Should The Poor Be Sterilized

Well then why don't we sterilize the well to do, especially in America since they obviously use up far more of the resources of this planet per person than anyone else does? Or is this a thread with the idea of making the world safe for the well off?

This thread is not about using up resources. Africa has plenty of resources, mostly undeveloped.

This thread is about bring children into a world where they will live a miserable life of suffering and starvation.

So What You are Saying is:

We declare marshall Law, declare Africa a territory. Show them how to make food, utilize resources, other than slave labor for blood diamonds. Make them the 51st state or move out Iraqi style?

This is probably the only way any changes could be made. Anytime one of their own tries he quickly killed by a fanatic, who inturn sucks the $ dry buying VCR's and rocket launchers.

Originally posted by grover
Well then why don't we sterilize the well to do, especially in America since they obviously use up far more of the resources of this planet per person than anyone else does? Or is this a thread with the idea of making the world safe for the well off?

No this is a thread about the quality of life, of mothers, and the children they can actually raise until adulthood.

In fact, seeing that men refuse to even consider wearing condoms, and are callously getting these women pregnant, and then walking away to get other women pregnant, bottom line:

This thread is about the liberation of African women.

Liberation from being baby machines, and having to be a slave to child rearing!

Liberation from being made to walk hundreds of miles across a desert, with no food and water, and 5 mouthes to feed, seeing their children starve to death.

Liberation from seeing their children murdered, or conscripted into militia service at the ages of 9 - 14 years old, and taught to kill their own families, while their rebel masters stand around laughing.

Liberation from seeing their daughters raped, only to bare more children concieved through violence.

Originally posted by Royal76
So What You are Saying is:

We declare marshall Law, declare Africa a territory. Show them how to make food, utilize resources, other than slave labor for blood diamonds. Make them the 51st state or move out Iraqi style?

This is probably the only way any changes could be made. Anytime one of their own tries he quickly killed by a fanatic, who inturn sucks the $ dry buying VCR's and rocket launchers.

Actually the problem is, nobody really gives a damn!

And the rest of the civilized world just prefes to wait it out, until they're all dead, or enough to turn the viables into slave labor - to mine the natural resorces.

Or put up hotels and casinos, and shopping malls, creating a service based society with outside labor.

If they could get ahold of their overpopulation problem now, they just might have a chance for a future. But their leaders have sold them out. Thus the cleansing will continue, and the babies will continue to pop out.

The problem is simply this:

We have no jurisdiction over anything in Africa.

Sorry. And even if we did, it's a gross violation of rights. I would immediately revolt against any government that did such a moronic thing.

And who are you to decide thats what I want to know. Such authoritarian ideas have been tried before and not just by dictatorships... we tried with with the mentally and physically retarded and the system was abused... no matter your justification its wrong. Its playing god with peoples lives.

Originally posted by grover
And who are you to decide thats what I want to know. Such authoritarian ideas have been tried before and not just by dictatorships... we tried with with the mentally and physically retarded and the system was abused... no matter your justification its wrong. Its playing god with peoples lives.

Please! We play god with people's lives every day. In fact, on earth, I don't believe anyone has ever seen God come down and run a government. Men/women act as God's agents here on earth.

Good or bad, that's the system.

And what better way to utilize a god complex, then getting into people's bedrooms?

The church has been telling us god cares about who we're sleeping with for years, why not take it a step further and decide who gets to have children, and who doesn't?

By the way, you'll all be happy to know that I will stop picking on Africa exclusively, because I am now offically adding Japan to the list of countries in which some form of sterilization should be used, after reading this article:

"Japan's first 'baby hatch' opens to controversy"
www.breitbart.com...

"Women of Japan, listen up! Don't drop your children off at hatcheries, because you were too lazy to close your legs, and yo man didn't have his sock on. Submit to sterilization, and save everyone the agita of raising your unwanted children."

Originally posted by eyespy2

Originally posted by grover
And who are you to decide thats what I want to know. Such authoritarian ideas have been tried before and not just by dictatorships... we tried with with the mentally and physically retarded and the system was abused... no matter your justification its wrong. Its playing god with peoples lives.

Please! We play god with people's lives every day. In fact, on earth, I don't believe anyone has ever seen God come down and run a government. Men/women act as God's agents here on earth.

Good or bad, that's the system.

And what better way to utilize a god complex, then getting into people's bedrooms?

The church has been telling us god cares about who we're sleeping with for years, why not take it a step further and decide who gets to have children, and who doesn't?

By the way, you'll all be happy to know that I will stop picking on Africa exclusively, because I am now offically adding Japan to the list of countries in which some form of sterilization should be used, after reading this article:

"Japan's first 'baby hatch' opens to controversy"
www.breitbart.com...

"Women of Japan, listen up! Don't drop your children off at hatcheries, because you were too lazy to close your legs, and yo man didn't have his sock on. Submit to sterilization, and save everyone the agita of raising your unwanted children."

You are still wrong.

Africa is a good example of where the UN should be involved, if the UN were an effective organization. A co-ordination of all nations united to solve a major problem of human suffering.

But the UN is incapable of co-ordinating and carrying out such a mission. As a matter of fact, in the few cases where they have gotten involved, they turned out to be a part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

If the US were to tackle the problem unilaterally, they would be accused of imperialism.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Africa is a good example of where the UN should be involved, if the UN were an effective organization. A co-ordination of all nations united to solve a major problem of human suffering.

But the UN is incapable of co-ordinating and carrying out such a mission. As a matter of fact, in the few cases where they have gotten involved, they turned out to be a part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

If the US were to tackle the problem unilaterally, they would be accused of imperialism.

That's the problem. You can't force something upon people. They have to set up their own government, we can't do it for them...

That is true. We have no right to determine what type of government they live under. But do we have a responsibility to ensure that they do not have to suffer genocide?

The problem is, they have no chance of choosing a style of government, as long as they are under the rule of the criminal murderers who have taken over the countryside. They are uneducated, actually illiterate, with none of the basic elements such as a unifying language. They are subject to whatever evils are visited upon their heads.

Originally posted by jsobecky
That is true. We have no right to determine what type of government they live under. But do we have a responsibility to ensure that they do not have to suffer genocide?

The problem is, they have no chance of choosing a style of government, as long as they are under the rule of the criminal murderers who have taken over the countryside. They are uneducated, actually illiterate, with none of the basic elements such as a unifying language. They are subject to whatever evils are visited upon their heads.

That's not our responsibility. A government only exists to protect the welfare of its people, not others'. They are uneducated and illiterate, and therefore have a lot of development to go through before they are capable of governing themselves. By doing their job for them, you're only making it worse. You can't let guilt override your judgment, no matter how tempting it is.

[edit on 10-5-2007 by Johnmike]

Originally posted by Johnmike

That's not our responsibility. A government only exists to protect the welfare of its people, not others'. They are uneducated and illiterate, and therefore have a lot of development to go through before they are capable of governing themselves. By doing their job for them, you're only making it worse. You can't let guilt override your judgment, no matter how tempting it is.

[edit on 10-5-2007 by Johnmike]

Yes but they have no government and no chance of forming one as long as they are subject to genocidal rulers.

Turning a blind eye to their suffering is not what we should do. We don't "owe" them anything, true, but as the human race we should not allow murderers to ravage a country.

If a foreign group were to invade one of our allies, such as Great Britain, don't you think we would react?

You don't think this is a job for the UN?

[edit on 10-5-2007 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by Johnmike

That's not our responsibility. A government only exists to protect the welfare of its people, not others'. They are uneducated and illiterate, and therefore have a lot of development to go through before they are capable of governing themselves. By doing their job for them, you're only making it worse. You can't let guilt override your judgment, no matter how tempting it is.

[edit on 10-5-2007 by Johnmike]

Yes but they have no government and no chance of forming one as long as they are subject to genocidal rulers.

Turning a blind eye to their suffering is not what we should do. We don't "owe" them anything, true, but as the human race we should not allow murderers to ravage a country.

If a foreign group were to invade one of our allies, such as Great Britain, don't you think we would react?

You don't think this is a job for the UN?

[edit on 10-5-2007 by jsobecky]

It should be a job for the UN. Actually this is about the only type of situation where the UN should have any responsibility at all. Under these circumstances I could see a multi-national military force organized to go in and obliterate any and all so called governments that are practicing genocide or even just not making any attempt to bring their countries out of the mess they are in. And I mean obliterate.

But like you posted earlier they are incapable of handling it. In a perfect world this could happen. You could then work on education, industrialization, etc. It's not a perfect world, however, because any force put together would almost certainly break apart almost instantly after any military action, and every government involved would almost certainly begin trying to get what they feel is rightfully theirs for the "good work" they had done. And then who decides what type of governments then follow?

I say save the talk of sterilization until you at least start by utterly destroying the warlords and genocidal maniacs that are wreaking havoc on the poor of that unfortunate continent.

All that being said, I don't think it will happen anytime in the near future. My guess is sterilization or not, we're going to see the continent of Africa reach a critical mass, where the combination of violence, starvation, and disease just blows the continent apart. AIDS is already endemic, malaria, sleeping sickness, you get the drift. How long until some other emerging fast spreading disease, a new strain of flu or whatever, rips through those impoverished heavily populated areas and literally kills millions in a matter of several years.

If it happens there, expect it in the slums of Brazil, Mexico, and the like. That will be the ultimate sterilization.

Originally posted by wagnerian21
You know, I honestly think the premise of the original question is a misnomer.

I will say it comes from an honorable perspective, though- no child should be forced to suffer. I agree with that 100% and I`ve stated so in other threads. However, it does happen that the children of the wealthy suffer too, so perhaps the misnomer is the focus on income, rather than the very simple reality of the problem, which is NEGLECT.

If a 'parent' (and I use that term in the biological sense only) is so stupid, self-centered, and inconsiderate as to allow their child to go without the necessities of living, regardless of the parent`s income level, that child should be removed from their 'care' and placed in a situation that would allow the child to thrive. Perhaps we should institute a policy of mandatory birth control in cases where a parent has already been convicted of neglecting their child, and if they continue to behave in the same fashion, harming another child, then yes, I agree they should be sterilized. Because every child deserves a loving parent.

Christ, why do I even bother???

It`s pretty obvious that there are a lot of people on this forum who have no interest in promoting rational discussion about serious issues but rather would rather use the forum as a venue to push their ideologies.

Nobody had a damned thing to say about a rational point, but I see a whole lot of bitching and moaning about the evils of racism STILL going on in this thread.

Nobody`s buying it, kiddies.

[edit on 11-5-2007 by wagnerian21]

Originally posted by wagnerian21

It`s pretty obvious that there are a lot of people on this forum who have no interest in promoting rational discussion about serious issues but rather would rather use the forum as a venue to push their ideologies.

Nobody had a damned thing to say about a rational point, but I see a whole lot of bitching and moaning about the evils of racism STILL going on in this thread.

Nobody`s buying it, kiddies.

[edit on 11-5-2007 by wagnerian21]

The point is that the sterilisation of the poor has been a social instrument, and in retrospect has been reviled as an example of the worst impulses of man being put forth with all the best of intentions. It comes across as a modern-day 'Modest Proposal". Right up there with forced lobotomies to cure women of 'hysteria'.

The OP is the one applying its potential great benefits to Africa and that puts colour to it because there ain't nobody here apparently...with all their good will...seeking out white christian men to spay. You know...for the good of the children...

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
The point is that the sterilisation of the poor has been a social instrument, and in retrospect has been reviled as an example of the worst impulses of man being put forth with all the best of intentions. It comes across as a modern-day 'Modest Proposal". Right up there with forced lobotomies to cure women of 'hysteria'.

The OP is the one applying its potential great benefits to Africa and that puts colour to it because there ain't nobody here apparently...with all their good will...seeking out white christian men to spay. You know...for the good of the children...

If white Christian men were behaving like the Africans, I would add them to the list.

You see, I'm not an ideological coward. The last thing I want... really, is to see a person's basic human dignity taken from them.

But not one of you has come up with a solution that's better then sterilization. I see a lot of Nazi, and Hitler comparisons, talk about adding various groups to the list, like the rich - a lot of outrage and hysteria over how evil I am for coming up with such an idea, but not a single naysayer has come up with an alternative workable solution.

Talk of the UN, or other countries getting involved to help, or Bono, Madonna, Angelina Joleen, or more fighting with warlords, forget it! it ain't going to happen. Not now, not in the near future.

Stop talking about your American rights, or pulling yourselves up by the bootstraps in this land of pleasant living. It's all deflection.

A race of people on this planet have become irresponsible breeding machines in an environment that Satan himself couldn't have done a better creating. This is the situation.

Children are dying because of it. Decent women are being turned into breeders creating a sub-race of humanoids the world refers to as rebels. Rebels who have committed some of the most henious acts against women and children this world has ever seen. Rebels who cut off the hands and feet of children, out of spite, to send a message!Rebels who readily admit to murdering and eating pigmies to gain greater power.

You're all either A. completely uninformed about the situation, B. it's too much for you to deal with, or C. you're cowards, unwilling to make the tough decisions, so you hide behind all this hyperbole.

Originally posted by eyespy2
The last thing I want... really, is to see a person's basic human dignity taken from them.

A race of people on this planet have become irresponsible breeding machines...

Children are dying because of it. Decent women are being turned into breeders creating a sub-race of humanoids the world refers to as rebels.

Why don't you just fess up.... you don't give a rats ass about those women and children. At the heart of your argument is just plain old racism hiding behind a phony concern for them. Talk about being a coward. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it must be a racist pretending he isn't and still spouting the same old bull crap.

Originally posted by grover

Why don't you just fess up.... you don't give a rats ass about those women and children. At the heart of your argument is just plain old racism hiding behind a phony concern for them. Talk about being a coward. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it must be a racist pretending he isn't and still spouting the same old bull crap.

Poor, poor grover,

Is that the best you can do? Call me a racist? You can't for the life of you imagine an intelligent argument to support your views, so therefore, I must be an uncaring racist, and coward?

Please! If you want to attack me fine! But you don't know me. I could be, for all you know, directly off the boat from Darfur. Not saying I am. But I could have witnessed the autrocities first hand and became horrified by what I saw. How do you know? To you I'm eyespy2. And all I have talked about during this entire discussion is my concern for the living.

Passion comes from experience. What have you experienced in your life? How many times have you seen, and smelled the stench of death? Have you seen mass graves - mounds of dirt, less than 3 feet long, in which the bodies of so many children have been buried. And the women burying the bodies, are pregnant.

They might as well, just deliver the babies into the ground.

Do you realize that so many people have died in some parts of the continent of Africa that when you kick up the dust - walking, you are actually breathing in fine particles of human remains mixed with the air? Think about that.

No, grovster, if you want to see a real coward, perhaps you should look in a mirror, because at the end of the day, when a coward has nothing else left, has become intellectually bankrupt, he turns to name calling and insults.

But I will suffer your insults gladly, because I am passionate about saving the lives of the living, at the expense of the so-called rights of the ignorant, and the missinformed.