Is John Lear Spreading Disinfo?

Originally posted by zorgon
The problems with main stream science are:

1) put 3 scientists into a room and you will have 4 theories...

I'll take 4 theories over 1 opinion anyday of the week.

2) As soon as one scientists discovers a radical principle, there will be 50 that try to shoot it down

Principles, being based on some form of proof or theory, not based on opinions. If a scientist were to present a theory with the same evidence that Mr. Lear presents than I would hope to see 50,000 scientist try to shoot it down.

3) scientific truth only lasts as long as the next discovery...

Truth being the optimal word here.

Mainstream science is about as stable as the San Andreas fault

If thats the case than John's theories are sitting on a Jello-mold

Once again John, no offense. My heart and body wants to believe but my mind....my mind keeps telling me nooooooooo! j/k




[edit on 6-5-2007 by kleverone]

Originally posted by yfxxx

So, if it makes you happy, you can think of me as a closed-minded, arrogant and idiotic self-proclaimed "scientist", who doesn't know **** about his science and therefore has to resort to "name calling and ridicule".

Let's put that statement on hold for now.

I couldn't care less

.

Your posts show otherwise.

And for the record: The failure of you (or anyone else) to actually show where my arguments are wrong is noted

!

Your most recent argument is that the neutral point is 38,000 miles. According to the Bullialdus/Newton inverse-square law that would make the gravity on the moon .55 that of earth or well over half of earths gravity. I am not saying that is wrong but I am saying that is substantially more than your original argument that the gravity on the moon is 1/6th that of earth and it is closer to my estimate of .64 that of earths. Thanks.

Originally posted by kleveroneMy heart and body wants to believe but my mind....my mind keeps telling me nooooooooo!

I hear that a lot in here at ATS "I want to believe... but..." Yet those that say this work hardest to knock down any possible evidence or presentation...

You avatar say you play devil's advocate... okay so how much of you believes in anything that is going on "out there"?

BTW that avatar is scaring little children

Originally posted by zorgon
The problems with main stream science are:

1) put 3 scientists into a room and you will have 4 theories...
2) As soon as one scientists discovers a radical principle, there will be 50 that try to shoot it down
3) scientific truth only lasts as long as the next discovery...

Odd sometimes, how opinions are shaped.

I think you're actually listing three strengths of science.

The problem with the 50 that try to shoot it down is that they will dismiss theories that are as viable as current dogma. You can make an arguement against current physics, too. The ignoring of this is what frustrates me the most. To say "That is impossible!", relying on admittedly faulty logic (Quantum Physics and GR, both) is overly stating the validity of said faulty model.

There are two possibilities: right and wrong. There is only 1 right, everything else is wrong. Simple enough, right? Using this concept one can reasonably state that, while physicists would like to label things as laws, their faulty logic lends credence to the supposition that it is nonsense to be so sure, possibly ego, and that this is what drives many of us from the sciences.

Funny thing about that, as well, is that the government and educational institutions will, on one hand, lament the failure of America to "keep up" with the rest of the world. On the other hand, they will beat down any novice in the post graduate studies and generally do all that can be done to discourage free thought. Thoughts that are expressed must be strictly reviewed before presentation, or risk "losing all credibility" for daring to posit something that is outside the box.

It seems to me that the failure to realize that dogma is only a possibility, not the only possibility, is the failure of America to entice newer crops of scientists. Moreso, we seem to keep certain individuals out of the sciences by allowing an "Alpha Male"mentality to pervade the culture in the uppermost echelons. Specialization and elitism are the rule.

This is what makes most people that would otherwise be amenable to hearing popular science models less likely to listen: many seem to have become disillusioned and are seeking elsewhere.

the ironic thing is that this is being done in other countries outside the west. The question "What If" is the subject on the agenda of many experiments.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
This is what makes most people that would otherwise be amenable to hearing popular science models less likely to listen: many seem to have become disillusioned and are seeking elsewhere.

Nicely said Add to that the fact that if you had chemistry equipment in your garage the first thought of any policeman passing by is you must be making Meth or Bombs so they have a reason to bust your door down... In many states it is now illegal to even own such equipment and certain chemicals...

Sulfur is one thats on the hit list... an ingredient used in most simple experiments for beginners... Can't let anyone have that stuff, you might make illegal fireworks! or blow up something...

Bunsen burners in high school? No way... little Johnny might burn himself and Mommy will sue the school

You think we are behind now, give it another 10 years...

Of course sulfur is used in these new hydrogen fuel cells... Nah that wouldn't be the reason, I'm sure...

Chemistry in Jeopardy in the USA

the ironic thing is that this is being done in other countries outside the west. The question "What If" is the subject on the agenda of many experiments.

It seems to me, one of the disillusioned, that scientists in the west have a need to be correct, no matter the truth... but then thats just MY impression , even if I have MANY news reports that back up this opinion

Originally posted by zorgon
I hear that a lot in here at ATS "I want to believe... but..." Yet those that say this work hardest to knock down any possible evidence or presentation...

Are we trying to knock it down or scrutinize the evidence? You will have to forgive me if I don't takes John's opinions as fact. And I would think that you would appreciate someone who challenges ideas. Where would society be if everyone just agreed with whatever anyone else said without question?

I thought the point here was to Deny Ignorance?

You avatar say you play devil's advocate... okay so how much of you believes in anything that is going on "out there"?

I believe very much that something is going on out there, just not how John describes it.

BTW that avatar is scaring little children

mission accomplished

[edit on 7-5-2007 by kleverone]

Originally posted by kleverone
Are we trying to knock it down or scrutinize the evidence?

"Scrutinizing" would involve actual counter research and facts to refute the claims..."knocking it down" is what most do here with ridicule, scorn and name calling... There IS a difference

You will have to forgive me if I don't takes John's opinions as fact.

Nothing to forgive... most don't take his opinions as fact, or even a possibility from what I have seen, yet you all keep coming back... so I have to ask myself... what is it about John that strikes such a nerve? Whenever someone creates that much controversy, that person is well worth listening to

And I would think that you would appreciate someone who challenges ideas.

Oh I do... and many is the time a skeptic has led me to more data. Its merely a question of HOW the challenge is presented.

Where would society be if everyone just agreed with whatever anyone else said without question?

In Heaven! Well at least the Christian Version

I thought the point here was to Deny Ignorance?

I believe very much that something is going on out there, just not how John describes it.

Well good then perhaps one day you will open a thread and share some of your insights and theories about what is going on out there. I would be interested...

Is John Lear spreading disinformation? No. John Lear appears to be well grounded in reality and sincere. I admire his courage to speak his mind to anyone willing to listen.

I've always admired lears calmness in the face of attack
It reminds me of myself.

Anyway, I sit totally on the fence on some of the things he says and pass no judgement. No harm done.
Stranger things have come true.

John have you ever explained why it is that you so firmly believe in the soul catcher?

It seems to me, one of the disillusioned, that scientists in the west have a need to be correct, no matter the truth... but then thats just MY impression , even if I have MANY news reports that back up this opinion

That is an interesting observation. One could say that this is a developing weakness in our nation in general.

I was watching the local school board meeting, and it appeared to me that the only goal was for each of the three PhD's on the board to show how smart they are with far flung educational models that our teachers have little hope of executing proficiently. I sat there thinking to myself "How will our "country" teachers ever grasp this?".

I combat the urge to move beyond simplicity in design of process in my job. Smart people are great. But "smart" doesn't mean "educated", as educated people are just as prone to wrongfully consider themselves right. My high school biology teacher called them "educated idiots", and usually referred to professors.

Here is an interesting little bit of news.. I don't know if there is a thread about it yet, but if not go ahead and run with it...

Proposed U.N. Decade Of Contact Would Establish Diplomatic Relations With E.T.s

UNITED NATIONS, N.Y. - For the first time in almost 28 years, the United Nations General Assembly may be debating the issue of establishing diplomatic relations with advanced Extraterrestrial Civilizations that may now be visiting Earth.

On December 16, 2005, a Resolution to establish a United Nations Decade of Contact was formally transmitted to the incoming President of the General Assembly, H.E. Jan Eliasson of Sweden by a group of Non-Governmental Organizations, including the U.S.-based Disclosure Project, the Campaign for Cooperation in Space, and the Toronto Exopolitics Symposium.

SOURCE


So the UN thinks that there are Aliens already here on Earth and its time to establish formal relations...

Talk about disclosure... First the French release their UFO cases and then the Brits... now this....

Originally posted by zorgon

So the UN thinks that there are Aliens already here on Earth and its time to establish formal relations...

No zorgon, your source does not establish that position as an official UN policy. Please don't stretch your sources in order to fit your idea of the facts. I think you happen to be one of the more down to earth "lunatics" around here, with a refreshing ability to objectively evaluate sources without arriving at premature conclusions.

Don't let the fancy diplomatic language in the source fool ya'. That is not an official stance on the existence of aliens residing on Earth.

[edit on 9-5-2007 by MrPenny]

Originally posted by T0by
John have you ever explained why it is that you so firmly believe in the soul catcher?

I addressed that inquiry at length earlier in this thread and he completely dodged the question.

What's the big deal John?

You espouse that there is an alien civilization on the Moon, with Terran bases there as well as on Mars, and also that there is a strong possibility that the Moon is actually a large space station. Why not finally put the soul catcher-lunar tower issue to rest?

I doubt that your answer would be any more controversial than what you have already posted in here.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by T0by
John have you ever explained why it is that you so firmly believe in the soul catcher?

I addressed that inquiry at length earlier in this thread and he completely dodged the question.

What's the big deal John?

You espouse that there is an alien civilization on the Moon, with Terran bases there as well as on Mars, and also that there is a strong possibility that the Moon is actually a large space station. Why not finally put the soul catcher-lunar tower issue to rest?

Not to speak for Mr. Lear but he's answered this around here somewhere. If memory serves, he's not tied to this structure being a "soul collector" heart and soul, if you will. He believes the structure is there based on satellite images. He believes it's a "soul catcher" because a remote-viewer (not sure who or when) was tasked with following a person's soul once they had died. The 'viewer,' following the 'soul,' reports he was heading in the moon's direction before being told to "turn away" or somethig to that affect.


How'd I do Mr. Lear?

Originally posted by Rren

How'd I do Mr. Lear?

Not bad... And he has mentioned several times that the topic of the "soul catcher" is covered extesively in several LONG threads here at ATS. It is easy enough to do a search and find them.

Now ever hear of Ingo Swann? I have a copy of his book "Penetration" Its quite an interesting read...

I had it posted but got some mail to remove it. I am waiting a response from Ingo on the status of this pdf as the person who called for removal appears to be one of his biggest detractors.

Ingo Swann was involved with the remote viewing project called "Project Stargate" which ran officially from 1969 to 1995 when the program was absorbed into other agencies... It was run mainly by the CIA and I also have a copy that has been declassified of the CIA remote viewing manual...

So here we have your tax dollars being spent on a program that trains people to see what John is talking about... with an accuracy thats referred to as an "8 martini result"

Interestingly, it was the US government that first used the term "Stargate" not the TV show

You can visit Ingo's website, though he is not available for questions. Apparently he is very busy remote viewing the future of our race...

www.biomindsuperpowers.com...

The pdf files are available to serious seekers if you u2u me

Everything is not as it seems

[edit on 9-5-2007 by zorgon]

Threads on the Soul Catcher...

Here is one trying to beat the soul catcher with cryogenics...
www.abovetopsecret.com...




"I was stunned. Gunther had described, in great detail, a ancient structure which was built by extraterrestrials that "shot" souls to earth and "caught" them after their trip to earth was finished. I was amazed that John knew about it."
rumormillnews.com...
Discussed here;
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Question for John Lear and Sleeper;
www.abovetopsecret.com...

John Lear's theory regarding the "Soul Collector" ;
www.abovetopsecret.com...

And here is a recent list of threads that John is active in...or at least follows..
www.landoflegends.us...

Only problem is... you will actually have to READ to get anything out of them, a skill that seems sorely lacking here at ATS

:shk:

[edit on 9-5-2007 by zorgon]

Originally posted by MrPenny
I think you're actually listing three strengths of science.

I see...

so when a radical idea is presented, and the august members of a peer group society ridicule it to the point that the presenter dies in poverty without being vindicated, only to be proven correct after he is dead...

This is a "strength" in science?

When two opposing researchers publish documents with opposing views using the same data sets and resort to calling each other names and even getting the courts involved because "I'm right and your an imbecile.." mentality seems to rule American science these days...

This is a "strength"?

When in the face of "scientists" stating emphatically that man cannot fly, a couple bicycle mechanics go ahead and do it anyway because they don't know that were not supposed to be able to fly...

This is a "strength"?

Are we ever in trouble then...

:shk:

Nikola Tesla had many crazy ideas.... only know is main stream "science" catching on... Had we listened to him back then, mankind would have been a lot better off by now... At least we got some benefits electricity in your home, ignition coil in every car, and even radio, which he finally got credit for after Marconi "stole" it... Imagine if we had taken to heart his other ideas..

The military listened... but thats another story...

[edit on 9-5-2007 by zorgon]

On the soul collector topic...

Originally posted by Rren
Not to speak for Mr. Lear but he's answered this around here somewhere. If memory serves, he's not tied to this structure being a "soul collector" heart and soul, if you will. He believes the structure is there based on satellite images. He believes it's a "soul catcher" because a remote-viewer (not sure who or when) was tasked with following a person's soul once they had died. The 'viewer,' following the 'soul,' reports he was heading in the moon's direction before being told to "turn away" or somethig to that affect.

This is what John Lear actually stated about this earlier in this thread:

Originally posted by johnlear
...I am firmly convinced that the 6 mile high tower that sits in the Sinus Medii, very near Mosting A transmits and receives souls to and from earth. Now whether or not ALL souls get transmitted or sent from there I don't know. But some of them do.

If true, this has deep spiritual and metaphysical implications.

In my experience, remote viewing is really just a form of channeling. The high-tech words surrounding the process notwithstanding. Which is why traditionally psychic and paranormal abilities have been referred to as Gifts of the Spirit and not Gifts of the Brain.

Mystics, channelers, mediums, and yes...remote viewers too...can and are often deceived by the people on the Other Side that give them that awareness.

John Lear has defined WHAT the soul tower is and WHERE it is located.

The question posed before and now is WHY he believes it to be so.



[edit on 9-5-2007 by Paul_Richard]

If i believed everything so firmly, on sources such as someone remote viewing something like that, i'd be a pretty messed up person right now.

I dont think this would be the only reason John believes in it so strongly, as he has alot of other information to go with it. The remote viewer was told to just stay away that's all.