Is John Lear Spreading Disinfo?

Originally posted by johnlear
It wasn't my intention to ridicule your physics or you. My intention is to show where your error is in using that physics to claim that the moon has only 16% or 24%, (depending on which one you are using) the gravity of the earth.

Once I can find your error its no big deal to work the math.

If you can find this error, which you think must be there, please be so kind and post it somewhere around here. I won't hold my breath, though.

I don't think you realize that the moon is a 'spaceship' and is towed around and placed into orbit wherever it is needed.

"That's not a moon, it's a space station" - and silly me thought that "Star Wars" was fiction!

However, I'm a bit disappointed about the "towed around". Was Amococo (Alien Moon Construction Company) unable to build a self-propelled moon-spaceship? I mean, even the Death Star didn't need to be towed, and we all know what a piece of cr*p that was (blew up after a single lucky hit)!

As a 'spaceship' its gravity is going to be considerably different than what you think.

Well, in fact I would have expected a spaceship to be not massive, but have some hollow room inside. Somewhere to go for the passengers, the cargo, etc. Therefore I had expected a spaceship to be lighter and having less gravity than "expected". On the other hand, I'm no moon-spacecraft engineer ...

So? Almost all moons in our solar system are in rotational lock with their respective planets. Were they all "artificially constructed"? Someone must have been very busy here

.

Many were and I agree with you someone has been very busy.

Are they all "spacecraft"? Do you think we could persuade Amococo to switch our "moon" for, say, Titan or Io? I mean, these moons look so much more interesting than our plain old grey one. Better yet, can we perhaps order an extra moon, possibly a small cheap one? Having only a single moon is a bit of a shame for any self-respecting planet - even dwarf-planet Pluto has at least three!

By the way, talking about artificial moons, space stations, and the Death Star ... I assume you are familiar with the Saturn moon "Mimas":

en.wikipedia.org...(moon)

I sure hope Earth it not on the list of targets for any upcoming test of their superlaser!

Regards
yf

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Disclaimer: The above post may include non-negligible amounts of sarcasm, irony and "tongue-in-cheek" remarks. Please adjust your relevant detectors accordingly. Thanks!

Originally posted by johnlear
I don't think you realize that the moon is a 'spaceship' and is towed around and placed into orbit wherever it is needed. As a 'spaceship' its gravity is going to be considerably different than what you think.

Gee, and all these years I thought the moon was natural! You mean we stuck an American Flag on someone elses spaceship?

The problem with this is that NASA's Moon Rocks where all composed of minerals, not metal. Since when have you known spacecraft to be made of rock?

Tim

Wow, what a wild thread. Kinda crazy how rich famous folk can troll a forum. It seems blatant in some areas. Other people on this forum get dragged through pits without providing proof for such claims.

Is there any of you that believe Bob Lazar has credibility while John Lear does not, and why? I'm just curious, because I don't believe Lear has much, but I have been interested in Lazar's claims. Are they working together or something?

Originally posted by laiguana
Is there any of you that believe Bob Lazar has credibility while John Lear does not, and why? I'm just curious, because I don't believe Lear has much, but I have been interested in Lazar's claims. Are they working together or something?

Yeah, maybe it's some joint bs disinfo manufacturing plant. Lazar has credentials which were "mysteriously" 'wiped from the records'. Hmm, I don't know, but it's food for thought.

It does seem as if it could be somewhat manufactured government disinfo perhaps?

I'm only asking questions and questions to deny ignorance, so please don't go off on one at me people.

[edit on 18-5-2007 by Xeros]

What I was more interested in knowing is if Lear and Lazar were working together and if there's information or evidence that they are.
As far as Lazar's background, I'm fully aware of the controversy and such. I don't believe Lear has much credibility due to some of the things I've read from him, but anyway...is he and Lazar buds or are they associated in any way?

Originally posted by laiguana
What I was more interested in knowing is if Lear and Lazar were working together and if there's information or evidence that they are.
As far as Lazar's background, I'm fully aware of the controversy and such. I don't believe Lear has much credibility due to some of the things I've read from him, but anyway...is he and Lazar buds or are they associated in any way?

Well apparently as I'm sure that John will tell you, he is friends with Lazar, and has stayed with him on occasion, I'm not sure that the freindship sounds too realistic as he won't answer (apparently) certain questions. Maybe you can add to this John. Are you more acquaintences or solid buddies? Johns background credibility is not in doubt however. Maybe there needs to be a dig deeper into this association?

[edit on 18-5-2007 by Xeros]

Originally posted by laiguana
Is there any of you that believe Bob Lazar has credibility while John Lear does not, and why? I'm just curious, because I don't believe Lear has much, but I have been interested in Lazar's claims. Are they working together or something?

John Lear doesn't really have any credibility. John's piggybacking on the famous "Lear" name. He just happens to be the son of the man who built the Learjet. Beyond that, John's just a Veitnam vet, and retired pilot who hangs out in UFO and conspiracy clubs bragging and spinning fantastic stories to get attention. None of John's ranting is meant to be taken seriously! Why do you think he has this at the bottom of Each post:

The above is my opinion and is intended to promote discussion. It is not represented as fact unless so stated.

John knows what he posting isn't true, and he even tells you that fact!

Now, as to Bob Lazar, Do yo really think the US government would let him rum around telling people about UFO's if he had been a real Scientist at Area 51?

Bob's a publicity hound, and John is just a retired pilot who runs around BS'ing people and telling wild tales! Any other questions?

Tim

Originally posted by laiguana
What I was more interested in knowing is if Lear and Lazar were working together and if there's information or evidence that they are.
As far as Lazar's background, I'm fully aware of the controversy and such. I don't believe Lear has much credibility due to some of the things I've read from him, but anyway...is he and Lazar buds or are they associated in any way?

John Lear played a major part in the publication and spread of Bob Lazar's UFO claims.

I'm sure Mr. Lear has already told the story a gazillion times on ATS, but I can't find a specific posting right now.

A very rough summary is on Wikipedia:
en.wikipedia.org...

Regards
yf

Nice thread specifically dedicated to attacking another forum member and his views. Hmm maybe we should start a "Get to know the over the top debunkers" thread. I can think of a few in here who would fit the bill easily.
The guy has beliefs as well as anyone else yet some guys or gals just want to take free shots at any chance. Same thing happened too Columbus as well as others who pushed the very small minded(yes you) know it all "we think" mainstreem scientific community. If they had their way we would still be living on a flat earth. Oh the irony of it all.
So yfxxx what exactly is space and explain to me exactly how it works.
You cant can you however you can ramble off lots of predetermined to be factual info that explains in nice round numbers how everything works?
My numbers tell me that some of you guys in here have way too much vinegar in your blood for me and the stench of self imposed superiority by another few just smells so bad its hardly tollerable. However both sides do deserve a say I just wish it could be less inflamitory and slanderous.
Oh well Carry on ladies.

Originally posted by VType
Nice thread specifically dedicated to attacking another forum member and his views. Hmm maybe we should start a "Get to know the over the top debunkers" thread. I can think of a few in here who would fit the bill easily.

Speaking of debunking, let's look at the definition of that word:

Debunkers are scientific skeptics who attempt to disprove and pursue what they consider to be false, unscientific, bizarre or abnormal claims. The ultimate intent of the debunking, according to some, is conclusively to disprove the validity of an event, theory, and/or phenomenon by exposing it as nonsense. According to Wiktionary, debunk means To discredit, or expose to ridicule the falsehood or the exaggerated claims of something.

So if we're talking about people using science, logic, common sense, and basic reson to disprove false and unscientific claims. I might just fit your definition. I consider it part of denying ignorance.

So if this is your definition, sign me up!

Tim

Originally posted by VType
Nice thread specifically dedicated to attacking another forum member and his views. Hmm maybe we should start a "Get to know the over the top debunkers" thread. I can think of a few in here who would fit the bill easily.

This thread was not dedicated to attacking lol. It was dedicated to querying someone who is also member of ats.

Originally posted by VType
The guy has beliefs as well as anyone else yet some guys or gals just want to take free shots at any chance. Same thing happened too Columbus as well as others who pushed the very small minded(yes you) know it all "we think" mainstreem scientific community.

I hope that you are not referring to me as I have no scientific credentials or have ever pretended to and am open to the paranormal after experiencing some very strange things. This is why I like to ask questions. Again, I'm trying, trying ffs to deny ignorance.

Originally posted by VType
My numbers tell me that some of you guys in here have way too much vinegar in your blood for me and the stench of self imposed superiority by another few just smells so bad its hardly tollerable

You seem like a pretty hate filled individual, I'm not sure why you are here. I'm sure you feel superior in your willfull ignorance though.

Originally posted by VType
Carry on ladies.

Whatever child lolololol

If you cannot be open to things, wether they disagree with some things you may or may not hold close, then maybe you should be somewhere else.

I'd love to realise that I've taken a wrong turn in questioning in relation to Mr Lear, but It does not hurt to be sure of the direction I'm wanting to go, before embarking in a numb state of personal gratification.

I'm obviously only speaking for myself here though.

[edit on 18-5-2007 by Xeros]

Originally posted by VType
So yfxxx what exactly is space and explain to me exactly how it works.
You cant can you however you can ramble off lots of predetermined to be factual info that explains in nice round numbers how everything works?

Huh? This is apparently addressed directly to me, so I feel obliged to answer. But can anybody explain what VType actually wanted to say? Am I supposed to "explain how space works"?? If so, I don't understand what this is supposed to mean.

(...) and the stench of self imposed superiority by another few just smells so bad its hardly tollerable. However both sides do deserve a say I just wish it could be less inflamitory and slanderous.

Less inflammatory and slanderous like your immediately preceding statement? Well, I'm all with you on that !

Regards
yf

Originally posted by VType
However both sides do deserve a say I just wish it could be less inflamitory and slanderous.

Please show me where people have made inflamitory or slanderous statements towards Mr. Lear? The only person I see on here attacking other people without merit IS YOU!

Oh well Carry on ladies.

Since your new, I'll ingore your hypocracy, but just so you know...I doubt the mods will be so kind.

Please Yfxxx you are the Resident Moon,Rocket,Space Know It All arent you? You sure seem to think that way too me and I figured you could be the one to explain exactly what is space and how it works. Hell with your pretensously pompus responsences Im surprised you are even talking too us less thans. Geez.
And Xeros yes this is a flame thread and maybe not intended but John as well as anyone associated or even listening too John is essentially being attacked for their views or ideas in this thread. Sure I went to Uof M and have a degree as well yet I dont feel it gives me superiority over other compitently minded folks. If I think someones wrong I dont stoop to insinuations,freudian slips(lol),and slander. And as far as the ladies comment well I apologize but the amount of Bitching over John's ideas is staggering. But I digress.
And yes Denying ignorance is key however new ideas or pushed parameters is Not ignorance by any any means.
Again I retract the Ladies comment and I will not argue this matter anymore as I believe you are All of value Equally whether in agreeance or Not.

Originally posted by kleverone

Originally posted by VType
However both sides do deserve a say I just wish it could be less inflamitory and slanderous.

Please show me where people have made inflamitory or slanderous statements towards Mr. Lear? The only person I see on here attacking other people without merit IS YOU!

Oh well Carry on ladies.

Since your new, I'll ingore your hypocracy, but just so you know...I doubt the mods will be so kind.

Look who is calling who a Newbie. Lol.
Any who your Merit is no more valid than mine so what.
Anyways see my last post. And Enjoy.

Originally posted by johnlear
Its your choice here and I am not going to try and influence you:

(1) I believe that the moon is artificially constructed
(2) My opinion is that the moon is artificially constructed
(3) My opinion that the moon is artificially constructed is based on these facts:
a. rings like bell
b. surface cannot be easily penetrated with drills

And here is why that is,

On Earth, vibrations from quakes usually die away in only half a minute. The reason has to do with chemical weathering, Neal explains: "Water weakens stone, expanding the structure of different minerals. When energy propagates across such a compressible structure, it acts like a foam sponge—it deadens the vibrations." Even the biggest earthquakes stop shaking in less than 2 minutes. The moon, however, is dry, cool and mostly rigid, like a chunk of stone or iron. So moonquakes set it vibrating like a tuning fork. Even if a moonquake isn't intense, "it just keeps going and going," Neal says. And for a lunar habitat, that persistence could be more significant than a moonquake's magnitude.

c. surface gravity is at least 64% that of earths so it does not conform to stated laws that gravity is proportional to mass and that gravity inversely proportional to the square root of the radius.

You are not taking into account the effects of the gravity from the earth and the tides, the moon is not working with just it own gravity from its own mass, its dealing with that of the earth and the tides(which effect the gravity on the moon)

d. is in rotational lock with the earth

Well I thought you said it was a spaceship and wasn't locked in orbit, but could be towed anywhere?

e. has not been orbiting the earth as long as the earth has been in exitence

Some scientist theorize that the moon is a chuck of the earth that was broken off after a large collision with a large object.

rock that have been found to be considerably older than either the moon or the earth

Have you ever heard of a meteor?

I'm impressed! You are speaking for the majority of all the people that read this thread? You can be darn sure that I am with you on this one!

You can believe that I'm with him as well, although I would venture to guess, my response is slightly less vindictive and a little more gunuine than yours.


edit- chuck is not spelled chuch

[edit on 18-5-2007 by kleverone]

Originally posted by VType
Please Yfxxx you are the Resident Moon,Rocket,Space Know It All arent you?

No, I'm certainly not a "know-it-all" on any subject.

You sure seem to think that way too me and I figured you could be the one to explain exactly what is space and how it works.

I still don't get what you actually want, sorry. Space doesn't "work", it's just there. If you want a sort of scientific "Theory of Everything", then I'm sorry, because there is none that I know of (let alone one that can be explained in a few paragraphs ). If you want to know "mainstream" science's stance on a particular question, feel free to ask, and I may or (more likely) may not be able to help. However, I somehow suspect that this is not what you want .

Regards
yf

Originally posted by VType
Look who is calling who a Newbie. Lol.

I'm referring to ATS ettiquete and behavior You certainly act new.

Any who your Merit is no more valid than mine so what.

Those stars next to my name might disagree with you.

Anyways see my last post. And Enjoy.

I did, hence this response,

I particularly love the way you dodged all the others points brought up by the previous three posters and just chose to point out that you have been on here longer than me.

Keep it true to your character have a nice one.

Originally posted by VType
Sure I went to Uof M and have a degree as well yet I dont feel it gives me superiority over other compitently minded folks.

You might qualify for a refund.

And having said that, I'd sure like to concentrate on the math, personally. John and yfxxx are having a most entertaining back-and-forth, and if we can keep the "leave my buddy alone" stuff out of it, this may actually be a thread where a consensus could concievably be reached.

I can dream.

[Edit to add] Oh yeah, and pleeeease let's not play the "star card". That's such a new thing, let's try it for a couple of weeks before we turn it into a cudgel, mmmkay?

[edit on 5/18/2007 by yeahright]