Is John Lear Spreading Disinfo?

Originally posted by zorgon

Are we ever in trouble then...

What's the alternative then? Try to refrain from the inflammatory rhetoric and stick to an objective viewpoint. How about it?

I made this thread more as a question (toungue firmly in cheek) to raise the posibility of perhaps these (once) government associated people, with a nice little pension I'm sure, are taking us all for a merry little ride into fantasy land.
I have no evidence, but I was hoping it would be a bit of an interesting idea to put forth and explore.
Or maybe there are really Aliens and stuff, but for someone like John and his flying credentials to say these things ( which we all know are bizarre sounding) seems a little... well I don't know... I don't want a massive flame war, as this was never meant as a strictly serious debate anyway. Entertaining none the less.

[edit on 9-5-2007 by Xeros]

Originally posted by MrPenny
No zorgon, your source does not establish that position as an official UN policy.

Why thank you for those nice words, Mr Penny and you seem to be one of the more educated skeptics in here...

But I do believe I added the fact that I need to write to the UN to get more information on that... I will check I know I did in one thread...

Edit to add..

Oopsy It didn't paste the whole quote my bad... it was in the moon thread..

Originally posted by zorgon
I think this calls for a letter to the UN to get a copy of the meeting transcripts. As far as I know those are public domain... In either case I will be watching this and see where I can follow up...

[edit on 9-5-2007 by zorgon]

I posted this in response to a question regarding secret Apollo missions in the Moon Thread, but I think its relevant in here as well...

Originally posted by pippadee
Just curious. Where would one launch a 360' fire cracker weighing 3000 tons other than Cape Canaveral ? This is a monster of a rocket. I suppose the Soviets may have had the facilities and been able to keep it suppressed from prying eyes.

Antarctica comes to mind... but thats where the anti gravity ships are leaving from

How about this spot?

The Space Test Program (STP) is a part the Air Force Space and Missile Systems Center, Space and Missile Test and Evaluation Directorate located at Kirtland AFB in Albuquerque, New Mexico. The DoD Space Test Program was created in May 1965 as a multi-user space program whose role is to be the primary provider of spaceflight for the entire Department of Defensespace research community (this role was revalidated in a Nov 1995 memo from the Secretary of Defense). The Air Force is the executive agent for this DoD program. The primary objective of STP is to fly the maximum number of DoD space research experiments possible consistent with priority, opportunity and available funding. From the first launch in Jun 1967 to Jun 1997 over 400 experiments have been flown on over 120 missions using dedicated free-flyers, the space shuttle or piggyback payload opportunities.

SOURCE

ummm whats a "free-flyer"?

Read all about the Space Command here... they are bigger than you think

www.landoflegends.us...
www.landoflegends.us...

Someone also mentioned living near Vandenberg and they never saw any big rockets like the Saturn 5... funny about living close to something... I live near Nellis AFB and weird stuff flies out of there all the time... but after awhile you don't even pay attention anymore...

Have a look at this...

Astronomy Picture of the Day
2005 October 27

The Last Titan
Credit : Courtesy 30th Space Wing, Vandenberg Air Force Base

Explanation: On October 19th,(2005), a rocket blasted off from Vandengberg Air Force Base - the last Titan rocket. Carrying a payload for the US National Reconnaissance Office, the successful Titan IV B launch brings to a close the Titan program whose first launch was in 1959. Originally designed as an intercontinental ballistic missle, the Titan rocket ultimately evolved into a heavy lift workhorse, launching defense, commercial, and scientific payloads to Earth orbit and beyond. In fact, many historic space explorations began with Titan launches, including manned Gemini missions, the Viking missions to Mars, the Voyager tours of the outer solar system, and the Cassini spacecraft now orbiting Saturn. Cassini's probe Huygens accomplished the most distant landing on another world, while Voyager 1 is now humanity's most distant spacecraft.



SOURCE

Now have a look at this sketch... Saturn V series...

Have a look at #1 on the right... the Apollo rocket... and then look at #6 and compare it to the last Titan launch above...

Go ahead convince me I am crazy

Originally posted by zorgon
Have a look at #1 on the right... the Apollo rocket... and then look at #6 and compare it to the last Titan launch above...

Well, both are multistage liquid-fueled rockets, fitted with two large solid-propellant boosters. So?

By the way, the Titan IVB was about 60m high, and Saturn 5 was about 110m high. So if such an "advanced Saturn 5 with boosters" were launched, nobody who knows his rockets would have confused it with a Titan IV.

Regards
yf


[edit on 10.5.2007 by yfxxx]

Originally posted by zorgonNow have a look at this sketch... Saturn V series...

Have a look at #1 on the right... the Apollo rocket... and then look at #6 and compare it to the last Titan launch above...

Go ahead convince me I am crazy

I won't tell you you're crazy but you're grasping a bit. The Titan IV was similar in configuation to the proposed Saturn Heavy lift vehicle, however its size and payload capacity is somewhat wanting when compared to Saturn.

The Titan IV's overall length was 204 ft. The Saturn... approx 360 ft.

Here's an approximate comparison..



Not quite the same.

Originally posted by darkbluesky

I won't tell you you're crazy but you're grasping a bit. The Titan IV was similar in configuation to the proposed Saturn Heavy lift vehicle, however its size and payload capacity is somewhat wanting when compared to Saturn. Not quite the same.

No, not quite the same. But still big enough to launch 5 or 10 astronauts, maybe more, into orbit to rendezvous with one of the secret space stations that McKinnon found.

With what launch system, and from which launch facility were the components of the seceret space stations launched?

Zorgon, about 13 years ago I was working in Orlando, Florida and I would get up bright and early and go jogging every morning. During a little past sunrise a Shuttle mission was launched by a Saturn rocket as always. I do not remember which Shuttle or the purpose of the mission at that time. I am guessing I was probably about 35 airline miles from the launch.

Everything went flawless but the strangest thing happened as the rocket and Shuttle got up into the air, just a guess 10 to 15 miles in altitude and these straight beams like you are similarly showing came down to the Earth like a rainbow. These were multiple wide intense white light beams in front of me as I am jogging. I stop in disbelief and I am thinking no body will believe this story. I am figuring maybe the rocket and Shuttle had punched a hole in our atmosphere who knows. The Sun was very low in the horizon because of it being sunrise of course. This was being emmitted or reflected off the rocket but it was like a beam that lasted for approx 30 seconds. True story Rik Riley



[edit on 10-5-2007 by rikriley]

Originally posted by rikriley
Zorgon, about 13 years ago I was working in Orlando, Florida and I would get up bright and early and go jogging every morning. During a little past sunrise a Shuttle mission was launched by a Saturn rocket as always.

A Shuttle mission ... launched by a Saturn ... as always!

Now what did you smoke during your morning jogs ?!?

Regards
yf


[edit on 10.5.2007 by yfxxx]

Originally posted by darkbluesky

With what launch system, and from which launch facility were the components of the seceret space stations launched?

I don't know. Maybe the black one McKinnon saw was one of them. Using the shuttle as a decoy for public attention there is no telling what went up from Vandenberg, White Sands or other places.

yfxxx, I do not smoke tobacco or weed, but those Saturn rocket engines were sure smokin. LOL High strangeness in Orlando. Rik Riley

Originally posted by rikriley
yfxxx, I do not smoke tobacco or weed, but those Saturn rocket engines were sure smokin. LOL High strangeness in Orlando. Rik Riley

There were no "Saturn" rockets flying 13 years ago! And when you say "Shuttle", I assume you mean this vehicle. If so, you know why I assume that hallucinogens are involved if you see any "Saturn rockets" in this .

Regards
yf

Originally posted by johnlear
Using the shuttle as a decoy for public attention there is no telling what went up from Vandenberg, White Sands or other places.

You can't do "secret" space launches from Vandenberg! Do you have any idea from how far away a space launch can be seen? So you can't "hide" the launch itself and the type of the launch vehicle.

You can hide the payload of course. I leave it as an exercise for the reader to
- calculate the necessary number of launches of Titan-class rockets to assemble a "secret" space station of a size compatible with the conspiracy theory of your choice, and
- enumerate enough known launches with classified or unconfirmed payloads to account for this calculated number.
Extra points for explaining why said secret space station isn't ever seen and reported by amateur (and professional) sky watchers (but penalties for saying things like "Harry Potter put a cloaking charm on the station" or "The memory of anyone seeing the station is immediately zapped by the Men In Black").

Regards
yf

Originally posted by yfxxx

calculate the necessary number of launches of Titan-class rockets to assemble a "secret" space station of a size compatible with the conspiracy theory of your choice, and
- enumerate enough known launches with classified or unconfirmed payloads to account for this calculated number.

The space station was probably not built with parts launched at Vandenberg. I suspect that only crews were launched from there.

Extra points for explaining why said secret space station isn't ever seen and reported by amateur (and professional) sky watchers (but penalties for saying things like "Harry Potter put a cloaking charm on the station" or "The memory of anyone seeing the station is immediately zapped by the Men In Black").

Extra points for you if you can tell me what Gary McKinnon had to say about the subject. Thanks.

Originally posted by johnlear
The space station was probably not built with parts launched at Vandenberg. I suspect that only crews were launched from there.

And from where was the space station (or its sections) launched? What I said about Vandenberg (that you can see launches form really far away) is true for other launch facilities as well.

Extra points for you if you can tell me what Gary McKinnon had to say about the subject.

Cool ... one crackpot calling another for support?

Anyway, I googled to find a quote from McKinnon about a space station, and found this gem:

"The Americans have a secret spaceship?" I ask.

"That's what this trickle of evidence has led me to believe."

"Some kind of other Mir that nobody knows about?"

"I guess so," says Gary.

"What were the ship names?"

"I can't remember," says Gary. "I was smoking a lot of dope at the time. Not good for the intellect."

Source

I can fully agree to McKinnon's last statement in this snippet . He obviously had way too much of this dope! Anyway, he's just another weirdo, who ****ed up his life and wants to make it look better than it is. He has no evidence whatsoever that he saw as much as a single byte of "interesting" data.

Regards
yf

The very fact that the US government wants to put Gary McKinnon away in a federal prison for basically the rest of his life leads one to believe that he did indeed reveal awareness that they wanted to keep secret from the general public.

I mean, how can his crime be so horrific if nothing was gained from it happening?

McKinnon's drug use during the hacker break-ins into U.S. government computers lessens his credibility but not completely. It wasn't like he was on '___' or heroin and totally blown out of his mind. He was just smoking some wacky weed at the time.

I am sure that a great many people would be smoking something or having some stiff drinks if they were in a similar situation and uncovering highly classified material illegally.



It's only human nature.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
The very fact that the US government wants to put Gary McKinnon away in a federal prison for basically the rest of his life leads one to believe that he did indeed reveal awareness that they wanted to keep secret from the general public.

Or maybe they wish to make an example of McKinnon so other hackers who might think about hacking into classified D.O.D servers will think twice about doing it?

I mean, how can his crime be so horrific if nothing was gained from it happening?

How can hacking into US Government servers be horrific? Well maybe not horrific, but certainly potentialy problematic for US security, which on second thought.....I guess, could be horrific.

Rocket scientist I am not and I stand corrected I got it mixed up with the Apollo mission Saturn rocket. Yes in fact you are correct the space shuttles use (STS) Space Transportation System with reuseable booster tanks. This is the rocket and boosters I remember seeing launch the Space Shuttle. You mention hallucinogens are you an expert on these type of drugs I have heard they open certain channels to the human brain. If you would please tell me more about your hallucinogens you are talking about. Rik Riley


[edit on 11-5-2007 by rikriley]

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
The very fact that the US government wants to put Gary McKinnon away in a federal prison for basically the rest of his life leads one to believe that he did indeed reveal awareness that they wanted to keep secret from the general public.

Originally posted by darkbluesky
Or maybe they wish to make an example of McKinnon so other hackers who might think about hacking into classified D.O.D servers will think twice about doing it?

Many have gone to prison for committing similar crimes and those stories have not had as much publicity.

Like the well-known story of the security officer at the infamous Dulce facility who went public with testimony that he saw aliens while working there. Last I heard he was still in a federal prison and refuses to discuss the matter.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
I mean, how can his crime be so horrific if nothing was gained from it happening?

Originally posted by darkbluesky
How can hacking into US Government servers be horrific? Well maybe not horrific, but certainly potentialy problematic for US security, which on second thought.....I guess, could be horrific.

Precisely.

Gary McKinnon uncovered that there is a fleet of U.S. ships in space, probably with gravity wave propulsion systems. Which confirms what many ufologists and governmental insiders have known for years: that NASA is just a front.

Which also confirms what Ben Rich, former CEO of Lockheed Aircraft, said to Jan C. Harzan (a MUFON director), before he died:

That the U.S. military has interstellar flight capability and what a shame it is that this knowledge is being kept from the public.

[edit on 11-5-2007 by Paul_Richard]