And if Ron Paul Loses...

Originally posted by Vekar
When it is the same corporations from the USA that have destroyed their nation... Yes we are responsible. Like I said, if you want to solve the problem, make sure you do not feed the fires of the La Raza, Aztlan and MeChA. Walls will not stop people for long, fixing the reason why they come here will stop people. If you are so blatant as to try and keep forcing people out and NEVER solve the root of the problem your only digging your own grave. We are all stuck because of the elites actions, it is time we acknowledged that and worked as ONE PEOPLE not a bunch of squabling two year olds. We have a common enemy and a common goal in life, have you ever realized that?

What?

Originally posted by Vekar
How do you kill a weed johnmike? While you mull that over I will give the responce:

You mean a response.

Originally posted by Vekar
How to kill a weed:
Do not chop off the top of the plant, for it will grow back. If you wish to kill the weed, dig out the roots, expose them to the sun and dry them out. Only then will the weed die, because it can no longer draw upon what it needs to live.

Thanks, I was wondering why my yard was so ugly.

Originally posted by Vekar
Trying to build walls, machine gun nests, placing armies all over the place is not going to help at all in the end, going after the root of the problem WILL. So how about we all work together for once in the past 3000+ years? 3000 years of war, and if you want to keep this petty strife going, be my guest, I shall have no part in it. I will be the one stoping you at every turn. You can be scared of helping others out of holes all you want, which you call "spoon feading" however I am one for helping people in need. I am willing to help the Mexicans so they will not have to risk death by dehydration to get to the USA.

What are you talking about?

Also, I have trouble taking you seriously when you can't spell "feeding".

Is it me or is this thread going way off basis?

JM: I do not care at all for your disrespect, so just shut it if your not going to stick to the topic and try and start fights AGAIN. Also consider yourself squelched since you never even try to understand let alone contribute to anything, all you do is try and nitpick. I type as fast as I can since my brain moves faster than my fingers so I would suspect there to be errors here and there. At least I am honest though. If you are content with trying to divert this thread off subject do it somewhere else on your OWN thread. Also your vendetta against me (you act like you have one) is for nothing. Goodbye.

Everyone else:
I have a more serious question to ask now: the implications that RP wins the elections, and then nothing happens. To put it another way: RP wins and the elites just back off and seemingly GIVE UP everything they have worked for. Considering how much power they have I think this is something we need to think about. What would this entail? What would they be planning? Or could it be they got what they wanted: a posterboy. What if RP turns out to be the NWO posterboy in disguise? They have been working at this before Vietnam started. So why would they NOT have built up someone over the years and kept them on a backburner till the "moment of truth?"

Beware of the wolf in sheeps clothing.

So what would YOU do if RP turned out to be the enemy in disguise in the end after it was too late? Would you rebel or sit down in total shock and dismay?

As a dark master of American politics, I think that we are not in any danger of being betrayed by Ron Paul. If, by some unexpected turn of events that he were to win the primaries, we'd all be surprised. Nobody wouldbe more surprised than me.

Could this happened? Sure. If you went back in time with a few hundred million dollars and the know-how to set up the right conspiracy. It's too late to hatch that kind of plan. I say this with some street cred because I have written about what it could take to "make" a president. It's not as hard as you would think, but it would take money, time, and a carefully groomed network.

NWO leaders won't waste their time by a shocker betrayal like R.P. They'll go for the compliant or the complicit. Compliant would be anyone who wants to be President so bad they will pay any price. Complicit would be anyone who wants to be President...and...who wants a piece of the action. If you want something to tease your brain with, try this. Who would be more complicit? Giuliani or Clinton?

I know what my answer would be. What about yours?

Well Clinton is already in on the action if you consider her families past ties, Guliani I am not sure about so I would thus far say he is the complicit one.

Right now we do not need a president AT ALL. Thats right, the last thing this nation, this world needs is another president. What DOES it need?

A LEADER

Still you never know, they could just let RP run for office as a way to keep people docile and make them think they have a choice. Remember, they control the ballots so a few "mishaps" here and there or a few "close ties" here and there (states that is) and voila, you have a vote that turned out like this:
(I am throwing names up)
Clinton-40%
Guliani-30%
RP-30%
Close vote no? So close! Just 10% more! And look! The GOP LOST! BY FAR! NOT! It was a ruse. This kind of vote would keep people docile if they do not stop to think about it for a minute and they will try again the year after... After it is already far too late.

So in the end we may face them trying to split the voting up as much as is earthly possible to make it near impossible to track the vote then slam us with their final stages of the take-over.

So who knows, as stated we will find out in 08 for certain what their plans are. The hard way. Will you be ready?

JO: Yeah I know about the "dark conspi..." you say that about every time, no need to reiterate what I already know, or what WE already know.

"Vekar
Close vote no? So close! Just 10% more! And look! The GOP LOST! BY FAR! NOT! It was a ruse. This kind of vote would keep people docile if they do not stop to think about it for a minute and they will try again the year after... After it is already far too late."


Wow! that is it exactly! Its too late and I really hope they dont try that, but I know it's going to happen. My 'family dinner' tonight was all me (trying to talk over my sister about some stupid co-worker) Talking about Ron Paul and who the next candidate is to support yet, they've given up. Rather they're too lazy and complient to care. My Aunt from D.C. had no idea who he is, and she's fairly political.

NWR I am EXTREMELY political and I had NEVER heard of him untill just this year, actually not 6 months ago actually. Remember that some people are going to burry themselves in self pitty or try and burry their head in the sand when you bring up reality. I have met my share of people like that. All you can do is slap them in the face with reality, use pictures and cold hard facts that are known and bash them a good one. After that it is up to them, I grant you 99.99% are going to shove it out of their mind quickly. I have seen that happen as I show people the facts, in one ear out the other as I am proving my point.

As Thomas Jefferson said, there will be an immense number who will hiss and spit at you as you try and change things, who will turn you in and cower behind their masters. Yet when the dust settles and you stand victorious, they will come flocking to you because they are cowardly rats seeking shelter from the comming storm.
Because of this, do NOT allow them to take shelter, not during nor after. I believe the time of truth is at hand and it is time people to choose their side and stand by it to the end. The time of cowards and rats is over. The last thing this nation needs is to provide shelter for cowards and rats, they will only eat away at society, slowly perverting it and destroying it from the inside out.

What can be said about your family NWR is that two at the table are political, one at least knows some of what is going on. That is a start, now start talking to others outside of the family and at every turn BLOCK your sisters foolish chat with reality. She will become hostile, but you will be forcing her to look at reality.

I say force because we are out of time.

Man, my whole post got erased, my computer sux!
Anyways, I wanted to say thanks for all the great ideas Vekar (and others) ! Im going to print up a bunch of RP policies and views, along with some other documents about the current government 'lies' and keep them in my purse to whip out in time of need!
Also, my friend told me she saw a RP poster in someones front yard. Does anyone know where I can get these? Im on some RP e-mail lists and whatnot but Ive never seen the option to get banners, posters, ect..

[edit on 13-6-2007 by nowayreally]

Actually, that's not YOUR computer. When the ATS server is just a teeny litle too busy, it will throw your post and you'll get an error that causes you to lose what you typed.

There's an old school internet warrior's trick that can save you some pain. Highlight and copy your text before hitting the submit button. That way, if it bobbles, you just do the old paste maneuver and you're "in."

JO: heh, yeah I do that, learned that (before I was on ATS) the hard way, about 30 crashes later...

NWR: The best thing to do is to make sure you always have info on you or mentally stamped in. When I see other people and I tell them this I give them my secondary e-mail that is settup for that specific purpose and forward the information to them later. So I can do very vivid descriptions of things and memory recite some things, or I can do visuals if I have the info on me. Still make sure you always have something solid on you mentally or physically as well as places for others to go to get more. That is step one, step two is getting them to believe you, step three is getting them to do something about it. Needless to say each step is not easy pending on the person.

Originally posted by Vekar
If your going to throw immigration into things I need to give a warning:
Do not treat Mexicans like criminals, though millions come here illegaly the last thing anyone needs to do is treat them with hate, malice, anger, racism, or simply put: all around HATE.

I don't need to actually hate anybody to be able to justify treating illegal immigrants like criminals...Why? Because by coming here illegally they automatically (by their own will & choice) become criminals! I don't actually hate them for it, but they are still criminals, after all. Of course, that doesn't have to mean that I fall for all of the hate-speech that such groups like to spout...I can't say that I actually hate anybody (but I do hate things that people do).

Originally posted by biggie smalls
So when Europeans come in and take over a whole continent its not "illegal," but when natives of this continent decide to move for a better life this is illegal?
We didn't even exist till a little over 200 years ago remember.
Who lived here beforehand?

In case you haven't noticed, the American Indians are still get heir revenge upon the White Demons for that...They were the ones who introduced the Europeans to tobacco, after all...

Originally posted by dahl
ron paul sounds like hes moving in the exact opposit direction of the new world order. but aint that allso a bad thing it sounds like he doesnt want the human race united dont get get me wrong i know nWo is a bad thing but one world sounds great.

IMO, a one-world society would be great...When we're ready for it. The problem with the so-called NWO is that they're trying to force everyone into their own vision of it before we can mature (as a society) far enough to solve more immediate problems...Like the over-harvesting of natural resources, the polluting of remaining resources & dangerous levels of over-population.

Originally posted by Vekar
Maybe if you looked at the state of the Mexican economy vs our own you would realize why they are so eager to run the boarder.
If you want to solve the problem solve the economy.

Right...They don't want to solve the economic problems of their own country, so they move illegally into another country to make our own economy worse. You sound like you've got the problem solved...By letting it spread.

It's the American Citizen's job to keep America stable...It's the Mexican Citizen's job to keep Mexico stable; They've failed & we're having trouble. So you want them to abandon their civic duties to their own country & run roughshod over our country, compounding the problems we have already?

Why don't they move into America legally? America already legally immigrates more people every year than all other countries combined! If they really want to become Americans (instead of parasites), they should use Immigration Services to become Citizens, just like all of those Eurpopean refugees of WW II did.

Bush's "solution" to push for a blanket-amnesty is not the answer...But, as the Chief Executive of the Exectutive Branch, his duty is to faithfully execute the laws. In this particular case, the solution is fairly simple; Find the illegals & give them the choice to partake of legal immigration or deport them. If this is also Ron Paul's view, then he would be speaking fully within Constitutional duty as applied with humane behavior.

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
Complicit would be anyone who wants to be President...and...who wants a piece of the action.

This is the main reason why I feel that anyone who really wants to be President should be automatically disqualified for reasons of insanity...Anyone who wants the Presidency that bad must be insane to begin with...Or so corrupt that they shouldn't get the job anyway.
Besides, have you seen the before & after kind of photos of men who've been President? Before their term actually begins, they may look ok; But after a mere 4-year term, they appear to physically age at least 10 years! Anyone who actually wants a job that does that to them must be crazy...

Originally posted by Vekar
Right now we do not need a president AT ALL. Thats right, the last thing this nation, this world needs is another president. What DOES it need?

A LEADER

Acutually, no...If anyone in the government is to adhere to the required Constitutional Oath that allows them to be in their Offices, we need Civil Servants! That's what you seem to be missing...The realization that the government is Constitutionally required to serve the People, not lead them. The Constitution not only delegates which Branches & Offices are granted with which Powers, but even more, the Constitution places strict limitations on those Powers!

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
There's an old school internet warrior's trick that can save you some pain. Highlight and copy your text before hitting the submit button. That way, if it bobbles, you just do the old paste maneuver and you're "in."

I also use WordPad when I'm trying to reply with a lot of quotes...Any 'ol word processor will do, but WordPad just happens to be simple & convenient for me (even though I've got better WP's, like WordPerfect). Copy/paste from Webpage into WP, then type my responses there. If I lose my post in the website, I just repaste the whole shmear back in.

I shall stand by all that I have said no matter WHAT. We DO need a LEADER not a president, why? Leaders unite people, they organise people, they protect them, help them, and push the people forward for the good of the whole not the one. Your idea of a "civil servant" will not help a whole lot, or at all. A leader is someone who embodies many things, that is what is needed, not just "servants."

As for Mexicos economy, BS, they couldnt fix it if they wanted too. NAFTA made sure of that by allowing US corporations to run rampant in Mexico and wiped out their economy. Fast Food Nation (book) covered some of this and what happened to Mexicos economy the DAY NAFTA was signed into effect. It wiped them out. Thus they come here because why stick around? The ones who are destroying their nation are living here in the USA and have no inkling of backing down on NAFTA. If you look at Mexico and if you happen to be someone who watches FSTV you would notice that the Mexicans HAVE been trying to change things, but like us they are stuck because of extreme corruption in the government. It stonewalls us at every turn, and them too.

Maybe you need to read back over some of my previous posts, because like I said:
When you drive people into desperation, they take desperate measures.
The Mexicans are desperate, broken, poor/homeless, used and abused. Thus they flee, this is nothing more than a wierd form of refugee influx because of failing economies. If you are unwilling to admit your own hands in their economies downfall (NAFTA, Etc.) then you are not going to help but just dig the hole deeper so the NWO and elites can strike while your back is turned.

You talk about maturing of society, maybe you need to start right now, this is your grand opportunity to prove you are concerned about others. You cannot and WILL NOT have a unified planet by constantly blaming others and turning your back on others woes. Doing that (which you are doing) is how we got here to start with. Why not look them square in the eye and offer some solutions? I have, you havent. If we are going to unite lets start here, today, not tomorrow, if you say tomorrow then you will put it off when tomorrow comes and the day after and the day after that. If we are going to mature we need to start working TOGETHER for a COMMON GOAL, SCREW the boundaries. Boundaries are what have kept us at each others throughts for a LONG time, 3000 years of war. Over what? Boundaries. Drawing and redrawing of boundaries have gotten million upon MILLIONS killed over the past 3000 years. This is not going to stop untill you realize this. When you have then maybe you will be showing social maturity, the next part is to recognize your common man/woman despite petty differences of nationality and start working as one. Now you have passed thresholde 2, now for 3: uniting. Unite into one body, one people, and work to keep each other alfoat instead of backing off and letting the other sink when the boat springs a leak.

So long as you abandon others, ignore their plight/woes and problems you will never solve anything. So long as you refuse to help them solve their problems you will only allow the problem to fester and grow into a boil that is infectiouse and thus help bring down your own nation. We of North America are long overdue for working together, so instead of saying it is someone elses problem how about this:
"It is not your problem alone, but OUR problem."

If you ever want to see that unity you talked about I suggest you say WE, OUR, not THEIR or THEM. Their or them is shoving the problem to someone else instead of helping.

I am going to help them as best I can, will you?

One last thing MDS: What ever made you think they WOULD follow their oaths? Look at their actions and the corruption that is spreading like a wildfire. Why would they even WANT to follow their oaths when they can get away with it?
Like someone said on a political commentary I saw:
"Its like a giant crap game, they have their game going, every once in a while one will shoot the other, but if ANYONE DARES to threaten their crap game they all band together and kill em."

They know what they are doing, and they do not care about what the concequences are. Remember, as I have said and others this has been going on since before Vietnam and they have gotten away with it 100% of the time. Whoever you see prosecuted are pawns, scapegoats, not the bigfish, only the little fishes.

This battle to centralize power has been under way since the ink dried on the Constitution. The Federalists knew, even then, that they would be fighting for control of the nation. It's quite possible that Ben Franlkin suspeced that they would win when he said, "we've given you a Republic...if you can keep it."

True enough, however I hope things move towards a Federation (we already have a version of it, the state system in short but I am talking on a global scale) that is for the people by the people. However the NWO does NOT want that, they want an empire, not a federation.

Who ever thought that we of all people would get to be the ones to take part in this? The be all end all of the NWO's lust for a world empire for them to solely rule over. And as stated, we are living it in, and WE must stop it or let it happen. Fun, fun, fun.


I still wonder, in the end who will stand victorious? Remember we have a 50/50 shot at this, and no such thing as a second chance or "reset" button, if we lose we lose it ALL. Not just one nation, but the world, thus I keep putting this quote up because someone else realized this back in the early 70's-80's I do believe:
"I envy you people of North America, for you shall fight the most important fight of all, you live in the belly of the beast."
-Che Gueverra-

The whole world is looking at us for what we will do or not do, let us not disapoint them and if it comes to revolution... Lets give the world a lightshow of such proportions they shall never forget. If were going down lets take them with us, it is the least we can do for the world. We must regain our honor which has been stripped and made a laughing stock of. As time ticks along into 2008 our chance will show itself for the last time.

For those who think the NWO can be "voted" out of office: wrong, they are a weed with roots all over the world but is centered here. The only way to stop them is to follow the following two words: Total Annihilation.

We couldn't come anywhere near close to a one world government now. I don't think it will ever be possible, and even coming close to it is unhealthy at this point. People are way too different to do so, especially in terms of politics (people I know in Europe can't believe that we have the right to bear arms).

There's no reason for a one world government. We do just fine negotiating as sovereign nations, that way we can each do what's best for our people.

From what I have seen and heard I would seriously consider voting for Ron Paul but he is the only Republican running that I could say that about.

I really do not want to vote for Hillary Clinton. I liked her husband but she and the Democratic Leadership Council represent all that is wrong with the Democratic Party today... mealy mouthed, playing to the middle in such away that turns them into the conservative lite party instead of a viable option.

People want a real choice and Hillary Clinton and the DLC rob people of that...

So.... I would consider voting for Ron Paul, if Al Gore doesn't step up to the plate but I would be much happier doing so if Paul would run as an independent.

Hey Vekar-
I agree with your statements, but the 'total annihilation' comment could be taken out of context - We have to remember that if we sink so low as to use any sort of violence against (as opposed to in defense) 'them' than we are just as bad as they are. Im sure that wasn't your meaning behind that quote, I simply wanted to reitterate that point.
So, the question then becomes, 'How do we non-violently resisit the oppression and the unfair?'
p.s.- thanx for the copy and paste idea JO!

Should they take the final steps your "non-violence" will be the equivalent of being a protester of the Nazi regime in Nazi Germany at the height of Hitlers reign.
Should they roll a tank towards me, should they be willing to take that last step of pointing the guns at us without any hesitation what so ever anymore (they already do this to a degree) then I PROMISE you by blood oath I will NOT stand in front of that tank, I will NOT stand there with a sign while the bullets fly. I will be holding a gun and launching war against them. You can stand in front of a tank all you want, they will simply kill you or arrest you and move on, no big deal. They need slaves for their factories remember?

Non-violence only goes so far, and I do not EVER want to hear you use the "let us not become like them by using violence" EVER again! The British used violence, the the Continental Army was formed and FOUGHT BACK VIOLENTLY! Why? The British would just send you off to prison for life and end of story.
We are approaching the same point, if you do NOT want to become like them then do the following:
#1: Do not rape the public economically, physically or legally.
#2: Protect the public, do not harm it unless you have no choice (last resort, one of those scenarios where you have the choice of saving a city of people at the cost of one life kind of deal)
#3: Use the military for what it is meant to do: protect and serve the people, not the elite/NWO/corporations/personal greed/etc.
#4: Kill when you have no choice left not because you feel like it (use their private wars as an example such as El Salvador and Columbia)
#5: Overall do the opposite of them since they act ONLY for the purpose of power, greed and lust.

Violence has a place in the world, however people have grown a tainted image of it because of the current wars (WW1-Present) and have a taboo about war and violence now. I do not. If I have purpose for war so be it, if not why bother and lose lives?

As someone else said (not on ATS): If someone tries to kill you, you try and kill them right back.

The pen is mightier than the sword, HOWEVER! Always keep a sword handy for when the pen fails.

If you do not have the guts or nerve to face them in real combat and fight their private armies should they take total control (which means your protest is MEANINGLESS for change) and take a stand like millions of others have done across the world including the founding fathers... Then you will only allow them to walk over top of the people that much faster. So long as people only protest after they have total unquestioning control (which we are getting dangerously close too by the way) you will only aid them. They are already proving protesting is meaningless, they have their paramilitary police beating the bejesus out of people. Keeps people away no? So why worry.
Should they seal things off in 2008 by martial law, protesting is OUT THE DOOR for GOOD. You cannot fight an enemy with peace who thinks so little of peace they are willing to ensure there will be more wars by creating foreign policies that do nothing but breed them. You cannot fight an army with peace, Vietnam was just a test, now they are going for the finals.

When I said TOTAL ANNIHILATION I meant exactly that. Every last one of them must either be locked up for life without parole in a small dungeon 2000ft. below ground without any contact with others no matter what... Or shot. If you leave them around and their lackeys they will come back and keep forging forward not tomorrow, but 100 years from now. WW1 was a lesson for them, the private banks lost. They learned, WW2, fear and military did not work... Vietnam, a test of public endurance. What they learned from all this was the following: keep the public docile and slowly get them used to how they operate so they will not rebel. Step two is to put the public in such a place economically they will never be able to fight them.
The final part may confuse you so let me give you some examples: Go buy some gas tomorrow. WOOPS! You just supported them! Ok now go get food... Yup you did it again. Now get cloths, or the bolt cloth... Yup, you guessed it: you supported them. Eating out, getting tired, any item AT ALL is marketed by the elites. They have their hand in everything one way or another so that if you try and stop them they can gut the public on the spot by cutting off supplies. How is this possible then? China. When they moved things to China they gained a whole new level of economic power, no longer is there unions or American workers to riot, they also have a 2000+ mile ocean cutting off the supplies unless they WANT to ship them here. Also, they are working to make China a larger economy so they can just sell it to them (The Chinese are HIGHLY docile and obedient no matter WHAT the price pathetically) should things get sour here. There is a long list of things they can do if you just look carefully at how they have set things up. All they need now is to start it, but we still have one last chance to throw a monkey wretch in their system: 2008. Though it is a long shot we still have a slighy chance: 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance of changing things. Take it, it will be your last unless they come up with a better plan and decide to back off for now which should truely scare the bejesus out most people.

Anyway I could keep going on how non-violence will mean nothing if they pull out the final card however I will hold off for now since I have other things to do.

Im sorry if I upset you Vekar- that is why I stated non-violence unless in a defense position. Of course, when it comes right down to it violence is definitely something that will happen. I just mean that we need to hold out peacefully for now, in order to let the public (that is, those who care) know that violence is not our intention- that we are not like 'them', but will, however resort to that if we must, in defense of our freedom and our undying loyalty to the truth.

NWR: It takes more than a comment to anger the likes of me, you just annoyed me was all. In case you did not notice what I was saying: senseless violence, violence to further a goal for the elite is what I oppose. Violence with reason I support.

There is something Fidel Castro said about war though that rings true and it went sort of like this: "Even during war, peace can never be ruled out and if the opportunity presents itself take it."

However, what was NOT said is that you must be warry that it could be a trap, a way for them to make you go lacks so they can kill you while your at ease... Or their way of putting you off guard so they can escape rather than face punishment for their crimes and actions.

What urks me though when I hear people say: "let us not be like them and use violence" is that I have heard that same BS before. I have talked to people who are so cowardly and unhonorable they would rather run away or let a tank run them over than fight. I have met those who would rather abandon the USA rather than take a stand against them except they forget the same people they are running from will keep comming. They want the world not just one nation, there is no running from this fight only: victory, death or surrender. There is no in between.
This next quote I might as well as add to my tag I say it so many times lately:

"It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees."
-Japanese Proverb-

Like I said, we still have one chance to stop them cold, after that it appears we will be headed towards revolution (war, violence, killing, etc) if things do not change.

The only question left is this after things keep going at this rate: How far are you willing to go and what price are you willing to pay?

Just mull that one over silently.