever they may be, are not central to one nation-state anymore. I think they are a product of our complacency and lack of care for anything relating to our safety. They've taken the liberty of taking all of our liberties from us steadily over the course of a couple centuries, and only now are we beginning to realize just how much we've lost.

And no, this isn't just an American thing. This is a WORLD matter. ALL people should be involved in seeking the truth about what's going on, and who may be involved.

It should also be noted that just because one group may be labeled as a candidate, doesn't necessarily mean that they are complicit in any ill acts. For example, lets say that Group A was said to be accused of being a cabal-like regime, hell-bent on a feudal state ruled by them. Of these members, only 15 are knowledgeable of what's going on. The rest are completely oblivious to it. I think this can be attributed to every single group that exists today, whether they be secret societies or government organizations.

To add another example, I'll use the old TV series Alias. SD-6 was the organization which Sydney (Jennifer Garner's Character) worked for. Little did she know that they were really a terrorist cell working inside of the CIA, unbeknownst to the rest of the people that were employed there. The rest of her fellow peers weren't "in on" the secret operations, because they also thought they were working for a secret branch of the CIA.

All that I"m suggesting by this is that not everyone in every organization is in it for the same reasons. Everyone has their own reasons for doing things. Let's not be too hasty to judge others for something that we have no proof for.

Thank you or listening,

TheBorg

To the people in a heated debate with eachother about the thread starter's heritage, get over it. He makes a good point, and his point/question remains a valid one no matter where he comes from. I'm dutch and i'm more concerned with outside politics, far more than the politics of this small insignificant country. These outside politics are more important and when you think about it, have more chance to change the course of my life. Brittish or not, as 'unplugged' americans you still have to concider that very important question, how far are you willing to let it go? Until the point when threads like these get labeled as terrorist-gathering places?

This can deifnatley be extended to all countries i was just going with what is currently topical on ATS as to create intrest in the thread. however as we all know many many other countries are involved to lesser or varying degrees..

So as citizens of the world i encourage you all to post..

Pls keep it short.

State your Location.

Your current like or dislike about your present governmental system.

It would be nice to keep this based on the original thread so i would love all your opinions on the U.S.A and its foreign policies to participate constructively u must have an opinion on the original question about the U.S.A


Tell me what it would take in your country to make you rise up , and when you did how would you do this.

I will attempt to collate the information and build up a database of opinions to be posted at the end of the thread when it dies

I guess after all that .. i will go first....

1. Nottingham, England.

2. a) likes.. Our government seems to be good at protecting it citizens from the 'percieved terrorist threats lately we are always catching them before or at least in the act.
b) Voter turnout is extremely low in the U.K, if more people spoke up , i think they wouldnt get away with half the things they do.

3. I think the people of the U.S.A should do something peacfull right NOW!!! enough chances Bush, something less peacfull if elections are effected at the end of his term.

4. a) The invasion of Iran and being a part of that, i dont think the U.K citizens currently can take another war anywhere especially under false pretences.
b) I.D cards in the U.k with every bit of information about a person on it, we already have the highest camera count in london per person..(carefull people say it will end up like orwells 1984..OMG open your eyes people it already is!!!)

5. Peacfull everytime but if it threatens my kids i will not only give my life, i will take it as well.

I look forward to hearing from you all .. pls if you already posted try to break it into this format and i will take all results from this point onwards.

ty for reading..



[edit on 16/8/07 by Quantum_Squirrel]

This question is impossible to answer. It could be many defining things that make the American people rise up and do something. Although i can't see that ever happening, We have comfortable lives compared to other people of this world, it would have to be something very extreme for such a event to happen.
And the problems the Americans face, We British also face, Our governments and financial establishments are joined at the hip, and work in tandem. Anything you see happening in the USA will also have a knock on effect in Britain. And this stupid argument about WW2 is a insult to the soldiers who died on both sides.

I live in Canada, and if my country was attacked, I would defend it in a heartbeat. However, I am very grateful for the people who currently are in Afghanistan, however, in my eyes, I haven't felt threatened by the Taliban and Al-Qaeda, so why should I go and fight? for reconstruction? for watch some opium crops that IS making its way to Canadian cities?

Originally posted by Quantum_Squirrel
i posted this in another thread i liked it so much i want to start one...

you know it makes me laugh , you guys can get rid of one of the most intelligent presidents you have had in recent times for getting a certain [Profanity Removed] 'lady services under a table.' (apologies mod)*

Squirrel, for one, here in the states our presidents can only serve two 4 year terms. Clinton was elected for two terms, so to say we got rid of him is just one way of how you show you don’t know what you’re talking about. And how do you figure Clinton was one of the most intelligent Presidents we have ever had. I mean the guy couldn’t even get shagged with out the story coming out. Clinton was a womanizer and a lobbyist hooker!!

yet you cant get rid of bush and his cronies for a never ending and growing list of terrible decisions at best and calculated evil at worst.

We will be rid of him come Nov 08

So the question is when is enough , enough ? when will YOU stand up and do something..

after the first nuke?
after the invasion of iran?
after martial law is declared in the states..

Yes it will prob take a major, major incident to get us dumb Americans off the couch..

when will you stand up? and if/when you do what method of standing up is your preffered choice?

I prefer to just throw tea in the Boston harbor, it worked once right? Should do it again huh?

I like how you brits have all the answers, that’s what makes me laugh OP.
We took care of tyranny and oppression once in our history at some point we will do it again mate.

The clinton inaccuracies have been addressed and apologised for on numerous occasions the thread has evolved somehwat differently since then..

i just cant edit the original post or i would amend it straight away but ty for the straight forward answers to the questions!!

Originally posted by Freeborn
Quantum,
Whilst I agree with you that as a citizen of the planet and of the USA's allegedly greatest ally you have every right to ask the question you did.
In turn I would ask you; when are you prepared to stand up for your country because as I see it, and practically everyone else I know, OUR country is rapidly going to the dogs.

We allow politicians, of every persuasion, to actively disregard the will of it's people and kowtow to everyone and anyone else.
We display the moral backbone of an amoeba at present and are allowing the very fibre of British Society to be attacked from all angles.

One of the main things I have taken from ATS is that my stereotyped image of Americans has been disproven I am pleased to say there seems to be enough Americans aware of the current situation that they can put their own house in order, or at least try to.
Can the same be said about OUR country, I very much doubt it, we have become a nation of whingers and moaners who actually do very little in practical terms and it breaks my heart every single day to witness the country I love so much deteriate so much.

Thank you Freeborn I look at you as a trusted ally and thank you for your observations. England is a great ally of the US and I will alwasy back them up in my views and actions as they have done for America. We will stand beside you through thick and thin Sir.

The OP on the other hand doesnt understand politics. And to say we americans should just throw out Bush..... Easier said than done wouldnt you agree.

Originally posted by martianvirus
I'm not going to check back to this thread. Before I leave, I just wanted to remind the creator of this thread that he was the one questioning things America does. I've spent a lot of time on chat services with video and audio. They are full of guys just like this. All they can do is talk about how bad America is. I'm just saying I don't want to hear it. I've been up for two days. Good night.

I suggest putting down the pipe and getting some sleep then becasue you are way off base MV. With out the brits we americans would surly be up the creek with out the perverbial paddle. Really our only friends and we better recognize that casue the storm is coming.

night night

Originally posted by geemony


The OP on the other hand doesnt understand politics. And to say we americans should just throw out Bush..... Easier said than done wouldnt you agree.

If you read ALL the posts here i am sure you wouldnt be posting this .....

And of Course its Easier said than done thats the WHOLE POINT of the thread.

The Question is what would it take!! and how would you do it if nescassery.