Tomorrow the FBI will be able to invade everyone's internet.

Originally posted by Spawwwn
As for the pedophilia thing..who said i say they prey on children? it's not pedophila if they are past the age of puberty. News fash puberty kicks in like 13 or 14 so it's NOT pedophila. KEep in mind people use to be married and have kids at the ripe old age of 15..so this idea that we somehow are doing anybody a favor by locking up 40 year old men who sleep with willing teenage girls is garbage. like i said, lock those porstitutes up for being so loose. It's their fault really, they should be the ones going to jail..not the old guy who probably works his butt off all day.

Not to go on and on about this but...

Whaaat!

You think it's ok for a 40 year old guy to be with a 13 year old?? Yes, it used to be that people were married when they were 15, but does that happen anymore? Nope. So just because of that it is ok to be with a 15 year old?

It's the old guy's fault because they were looking for children in the first place!

big deal some crappy songs by some one hit wonders get downloaded. someone rips off adobe..

Which is stealing.
Would it be fun if somebody stole your car? I don't think so. Stealing is stealing.

that's the whole purpouse of the internet.

Oh, I thought it was to share and get information and connect with others, not stealing.

enjoies05: well i look at it this way. consexual sex provided both parties are over the age of like 14 is fine. it's not neccecarily right, but lets be real kids are having sex with each other by 14 or 15 anyway. And no it's not the guys fault, because isn't that girl looking for the same thing? she wants an older man. he wants a younger woman..WTF is the problem?

I don't know why the guy or the older one is the one demonized. the younger one was just as willing, and searching just as hard. i think they both sohuld be fined..if anyone gets fined at all. There is a difference between holding someone down at and raping them, and having consentual sex with an "underage" girl.

But the idea that these girls are somehow duped and tricked into sleeping with old men over the internet is ridiculous. IF she's that stupid, well she deserves to get "molested" anyway..because there's nothing he can do over the internet except type to her! IF she wants to be rid of her, then simply block the guy..it's not rocket science which i why i said that it's the parents and kids job to block the people they don't want, not the job of the other person do like not do it or whatever.

Brill = internet pedophiles DO NOT EXIST. I explained this before. Anyone with a brain knows that they can simply use the block button. Anyone who doesn't use the block button..WANTS IT, so therefore..it's not pedophilia it's just consensual sex. Blame the stupid teeange girls it's their fault for being horny and letting the old guys sleep with them.

OF course i made mistakes and learned from many. But see that's where education comes in. You have to educate your kids on how to use a simple button. You have to educate them into knowing that it's not their friends who can read all their personal info on myspace..it's everyone. The problem with society is that people are lazy and expect people to keep them safe. It's nobodys job to keep you safe but yourself. I mean the world is not your parents. And once you are grown and can take care of yourself..you need to stop complaining and take care of yourself. This is why people sue mcdonalds because they got to fat "WELL I DIDN'T KNOW THAT EATING 3 BIG MACS A DAY WAS BAD FOR ME". pee off. eat another burger and STFU.

You pay for the internet, but the content as a whole is free. File sharing is not illegal. P2P is the same thing as a guy making a dub of a cd, and giving it to his friends. The whole idea of the internet was free information exchange. Free is free..not free only-when-we-say-it-is. The thing is..not everything in life needs to have rules and restrictions. It's hard enough to follow societys rules in real life, don't compound my frustration by forcing me to obey some fake cyber rules as well. Something has to give, and if i can't get a way with a little deviant behavior on the net..then i'm probably just gonna do bad things in real life because i'll have no way to indulge the mischevious side of me.

Ok about the program...you'd need something that basically stops those spesific packets from being sent to the FBI. either that..or you'd need something that somehow gives you a false IP, or makes that data somehow unreadable on your comp. Without seeing the FBI's programs packets i can only guess, i would need to see how that prog works and see where it's taking the info from, and what your ISP is also doing and then i would be able to tell you how to make a program to stop it. i've only ever bothered writing scripts for video games and i'm not even that good with it yet cause i haven't studied it like i intend to. but don't doubt me man..i've done some sick stuff on the net and with computers. i'm not a leet hax0r or anything..but belive me i've pulled my share of net cons.

duh i know proxys and all that are still traceable..but it's just about making it harder for them to find the data easily. yes they'll see the proxy, and they'll break through your firewall..but it's just about making them take the extra 10 minutes to do it so you can use that time to destroy your comp.

[edit on 15-5-2007 by Spawwwn]

Originally posted by Spawwwn
File sharing is not illegal. P2P is the same thing as a guy making a dub of a cd, and giving it to his friends.

Yes it is.

Sharing copyrighted music (which is what alot of people download) violates the copyright owner’s rights of reproduction and distribution under U.S. Copyright Law

Originally posted by brill

Originally posted by Spawwwn
fact is that online pedophiles don't even exist. most are just horny old men, who solicit willing teeange girls.

[...]

saying that internet preadators exist is as stupid as saying that the war on terrorism can be won.

Absurd. There are online predators and they are real I don't see how you can possibly think otherwise. In cases such as this I'm actually for increased surveillance.

Ah, be careful brill.

Yes, spawwwn's comments were a bit...off...but your response on this particular comment is exactly the kind of thinking which allows for these incremental steps to be taken.

Increased surveillance is not neccesary for the catching of online predators. Chatrooms and websites like myspace are used frequently for 'baiting' these individuals by way of posing as a child.

Most, if not all, sites which cater to children allow for this type of baiting. An increased surveillance is not neccesary. If we are to allow increased surveillance to this extent on the internet to 'catch pedophiles' then the same reasons can be used to justify the installing of cameras in our parks and backyards (afterall, most child abductions occur in these two areas).

Fear of predators, criminals and terrorists is exactly why the majority of this country is giving away their privacy and their freedoms.

Edit to add: Let us keep this on topic. Spawwwn, debating the definition of pedophilia or where the fault lies is for another thread in another forum. Please, on topic.

[edit on 5/15/0707 by spines]

I think what people tend to forget about when situations come up like this...is that this will continue to happen without hesitation...you would think if the government really gave a crap...they would ask the people of this country if they approved of this or not...because aren't we the ones who live here??

But no...they just do what they please...this government is not about the people in this country anymore...it's about money...control...and manipulation of the masses either through fear or lies.

Time to wake up folks...even if you do nothing wrong and are a decent person with nothing to hide...you can't honestly sit here and tell me and everyone else that you don't mind that the government....knows what/where you eat (via Debit/Credit card) at what time and how much of a tip you left...what/where you buy anything (via Debit/Credit Card)...how much money you have in the bank...what you do with your money...

When/wherever you go....(via mass cameras popping up all over the place...look at what's going on in britain)...possible RFID chips in a National I.d. card that will be mandatory unless you don't feel like ever getting on an airplane or leaving this country ever again...sounds more like this country is turning into 1 giant prison...we the people are made to believe we have rights...but they are being stripped from us every day...and now this...

Kiss your internet privacy away...but I guess it's ok right? I MEAN we can now get those dirty terorrists because the F.B.I. is on the job and is taking care of everything!!! But I think the real terrorists are the people who are running this country...and not the people living in it...

Well a few pages back I was hit on for wasting money and not mentioning spoofing MAC addresses. The problem with spoofing is that it requires software and software requires code. If you have the code you can beat the code. Don't get me wrong, changing your spoofed MAC address by software is a good tactic and may take some time to figure out, especially if you can choose the address provided you are educated on valid addresses. But when faced with the possibility of a spoofed address, you can then start looking harder and begin using more traditional methods of investigation. But to place trust of anonymity in software over hardware is a little risky in my opinion.

I have found no one is a master of everything. Not even our investigators. Yeah, if this site is monitored as closely as it is thought to be you can bet many notes are being taken on this thread. Many good ideas were made public and they can always knock on my door if they want to do so. But as I have said in another thread, they had best plan to kill me. Leaving me alive and permanently disgruntled would be unwise.

Now make no mistake, I love my country and would defend it to the death. But I know that the authority of the government is only granted constitutionally by We the People. And that is who I answer to, not that which can be removed by a vote or force if We the People decide to do so.

Originally posted by enjoies05

Well that is illegal, and people have gotten fines for doing that.

But you should not do illegal things no matter if the government is watching you or not.

Why because the law says its "bad?"

Who gets to decide what is right and wrong?

Last time I checked the government was not the most morally conscious institution in the world. What gives them the right to police a free system?

This is crap, no matter if you're a criminal or not.

Wake up and smell the coffee, this is another right being stripped from us.

But of course we Americans would rather put our heads in the sand and play dead than deal with real problems.

Another win for big government/big business.

Next we'll have a brain chip and be sent hundreds of spam email into our heads daily.

The future looks great .

Government 9943543543543 People 0 and counting.

Glad to see at least some people can read and understand what's going on.

Originally posted by enjoies05

Originally posted by Spawwwn
File sharing is not illegal. P2P is the same thing as a guy making a dub of a cd, and giving it to his friends.

Yes it is.

Sharing copyrighted music (which is what alot of people download) violates the copyright owner’s rights of reproduction and distribution under U.S. Copyright Law

No it's not.

giving your buddy an unsolicited copy of a copyrighted work is not illegal. it is that fact that you are the original owner, you know him personally, and you are not making money on the transaction that renders it legal. most file shareing does not fall into this category, but it is a valid comparison nevertheless...

dkp

Originally posted by biggie smalls

Originally posted by enjoies05

Well that is illegal, and people have gotten fines for doing that.

But you should not do illegal things no matter if the government is watching you or not.

Why because the law says its "bad?"

Who gets to decide what is right and wrong?

Last time I checked the government was not the most morally conscious institution in the world. What gives them the right to police a free system?

The Constitution is a load of horse [insert swear word here]. Straight up man...nothing written over 300 years ago has any bearing on what goes on today. The biggest crap in the government is the idea that they never need to revisit or revamp their laws. News flash American laws are the white mans laws...old, dead white men at that. This concept that the constitution is the be all end all law of life..is ridiculous.

This new internet law only spies on people. There's absoloutley no reason for that. The best they will do is catch a few people with "illegal" progs and music..and fine them to get more money to go into beating down black kids on the street.

I'm against anything that benefits the government and this benefits them a lot. I value privacy, not "security". It's more important that the average citzen remain private..then have a system of spyware and data miners in place to make sure johnny isn't downloading any free songs.

Furthermore..why isn't this headline news? this should be on every newspaper and news show in the country..yet this is the first time i'm hearing about it. WTF is up with that?

Interesting, you would think this kind of eavesdropping would be covered under phone tap laws. I guess they have worked there way around that little obstacle haven't they?

I wonder how well the first few trials will go before the ACLU and other privacy groups have a piss and moan contest about this? I wonder if the privacy agreements that most of us were forced to sign when installing the ISP will still hold up in court?

has anyone actually read one of those before?

And I also have to agree that the line "if your not a criminal you have nothing to worry about" is a crock. I'm not a criminal but I certainly don't want some J.Edgar voyeur spying on me.

Well Spawwwn, not sure I would want to quote anything you wrote lest it should be mistaken that I agree with anything you said.

Piracy of music: In most record contracts a small advance is given to the artists before any money is paid in record sales that advance must be repaid by witholding the royalites that are directly paid to the record company and then distributed to the artists in monthly lump sum payments. The majority of royalites are paid by radio stations who gain money by advertising. The old average was about 5 cents per play.

A one hit wonder can rake in a ton of money over the summer. "Who Let the Dogs Out?" and "Don't Worry Be Happy" each made a ton of money just from radio royalities. And this why Queen was very concerned about royalities for the sample of "Under Pressure" used in "Ice, Ice Baby". That meant if they won the case a whole lot more nickels than the song ever made would be floating their way.

The second way royalities are paid to artists is by a percentage of record sales. By downloading a song and never purchasing it you deny the artist of a good bit of royality money. By exclusively listening to music by means of iPod you are not hearing the advertisers on the radio so the radio station must charge less and play more ads to generate money. Less air time for music means less air play of songs, less royalities, less record sales from the "free radio advertisement" of their songs.

Movie Piracy: Movie studios approve of movies and usually directly pay for their production or sponser an indepenant producer to finace the payment of actors, screenwriters, director, crew, editors, film, cameras, foley artist, musicians, special effects, distribution, advertising and million other details that go into a film. Millions of dollars are spent before a film is ready to be seen by an audience. Buy denying box office sales you hurt everyone in the process but especially the producer who only makes a dime after all expenses are repaid. So while the box office video sales and rentals can reap in $500 million world wide, the person or persons that paid for it might make only $150K-$500K if they have a standard contract. Not a huge profit margin compared to the $200 million gambled to make the film is it?

No, your personal removal from the equation has little effect. But when you add up the millions of others also doing the same thing it has a huge impact. Song to be sung and stories to be told just won't happen if there is no money in it.

Online Pedophilia: Remember having to turn in consent forms to go on school field trips? There is a very good reason for those forms then and today. Basically it is so the parent is informed that their child is where they expect them to be.

By law a minor is not permited to enter into a legally binding contract without parental (or legal guardian) consent. The legal basis for this is that a minor does not have the full mental capacity to understand the ramifications of their actions. This is a primary reason that sex with minors is against the law. Part of the desire for sex during puberty is primal reproduction urges. The time when a girl quits playing with dolls and wants real ones. Believe it or not babysitting usually curbs those urges but the teenaged babysitter is more the exception than the norm now.

Peer pressure also comes into the desire to have sex. The hypothetical 40 year man (hope it is hypothetical in your case by the way) that take advantage of this is situation of confusion in a child is not really that different than Fagan in Oliver Twist using the natural mischief in boys to perform theft for his benefit. Or real pimps using runaway girls as prostitutes after providing them with shelter, food and "protection".

By pressing advantage of a child's desire to be considered grown up by engaging in adult behavior be it sex, drinking, drug use or even smoking as all four are addictive vices. Examine the desire to view more hardcore pornography as you progress in viewing experience if you have doubt of sex being an addiction. The adult not only commits a phyiscal crime but an emotional and psychological one as well because the child has lost the protection of innocence that childhood provides.

As to why a girl or even boy seeks out the adult can stem from not having easy opportunity within their peer group, desire for better more experienced sex by/with non-virgins, thought of acceptance by adults reaffirms that they are adults, and previous victims of sexual abuse and can only accept sex from adult psychologically.

Originally posted by enjoies05

Originally posted by PSP
So enjoies05, you never download any music ilegal?

Nope.

There is a thing called a job, and you do your job, and you get little green pieces of paper called "money" and you use that money to buy what you want. Downloading music is the same thing as stealing.

Like i care that downloading music is ilegal, those crappy rappers make enough money without selling cd's so i dont care.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
The problem with these complaints and fears is that nobody ever offers another alternative. How could the authorities deal with people who harm children or steal music or steal movies or hack other peoples systems? You have to do more than complain. You have to have a better answer or complaining is just so much whining. How do we protect ourselves from Child Predators for instance? They just arrested one that lived in a trailer in the alley behind my office. He had three computers and many Internet accounts. How could they have caught him otherwise? He would still be there and eventually some child would have been hurt. I don't have the answer. Does anyone else?

The police use entrapment, they have police officers pose as a juicy victim to catch the predator in the act. They also create fake sites to lure, hackers, child predators, terrorist, etc, etc. The malevolent generally fall into these traps unless they are extremely knowledgeable, intelligent, paranoid or careful.
_______________________

How far do the people trust the FBI or the CIA? Who monitors the guards?

How much trust do you have in your governments? Who monitors them?

Are politicians trust worthy? Can ordinary people make a change or are they mislead by the ones in power?

The more things change the more they stay the same. Even after a revolt, the shadow government will slowly but surely turn it back to the way it was, just in another disguise.

The show will go on until the puppet masters are found. Secrecy is power too.

Tomorrow FBI Will Be Jacked Into Everyone's Internets

Everyone in just the USA, right?....ok, so not everyone....

You do realise there are around 800 million internet users outside of the USA ?

www.internetworldstats.com...

World ignorance aside, there is a good chance that Echelon has been able to do this globally, already, for around 4 years.

The way I see it, is that paranoia breeds the big brother state. I mean, do you actually think we really have the resources to go through the internet usage of 233 million odd people within North America and laugh that you're downloading midget porn? No, I very much doubt it. Even if they did, do you really care that someone in power is discussing the fact that you joined the Britney Spears online Fanclub? **

It's a perspective thing. Really, this means nothing in your everyday life if you actually think about it. Well, unless you're a terrorist plotting to blow something up and then this turns out to be a good thing won't it? Oh wait, you can't have it both ways......



**The references to midget porn/Britney Spears Fanclub is not made personally to the OP, just used as example.








[edit on 15-5-2007 by timb3r]

Originally posted by Spawwwn
Brill = internet pedophiles DO NOT EXIST. I explained this before. Anyone with a brain knows that they can simply use the block button. Anyone who doesn't use the block button..WANTS IT, so therefore..it's not pedophilia it's just consensual sex. Blame the stupid teeange girls it's their fault for being horny and letting the old guys sleep with them.

Unfortunately things cannot be reduced ignorantly to the claim that a "block button" will solve all the problems. The issue is more complicated than that but this is very off topic so I'll stop there.

Originally posted by Spawwwn
OF course i made mistakes and learned from many. But see that's where education comes in. You have to educate your kids on how to use a simple button.

I already stated that. I clearly mentioned that parental control was a factor.

Originally posted by Spawwwn
You pay for the internet, but the content as a whole is free.

I think your lax approach would change quickly if you were marketing software. I don't know what you do for a living but if you have a job I don't think you'd like me or anyone else for that matter to use your services/product for free. This fantasy you have about a free ride is ludicrous.

Originally posted by Spawwwn
Ok about the program...you'd need something that basically stops those spesific packets from being sent to the FBI. either that..or you'd need something that somehow gives you a false IP, or makes that data somehow unreadable on your comp. Without seeing the FBI's programs packets i can only guess, i would need to see how that prog works and see where it's taking the info from, and what your ISP is also doing and then i would be able to tell you how to make a program to stop it. i've only ever bothered writing scripts for video games and i'm not even that good with it yet cause i haven't studied it like i intend to. but don't doubt me man..i've done some sick stuff on the net and with computers. i'm not a leet hax0r or anything..but belive me i've pulled my share of net cons.

Well I beg to differ here. If you understood the underlying mechanics of what's in place your comments would be more effective. They just come off rather naive.

Originally posted by Spawwwn
duh i know proxys and all that are still traceable..but it's just about making it harder for them to find the data easily. yes they'll see the proxy, and they'll break through your firewall..but it's just about making them take the extra 10 minutes to do it so you can use that time to destroy your comp.

And you honestly think that matters? Your assumptions are vague and your conclusions are completely unrealistic. Good luck to you.

brill

Originally posted by spines

Originally posted by brill
Absurd. There are online predators and they are real I don't see how you can possibly think otherwise. In cases such as this I'm actually for increased surveillance.

Ah, be careful brill.

Yes, spawwwn's comments were a bit...off...but your response on this particular comment is exactly the kind of thinking which allows for these incremental steps to be taken.

Increased surveillance is not neccesary for the catching of online predators. Chatrooms and websites like myspace are used frequently for 'baiting' these individuals by way of posing as a child.

Most, if not all, sites which cater to children allow for this type of baiting. An increased surveillance is not neccesary. If we are to allow increased surveillance to this extent on the internet to 'catch pedophiles' then the same reasons can be used to justify the installing of cameras in our parks and backyards (afterall, most child abductions occur in these two areas).

Fear of predators, criminals and terrorists is exactly why the majority of this country is giving away their privacy and their freedoms.

Completely agree with you spines I must do a better job of conveying my thoughts

I have no doubts that this is simply a means to pursue a higher agenda. As I mentioned earlier they need a process whereby they can provide a justifiable means. What better way than to nab the 'bad guys' and show the citizens that it does work. I don't agree one bit with this initiative but I do agree that scumbags need to be put away. Its a balancing act that can't satisfy both parties.

brill

Theres nothing to worry about, the system will only kick in on certain keywords, so if you want to bring the system down just mention the following everytime you send an e-mail etc.

Bomb, Nuke, Terror, Terrorist, Bush, Blair, Jihad, Bil Laden, White House, Pentagon, Planes, Pilot Training, Anthrax, I'm sure you get the idea.

What disgusts me is RIAA can have you detained for sharing your OWN music... until you can prove it's yours. That is just twisted.

Luckily, I'm in Canada. Downloading music is completely legal, uploading it again is a minor offense. (Unless of course you either have permission, or made it yourself.)

What really pisses me off is, copyright laws actually allow you to make a copy of segments of someone's work for personal reference, just so long as you don't publish that work yourself as if it were your own.

RIAA goes WAY beyond copyright laws.
Luckily Canada backs copyright laws, not RIAA's laws.


On the topic of making the public scared by telling them they're being watched...
I think it's hilarious when the US comes out and tells the Americans yet another reason they think they should be scared... I say the best way to defeat this is to laugh.

-Laugh every time you see the terror threat level.
-Laugh every time you hear news about being monitored.
-Laugh every time they say anything about their war.

Eventually, it will catch on, and the people in power will notice the people laughing... they can't use it as a threat anymore.

Laughter is good for you, helps you think clearly... if there really is something to worry about, it's better to have a clear head on your shoulders.

So go ahead, laugh... enjoy life. Who needs a government that wants to keep you down?

Well im gonna send my friend an email with this stuff in it : Bomb, Nuke, Terror, Terrorist, Bush, Blair, Jihad, Bil Laden, White House, Pentagon, Planes, Pilot Training, Anthrax.
I hope the FBI come give me an visit, i already have the coffee set for them.

This is too far. Although i dont condone any illegal activity on the internet, this should not be allowed. It is basically like a hacker that can see everything i am doing on the internet. That is the way I see it.