9/11 Activist Arrested And Charged With Espionage At Republican Debate

The real truth is that the Honeymoon period has ended for the Truthers...
Some of the people have got far too smarmy and paranoid.. there is that much disinformation, truthers almost look like a lunatic fringe these days.
I call for the 9/11 forum to be pulled and for it just to be classed as a general conspiracy..
Im sick of people like the No-Planers continuosly having to come up their with outlandish claims just to sell more DVD's or to misinform purposefully or deludedly..
We all know there has been a cover up, the reasons are classified because of threats to national security..How many more times can we go over everything with a toothcomb??
I think ATS should make a stand, Deny Ignorance and abolish the 9/11 forum, no longer give some truthers the stage to misinform and even tell out and out lies.
We have to ask ourselves do we want to be part of a lunatic fringe? or deny ignorance in our pursuit of truths?? Entertaining No Planers and the like leaves a bad taste.

Zaphod, you are in error. His press pass cannot be 'revoked' by anyone other than the entity that issued it. And it was an "open" event, not one listed as being "by invitation only", so it was a public event.

You cannot exclude people from a public event just because you want to. Legally.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
You have had your press pass revoked,

CNN issued his press pass and didn't revoke it. Did you watch the first video that 12m8keall2c posted? The people who asked him to leave weren't authorized to do so. If some dude asks you to leave a theater, does that mean you have to? The police were doing the politician's bidding.

The police were right to arrest him for trespassing once he as told to leave the premises.

So, the police were right to do the politician's bidding? :shk:

So what you're saying is that I can't legally hold an event on my property and ask anyone to leave huh? Once you're on my property you have every right to stay there? And the last I saw CNN still hadn't confirmed that they DID issue the press passes, as was said.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
So what you're saying is that I can't legally hold an event on my property and ask anyone to leave huh? Once you're on my property you have every right to stay there? And the last I saw CNN still hadn't confirmed that they DID issue the press passes, as was said.

You're way off with this thinking. It wasn't the event holders who asked the guy to leave. It was Rudy's people and they didn't run the event.
[Edit] You're right partly, the event holders were the only people who could get this guy kicked out. I'm not arguing that. I'm saying that in this particular case it wasn't them who did wrong.

[edit on 7/6/2007 by PsykoOps]

Originally posted by Zaphod58
So what you're saying is that I can't legally hold an event on my property and ask anyone to leave huh?

No, I'm saying another guest can't ask one of your guests to leave.

And the last I saw CNN still hadn't confirmed that they DID issue the press passes, as was said.

He had a CNN press pass. That information is everywhere. CNN protested his arrest. Google Matt Lepacek cnn press pass

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
There were other reporters being just as pushy. Reporters are pushy. That may have been why he was removed, but he wouldn't have gotten his question answered any other way either. The guy before him asked a difficult question and the spokesman said, "Next question."

But I didn't see other reporters en masse launching seemingly incessant barrages simultaneously, only theirs. As with the one right before him, he wasn't going to be receiving an answer either.

The problem with politicians is that they don't answer the difficult questions. If Matt had asked politely (he was very polite at first) because the question was difficult, it still wouldn't have been answered.

He wasn't asking a politician, he was asking a Guiliani staffer. Not that one is too far removed from the other, BH. birds of a feather and all. Yes he was very polite ... at first. The other reporter, who's question was disregarded, seemed to have known it wouldn't be answered, and left well enough alone. He didn't. He and the crew simply continued their incessant barrage, to include shouting over one another. In my opinion, there's a method to the madness, and their's was not the way to go about it. :twocents: Right, wrong, or indifferent as that may be ... it is.

True. But he had a right to be in the building. Can police just tell everyone what to do? ?Do we have to obey police without question? There was NO REASON for Matt to be barred from the building other than Giuliani's people didn't want him there. And that's not good enough, legally, to arrest a person.

Yes, he did have a right to be there ... initially. But in the video, when he asks who revoked his right to be there (i.e. CNN credentials) it appears that he's told someone from CNN had done so. Whether that's true or not, he could have, again, chosen a different path, approach to the situation. His choice to defy the officers warning is what landed him in the back of a cruiser. I say that based on the assumption that the officers truly felt they were acting according to protocol, and that he had in fact had his credentils revoked. I guess only time will tell. His court date seems to be set for the 3rd of July.

If you were walking home after work and a cop told you you can't walk any further, even though there was NO reason for doing so, would he have the right to arrest you if you walked further?

I've never been in that type of situation so I can't honestly answer that. Though, I'm sure I would be provided a legitimate reason once in custody.

Are the cops there to do the bidding f the politicians?

At times, it would seem so. As unfortunate as that may be, it would seem so. To be fair, it wouldn't seem that the "cops" are "there to do the bidding". They're there to maintain security, and I would have to assume they felt that they were simply doing there job, task for the evening. At who's bidding? good question.

To protect and to serve can get a bit cloudy, especially when one's uncertain as to who they're tasked with protecting or who's being served .. who's bidding, that is.

 

Excellent find, 12m. These new videos bring new insight into the incident.

It was obvious that Lepacek brought this upon himself.

It is now obvious that he was not arrested upon an order from the Giuliani staffer. And I still have to see any verification of any charge of espionage.

A couple of other interesting things from these videos:

Toward the end of the second video, Etarro is asked "Who is that guy (Lepacek)?" Etarro tells them, and ends his response with "Well, I know who he is, but I don't know who he is".

It reminded me of the Biblical passage where Peter denied knowing Jesus. "Before the cock crows twice, you will deny me thrice".

Finally at the beginning of the third video, the balding guy in the trenchcoat actually told a bald-faced lie. He said that what happened was, Matt Lepacek was actually trying to leave, but thet Giuliani's people came back and re-engaged him with a question. Lepacek only stuck around for the answer.

What a crock. I wouldn't believe anything these guys said.

2m8keall2c, doesn't it seem a bit of a stretch that he could have his press pass canceled by CNN in the amount of time that this event took? I mean, we're not talking a day here, or even hours.

I think it's safe to say that is an excuse by someone made up on the spot to cover an obvious gaff.

That is not to say that in the interest of future cooperation, CNN may not agree to this scenario.

NGC,

I wouldn't argue that in the least. Yes, it does seem a bit too convenient.

 

Since it seems to not be common knowledge; When a representative of law enforcement, in the United States, asks you to do something, you must comply or you are committing a crime. If you disagree you can challenge that in a civil action, but you can not refuse to obey the officer. Otherwise anarchy would prevail. Basic common sense. I know as I questioned an officer about this once when I was asked for ID for no apparent reason. Because I asked politely he happily answered me and even explained why he asked for ID. He had a great reason and had I not obeyed I would have been a horses behind for not complying. I have been polite with officers since and they have always been polite with me. You get in return what you hand out. I think there is plenty of evidence that whenever a Jones person does anything they actively try to be arrested. I'm sure he knew the law.

12m - Thanks so much for the video's. Everything makes sense now.

When asked if CNN had asked that he leave the building the officer replied "THEY HAVE" (emphasis mine). It is far easier for me to believe a patrolman who has no political agenda than a man and an organization who's very livelihood relies on money from supporters of their cause who are using the tape to drum up donations. Follow the money!

I know it is different in the Eastern US and large West Coast Cities, but that behavior would get you thrown out of any business or event in most towns elsewhere. That style of in your face rudeness does not help anyones cause. It guarantees nobody will listen.

I think it is also clear that nobody was charged with Espionage. People who see this title and don't read the whole thread will be misinformed.

I've searched CNN every way I can think of and there is nothing there that I can find. If he was arrested for Espionage don't you think they would report it? If the officer lied about who asked to have them leave?





[edit on 6/7/2007 by Blaine91555]

Originally posted by Blaine91555
When a representative of law enforcement, in the United States, asks you to do something, you must comply or you are committing a crime.

So, if an officer came up and asked me to bark like a dog, I must, or else face arrest?

You're right. We are supposed to comply, but that power has inherent responsibilities. The officer has the responsibility to act with integrity. I'm not at all sure that happened here.

When asked if CNN had asked that he leave the building the officer replied "THEY HAVE" (emphasis mine).

I don't believe him. I think he was lying. We saw the whole procession and never did anyone ask to have him leave. And every story says that CNN argued against his arrest.

I think it is also clear that nobody was charged with Espionage.

You're right, The title is wrong. There was talk of espionage, but that's all.

jsobecky, you're right about the guy outside lying. What a bonehead!

Originally posted by Blaine91555

12m - Thanks so much for the video's. Everything makes sense now.

You're welcome.

While I can appreciate their efforts and desire, I felt the whole of it to be little more than a "right idea - vs - wrong approach" situation.

Chances are, NO, their questions would have went or remained unanswered. At the same time, had they not taken such a paparazzi-style approach, they would have most likely walked away with a better understanding, if only as to How such topics and or questions Can/Should be approached/addressed. I would have thought that, with Alex Jones' experiences, he would have coached and or taught them better. Apparently not, mob rule and all.

 

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Since it seems to not be common knowledge; When a representative of law enforcement, in the United States, asks you to do something, you must comply or you are committing a crime. If you disagree you can challenge that in a civil action, but you can not refuse to obey the officer.

That is incorrect.

You are only required to respond to an officer's inquiries if he has reasonable suspicion that you have committed a crime. He may only do something ‘physical’ to you if you are being placed under arrest. You NEVER have to obey an unlawful order.

How meaningful are any of those rights? Not very...

...making the practical effect precisely as you describe.


[edit on 7-6-2007 by loam]

Originally posted by loam

You are only required to respond to an officer's inquiries if he has reasonable suspicion that you have committed a crime. He may only do something ‘physical’ to you if you are being placed under arrest. You NEVER have to obey an unlawful order.


[edit on 7-6-2007 by loam]

I don't agree. I will call a friend who would know for sure if that officer lied to me or not when I get back from a weekend fishing trip. I'd like to know for sure myself. I do know that officers are very helpful to polite people who obey the law.

Have a great day.

The "real" problem is that the Police are now under the guise of "Homeland Security". I could see why these two were afraid considering the Police dont have discretion anymore. Now a days, they can arrest you and detain you for almost no reason at all.

The Cops in the old days used to be on the side of the citizens, unless your were NON WHITE, and these two would be considered "Just young kids getting into mischief". In the year 2007 they are considered a "THREAT TO NATIONAL SECURITY".

Please. I am not OLD at all and I can see the correlation. We all need to read history and SEE THE SIGNS that are RIGHT BEFORE US. Our country as well as the WORLD in General is becoming a One World Government where a Few people have the power and have been given the power to make the decisions of the masses.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE. TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR OWN LIVES.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
I'd like to know for sure myself.

Remember what I said about the 'practical' effect.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
I do know that officers are very helpful to polite people who obey the law.

Sometimes.

Originally posted by jsobecky
.....................
To expect someone to remember every detail on that day is unreasonable. To think that some type of inner knowledge or involvement was revealed through a slip of the tongue is reaching for straws.

Just my .02.

Not to mention the fact that after 6 years people's memories become hazy, and people start exagerating and making things up. I can remember visual things, such as watching a conversation, watching a movie, etc, and i can replay it as if i was watching it even years later, with conversations (spoken words) sometimes i am not so good, but i can remember things most people would forget. Not a lot of people are like that. I know young people who forget what they were talking about 20 minutes ago...

Not everyone is the same, not everyone remembers everything, and a lot of people after years of something like 9/11 happening will start exagerating and adding up stuff that didn't even happen, most of the time without realizing it.

Anyways, this is certainly no "proof" of any dictatorship.

This would be the same as someone going to a birthday party and messing things around by "harassing others" even when you were not invited.

Are you going to claim "the people in the party are "nazis" because they call the police to take you away?.... I know some people probably would, but anyways...

[edit on 8-6-2007 by Muaddib]

I just watched the 2nd video and I have to say that this guy knows what he was doing He was very polite, clear and articulate of his rights as a member of the press and citizen of US. The police just refused to listen to him and had they done so they would've found out that it wasn't CNN who wanted him out. Sucks when the police dont listen to the little guy

I don't agree that what the police did was very heavy-handed at all. And I disagree with the notion that it shows an undue influence by poltical peeps.

The same thing happens all the time at sporting events, music concerts, etc. Overly-energetic people are routinely escorted out, regardless of the fact that they paid good money for a ticket!