This is What 9/11 Truth is Up Against.

LC2 getting main stream media attention is counter productive to the movement because of all the BS in it, but it was inevitable that backlash against it(LC2) would be attractive to the media for just this reason. The media loves controversy! Looking foreward to your new thread, InfinityO'Reilly

Originally posted by infinityoreilly
LC2 getting main stream media attention is counter productive to the movement because of all the BS in it

That's exactly my point!
Now, we both understand that the media is not interested in showing us the truth. We both understand that they love to make us all look like "thin foil conspiracy kooks". And we certainly understand that rather then debating the real issues, the media would rather debate a straw man.

Well, that's exactly what Avery is, a straw man.
The media could interview a serious looking guy with a tie on, a guy with a few letters in front of his name, a guy like Jim Fetzer or Steven Jones for example.
They could discuss a serious well done documentary like 9/11 mysteries too.

But instead, they interview a teenager looking guy wearing a freakin' t-shirt.
Now, i have to say, I am a construction worker but if I was interviewed on TV I would certainly slap on a tie for god's sakes or at the very least a clean shirt.

But Avery is always shown with a t-shirt on, in a poorly lit room with bad background, you pit that against a bunch of engineers with letters to their name in their fancy offices and Avery looks like an idiot before he even opens his mouth.

Just look here for an example of what I mean:
www.liveleak.com...
A poorly lit room, a freakin' T-shirt and Avery is the youngest of all the people interviewed.

They don't have to debate the truth movement, they only have to plant a clown into the truth movement and elect that clown as the poster boy of the truth movement - the perfect straw man!

Now imagine this if you will: imagine I tell you that my name is Guy and I am 39 years old. You believe me right? Of course you believe me, I have no reasons to lie about that.

Now imagine I tell you that my name is Guy, I am 39 years old and I screwed J-Lo last night.

You see what I have done here? I simply injected one obvious lie between two true statements and all of a sudden you realize that i am lying about the J-Lo thing, so you start to thing I might be lying about my name and age as well.

You don't have to tell lies all the time when you are a good disinfo agent, you only need to insert a lie in the truth to make the whole thing appear like a lie.

You only need to pour a single cup of crap in a vast of caviar to ruin the whole batch of caviar.

You and I are the caviar and Avery is the cup of crap.
That's what Avery is, a freakin' CUP OF CRAP!

When you start to study the evidences and the testimonies Avery uses, you realize that so much of it is ridiculous, fake or very thin evidence - the J-Lo lies mixed into the true statements.

I knew all along that they would infiltrate us and build themselves a straw man they can easily defeat. LooseCrap and In Plane Sight are just that, straw men.

They are traitors and they belong at the end of a rope right next to Bush and Dick and Rummy.

i haven't seen either loose change.
i do think that raising the general awareness is a good thing, even if the truth is tainted with strawmen. i think the greater truth is TOO GREAT to be the proverbial baby that gets thrown out with the bathwater.
for example, i think that judy woods space beams, and holographic planes are not just kooky, but distinctly real possibilities. not 'the only answer', but 'a possibility'.

however, i think the big mistake is getting married to ideas too early. i find simple explosives more likely, although randomly burned out cars, and eyewitness reports of flashes and sparks makes me wonder if something more exotic wasn't used. ditto the strangeness of elevated tritium levels.
i AM married to the idea that there was an obvious cover-up, and obvious media censorship. because, it is a plain as day, as blue as the sky, and as wet as water. even the EPA(or whatever the american air quality organisation is called) determined the air to be 'SAFE', when in fact it was DEADLY and has already killed some rescue and clean-up workers.

i am not married to any theories about how 'they' pulled it off. it was a huge covert operation with an unlimited budget. i think dylan avery has done a fabulous job of getting people to open their eyes and minds. if he's wrong about some stuff, and even if he's outright TRYING to do what pepe accuses him of, it will not change the fact that people are looking at INFORMATION and not PERSONALITIES when it comes to discovering 911 truth.

it's like that great picture that says a thousand words. we want more REDS.
i personally think that infighting is a bigger disservice to the truth movement than having some theories which later are proven to be wrong. we are trying to fit information to a theory, and the information is both scarce, and at times, conflicting(i blame the PLANTED witnesses, LOL!).

as far as virgin airlines pulling the video, i don't know why they were ever going to show it in the first place. it's like when "airport" movies came out. it's just not cool to show footage of crashing planes on a flight. some people are already terrified of flying.

Originally posted by billybob
i haven't seen either loose change.

Good for you. It's all loose-crap.

i do think that raising the general awareness is a good thing, even if the truth is tainted with strawmen.

I little knowledge is a dangerous thing. These straw men are there for a reason and they are not a beneficial thing, it's not a good thing.

i think the greater truth is TOO GREAT to be the proverbial baby that gets thrown out with the bathwater.

Waaa?

for example, i think that judy woods space beams, and holographic planes are not just kooky, but distinctly real possibilities. not 'the only answer', but 'a possibility'.

Those holograms, space beams and lizards are the OBVIOUS straw men, some are more clever and hypocrite.

however, i think the big mistake is getting married to ideas too early.

Bingo! keeping an open mind and being willing to question and revise our own beliefs constantly is our greatest tool.

i think dylan avery has done a fabulous job of getting people to open their eyes and minds.

I think he did a great job of erecting himself as the perfect straw man and stirring a lot of people in the wrong direction.

if he's wrong about some stuff, and even if he's outright TRYING to do what pepe accuses him of, it will not change the fact that people are looking at INFORMATION and not PERSONALITIES when it comes to discovering 911 truth.

yeah, people will look at the information but what if that information is downright false and specificly aimed at stirring people in the wrong direction?

it's like that great picture that says a thousand words. we want more REDS.

Yes we do want more reds and we also need to know what we are up against, we need to know where the enemy is. We can't fight a war if we don't know who we are fighting and Avery is precisely trying to hide who the real enemy is.

i personally think that infighting is a bigger disservice to the truth movement than having some theories which later are proven to be wrong.

So if i see a traitor amongst our ranks, I should shut up by fear of creating infightings? .......NOT!
Attacking loose-crap and Avery is not infighting because he is not one of us, he is the enemy, or at least he is a tool of the enemy. Either he is a useful idiot or a disinfo agent. I opt for the later and the evidence proves it too.

i blame the PLANTED witnesses, LOL!).

Me too but I also blame the planted disinfo agents.

as far as virgin airlines pulling the video, i don't know why they were ever going to show it in the first place. it's like when "airport" movies came out. it's just not cool to show footage of crashing planes on a flight. some people are already terrified of flying.

I agree with you, I think this story was planted to make Avery look like he is on our side. Surely if they can create the illusion that his movie is being suppressed and censored then he looks all the more like one of the good guys.

A hijacking 9/11 conspiracy movie is a terrible idea inside a flight, I think the idea is simply to make loose-crap look like a poster boy of the truth movement, that's all. just an other way of creating more publicity for it.
You will NEVER hear a story like this about 9/11 Mysteries, they don't want to generate publicity for 9/11 Mysteries, be it good or bad publicity.

well, pepe, you might be right. i certainly understand and empathize with your feelings.
it's a tough nut, this age old all-seeing pyramid.
however, i have a weakness for giving the benefit of the doubt, and for forgiveness.
i forgive everyone for everything they ever did wrong.

why?
because that's what i want in return from society. i want to be able to make mistakes. even an avalanche of bad ones. and, then, when i see the light, i want to be able to forgive myself, and be welcomed home as the prodigal son was.

it's a jesus thing. i don't really believe in the official jesus story, but i believe every frickin' word attributed to him. them's some good words what leads to good livin'..

Is it called Loose crap?

So there are two versions or somthing?

Loose change 2 and Loose Crap 2
-
Maybe I dont want to know.

Loose Change and Loose Crap are one and the same.
I just call it that way because it reflects better the content and intent of the movie.

-
PepeLapew you have changed the title of the Video Loose change2 to Loose Crap2
- inside your head, and thats a fact (I just figured that out).

because it reflects better the content and intent of the movie?

Question:

PepeLapew: What is the intention of the Video in your opinion?

Or what do people who agree with PepeLapew think the intention is, in the video "Loose Change/Crap2"?

This took a crappy turn...

The point is:

1. Virgin decides to let viewers CHOOSE to see LC2 if they want.
2. Little NeoCon turds call and threaten them with a smear campaign if they do.
3. Virgin gives in instantly...
4. The turds blog is so full of vitriol, "winning" and propaganda techniques it sickens me.
5. Turds like these are hard "to yell louder than".

If LC2 was some sort of purposeful "strawman" why would the NeoCon turd sniffers be so concerned about it?

FYI - LC2 was RE-released to clean up some/most of the errors in the original production.

Loose Change was made by them when they were very young and not experienced. With Loose Change Final Cut they are setting out to put up a much stronger case.

I changed my mind on Virgin not showing the movie, I think it is a good thing. Because Final Cut will most likely be better and really an airplane isn't the place to be showing that kind of movie, it isn't fair to people who have a fear of flying IMHO. They can turn the movie off but then there is nothing really for them to do but sit there and be nervous.

The 9/11 truth movement maybe up against a lot of neo-cons and the like, but as long as the majority of the movement is about seeking the 'Truth' wherever it leads then it doesn't matter who the enemy is, as long as you have the truth on your side.

Originally posted by Pootie
They hate freedom... what about freedom of expression?

what about the FREEDOM of the people who were flying ... freedom not to be strapped into a chair with no escape all the while being forced to be subjected to propaganda and lies about America??

Guess it's only 'freedom' if it agrees with your agenda?

Originally posted by talisman
The 9/11 truth movement maybe up against a lot of neo-cons and the like...

'the like' .. you mean people who actually think about the facts of the situation instead of being emotionally steamrollered.

The so called 9/11 truth movement is up against FACTS.


[edit on 5/6/2007 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by Pootie
If LC2 was some sort of purposeful "strawman" why would the NeoCon turd sniffers be so concerned about it?

FYI - LC2 was RE-released to clean up some/most of the errors in the original production.

Whether intentional or not LC2 is a great tool for the Truth Movements detractors. It is my hope that with a bigger budget and more honest narration "Final Version" will come closer to 911 Mysteries. If I were doing it I would hire critics of the movement to help point out any straying from the facts and balance the delivery with any counter aguements when appropriate. Much like hiring Justice Roberts to help you prepare you gay rights case before going to the Supreme Court.

PS;Sorry Pootie for being part of the straying off topic. You have raised the freedom of speach issue here and my oppinion is both Virgin and the neocons are free to do what they want. It boils down to money, like the Don Imus equation, not nessasarily freedom of speach but fear of loosing money.

[edit on 5/6/2007 by infinityoreilly]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

what about the FREEDOM of the people who were flying ... freedom not to be strapped into a chair with no escape all the while being forced to be subjected to propaganda and lies about America??

When is the last time you flew? 1984? It is not an "in flight movie" you wear headphones and watch it on the seat back... no more invasive than if I am reading a Hustler next to you.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
The so called 9/11 truth movement is up against FACTS.
[edit on 5/6/2007 by FlyersFan]

What facts?

Even the NIST insists that their ever changing conclusions are not FACT and are only the most likely scenario in their minds.

So I ask you... what facts?

Originally posted by GwionXOne thing they all have in common--They are all based on unprovable fallacy.

And you can prove what, exactly? Which disputed aspects of the 'official' version of events can you prove?

As far as I can see, your belief in the 'official' version of events is founded upon equally unproven theories.

The biggest thing 9/11 Truth is up against is human nature.

The is no way the government could have pulled this off without someone talking. If this was a coordinated effort, it would have taken hundreds of people. Someone would have talked. Until that person shows up and is credible, they don't have a case.

Originally posted by RRconservative
The biggest thing 9/11 Truth is up against is human nature.

The is no way the government could have pulled this off without someone talking. If this was a coordinated effort, it would have taken hundreds of people. Someone would have talked. Until that person shows up and is credible, they don't have a case.

here's five important ones.

please peruse this as well

Originally posted by billybob

Originally posted by RRconservative
The biggest thing 9/11 Truth is up against is human nature.

The is no way the government could have pulled this off without someone talking. If this was a coordinated effort, it would have taken hundreds of people. Someone would have talked. Until that person shows up and is credible, they don't have a case.

here's five important ones.

please peruse this as well

Well, there's the five Raytheon employees who were responsible for installing remote control technology in the 4 airplanes .....but never mind, these guys don't count since they were all on board the planes.

Then there's always John O'Neill an FBI counter terrorist investigator who found a new job as chief of security of the WTC complex. But never mind him either, he started his new job on 9/10 at the towers and died the next day.

i think we can posthumously count frank martini, too.

these guys aren't EXACTLY whistleblowers, but they certainly let the cat out of the bag

rodriguez is one of the biggest heroes of the 21st century.

morgan reynolds

daniel ellsberg

russel tice

After Mark Felts acknowledged he was the Deep Throat informant of Watergate, I asked Ellsberg the effect this revelation could have on encouraging whistleblowers today. He said:

I always hoped Deep Throat would reveal himself while still alive, not posthumously. Then potential whistleblowers might be encouraged to do the same -- letting people see them and understand they did it for honorable, courageous reasons.

Felts was one of a dozen people with access to information the White House was lying. I think those other people need to ask themselves why they weren't Deep Throat, and how they justified not sharing that information with the world. We desperately need more like Felts right now. When a president embarrasses the country by getting us into a wrongful war -- and that obviously applies to the current president -- insiders who know should realize their highest loyalty is not to him. It is to the country, and especially to our troops in the field who wrongfully have been sent to war.

richard clarke

'credibility' is like beauty, ie. in the eyes of the beholder. my short list is a quick web search. there are always others being buried in the beast's avalanche of information.

RRconservative probably won't believe any of this until he sees it on Fox, CNN and PBS or until he reads it in the NY Times.

If the media doesn't report it, does it still exist?

Originally posted by PepeLapew
RRconservative probably won't believe any of this until he sees it on Fox, CNN and PBS or until he reads it in the NY Times.

If the media doesn't report it, does it still exist?

yes, i believe he's picked the wrong side of 'human nature' to focus on. i think apathy and inertia should be the first feature of humans truthseekers should grok.