Concerning the "Antichrist"...

To those who understand religion, namely Christianity, better than I do, I pose a question:

How does one identify the Antichrist?

I have heard many different ideas/opinions/speculations when I have asked this question of others.

I ask this question again because I am worried that there are certain traits that might make an individual look like the Antichrist to a great many people when this person is just a normal man/woman with the ambition to change the world. Mind you, not all change is bad.

I can't help but conclude, with my current knowledge, that should some charismatic person come into power with a set of ideals that require large and sweeping changes to society, that person would be considered the Antichrist by many.

For example, the issue of a 'world currency'. Let's say that in the future, a world leader initiates a plan to create a currency that would be accepted anywhere in the world. This, in my opinion, sounds like a decent plan. Alot of time and money go into currency exchange operations... It seems to me that a world currency would cause the human race alot less stress in general. It would seem to me that should something like that happen today, the leader responsible would be villified by a great many Christians. Please correct me if I am reading into this wrong...

At this point, I think alot of people would be quick to jump on the bandwagon against anyone in power who displayed certain traits or initiated certain laws/plans, regardless of wether or not they were good or helpful changes. I think it could be possible that a good leader, who truly wants to make this world a better place for everyone, would be labeled as the"Antichrist".

Please educate me on this subject, and offer your opinions too. But please don't turn this into a Christianity recruitment/conversion/bashing topic.

That is one of the problems defining the anti-christ is that you have to find Christ first so you can differentiate the two. I don't mean accept Christ, but just be able to know what Christ is all about (this way I am not suggesting I should convert you).

But, traditionally the AC has been the opposite of Christ. Where Christ stood for good the AC is evil. This really doesn't fly, because an evil person would not be upheld openly unless of course everyone loved evil.

The second train of thought is the AC is like Satan and is evil but charades as an angel of light pretending to be good but has bad ulterior motives. This is a possibility, but I don't see how the world can possibly clamor to one person so suddenly unless of course something supernatural encourages us to.

The final definition of the AC is the one I am inclined to believe and that is that the AC is a different messiah than the first one (Jesus) and will come to finish his job. He is pure in his intentions and actions, yet since the world has become evil, they will rebel against him and deny him. They will think that what is good is evil and what is evil is good. Read some of Neron Kesar's threads for some insight. I don't fully agree with Neron's thinking of one AC, but I do agree with the logic that the AC is a second messiah or savior. I personally believe the AC to be the chosen ones or multitude of 144000 described in Revelations.

[edit on 20-5-2007 by ben91069]

Check:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

We basically agree he will be simple man and not known political figure or celebrity. His rise will be very fast, unexpected and virtually out of nowhere.

Thanks for your post ben, that is exactly what I'm looking for.

The definition that you are inclined to believe is the one that would make the most sense to me logically. It's a very insightful way to look at things.

64738, I appreciate your post as well, however, the proble still remains: Regardless of how fast this person rises to power, or how popular that person is initially, it may very well be an altogether good person who has had some 'luck' or an epiphany, and truly wants to make some changes for the good of everyone. It seems to me that it would be very easy to misinterpret this person for the Antichrist by common definitions.

On another note, I noticed that you refered to the Antichrist as 'he'. Is it that certain that the Antichrist will be a male?

I too believe Antichrist, if he exists, will try to create positive changes for everyone. It would make no sense to get one more Neron at this time since world is already filled with violence and corruption. I say 'he' because almost all prophecies talk about male prophet, but i am OK with female too.

Thanks for the clarifications 64738. Maybe someone else has an opinion to add?

I have heard of all sorts of posibilitys of who the Antichrist could be.
Bush, the Pope, Gore, you name it. But I think it will be someone of power. I can't see someone who isn't in power having that much influence.
Although I don't think everyone will "side" with him on views, I think whoever it is will be able to do a snow-job on most people making his actions sound like it is helping everyone while in reality it hurts everyone.
Is he here already? If not, I suspect it won't be long. When it gets down to chiping people I think that will remove all doubt. The technology is already there. If you can't buy or sell without it, or you can be tracked ...thats a bad idea all the way around. How many times has the idea been thrown around... Clildren...let's chip them so they can't be abducted. Illegal imagrants... we can chip em so we know who is in the US leagaly if they go that route. Terrorist attack...lets chip people for thier safety. There have been other uses already or sugested in some cases. When the chips come out I think that would be a dead give away. As far as man or woman it says it will be the number of a man. The mark may be something else but as far as accepting the mark I heard some Bibles say "On the hand" while some say the original translation would be "In the hand...or forehead" Make of it what you will. The one cool thing I have seen on this site is being able to put forth different interpretations, oppinions to make people think.

Now Lookie here!!!

You know I have to get in on this discussion, baby!

Here's what you're all missing - the actual word Antichrist. In heaven, the Christ is defined as... drum roll please.... The Love Of God manifested.

The Christ energy, is the actual Love - or in other words, the commitment to saving you from this realm by your Mother/Father God. Only those who have held on to the Light of the Love of God, within this cycle of birth and death will be saved.

Here's a news flash! Your God did not create this material realm. it was imposed upon a sector of the spiritual realm, by evil, trapping your spirits in the process. In the material realm, it's been hundreds of thousands of years since it happened and you took your first body made of flesh. But in the spirit realm there is no time, so it's only been like a moment.

So the Love of God, or the Christ energy, is the commitment by your God to rescue those spirits who have not given over their will - their light, to darkness, a.k.a. evil.

The rescue mission like I said, is under way as we speak.

Yes, the Christ is present in the world right now, gathering together his/her people - those who follow the example of living according to the light, and life, and Love of God. They get to go home.

As for the anti - Christ, well, many have given over their will - their light, to darkness. Right now - this very moment in time, as you are reading this... you know whether or not the Love of God is in you. It's a fact. And so do we.

So, do you have the guts to face the true antichirst, in the flesh? Really?

Here's what you do. Go stand in front of a mirror. If the Love of God - the Christ, is not in your heart, then the Antichrist is YOU.

Am I lying?





[edit on 21-5-2007 by SatansQue]

Chimp,

About microchipping... I'm confused. Why would that be such a horrible idea? All of the things you listed sounded like pretty decent options honestly.

SatansQue,

I'm afraid to say that your statements reflect exactly why so many religious types have the tendency to rub me the wrong way. These people seem to have such conflicting agendas... On one side, they say God is all knowing and all loving, yet on the other side, they can stare someone that does not believe as they do in the face and tell them, straight up, that they are going to hell... For what? Because their parents raised them to be Muslim/Buddhist/whatever? It is this "I am holier than thou art, so thou art damned" viewpoint that turns so many people away, including myself. I believe that one shouldn't have to make themselves feel elite, or better than someone else to get into God's good graces.

To you, because I do not see things as you see them, I am damned to hell in the afterlife. And to take it one step further, during life, I am the Antichrist, who will bring suffering upon the world.

A word of caution... this ultimate elitism that so many zealots display is merely a subtle form hate. Hate is such a blind emotion, with only potential to destroy. I would love to see a mainstream religion come along that didn't offer damnation to everyone else, just to make those that participate in it feel special. Can't we all just be friends?

I appreciate that you posted your opinion SatansQue. That is what I asked you to do, after all. I hope I haven't offended you. It was not my intention. Maybe we can have a mature discussion about this?

Originally posted by SeekerOfAUTMN
To you, because I do not see things as you see them, I am damned to hell in the afterlife. And to take it one step further, during life, I am the Antichrist, who will bring suffering upon the world.

A word of caution... this ultimate elitism that so many zealots display is merely a subtle form hate.

Okay, I thought this thread was about the antichrist. Without repeating what I have already said, when you ask a question about the Anti-christ, it is impossible to answer it without speaking about the Christ.

To that end, the Christ defines himself, not me. The Christ defined his mission, on the behalf of the Supreme Personality of Godhead God to this world. So you either believe what the Christ said about him/her self or you don't. If you're not of the Christ, then you are something else. If hearing what the Christ says about Him/Her self rubs you the wrong way, then your problem is with the Christ, not me.

That is, unless you want to negate that there is a Christ, or you want the Christ to be whatever you want it to be, or maybe you believe I'm just pulling stuff out of my butt, just to make those who don't believe in a Christ feel less than those who do.

Also, I never mentioned damnation, or hell. That's in the Bible, and I do not accept the Bible as the "word of God". So I don't believe in damnation or in hell, and neither does the God of the Christ. Just because humans put that on God to scare folks into obeying rules created by man, doesn't mean it's true. God is way more chill than that. But, I'll have to admit that murdering the Christ Jesus didn't sit well.

But the fact (and I mean fact) remains that there is a rescue mission in operation as we speak, and the Christ Jesus is on the planet leading it. Sorry if this bit of truth rubs you the wrong way. If you are one of Christ's people, well, then the Christ is here to get you. If you didn't specifically choose the Christ, then why would the Christ force you to be rescued, if you don't feel the need to be rescued?

What's the big deal? It's that simple. It's about choice. You can choose to worship anything you want. But anything other than the Christ is, anti-christ. And why should you care, unless you're the kind of person who, if you can't leave, you don't want anyone else to.

Also, I am not a zealot, or a fanatic. I'm just participating in a thread that I happen to be an expert at - the anti-christ. Explaning such, has nothing to do with hatred.

Also, where did I say the antichrist brings suffering to this world? That's your assumption. Being anti-christ, means anti.... the Christ, or the Love of God manifested. This is what it means regardless what you're told or believe.

I didn't put down those who are Muslim/Buddhist. But Bhuda is not Christ, and neither is Mohammad.

Also, where is the elitism? The Christ's people are usually broke, down trodden, lead simplistic lives, care more for others than they care for themselves, are long suffering, humble, love God and neighbor with all the heart, soul and mind, are helpful to strangers, live in the world, but are not of the world, and are continually on the verge...

It's certainly a lot more fun being an AntiChrist.

Lastly, in my business, (My real business) I have known serial killers, murderers, child molesters, rapists, theives, and some of the most horrid human beings who are zealots about commiting unimaginable autrosities against humanity, over and above the afore mentioned.

So the answer to your question is absolutely not. We can't all be friends. Because to a growing munber of so-called human beings, you are nothing more than a victim waiting to be victimized, if they could just get their hands on you.

Which is why our long suffering commitment to the Love of God - the Christ, has earned us a free trip off this rock, and back to our true home.

Did I miss anything?

Initially, let me say... wow. I'm honestly impressed. I made an assumption earlier that you were merely one of the many zealots that live off of the elitism I mentioned... I was wrong. Your views are certainly deeper than that, and I apologize for coming off the way I did. I've lost many friends because they couldn't accept that I believe differently than they do. I suppose my frustration got the better of me...

Your view of the Antichrist is certainly much different and much more complex and thoughtful than most people can handle, but I understand you perfectly now. It's the people that believe (and openly state as often as possible) that Christ will save the chosen few (themselves) and leave all else to eternal damnation that display the elitism I spoke of. You don't seem to believe in that sort of 'my way or the highway' ultimatum, and I totally respect that.

I might add that, yes, there are followers of Christ that are humble, selfless people, and that applies to good-hearted people the world over, despite their religion. I'm certainly not perfect, but I honestly try to make the world a better place. That's the most God can ask of us, in my opinion.

And you're right. We can't all be friends in a sense. However, when I stated that I think I meant it in a broader sense. For example, I would never befriend a rapist, but I know I could find it in myself to forgive them. That doesn't mean that I would let said rapist continue their misdeeds, but I could forgive them for being the way they are, which is why I have trouble with the concept of 'evil'. But that's starting to dig into a whole new 'good vs. evil' philosophical discussion, so I won't go there in interest to my topic.

In any case, well said SatansQue. You've got my respect. You certainly answered my initial question with intelligence. This is exactly why I joined ATS. Intelligent conversation is disappointingly rare these days.

Originally posted by SeekerOfAUTMN
You don't seem to believe in that sort of 'my way or the highway' ultimatum, and I totally respect that.

A couple of quick notes about the rescue mission, which ties into this whole discussion about the anti-christ, and evil. Most Christians, because of the Bible, believe that God created this material realm, which is the root of all misunderstandings about God, and the "my way, or the highway mentality".

If you believe in God, then you know all life comes from God, and we are a spark of the light of God. Well there was a moment when several of our brothers in spirit, decided to turn against the Light, refusing to be corrected in an error in judgement. Because God is absolute, it was not possible for error to exist in the spirit realm, so instead of correcting themselves, they decided to create their own place, and basically said, F' you to God.

So they manifested this material realm, using the power of the light of God within them, to create an impregnable structure, imposed over a sector of the spiritual realm. At that time, many of the Light beings in the spiritual realm had no clue as to what evil or darkness was - when they saw the new thing created by their brothers, they became curious, got to close, and found themselves trapped within it.

Once in, it is impossible to get out. Matter in the spirit realm is equivalent to evil, because it was not created by God, and is completely useless except as a trap. But to power this new realm, required a great deal of energy. Since each trapped spirit/human had the power of God within, but tended to forget God here, the dark brothers realized the more stress you put on a spirit/human, the more energy they expend, which in turn, sustains the illusion.

So they created this, which is actually Hell - the material universe, in which the light beings are trapped in a perpetual birth and death senario, expending energy through their pain and suffering, birth and death, working, making babies, fighting wars, etc.

But the dark brothers needed even more energy. They couldn't just take a spirit/human's light, they had to convince them to hand it over of their own free will.

Once they started collecting the lights, (their spirits) the souls (minds) of these individuals still manifested an empty physical shell, that they could then send all sorts of evil, dark sprirts to occupy and put even more stress on those who held on to their light through rapes, murders, child molestation etc.

Now, from the moment these dark brothers of ours created this realm, hundreds of thousands of years ago, The True Light - our God, began trying to figure out how to destroy it. Since there is no time in the spirit realm, it was only like, a day ago.

In the meantime, God sent representatives from the spirit realm here to say simply, "This is not your home, prepare to get the heck out of here. We have a rescue mission planned." More or less, depending on the audience's capasity.

Zorasthura, Moses, Bhuda, Luria and many great sages, and prophets have come to this world from God, but they were all the same spirit each time. Same message, but also, to inspect the material realm for "kinks" or a path out.

The last and most important spirit sent, was the Christ in the flesh of Jesus. The Christ said pretty much the same things, but more importantly, He/She took away the most powerful tool our dark brothers used against us, that being death. Once the Christ defeated death, by example, he showed us a permanent pathway out of here. And all it needed was a about 2,000+ years for the material manifestation to break down sufficiently so the actual rescue mission could commence.

Gaia, the spirit of this earth escaped, Dec 26, 2004

With Gaia gone, time, and this evil material realm is on it's last leg. Myan calender?

The Christ is the escape route. Now, is that the same as saying 'my way or the highway?'

You are a Light being. Time to choose.

imo...

the 'Christ' is more an ideal than a person,
& the christ ideal is those things we are told are the higher traits of human nature....like love, giving, care, idealism, moral character, charity, innocence, humor, volunteerism, honesty, integrity, you all know the long list of character traits that elevates a person above the crowd ...


in the opposite direction are the anti-christ traits; power grabbing, larceny,
theft, murder, hatred, covert schemes, perversion, hedonism, you know the long list of character issues that seperates a person from the larger community...



think about how the Christ lived his ministry, except for turning over the money-changers booths at the Temple, he was an exemplary person,
myth or ideal, i just don;t know.
But i do know that the Christ, left no relics or icons for the world, only a lifetime of example.
However, the end-times anti-christ will have an 'Image' of himself
installed in some sanctuary/temple wing & will be known as an
Abomination of Desolation [i guess only among the followers of the Christ]
~~which is an act that is completely un-Christ like~~

i suspect that the person, (who will later put his image/statue/icon
in that Holy place),
was a much adored, reveled, idealized person who achieved great or stupendious things, maybe even engineering a 7 year peace in the middle-east,
maybe addressing global food shortages, droughts, health issues, severe climate change...and did much that was viewed as higher callings.
~~that even the 'elect' should be deceived, if it were possible~~

so, looking for tell-tale signs, like another Hitler or Ghengis Khan
is not the answer...
the anti-christ will reveal himself when it's way too late for many
and it won't be so obvious to the great majority, because the world
system will be rationalized as good & beneficial up until there seems to be a mass epiphany and the 10 kings that gave power to the anti-christ
plunder and destroy the kingdom of the anti-christ at the end-time

Hmmm... As much as I find you view interesting SatansQue, I have to wonder where you got all your information?

It's an interesting story, and it seems to make sense, but I still can't help but wonder where it came from?

[edit on 23-5-2007 by SeekerOfAUTMN]

Originally posted by SeekerOfAUTMN
Hmmm... As much as I find you view interesting SatansQue, I have to wonder where you got all your information?

It's an interesting story, and it seems to make sense, but I still can't help but wonder where it came from?

SeekerOfAUTMN,

We are living in the period of time refered to as the Harmonic Convergence. We are also at the beginning of the Age of Aquarius. One of the highlights of these times, is that the magnetic field of the earth is changed. If you think of the nagnetic field of the earth as creating a sort of containment shell, keeping us from seeing beyond our own 3D reality, the lessening of it, is a lessening of the containment shell.

www.space.com...
news.bbc.co.uk...

Many changes have taken place within our own physical structures, and on a genetic level as well, resulting in our Light, or spirit energy stepping up in vibration - like waking from a deep sleep.

Those who are paying attention, and have learned to focus this newfound energy to varying degrees are getting a glimpse of the mechanics of this illusion we're living in, seeing the formerly invisible secrets of our existance in this universe. We are all drawn towards each other, in person, and via this world wide community, the internet. We absorb, and share information. We verify knowledge we have understood our entire existance, and in these present incarnations. And we remember our own experiences, before this present time, and we... see.

One of the reasons the whole religion thing is out of controll, is because men have relied on books, presuming to call works made by their own hands, the Word of God. So all they can understand is what the books tell them, and nothing outside of the box created for humanity to live in.

The real relationship with our Mother God, the feminine aspect of the one God, which represents Divine Wisdom, and Compassion manifested through the Christ, is that she pours out knowledge to those who approach with a sincere, and humble heart.

Don't be fooled into thinking a feminine aspect of our father God, is the same as investing duality to the Godhead. In this present incarnation, I am a writer, a sculptor, a composer, a baker, and a chef. Does this mean I am five different person, or one person with many aspects. Spiritually, God is Father, Mother, and Son, but one God.

Knowing, also has nothing to do with faith. It's about a process of elimination, through logic, healthy skepticism, a zeal for knowledge, and the experience of seeing with my own eyes, glimpses of the spirit realm.

So to answer your question where it all came from? Not from me. I asked a question 40 years ago, and it's taken this long to verifying the truth of it, through answers to other questions, research of thousands of manuscripts, through kindred spirits I have met along the way, and the combined experiences of many, under the spiritual guidence of the One.

For what purpose? To be a know it all? Or a know it some? Naw. The knowledge gives me another personal reason to hold on, to be patient, no matter what happens, until it is my time to go home. In my heart, I am already there.

In the meantime, we're posting stuff trying to slip through all the chatter. 1 out of a thousand may see something that makes them ask Divine Wisdom their own questions. Maybe they'll get an answer that helps them to hold on too.

BTW, the Satan thing is my way of rejecting the ideology of fear the church has been spewing for so many years, by using the object of fear as a messanger of the truth, as I understand it.

Peace And thanks for the lovely chats.

I encourage you to think of the Divine Mother, as a spiritual personality, and friend, and not just as energy. You'll be surprised how fast the Lights go on.

ron paul? just a guess. ok ok but he is starting to fit the description. hey im a huge supporter of ron..for now.

Originally posted by SeekerOfAUTMN
Hmmm... As much as I find you view interesting SatansQue, I have to wonder where you got all your information?

It's an interesting story, and it seems to make sense, but I still can't help but wonder where it came from?

yes, it is entrancing at that, 3 thumbs up

you may want to familiarize with the Gnostic creation story
& the goddess creator 'Sophia', creator of the material universe we find ourselves in...

mix in the avowed 40 years of insights...
with paganism, ecumenical religiousity, new age, eastern philosophy....
and a myriad of other teachings that SatansQue has culled,
refined, and then presented to us in a readers digest kinda way...........well done sir


PS: this is not attempting to make a definitive answer to your question,
it is only pointing to general themes SQ seems to have incorporated into that particular world-view presented (or how i interpret SQ's posts)...

thanks,
& i return the balance of my time to the gentleman from ....

satansque im diggin your vib. i understand everything youve said and agree. im kinda unclear on your thoughts about the bible. do you think its just man writings or do you think its a message given to us from somewhere other than this planet. i myself believe it is a message from our creator for many reasons. another thing is do you think there is a plan for salvation? i mean is there things we can do such as repenting and being baptized in the name of jesus for remission of our sins as part of this escape?(acts 2:38) peter seems to have thought there was. as for the antichrist....i know what your saying. everything we are seeing happening today is the lead in for this one person or ourselves personally. its a perfect match....as far as biblical scripture and the headlines. its definatly close. have you seen the video "the great year" about the cycle of the stars and the new age we are entering into....its like gears in a well oiled machine

the whole video was on youtube but they took it off...heres the previews.

The Great Year - Preview 1


The Great Year - Preview 2



[edit on 23-5-2007 by Funkydung]

St udio, and Funkydung,

You both have raised very interesting points, which I will attempt to adress, hopefully to your satisfation.

Originally posted by st Udio
PS: this is not attempting to make a definitive answer to your question,
it is only pointing to general themes SQ seems to have incorporated into that particular world-view presented (or how i interpret SQ's posts)...

The reason so many themes seem to be incorporated is because throughout the ages, representatives from the spiritual realm have continually traversed to this planet in an effort to buttress the Light beings, who were trying to hold on to the hope of an end to the suffering here. In times past, with the lack of global communication, the message from our true home had to fit the audience it was being delivered to, using imagry, and words that suited their intellect.

The Divine Mother of Wisdom and compassion knew that within each sub-group, or sect of humans, there existed X number of spirit/humans who would actually hear the message, and then hold on to their light. Spirit/humans trapped in this cycle of birth and death experience countless incarnations. Just about every spirit/human on this planet, has been here since the beginning. And each of us have heard countless words of hope from avatars sent to whatever race we belonged to along the way.

The point is that each belief has a bit of the truth concealed within, but the serious explorer does not stop with what he/she is told, but continues to search for the ultimate truth. The culmination of all truths, in linier time is the Christ & the rescue mission.

Originally posted by funkydung
im kinda unclear on your thoughts about the bible. do you think its just man writings or do you think its a message given to us from somewhere other than this planet. i myself believe it is a message from our creator for many reasons.

If you believe the Bible comes from God, review what your God says about idol worship. Essentially, anything touched by the hands of men, is not fit to be worshipped as having come from God. Think about it. Would you trust a Bible commissioned from Bill clinton, or George Bush? The Holy Roman Empire, through successive nicene councils hammered together the actual finished product called the Bible.

Folks like to say that men inspired by God, wrote down what God told them to write. If that's true, the Aquarian Gospel of the Christ should be right up there with the Bible, but it's not. Levi H. Dowling says he actually read the Christ' Akashic records, and copied down what he saw, word for word.

Simply put, men lie! For power, for controll, for money, for booty. Go to CNN.com and watch the video of the woman who's husband put their child into a microwave oven. God was speaking to him, according to the wife.

Also, the Bible is filled with animal sacrifices. Listen, if there is one thing our God dispises, it's the killing animals and offering their dead carcases and blood to Him/Her. As if God is some sort of sicko, blood thirsty feind. Jesus was appauled - incensed by the sounds of bleating lambs being slaughtered, which is why jesus, and his family were Essenes!

And God never asked Abraham to kill his son on an alter. It's just blatently absurd and a lie. And God is not jealous, angry, or vengfull.

Paul's views towards women, is in direct conflict with how Jesus treated women - as equals in spirit. There are whole websites dedicated to Paul's many indiscrepancies with Jesus.

What happens immediately after an avatar leaves the planet, is the dark brothers (nothing to do with race) set about perverting the message in any way they can to keep the people here. Using lies & half truths, mixed in with some truth.

Calling the Bible the Word of God - as God is my witness, is actually anti-Christ. The Christ Jesus did not preach from a Bible, or consult one before he preached, and neither did a single desciple for 350 years after.



[edit on 23-5-2007 by SatansQue]