I've figured this place out! no wonder..

Ever wonder why the "Faith, Spirituality & Theology" forum, made for people to discuss those topics, is dominated by a sect of people who are anti-spirituality, anti-God by definition?

It's funny if you think about it. Why are Atheists running around making so many "hard arguements against God" and all these threads they create, when this is a Spirituality forum, and they by definition are anti-spirit?

This is like someone who does not play baseball, knowing little of baseball, coming and telling all the baseball players how they're so wrong for even playing baseball, and how it's going to affect them negatively in some form. or better yet, that the baseball players are responsible for all the world's problems.

I just didn't think someone who is against the idea of each person having a spirit, and an afterlife, could be so enthralled by a forum where spirituality is the main topic. I understand the concept and reason behind denunciation, but that is something you do and leave. It's not something you actively try to convince people of.

This is like a Democrat campaign volunteer sitting down with a small group of men from the Republican's club @ the local University and trying to change their mind about their political stance; its just not going to happen.

and if it does, it surely wont happen because of another person's words, but because of yourself. if you change, your opinions change too sometimes. so its all really a pointless and frivolous attempt at doing the impossibe.

which would be, converting believers into unbelievers. just as it's nearly impossible to convert educated atheists into believers, they only convert themselves. i converted myself. no one would have ever changed me in that sense, no man's words.

so what makes you guys (atheists) honestly think that your efforts are going unwasted here? because the only people who agree are those who agreed before what you wrote was ever written, and the only ones who disagree will have disagreed also before you even began to type. and no one is going to change on the basis of another, just themself, so what is the point?

i think they just feel left out.

i mean, theres a whole forum dedicated to this, and they deny the existence of all of it. thats a big pill to swallow, its kind of like .. all the joyous and nice things a faithful person may find to read here in this forum, those aren't touching to the unbeliever and so .. what does he really have.

just man and his logic, standing naked in the darkness.

refuting all claims, and claiming all potentialities..

quite the powerful being, with such potential wouldnt you say?

[edit on 5/13/2007 by runetang]

Athiests don't have a right to discuss these issues because we don't believe in them? How is that fair?

I'm sorry, but that post seemed very elitist to me. that sort of thing is one of the reasons I remain an unbeliever.

Interesting thought process...

I'll even give you a WATS...

My take on the subject is that for some unknown reason, Atheists consider it their goal, much like Non-Atheists, to convert others to their way of thinking..

Don't ask me why, I have no idea. They have no book to guide them, no concept of faith guidance and no religious requirements for testimony, yet still they do make the effort to discredit our faith when ever possible..

Anyway,

Good Post

Semper

I believe in something; I'm just not sure what it is yet.

But runetang your arrogant, judgmental brand of dogma has little appeal for me.

BTW a lot of Atheist/Agnostics have reached their conclusion in spiritual, Bible study and found it lacking. They may actually have a greater understanding of theology than any blind faith believer. You might actually learn something from them if your dogma can allow critical thinking. Or even thinking at all.

So am I disqualified to post in the Faith, Spirituality and Theology forum?

I don't think you have much figured out at all actually!

[edit on 13-5-2007 by whaaa]

There is also a huge forum for UFO's and not one has ever been truly seen.

God, Jesus and the whole spiritual shabang are just aliens from another century. I will leave Buddha alone as it's his birthday next week.

Some people are just born sceptical, others want to believe everything their told and some float aimlessly around in a state of complete confusion their entire lives. At the end of their days, do the happy outway the sad. If yes then it's all good If No then Maybe if you're not happy you get to have another go.

All gods are false gods, I truly beleive in the power of one sepreme being that has control over my destiny: ME.

Faith is point-blank gullibility. It has negative social value.

Spirituality is what you do that develops who you are, and while I have nothing against that, I don't see any spirituality amongst the True Christians. They are to busy fighting "spiritual warfare" which is another way of saying "fighting to mask the glaring holes in their belief system from their own intellects".

Theology is the question-begging presumption that god exists and the unending unsuccessful effort to try to prove it. If god existed, theology would be history. Questioning whether god exists or not isn't theology.

I agree with what you say runtetag, if I had it my way, i would send about 90% of the atheists on here to the fiery depths.

That's just me though, thank,err, God, that God is nothing like me.

He is infinitely more forgiving and loving than me.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
I agree with what you say runtetag, if I had it my way, i would send about 90% of the atheists on here to the fiery depths.

That's just me though, thank,err, God, that God is nothing like me.

He is infinitely more forgiving and loving than me.

It seems to me that you and WiseSheep and a few others mean exactly that non-believers are to be sent to Hell.

It also seems to me that the reason is your beliefs are indefensible. If your beliefs were justifiable, reasonable people would accept them.

Reasonable people have a hard time accepting that people will be sent to Hell for not believing something that is frankly hard to believe.

Originally posted by Columbus
It seems to me that you and WiseSheep and a few others mean exactly that non-believers are to be sent to Hell.

Where the hell did you get that from? Did you even read what I said?

It also seems to me that the reason is your beliefs are indefensible. If your beliefs were justifiable, reasonable people would accept them.

Trust me, you will accept them one day, if not in this life, then surely in the next, which is rapidly approaching.

Reasonable people have a hard time accepting that people will be sent to Hell for not believing something that is frankly hard to believe.

When you have the knowledge of right and wrong and actively use your free will to do wrong, that's what happens.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
Where the hell did you get that from? Did you even read what I said?

You don't put much effort into making sense and you should appreciate anyone even tries to understand what you mean.

If Grace is really the free gift you make it out to be, and God is really all-forgiving, there is no need for your kind of shenanigans, let alone Jesus.

Trust me, you will accept them one day, if not in this life, then surely in the next, which is rapidly approaching.

Sheer arrogance. You know, I've spent time explaining to everyone how I was once a Christian and I know The Bible cover-to-cover. I accepted them in the past. I came to knowledge that you currently lack that compels me overwhelmingly to reject Christianity. For one thing, there are blatant mind-control techniques right in Scripture! If that's not bondage, I don't know what is!

When you have the knowledge of right and wrong and actively use your free will to do wrong, that's what happens.

The Bible doesn't teach moral right and wrong, it teaches obedience to God's (men's) Will and that disobedience is Sin.

Sorry, misunderstood the message of the post. Edited and deleted post.

[edit on 14-5-2007 by ixiy]

Lol. You truly will be talked down to regardless of your actions if the person doesn't like your opinions. This i've learned from this thread. I knew it before but everyone has made it clear once again. Attack the faith, attack those who have it, frame them as bad people, frame them as dumb people, frame them as elitist, just frame them and stick them on the wall, whatever you do make sure you frame them in each post and every reply.

Does that not get old, arguing against it? I mean, I have strong opinions about politics too, but I'm not going to PTS and having "super-debates" amongst the right and left wingers, battling each other, blaming each other, framing each other. Because I see it as pointless. Internet arguments tend to be pointless in the end, although having good intent, they never get the job done do they? Do the posts ever really make an atheist believe, or make a believer not? I haven't seen any of it.

Plus, you guys have me misinterpreted. It's perfectly okay and normal and right and all else for atheists to squat in this forum and make a majority of the threads, and a majority of the replies. Nobody owns the forums, except for the guy who pays the bills. All I was saying was that shouldn't denunciation of God and Religion be more of an action, then say.. a bored-time hobby?

I just don't like the fact that believers can't even really discuss Religion, Spirituality, Theology etc anymore in here, without people coming into said thread and adding stupid things to it, trying to create a debate, stir up trouble amongst the readers of that thread, so that they'll entertain whatever argument your trying to start. It takes away from the thread, and then it takes the people who would be replying away too. It takes replies and turns them into debates spun at you, the instigator in question. I would think if you truly were an atheist, you'd also hopefully be smart enough to realize, like I do, that theres nobody to convert here, nobody to turn into an atheist, nobody to turn into a believer of monotheism. So the efforts are pointless after the first couple times and then start to repeat themselves. The forum gets filled up with posts of a similar context, all basically started by Atheists with the main topic being "God doesnt exist / Afterlife doesn't exist / Bible is not true" etc, if they are taking a jab at Christianity.


*continued in next post*

[edit on 5/14/2007 by runetang]

*continued from previous post*

You know, my girlfriend is very atheist like, she doesn't know what to believe she says, but when it comes to fundamentalist christians trying to 'convert' her, or those that cause a scene in public places, OR those lovely evangelists on television we all know and love(lol); she gets all angry and pissy. And this is how she has a negative opinion on those. Before.. it was simply "Christians", she'd lump it all together like alot of the Atheists around here do, which is really ignorant actually. And the reason she'd do that is b/c all she saw and heard were the loudest, the shiniest, in other words, the fakes and the fundamentalists.

The crazies.. people like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. And those kind of so called preachers actually drive a wedge in between normal, rational Christians, and Atheists. They make such outlandish claims and those who don't believe assume that those who DO are also believing this crap coming out of this man's mouth. And we dont. So i had to explain that to her and it was hard to get through at first, but now she understands quite clearly. Now when we goto the beach on a weekend night she may try to get me to openly debate this/these fundamentalist christian crazies that like to quote leviticus and utter crap like that. They like to stand out there and preach and they look / sound dumb. But i walk out from the crowd of those aligned against the preacher, atheists and believers alike, and I swing my sword which is my tongue and my knowledge of God.

I'm just saying, it's not as simple as many try to make it seem; and many of the Atheists will cite things that bother them the most, and these things are often of a fundamentalist nature to begin with. In other words, the "Good Christians" here don't agree with those Fundamentalists, and we dont honor or acknolwedge their words If we did, we'd call for the assassination of Chavez. We'd make other *completely* retarded ideas come forth, it would be so trifling.. and I'd be ashamed to even be in this forum. But im glad this isn't the case.

It's just that Atheists are the majority here in the good ole spirituality forum. I understand that skeptics will be in the UFO forum, disclaiming or discrediting claims or UFO sight / contact / existence, much like they are here in this forum, discrediting the Bible and what not. It doesn't bother me that you're here, it bothers me that you're the majority here, in a forum that has mainly always been used as a place where believers discussed their ideas and thoughts. No longer can this be the case, and I've noticed regulars who are now missing from the forum. I cant help but think it's from the majority of anti-spiritual posts here, I've noticed myself posting less often, making less threads, on this forum, for the same reasons. I come here and what do I see? A bunch of crap like "uhh..God is evil! but he doesn't exist.. uhh.. " and "Jesus was a psychadelic killa!" and other anti spiritual posts. These are exampels i made up, but theyre damn close to the reality of it.

All im saying, is that your taking away a place where people could talk about something in peace without a big mess on the forum, making it confusing to find old replies / topics and such. And also, alot of regular posters are now mysteriously missing, as I find myself posting less as well lately. It's because this forum is being turned into the "Atheist & Evolutionary" forum instead of it's original name and purpose.

Your mucking up the waters of the only place we have to bathe. Now why you wanna go and do that huh love? Now why you wanna go n' do that, n' do that?

Come ON her my people! lol wait, thats not it..
Come OUT OF HER my people! yeah thats the one.

[edit on 5/14/2007 by runetang]

Originally posted by runetang
Internet arguments tend to be pointless in the end, although having good intent, they never get the job done do they? Do the posts ever really make an atheist believe, or make a believer not? I haven't seen any of it.

And you know it...

heh

[edit on 14-5-2007 by melatonin]

I understand what you are saying runetang. Do UFOs exists? I don't know but if the people in the UFO forum want to spend their days discussing something that no one has proof of then why do I care.

There is something to Chrisitanity. Why do so many people put so much effort into disproving something that they don't believe in to begin with? Personally I believe that atheist are here just trying to convice themself that they are right. If they had already done so then they would have moved on. Unfortunately this has the result of sidetracking most Faith and theology threads into a "Prove there is a god" mode.

If you started a thread to discuss which exact hill Jesus was crucified on, members would jump in with a "Jesus didn't exist comment". Atheist should just face the fact that Christians are just animals who haven't evolved as much as the rest of society. We're just raving lunitics. If they actually believed that they wouldn't comment. So then what are we to think of them? Obviously they need help choosing a side.

Funny, it seems to me that the Christians are mostly here to prove to themselves that there really is a god.

We athiests have as much right to discuss your god as you do. If you don't want us debating the issue with you, then keep it in your home and your church where it belongs. If you put it out in public we are going to question it because it makes no sense to us.

So you say we are here trying to derail your own faiths, but if your faith was that strong, why should that bother you? If your faith was pure, who cares if there are naysayers here as well?

The internet belongs to all of us. If you want a forum the athiests can't go to, then create your own, password protect it, and ban those of us who don't agree with you.

[sarcasm]Oh, how very American. Exclude those who don't believe with you because you're threatened by them.[/sarcasm]

Athiests also have a belief about god, i.e., that he does not exist. We have the same rights you do to believe or disbelieve, and to discuss our disbelief. Your telling us we don't have a right to post in this forum is YOU doing to US what you accuse us of doing to you: trying to convince us that we are not right and don't have a right to our opinions.

Every time I read a thread like this it makes me all the gladder that I am rational, credulous and capable of seeing through the hype of an outdated, antiquated, nonsensical, self-contradictory god.

Good luck with your hate. I thought you Christians were supposed to love everyone, even if they didn't believe the same as you, but then I've noticed a lot of people who post negative things about athiests aren't Christians in the sense of the word as I understand it. For whatever odd reason, some Christians think that Chrisitanity = hating those who are different.

If your Jesus was in a grave, he'd be spinning in it. :shk:

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
Good luck with your hate.

The only hate I have is for off topic posts such as in the example I gave above. Otherwise I'm just amused. I think you're reading more out of this than exists. No one is ascribing hate to any group of individuals here.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
I agree with what you say runtetag, if I had it my way, i would send about 90% of the atheists on here to the fiery depths.

This strikes me as hateful.

Exclusion is hateful and this whole thread is about exclusion because we don't agree with certain people on the subject of god.

So are you particular Christians in this thread wishing to exclude just the athiests, or everyone who doesn't believe in your particular brand of god? Muslims, Hindus, shamans, Zoroastrians, etc. need not apply also?

this forum isn't exactly "dominated" by non-theists. well, unless you're saying we tend to dominate the arguments, which is true.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
I agree with what you say runtetag, if I had it my way, i would send about 90% of the atheists on here to the fiery depths.

thehumbleone,


Thank you for reminding me why I'm not a Christian anymore.