Tomorrow the FBI will be able to invade everyone's internet.

Originally posted by Badge01
If you have a Mac or a Web Cam, be sure and turn it off before abusing yourself at your keyboard. They'll be able to spy at you through the lens and look down and see if one hand is not above board.

Kind of LOL, not saying they'd be as concerned about what your hands are doing, more like a photograph of you, but maybe truer than you think. Or that I'm just paranoid. Also, I try to make sure that the built in mic on my laptop is not working while on the net. Just in case.

Wow there sure is a lot of paranoia and sky is falling syndrome going on in this thread. Look its really easy. If your legit then yes who cares because if you think that Internet surfing is the only means by which profiling occurs its time to wake up. Bank records, medical records, academic records, driving records, etc. are readily available and usually much easier to collect.

If your on the dark side you just have to be a little creative. There are tools and methods available to make tracing very very difficult. Encryption is also a powerful ally. Is it inconvenient....sure but if you really want to maintain privacy do some reading and research.

Also it seems as though the taps are at this point only when a warrant is served so there would not be any longterm trending or data collection underway at the ISP level, its counter-productive(I'm talking about full data captures here). Problem is you won't know when that happens so your back to my previous suggestions.

Finally as some others have pointed out this is not really anything new its just a bit more specific. In my opinion if they have the tools in the first place (NSA level) then this wouldn't have been made public. So it stands to reason that the carnivores and echelons may not be quite the setup we perceived them to be. Petitions are a wasted effort this sounds like the Hans Blix approach to diplomacy as seen in Team America ("Or else we will be very angry with you... and we will write you a letter, telling you how angry we are."). Pointless.

brill

[edit on 14-5-2007 by brill]

Originally posted by zorgon
Sniper rifle shoots GPS chips into people...

According to Wikipedia, thats a hoax.

The ID Sniper rifle is a fictional, hoax weapon devised by Jakob Salomon Boeskov (da:Jakob Salomon Boeskov), a Danish-Icelandish artist from New York. The ID Sniper shoots GPS chips, and the police force may tag persons with this rifle for later easy retrieval. It was produced by the fictional company "Empire North"

According to its specs, , "It will feel like a mosquito-bite lasting a fraction of a second. At the same time a digital camcorder with a zoom-lense fitted within the scope will take a high-resolution picture of the target. This picture will be stored on a memory card for later image-analysis."

The design was presented in 2002 in Beijing at the China Police exhibition

Boeskov created an artistic project, "My Doomsday Weapon", an exhibition of the ID Sniper rifle

The news about the weapon was spread over the internet, and even Computerworld was hoaxed although they quickly withdrew the report.

On March 7th, 2007, "Engadget" posted images and news of the weapon, despite having denounced it as a hoax almost three years prior to the post.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Hexidecimal
Just wondering, is this going to affect us canadians? I'd rather not be watched by the FBI. Im assuming since its FBI, that we wont be affected. Hey, you never know. Anyone got any info for me?

It won't affect anyone. It's useless technology, there's too much information on the internet to reliably make heads or tails of, true they could finger someone at random but it would just mean the FBI would get sued like that falsely accused guy from Washington did.

Surely now they can arrest you for virtually anything now, lets just say you told some "to FOAD" and the FBI picked up on this you could be fined/punished for threatning behaviour? you might say it sarcastically but they won't know that. This law has opened up a very big dark hole that can be abused no end, what will stop them from planting evidance of people they don't like? say they could put a law in soon saying its illegal to speak ill of the goverment. They could just round up the people like the Nazi's and call them terrorists. This is seriously bad, what do most politicians know about the internet anyways? surely by them tracing everything your doing on your computer is the same as hacking, which is illegal, oh i forgot goverments are above the law. The main reason i don't like this law is they could slap on any new law and they charge alot of people over it on the internet.

No one has the right to see what anyone is doing on there computer, if there IP is found to be on a site thats illegal thats fair enough, but for people to have access to your emails, bank details is over the top what would stop one corrupt person working for them to just go "yoink" transfer a large amount of cash to there account and no one will be none the wiser. Like i said its all well and good coming up with these types of laws but whos enforcing the law upon them.

Originally posted by brill
Wow there sure is a lot of paranoia and sky is falling syndrome going on in this thread. Look its really easy. If your legit then yes who cares because if you think that Internet surfing is the only means by which profiling occurs its time to wake up. Bank records, medical records, academic records, driving records, etc. are readily available and usually much easier to collect.

If your on the dark side you just have to be a little creative. There are tools and methods available to make tracing very very difficult. Encryption is also a powerful ally. Is it inconvenient....sure but if you really want to maintain privacy do some reading and research.

Also it seems as though the taps are at this point only when a warrant is served so there would not be any longterm trending or data collection underway at the ISP level, its counter-productive(I'm talking about full data captures here). Problem is you won't know when that happens so your back to my previous suggestions.

Finally as some others have pointed out this is not really anything new its just a bit more specific. In my opinion if they have the tools in the first place (NSA level) then this wouldn't have been made public. So it stands to reason that the carnivores and echelons may not be quite the setup we perceived them to be. Petitions are a wasted effort this sounds like the Hans Blix approach to diplomacy as seen in Team America ("Or else we will be very angry with you... and we will write you a letter, telling you how angry we are."). Pointless.

brill

[edit on 14-5-2007 by brill]

You got that right, brill. There has been way, way, way too much chicken little paranoia floating around the boards lately.

To those asking if they will be affected outside the US:

Depending on the way they configure the filters on the software doing the sniffing of traffic yes it will grab your traffic provided you are trying to communicate with someone who has a monitoring system setup between you and them. However the theory goes that the filter will only keep packets that are relevant to the warrant, but that of course requires a certain degree of faith on our part.

Originally posted by estar
Surely now they can arrest you for virtually anything now, lets just say you told some "to FOAD" and the FBI picked up on this you could be fined/punished for threatning behaviour? you might say it sarcastically but they won't know that. This law has opened up a very big dark hole that can be abused no end, what will stop them from planting evidance of people they don't like? say they could put a law in soon saying its illegal to speak ill of the goverment. They could just round up the people like the Nazi's and call them terrorists. This is seriously bad, what do most politicians know about the internet anyways? surely by them tracing everything your doing on your computer is the same as hacking, which is illegal, oh i forgot goverments are above the law. The main reason i don't like this law is they could slap on any new law and they charge alot of people over it on the internet.

No one has the right to see what anyone is doing on there computer, if there IP is found to be on a site thats illegal thats fair enough, but for people to have access to your emails, bank details is over the top what would stop one corrupt person working for them to just go "yoink" transfer a large amount of cash to there account and no one will be none the wiser. Like i said its all well and good coming up with these types of laws but whos enforcing the law upon them.

Well, you see, that's just it, estar. As an enforcement mechanism this new policy has no value. If the FBI uses it they're just going to wind up losing trial after trial and probably a lot of $$$ thru lawsuits.

Originally posted by The Cyfre

Originally posted by Leyla
This is scary guys. Everything you do and say will be monitored online.

Incorrect. Everything you do and say CAN be monitored online.

Ok whatever! I got this on page one. I even contacted my internet provider to confirm it. Sorry guess you didn't see that huh. So please don't correct me if I get one word wrong. The fact is I didn't know about this deadline. That is why I'm upset. I don't break the law but I'm not too keen of having the FBI linked into my computer. I don't even know why your harping on me anyway. Why don't you harp to our congress instead?

I hate it that were loosing our rights and already there are already inserting chips into people, based on a company. We have no say so on our government anymore they now are in the steps on controlling us. And you harp on me for a mess up on one word? Cyfre I don't know you but I'm already irritated about this and you trying to get on my nerves isn't a good idea. So please step away.

[edit on 5/14/2007 by Leyla]

The point of the thread is not to restrict anyone's personal liberties. I don't think cigarettes should be made illegal. The point is that the federal government is blatantly picking and choosing when to apply it's laws. I know they do this in many cases but the popularity and harmful nature of cigarettes (as well as alcohol) make it an easier case to work with.

I don't think that using the personal submission process with the govt could actually cause cigarettes to become illegal. But it could raise a lot of discussions about the lax application as well as potentially helpful drugs like marijuana, which are currently restricted.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Don't get all excited, it's all going to get rolled back when Bush is gone.

Bush GONE

Ummmm no I don't think gone is applicable... its merely a question of which Bush is doing what

Started with Great Grand Daddy Prescot Bush...

ecosyn.us...

Marvin P. Bush, the president’s younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport.

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

"The Constitution is just a piece of paper" - G.W. Bush

NBC Mainstream News...





[edit on 14-5-2007 by zorgon]

America might get lucky if the media are forced to give Ron Paul the exposure he deserves, hes about the only person in the U.S who cares for freedom and the U.S constitution whos running for president.

Originally posted by AllSeeingI
Man this makes the Patriot Act seem warm and Fuzzy.

To all you police-state-loving people who claim that anyone who inst a criminal has nothing to worry about: you are COMPLETELEY WRONG!

This all-access pass to your internet search history, emails, downloads, and website history will be an overwhelming amount of data for the already understaffed FBI to analyze. The FBI will create and fine-tune profiles of suspicious individuals for computers to search for to make their job easier.

Just like people with the same name as someone on the FBI watch list getting hassled at the airports, this will cause innocent people to be targeted. These targeted individuals will likely include EVERYBODY ON ATS and other related conspiracy sites. Anyone questioning the government or talking about specifically flagged subjects such as 9-11 and terrorism will be recorded, watched, and labeled a dissenter or terrorist. All of our personal FBI files are going to get much fatter in the days to come whether you are a criminal or not, innocent or not. We are just unruly sheep to them and they are the wolves.


[edit on (5/14/07) by AllSeeingI]

Exactly and I get chewed out for getting one little word wrong. Labeled as dissenter or terrorist. Well I guess that pretty much covers all the members at ATS.

Do not take this oh everyone is going crazy because the sky is falling pfft. This is serious so you better wake up!

Well back in the old days of Telnet, myself and few friends had accounts everywhere and a little book that mapped out all the backbone connections so we could sign in and reroute around mainframes that were down. So we are talking early to mid 90's.

Way back then, the NSA monitored traffic. Various words would trigger monitoring flags. If enough of them were used in a short enough span an actual human operator would start viewing your conversation. You could always tell by the connection speed from a ping and increased lag.

We often tested them out of boredom and even started doing simple encoding on the words to test their monitoring such as adding letters to more obvious words. Sometimes before flagging their attention. They had a pretty good monitoring bot back then. I would figure that they have only improved over the years.

As for implicating people in internet crimes. Very easy to do. Trials go before a jury of people that could not get out of jury duty. It is very easy to change the date on a computer and download whatever you want to download. The timestamp goes by your computer's clock not the server that you downloaded from. Presented with evidence that you have been viewing kiddie porn since 1996 could be used to sway a jury.

As for using hotspots to keep a low profile, good idea except that IP addresses and account holder names are for dime novel detectives and hollywood movies. Real investigaions note the MAC address of your NIC. So pay cash and use a new wireless card everytime you go online. Dispose of used cards "properly" and never buy a card at the same place twice or make yourself descriptive when you do purchase. Still does not eliminate discovery, but it makes it much harder for them to track you. Of course you do know not to over use a User ID or Password for too many things.

In otherwords to remain off the radar don't use a trackable pattern, especially writing style, user name, MAC address, ISP connection, site visits, forums, chat rooms, email accounts. You have to leave as much speculation as to if you are a subject or just someone's Aunt Betty or Cousin Bill with your internet footprint.

I wonder if the fact that this coincides with the military putting an end to U Tube and MySpace for the troops has any correlations? Perhaps those are the "target"sites for now. Training grounds so to speak? We certainly cannot afford to loose any troops for breaking the law. Or maybe they want to narrow down the key words they are looking for. I am surprised that this has not gone mainstream news not that I watch that much of it.

@ Ahabstar

Not trying to veer off-topic with this but its dirt easy to spoof MAC addresses, in fact there are tools that take all the work out of it to the point you just plug in the new address and hit enter and ta-da you are now somebody else's computer :p

@ antar

It has nothing to do with the military prohibiting troops from using sites such as youtube and myspace; they are an employer like any other company and I know a lot of companies that don't want their people wasting time on such sites so they block them using software like websense.

What Helig said. This new policy is so far from fool-proof that it's really hard to see the FBI using it. My take is that the FBI is trying to fool the simple into thinking "they're always watching", i.e. to scare you into submission.

There are filters that would automatically trace certain words or names. So if you say something to the likes of harming someone with great -importance- or spreading -terrorist- propaganda and such...well...you know...

Originally posted by Ahabstar
In otherwords to remain off the radar don't use a trackable pattern, especially writing style, user name, MAC address, ISP connection, site visits, forums, chat rooms, email accounts. You have to leave as much speculation as to if you are a subject or just someone's Aunt Betty or Cousin Bill with your internet footprint.

interesting strategy.

i do the exact opposite. just like 'them'. i 'hide' in plain sight.
my life is an open book(to any interested secret service people), and i'm not going to run from tree to tree hiding in the shadows, when mostly it's grasslands, if you know what i mean.

the only way to stop the privacy scandal, is by fixing society. as my good friend, pink floyd said, "tear down the wall". (really, pink meant 'pyramid' when he said 'wall'.)

DISCLAIMER: i know there was no pink. and, i also know, now there is, dear mr. president.

Originally posted by Ahabstar
Well back in the old days of Telnet, myself and few friends had accounts everywhere and a little book that mapped out all the backbone connections so we could sign in and reroute around mainframes that were down. So we are talking early to mid 90's.

Are you referring to X.25 telenet ? or the telnet protocol ??

Originally posted by Ahabstar
As for implicating people in internet crimes. Very easy to do. Trials go before a jury of people that could not get out of jury duty. It is very easy to change the date on a computer and download whatever you want to download. The timestamp goes by your computer's clock not the server that you downloaded from. Presented with evidence that you have been viewing kiddie porn since 1996 could be used to sway a jury.

You do realize with packet captures that both absolute and relative timestamps are related to the sniffer host. Yes you can change your timestamp on your local PC, but if the data is port mirrored(captured) it will have every single bit recorded, including source MAC and source IP. The ISP would have a log of your account connecting and that associated information.

Originally posted by Ahabstar
As for using hotspots to keep a low profile, good idea except that IP addresses and account holder names are for dime novel detectives and hollywood movies. Real investigaions note the MAC address of your NIC. So pay cash and use a new wireless card everytime you go online. Dispose of used cards "properly" and never buy a card at the same place twice or make yourself descriptive when you do purchase. Still does not eliminate discovery, but it makes it much harder for them to track you.

Not true. You can easily spoof MAC's no need to buy anything here its all done in software. Hotspots are but one source and usually have some degree of authentication/security in place. There are so many public access-points its trivial to hide yourself. Plus if you really wanted to be difficult you would bounce around via several points to further complicate tracing.

brill